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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Frozen shoulder/MRI? What causes this

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Author Topic: Frozen shoulder/MRI? What causes this
peacemama
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Last spring, I lost my ability to externally rotate my hip. I teach yoga, so it got to be a problem.

First,serious laxity in my hip joint
SEcond, pain all the time, even in sleep
Third, loss of most mobility.

Now, with lots of physical therapy, I have no pain anymore and about 40% of my mobility back.

But, the same thing is happening with my bicep tendon/and deltoid.

First, not so serious laxity.
Second, pain all the time, especially after I move it (not while I move it)
Third, loss of about 80% of my mobility.

So, what the HECK is going on? What causes this and how do I stop it? My PT is very concerned that the therapy is not helping at all. It is going the wrong direction, my mobility decreasing every few days.

Is this just Lyme disease doing what it wants? This is my right shoulder, it was my right hip. Mirror image. My PT even used the words, "scared for you". "It is NOT responding to treatment."

I see a chiro that works with my LLMD. . a good shoulder guy. . tomorrow. Then, I see the Sports med doc on the 19th.

What kind of dangers does an MRI present for someone with Lyme?

[ 07-07-2010, 08:23 PM: Message edited by: peacemama ]

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jklynd
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It should present less danger than multiple X-rays (over time),and should show if you have soft tissue damage-meaning perhaps a rotator cuff tear.

In my case, a persistent feeling of having someone's clenched fist buried in my right armpit at bedtime was enough to get me convinced to get one.

The results?--

A totally torn right cuff, with damage to the bicep muscle also. I had surgery the day after Easter, and still go in for physical therapy 3x week for about an hour session each... The original pain is long since gone....

The thing that makes me question,like yourself,is why the therapy seems to have you going "backwards",is this-perhaps you have sustained some damage to that area-

The MRI should give you a confirmation one way or the other. I would also skip the PT sessions until results are in- you may be doing yourself a disservice until you find out where you stand.

Joe

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Hi, Peacemama & Joe.
I had physical therapy, CTS, epicondylitis, tendonitis, bursitis, rotator cuff impingements, knee arthroscopy, hand surgeries, aquatherapy, more PT, chiropractors, accupuncture, occupational therapy, even (ARGH!) cortisone injections...

Too many surgeries, not enough abx.

Too much PT & ice, not enough abx.

Too many evaluations by ducks, not enough abx.

If you have Lyme disease, THIS IS LYME.

Avoid all non-urgent surgeries while treating LD & co's! Burrascano writes about this.

If you have Lyme, a sports medicine practitioner cannot get you well UNLESS he/she has been trained by ILADS, is current on the latest scientific treatments of Lyme & co's and is viewed as a Lyme-literate physician.

My knee was much better for ~2 yrs post-op. Now it's sometimes back to pre-surgery pain levels including surprising me by giving way now & then.

And my orthopaedic surgeons have GREAT reputations in the area. Among ducks and the brainwashed hoards of unknowing blood hosts...

I get great relief from Terry Naturally Curamin.

ymmv.

Best wishes,
Smile

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peacemama
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My LLMD is working with the sports medicine doc (who is lyme friendly and has dozens of lyme patients), but we all are curious as to what is happening and why. Scientifically speaking.

I'm not interested in having surgery. . my LLMD doesn't even want me to do an MRI unless both the chiro and the sports medicine guy think it is necessary. I've read articles that a frozen shoulder is lyme or bart. . but is there anything I can do to help make it shift?

And. . did it migrate up the body? I know. . .I'm asking for a psychic perspective on why these bugs do what they do. . but what DO they do? Do they destroy tissue? Do they just get into the nervous system and wreck havoc?

It's my nature to want to figure it out.

And, how do we get more Lyme Literate physicians if we aren't willing to work with Lyme friendly ones?

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Pinelady
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My frozen shoulders are being unfrozen with treatment.

I could not even pull my pants up for months---now I can raise my rt. arm and my left is getting there.

But it has taken over a year.

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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peacemama
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So. . the fact that it appeared almost 2 years into treatment shouldn't worry me?
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'Kete-tracker
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Each of My shoulders became partially locked/ limited in motion for 6 months apiece... in succession.
Just as one was back to 95% movement, the other shoulder screwed up. (grrr!)

