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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Has Anyone Tried S. Buhner's Herbal Protocol?

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Author Topic: Has Anyone Tried S. Buhner's Herbal Protocol?
rajon
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Has anyone tried Stephan Harrod Bruhner's herbal lyme protocol?

His book Healing Lyme was recommended to me by someone in a Supplement/Herbs store.

Here are some Amazon Reviews .

There is a Google Support Group for it.

I got the info below from a post on Lymeforum.

Are the herbs and the approach familiar to anyone?

-- -- --

quote:
Buhner describes his core lyme protocol on page 76 of his book:

3 herbs are the most important as to the lyme war:

1. andrographis paniculata: 400 mg per capsule, 3-4 times daily for 8-12 months

this herb is perhaps the best primary herb to use in the treatment of lyme disease. it is antispirochetal, enhance imune function, protects heart muscle, is anti inflammatory (helping with arthritis symptoms), crosses the blood/brain barrier where it is active as both an anti spirochetal and calming agent, enhances liver functio and protects the liver, helping clear infection from the body.

Because andrographis has shown significant protective effects against inflammation immediated neurodegeneration in the brain, it is essential to use in Lyme disease. It easily crosses the bloodbrain barrier and accumulates in significant quantities in central nervous system tissues: brain spinal cord and cerebral spinal fluid.

specific indications
borrelia infection, with heart involvement, with arthritic inflammation, with low immune function, brain fog, confusion, neuroborroliosis. in general: any borrelia burgdorferi sensu lato infection.

2. Japanese knotweed of in latin: polygonum cuspidatum: 1-4 tablets 3-4 times daily 500 mg per capsule

Functions in lyme disease: a broadly systemic plant, japanese knotweed modulates and enhances immune function, is active against a number of gram negative and gram positive bacteria including leptospira and treponema denticola spirochetes, is anti inflammatory for both arthritic and bacterial inflammations, protects the body against endotoxin damage, helps reduce Herheimer reactions ansd is cardioprotector.
This plant has a very specific way of reducing arthritis because of the resveratrol, an important constituent of the plant.
This herb crosses the blood/brain border where it exerts actions ont he central nervous system: antimicrobal, antiinflammatory as protectants against oxidative and microbal damage ans as calming agent. the her specially protects the brain from inflammatory damage, microbial endotoxins and bacterial infections.
Knotweed enhances blood flow expecially to the eye, heart, skin, and joints. This makes it especially useful in lYme as it facilitates blood flow to the areas that are difficult to reach to kill the spirochetes. It is a drug and herb synergist, facilitating the movement of other herbs and drugs into these hard to reach places when taken with them. It is specific for lyme skin manifestations, especially in reduing or eliminating skin responses to lyme disease both the typical em rash in the US and that of acrodermatitis chronica atrophicans, which is common in European lyme disease. It si also specific for treating bartonella coinfections that can occur in Lyme disease.

specific indications in lyme disease: neuroborreliosis, bull's eye rash, acarodermatitis, chronica atrophicans, low immune functions, spirochete infection, lyme arthritis, endothelial damage from lyme and lyme coinfections, cardiac involvement, post lyme disease syndrome, bartonella coinfection.

3. cat;s claw (uncaria tomentosa) 500 mg, 3-4 capsules 3-4 x daily for 8-12 months

You know this one already Denise. Buhner says one should take the whole herb in stead of samento...

herb that can be added to the core protocol:

smilax (sarsaparilla) 425-500 mg, 1-4 capsules 3-4 times daily for 8-12 months

Smilax is a systemic her with a wide range of actions in the body, many of which are specific for lyme disease and its symptoms. specifically: it lessens herxheimer reactions from die off of spirochetes (and lyme coinfectious organisms) by its ability to bind endotoxins in the blood stream, it is antispirochetal, modulates immune response (lessening autoimmune reactions and stimulating specific immunity), enhances immune response to lyme spirochetes, is antiinflammatory for arthritic symptoms, a neuroprotector for brain function (its constituents cross the blood/brain barrier), enhances cognitive function, reduces skin responses to lyme disease (helpful in reducing and preventing symptoms of acrodermatitis chronica atrophicans, which is common in european lyme disease), enhances the actions of other herbs and drugs used in lyme treatment, lessens fatigue, gives pain relieve and protects and enhances liver function.

specific indications: borrelia infections, with skin involvement, with arthritic inflammation, with herxheimer reactions, with unresolved weakness, brain fog confusion. Neuroborreliosis. Generally: any borrelia burgdorferi sensu lato infection.