The P.T. said he'd seen this more commonly in women in their 50s, but not guys in their late 40s (me at the time) and wondered had I "split [my] shoulder" recently? (I hadn't)
He said it'd take ~6 months to rejuvinate & free up. It did! And with only 1 PT visit... & daily stretching exercises.

I KNEW it had something to do with my recently tamed Lyme, but no-one seems to have good explanation *YET* of why this happened... just that it "bunched up" these "straps" of connective tissue that hold the arm bone into the shoulder socket.
Wierd. I'd never experienced this before... or since.

I'm back to 99% movement now in both shoulders, but that's taken Years.

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sutherngrl
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I had frozen shoulders in both at the same time. Could barely put on a shirt or pull up my pants. Very painful and physical therapy did not help.

After 1 year on antibiotics my shoulders got better. I have most of my range of motion back.

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Pinelady
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It is possible it has taken this long to hit them there.

I believe I had cysts on the bone as when I tried to move my arm it killed me and I could almost

pinpoint the contact as it felt like as I moved the muscle it would hit them with resulting crushing pain.

The MRI may give you a diagnosis?

--------------------
Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region
unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND
IgM neg pos
31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 +
DX:Neuroborreliosis

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peacemama
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I had a GREAT exam (the shoulder grinding test) with the chiro and he doesn't think I need to have my shoulder imaged.

he thinks it is just lyme doing its thing and, just like my hip, it will clear up with lyme treatment. . but maybe not anytime soon.

So, I continue PT, and do exercises and just keep it from freezing.

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peacemama
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I had a GREAT exam (the shoulder grinding test) with the chiro and he doesn't think I need to have my shoulder imaged.

he thinks it is just lyme doing its thing and, just like my hip, it will clear up with lyme treatment. . but maybe not anytime soon.

So, I continue PT, and do exercises and just keep it from freezing.

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Pippi
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I am interested to read this thread as I strongly suspected my frozen shoulder was Lyme
related.

I have had a partially frozen right shoulder since Dec 2008, about a month after I started treatment for Lyme.

I had an initial mild strain to my shoulder reaching for something, which quickly became much worse and never healed.

I assumed the Lyme infection had set into the damaged tissue.

I continued to exercise and stretch very carefully, but no physio.

Now after 18 months of antibiotics, my shoulder is finally improving, at the same time that I am starting to feel significantly better overall.

My symptoms are mostly neurological and the frozen shoulder is the only joint/connective tissue symptom I've experienced.

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fyi, in case you haven't heard:

THE most susceptible group for frozen shoulder is women in their forties who are natural redheads.

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quote:
Originally posted by peacemama:
I had a GREAT exam (the shoulder grinding test) with the chiro
[snip]
it will clear up with lyme treatment
[snip]
continue PT, and do exercises and just keep it from freezing.

Hooray! [woohoo]
I'm very happy for you.
Smile

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peacemama
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Remember to Smile. . are you kidding about that little factoid.

I am in my forties and I was a redhead as a child. I really, really, really miss handstands. I hope it eventually goes away.

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No joke. A well-respected ortho surgeon, then an acupuncturist whose red-haired wife got frozen shoulder both told me about it.

Should start a new thread, probably.

Did you know?

Natural redheads are more difficult to anesthesize.

Natural redheads experience more pain than others and require more pain meds to acheive relief.

Natural redheads are more prone to endometriosis.

In one book an author tried to deny redheads got more endo, stating that redheads were "only 10%" of those with endo. Well, redheads are just ~2% of the American population. If we assume half are female, that's 1%. So, if 1% of American females are diagnosed with 10% of all the endometriosis, that's significant!

Natural redheads are most susceptible to poison ivy.

The most susceptible are those with red hair and blue eyes, then red hair and green eyes,
then blonde hair w/ blue eyes,
next blonde hair w/ green eyes,
and so forth in a gradient culminating in those with black hair and brown eyes being the least prone to poison ivy irritation.

peacemama, if you do some research on redheads and pain management, you'll find lots of things that make you medically unique!

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massman
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Frozen shoulders seem like a computer task repeating itself over and over again.

Seems like a partial muscle contraction is stuck "in the loop."

IME as a massage therapist and chiro that massage and physical therapy and chiro work do not usually give quick results.

You may want to try a massage machine called a "thumper". It moves up and down quickly and creates a massage stroke called tapotement.
It is NOT something that just vibrates back and forth quickly.