More specific herbal treatment is also layed out in "healing lyme" as regards to specific symptoms such as (in my case) and lyme coinfections, he refers to the three most important ones: Babesia, Ehrlichia and Bartonella:

1. general arthritic symptoms and pain relieve intervention: from this section I use devil's claw (harpagophytum Cumbens) (1000-2000 mg) 3-4 x daily

2. chronic fatigue: Eleutherooccus (Siberian ginseng) tincture: 2-3 teaspoons daily for 60 days

3. bartonella infection: boneset (eupatorium perfoliatum) tea 3-4 daily as well as red rood (ceanothus americanus) tincture (lymph spleen or liver inflammation: 30-90 drops 3-4 x daily

Where to get the herbs?

Many of these herbs you can get via (the cheapest option as well):

http://www.1stchineseherbs.com/lyme_disease.html

The dutch provider is: www.natuurapotheek.com
You could best order by mail, since once you start talking to them they ask you whether you are a doctor or not and since I am not and since the docters they recommend are still keen on prescribing penicilline I'd rather decide myself.
But if you order by mail, you have to be very specific as to in which quantities and form you want your herb (granulate, tincture or capsules for instance).



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MariaA
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It's a good start- it doesn't seem to get people with really severe coinfections (bartonella, babesia) into full remission, but I think people who start treating Lyme with the herbs seem to suffer less than those who just do antibiotics (you can do both at the same time). I used it.

below my post is my compendium of old Lymenet discussions about the Buhner Protocol. there's a lot of info there.

--------------------
Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!

Find me at Lymefriends, I post under the same name.
diet: http://lymefriends.ning.com/group/healthylowcarbrecipes
Homemade Probiotics thread
Herbal Links Thread

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canefan17
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I like Buhner's protocol.

His updated protocol is
1) Knotweed
2) Cats Claw
3) Eleutherococcus

4) Cryptolepsis (for babesia)
5) Red Root + Boneset (for Bart)

If you're going to do his protocol buy the herbs in bulk. MUCH stronger.


Buhner's protocol got me to 90-95% health
My brain fog was completely eliminated
It seemed to help immune system
Also sent Lyme into cysts
Was weak protocol against co-infections

Ultimately I found it very hard, towards the end, to take 80+ capsules per day.

It also didn't really help (or hurt) any gut issues.

I was on protocol for 8 months

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WhitneyS
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Ive been on it for about a month, and I'm herxing more than I've herxed with abx. I am still not able to get up to full dose yet.

Its important to read the book because he has very different recomendations depending on what your symptoms are. So the herbs listed above really should be combined with other herbs/ supplements depending on your symptoms.

Yes, buy the herbs in bulk, I get the loose powder, measure it and plop it in a glass of water and off I go!

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rajon
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80 pills a day. YIKES!

What is this protocol's average cost per month?

Thanks for the link, Maria A.

I guess new protocols are arriving all the time, Bruhner, Cowden, White, who will be next.

Makes a man wonder . . . and a little wary.

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Razzle
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Be very careful with the Japanese Knotweed...it caused me to herx so bad that I wound up unable to swallow anything and unable to eat anything or drink anything...after 5 days of no food/liquid, I wound up in the hospital severely dehydrated and in a lot of pain...and it has taken a LONG time to get to where I can eat again...still cannot swallow liquids over 2 1/2 years later...

So go slowly, start with very small amounts of the herbs and work your way up very slowly. I started too quickly and too high doses...

Yes, I agree that reading the book will enable someone to get more out of the protocol than just using the core 3 herbs. I had no problem with the Andrographis, but some find they have trouble and thus why the recommended switch to Eleuthero.

Be sure also that you have a Natropathic physician or Herbalist helping to guide you with this stuff - it can be very potent and there also can be drug interactions if you are combining it with abx/other meds. Many prescription meds are based on constituents found in plants (herbs)...

Be careful!!!

--------------------
-Razzle
Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs.

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rajon
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Thanks, Razzle, that kind of information is invaluable and may save someone a lot of trouble.
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Marz
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I've stopped the Japanese Knotwood, but am still doing the rest.

After reading that knotweed can cause gut problems I became suspicious that my high TSH/low thyroid might be due to having stomach aches and frequent bowel movements.

I think my synthroid went right through me.

I stopped the resveratrol/knotweed for about 8 days and stomach aches went away. Started again 3 days ago and they're back.

Does anyone know of a brand of resveratrol/knotweed that doesn't do this? I was taking Source Naturals recommended by my LLMD.

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Marz
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Razzle, how much were you taking and did you have a problem as you were working up to the full dose or only when you got to the full dose and on it for a while?
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365SunnyDays
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The Source Naturals gave me loose bowels. But the Green Dragon Botanicals brand (a Vermont herbery) was no problem.

I had no herx or other reactions at all after a full month on the full Japanese Knotweed protocol. I could never get very far on the Cat's Claw as it caused me to have major constipation.

Not sure if the combo would have worked better for me.

--------------------
We really know so little about the body and the microbiome.

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Razzle
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I was fine on the Cat's Claw, which was the first thing that I started with. Then, after a couple weeks of only the Cat's Claw, I started up the Andrographis at about half the dose recommended. Did fine on Cat's Claw + Andrographis for a few weeks...may have had a slight flare of joint pain but it passed relatively quickly after starting Nettles (recommended by Buhner, and I've used Nettles since without problems so I know the Nettles were not an issue with my gut). Then I started the Knotweed at 80mg of the Natural Factors brand (I think this is 1 capsule/day). A few days later, I switched to 100mg Paradise Herbs Resveratrol

One week after starting the 1 capsule/day Knotweed, I woke up unable to swallow anything, not even saliva.

So here's what I was on when I crashed:

600mg/day Andrographis (Progena)
1620mg/day Cat's Claw (Nature's Way)
100mg/day Resveratrol from Paradise Herbs (switched from Natural Factors brand because I wanted to get a gluten-free brand and Natural Factors isn't specifically known to be gluten-free)

All the other stuff I was taking then was stuff I'd been on for a long time without any problems.

--------------------
-Razzle
Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs.

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Marz
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Sunnydays, I've been constipated without the resveratrol, so I'll bet it's the cats claw as you said.

Razzle, maybe knotweed just is not good for some of us.

Wish I'd taken notes, but I wasn't able to tolderate andrographis but can't remember why.

I'm taking stephania as a substitute for the andrographis. Only 3 capsules 3 times a day of that and cats claw because that plus red root plus other supplements and doxy is just too much to swallow and too expensive.

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Razzle
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I'm convinced I have GI Lyme/Bart...my most distressing symptoms are very well-described by V.T. Sherr in her article:
http://thehumansideoflyme.net/viewarticle.php?aid=62

I think Japanese Knotweed is very hard on the gut lyme symptoms, and that may be why I had such a severe reaction to it.

Also, there is a possibility that something in the pills that was not labeled "got" me - as I'm sensitive, allergic or intolerant to a very long list of things (including some herbs).

I know of one other person who also could not tolerate the Japanese Knotweed - she herxed too severely from it also.

So like all other Lyme protocols, each person has to find what works best for them, and what works great for one would be potentially very damaging for another. Wish it wasn't this way, but it is...

--------------------
-Razzle
Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs.

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canefan17
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I don't recommend using the Knotweed/Resveratrol Razzle was taking.

And 100mg of it is literally NOTHING.

For comparisons sake I was taking
8000mg of Knotweed per day for awhile

If you're going to do Buhner's protocol the "correct" way - Knotweed needs to be included.

It's now his #1 herb, for a reason

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Razzle
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Canefan17,

Buhner recommended the Natural Factors Resveratrol I was taking initially, and the other brand I switched to was comparable...so what should be used instead?

--------------------
-Razzle
Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs.

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canefan17
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I spoke with Buhner quite often through email while I was on his protocol.

He HIGHLY recommends using bulk.
He recommends Source Naturals because he knows not everyone is willing to encapsulate their own herbs or buy in bulk.