The tapotement introduces another signal for the muscle to respond to. And encourages the muscle to let go and relax.

Google "thumper massager" to take a look. One site is for sales, other parts of the site explain.

A good number of massage therapists and chiros may have and use them, so you may want to call around your area and see if anyone does. I suggest trying it 4 or 5 times to see if it may help you
_______________________________________________
DISCLAIMER: I get nothing - money or fame - for making these recommendations. [Cool]

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drew
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Smile,

Sorry to pull this thread a bit off topic, but you said that you received a cortizone injection as well (you put an ARGH!) next to that. I've heard about issues with steriods and lyme.

Can someone elaborate on this a bit? I was bit by a tick in the summer of 2005, symptoms didn't seem to start until 2006ish (and have just gotten worse and worse until finally I was diagnosed earlier this year), but I had back surgury (on l4/l5) in November of 2005, which several weeks before I was given a cortizone shot. A few days after the cortizone shot my back got worse and nerve pain and drop foot became intollerable. I had surgury days later.

But, it just seems that the timing of that whole thing (cortizone shot into back surgury) fits as to when bad symptoms started to present themselves.

If someone can elaborate on the cortizone/steriod issue I'd appreciate it.

Thanks

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Dear drew,
I have to log off shortly, but saw you query. There are probably numerous threads on our problems with cortisone injections.

- hampers the immune system! Horrid for Lyme sufferers!
- masks problems rather than correcting root cause.
- Dr. J. Burrascano of ILDAS, the current world authority on effective Lyme treatment, warns about this on several pages in his 37-pg monograph (Oct 2008, 16th edition). I urge you to print out that document, put it in a 3-hole punch binder, and read, re-read, and highlight sections as you are able.

I'd known for YEARS that cortisone injections are only safe for small pets because their lifespan is too short for it to matter. I ended up in so much pain that by 2007 i fell for the lure of a pain fix (which didn't help much).

Gotta run now.
Best,
Smile

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j_liz
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I had tendonitis and with the pain did not move and so developed frozen shoulder. I was told the tendonitis was from Lyme by a natural health practitioner. (I was told my MRI was impressive, whatever that means.)

I could only afford PT once a week instead of the 3x's recommended, but I had a good PT. I did my exercises daily, she massaged me, did lymphatic drainage, and stretched me.

Currently, my LLMD has me going to her monthly for a lymphatic drainage. Two mos. ago she caught my other shoulder starting up, so back to the exercises.

I have had muscle spasms in my back, shoulders, and neck for yrs. It has to be the Lyme. My LLMD even lightly pushes on the shoulders to evaluate her patients. She says that patients can't help but carry their shoulders in a raised position. She told me this, because my PT kept telling me to relax them.

liz

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timaddie4
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Hello there,

I can only give my experiences with frozen shoulder on many fronts as not only do I have lyme I am also a physical therapist and have treated many with adhesive capsulitis.

The causation of frozen shoulder has been a mystery for a long time and a debatable topic, but I have noticed a significantly higher proportion of patients are women in their lates 30's through early 50's, often their dominant shoulder.

Many women whom I have treated are recently menopausal which has always prompted me to think a hormonal imbalance triggered the capsulitis.

Another common group I have treated are women post mastectomy, again hormone change plus trauma as well as immobilization.

What we have to remember is that frozen shoulder has much less to do with musculature and tendons and much more to do with the glenoid labrum which holds the upper arm bone(humerus) in the joint capsule(glenoid fossa).

In terms of treatment, EARLY movement and heat are the 2 most important things. A good PT or massage therapist who knows manual techniques, can perform gentle joint mobilizations and lymph drainage as well as teach you PROGRESSIVE stretchs will go the longest way to recovery.

While corticosteroid use is dismissive with lyme, if a very good ortho injects the joint capsule in appropriate areas within 7-14 days of pain onset, I have noticed very quick relief of symptoms. After 2 weeks the injection has very diminishing return.

Frozen shoulder is something that with time will heal itself, but the shoulder joint NEEDS MOVEMENT TO HEAL AND GET BLOOD FLOWING.

The associated muscle pain that comes with frozen shoulder is often referred from the joint capsule and is a result of guarding. Muscle tightness and trigger points need to be treated as well.

I hope this only helps, and is not meant to be the "be all, end all" on the topic, just what I have noticed as a practitioner.

Peacemama- good luck in your recovery.

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