SOURCE NATURALS OTHER INGREDIENTS
hydroxypropyl methylcellulose (capsule), maltodextrin, colloidal silicon dioxide, and magnesium stearate.

NATURAL FACTORS OTHER INGREDIENTS
Rice powder, vegetarian capsule (modified cellulose, purified water, silica), magnesium stearate (vegetable grade), silica,

^^^ There's your problem with NOT buying in bulk
I don't think Knotweed is the culprit in your case Razzle.
I'd give the bulk herb from Sarah a try.
It WILL cause herxing though.
It has great action against Bartonella.
but if you're not ready for herxing I'm not sure you're ready for any protocol.


Call Sarah @ www.1stchineseherbs.com
She has great source of Knotweed ad she's very helpful.

You will save a TON of money using bulk herbs for this protocol. I wouldn't do it any other way.

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sixgoofykids
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Do you mean Source Naturals brand? That is the brand he recommends in the book.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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Razzle
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I have taken lots of other supplements with these same inactive ingredients without problems. So all I can conclude (and same conclusion is reached by the other LLMD's and LLND's I've seen) is that the Japanese Knotweed was what caused the swallowing problem (severe herx from Lyme and/or Bart. that may have damaged the muscles and/or nerves involved with swallowing).

As for what brand it is for sure (I thought I got the same thing Buhner recommended in his book), I'd have to go dig out the bottle from the bottom of a big pile of junk, if I even still have it for sure, and I don't have the energy for that right now...

--------------------
-Razzle
Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs.

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WhitneyS
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Yea-- I really recommend the powder form and just meausuring and putting it in water. No pills... I dont think Id stick with it if i had to take that many pills
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Marz
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You're making me think I should just try puting the powder in water, Whitney.

I'm getting tired of making up the capsules too, even though I do a big batch at a time. At first it was fun.

I'm wondering how long you've been doing that because my LLMD said she tried and couldn't do it. I told her Im good at slugging bad tasting suff down, but she doubted I could do it or long.

I have Buhner's book. I'll have to dig it out and see if directions are in it.

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canefan17
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The way Whitney does it also aids in digestion.

When bitter herbs (like Andrographis) hit the tongue - they stimulate the production of digestive enzymes in the gut.

If someone takes capsules this action doesn't happen.


Same thing happens when we eat food - it all begins in the mouth (tongue sends message to gut to secrete enzymes)

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we'll win
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Short answer now...I've been doing the Bruhner protocol for a few months. He has essentially a five step program ultimately working up to -I'm no good at math- (16 + 16+ 16) pills a day?. At first I was discouraged because protocol did not seem to be working. But at third level (9 + 9 + 9) pills a day I started seeing results.

At first I was taking four supplements, the androgrohis, resveratrol. cat's claw, and smilax. Do to cost and changed recommendations from Bruhner, I stopped with the smilax.

I do think I am getting results, but I am not yet sure about my cognitive processes. Also I have a question, is this protocol just a fantastic aspirin, or is it really killing the spirochetes?

Basically I think the protocol does work. I am doing the himilaya brand for andrographis, source naturals or solaray for resveratrol, and was doing natures way, but just sent away for bulk cat's claw from raintree to make my own capsules. And I bought a $13.00 capsule machine on-line.

Important notes and full disclosure: I developed a horrible looking rash on my forehead and scalp which Bruhner feels in his book is hives. I have a different theory. Now the rash has largely gone away though I stayed on the Andrographis. But initially I was doing both a tincture of Andrographis and pills. Also, someone close to me feels I am doing less well on the protocol, as opposed to the antibiotics.

About the antibiotics. I have not turned against antibiotics and think they are crucial. I have personal reasons why I stopped my antibiotic regimen, at least for now.

I am stepping up the protocol to the next level. We will see what happens but am hoping will continue to see generally good results.

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we'll win
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I just posted and apologize for all the typos.
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WhitneyS
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Yea i think its cheaper to do the powder into water too. I hate capsules, they make me feel like I'm sick :-). I take 4 different herbs I think they were about 20$ for each bag (1 pound), and I'm not even 1/3 through the bag at a month. So its very cost effective.

I also follow Bruhner's collagen protocol, that he talks about in the book, I do pills for that, but its only once a day.

Plantthrive.com also has great info on Bruhner and he actually writes in sometimes too.

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Cass A
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Dear Friends,

I read Bruhner's book and went onto his herbal protocol in about 2006 or early 2007.

Unfortunately, I had a seizure in 2007 while on these herb--the first ever. Even after cutting back on them, I had another.

I stopped them completely, and went onto other handlings, but the seizures didn't stop. Now, I'm having to take an anti-seizure med.

So, be careful.

Best,

Cass A

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canefan17
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we'll win,

That rash on forehead sounds like Bartonella, no?

I had a rash on my forehead while increasing my knotweed dosage. It came with other Bart symptoms - I attributed it to a Bart herx.

Frontal headaches are common on knotweed too.

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we'll win
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Of course, the next day about my posting about the effectiveness of the Bruhner protocol I had one of the worst days I have had in months? years? I am still recovering. So the fight goes on (I have had Lyme for over 20 years, about 15 with bad cognitive problems). But I am going to continue, for now, with the protocol.

Canefan17, maybe you are right and the rash was Bartonella. My theory is that it was the spirochetes coming to the surface.

WhitneyS, about the powder, which powder are you talking about? Yes, I think buying bulk powder will save money (necessary on the Bruhner protocol). Is there a bulk powder for
resveratrol that you, or any in our community, think is effective? And if buying andrographis loose, in bulk, from what company/website and
what type/grade?

Thanks, everybody.

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sparkle7
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I haven't tried the Bruhner protocol but I read the book. People can have sensitivities or allergies to certain herbs. It is best to be careful when trying something new.

Start off with a low dose to see how it affects you. I guess this is one advantage of taking herbs in separate doses rather than taking a blended formula. You can tell if it's a paricular herb that is affecting you.

Sometimes, simple is better.

I guess I never tried the Buhner protocol because it seemed confusing to me at the time. I got a Lyme diagnosis & there were all these options & decisions - rife, antibiotics, various herbal protocols, salt/c, etc.

In retrospect, it does seem like a good choice but I think it may need some customization to be more individualized towards a particular person's needs.

I went with the Cowden herbs since I was able to get it for free & it was all thought out. I didn't have to buy separate herbs & make capsules, figure out stuff, etc.

rajon - I don't think you have looked into Dr. Zhang's herbal approach. I heard it was helpful for the co-infections.

Maybe the Buhner & Zhang protocols could be combined?

Resveratrol/Knotweed has some amazing properties when I researched it. Seems like it would be helpful for most people in general. I don't think I noticed much of a difference when I was taking it. I'll have to look into it again.

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jl123
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I think Bruner is disingenuous when he says he has found a 95% remission rate with lyme on his protocol. And further I never hear Bruner talk about the serious side-effects people can get from his protocol. That to me is dangerous and unfair to innocent people who read his books and think let me give this a try. I've read about too many people who did not go into remission on his program. The ego is a tremendous thing. Indeed the ego can harm people as much as Lyme itself.

People if your so sick that you feel like your literally decomposing stop the treatment, or make the decision that you may very well be sacrificing your health permanently by continuing to experiment. Remember its OUR decision to experiment with our lives/health not the Guru's who sell books and give lectures, much as they believe in the greatness of their work. j

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Marz
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Canefan, I talked with the person at 1stchinese and was surprised she steered me away from bulk for the knotweed.

She said it's not standardized so you don't really know how much you're getting.

When she heard I was taking the Source Naturals from grape skins, she said that was probably the reason I was having stomach aches. So I ordered the Source Naturals classic from her.

I thought that was what my LLMD sold me, but maybe I switched myself without realizing. But it seems I took note of the bottle before I bought it myself in a supplement store.

I am only doing this as a test to see if those symptoms go away. But, it would be way too expensive to do long term.

I'll give the bulk a try next time.

My LLMD was so enthused about Buhner because of the 95% claim when she started me on it last May.

I've wondered about that too jl.

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WhitneyS
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Yea-- I ordered mine from 1stChineseherbs.com
I hadn't heard that about the bulk Knotweed-- I do take that. Maybe I'll call next time I need to order and ask her about it. That is where I get all of my powders from. Not too worried now cause I havent been able to work up to full dose yet.

I know the 95% is people he WORKS with, meaning he has time to do some trial and error. Also, he does talk in his book about negetive side effects...so it is def mentioned.

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sparkle7
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I think Buhner specifies to use the knotweed source as resveratrol not grapes. I don't recall why but he does specify the knotweed.
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canefan17
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jl,

No offense - but the fact you call him bruner tells me all I need to know. And there are risks to ANY Lyme treatment. Buhner most definitely speaks of side effects in his book (which I'm assuming you've never read)

Ironically enough most people have no problem popping antibiotics at will. But BUHNER recommends a few HERBS and people get their panties in a bunch?


Marz,

Very cool you talked to Sarah - she's really good and is ALWAYS up front about side effects of the herbs. She's steered me away from so many of her products (costing herself $$$) - so I know she's genuine.

I don't see an issue with not knowing the amount of resveratrol you're getting. The benefits of BULK herbs far outweighs standardization in my experience and on Buhner's you're taking a hearty amount. So it'll be enough. (And Knotweed is very safe)

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Robin123
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Buhner sites:

There's a yahoo support group called lyme_aid_buhner, also there's www.planetthrive.com

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Rivendell
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Ran across this thread and wanted to talk about the difficulty with swallowing mention by Razzle.

When I started the Buhner protocal, I started with Andrographis. Started it last June, and by August was noticing an improvment. Was taking the bulk herb at about 1/4 teaspoon, 4 times per day. I doubled the dose and continued for two more months.

Then in October, I began having difficulty swallowing, my heart skipping beats and racing. Also, I started salivating. I realized this was a allergy to Andrographis. So I stopped it.

I tried it later with a smaller dosage and the symptoms began again,so I quit it for good.

Buhner doesn't recommend this herb as much any more because people have had allergic reactions to it.

Razzle, you were taking Andrographis for awhile before starting the Knotweed. That reaction was so much like mine, it could have been an allergy to Andrographis.

But, allergies are funny things. You could have been allergic to the knotweed. This is just not very common.

About allergies, people can eat a food for years with no problems, and then one day can go into anaphalaxis.

So far, I have found the knotweed to really help greatly with inflammation and depression, cognitive issues and pain. I'm takin 1/2 teaspoon three times per day. Also taking Doxy.

People can have just as many problems with prescribed meds.

Someone on here, not Razzle, was bad-mouthing Buhner. He is a sincere guy and really wants to help.

PEACE

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Rivendell
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Ran across this thread and wanted to talk about the difficulty with swallowing mention by Razzle.

When I started the Buhner protocal, I started with Andrographis. Started it last June, and by August was noticing an improvment. Was taking the bulk herb at about 1/4 teaspoon, 4 times per day. I doubled the dose and continued for two more months.

Then in October, I began having difficulty swallowing, my heart skipping beats and racing. Also, I started salivating. I realized this was a allergy to Andrographis. So I stopped it.

I tried it later with a smaller dosage and the symptoms began again,so I quit it for good.

Buhner doesn't recommend this herb as much any more because people have had allergic reactions to it.

Razzle, you were taking Andrographis for awhile before starting the Knotweed. That reaction was so much like mine, it could have been an allergy to Andrographis.

But, allergies are funny things. You could have been allergic to the knotweed. This is just not very common.

About allergies, people can eat a food for years with no problems, and then one day can go into anaphalaxis.

So far, I have found the knotweed to really help greatly with inflammation and depression, cognitive issues and pain. I'm takin 1/2 teaspoon three times per day. Also taking Doxy.

People can have just as many problems with prescribed meds.

Someone on here, not Razzle, was bad-mouthing Buhner. He is a sincere guy and really wants to help.

PEACE

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Rivendell
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Ran across this thread and wanted to talk about the difficulty with swallowing mention by Razzle.

When I started the Buhner protocal, I started with Andrographis. Started it last June, and by August was noticing an improvment. Was taking the bulk herb at about 1/4 teaspoon, 4 times per day. I doubled the dose and continued for two more months.

Then in October, I began having difficulty swallowing, my heart skipping beats and racing. Also, I started salivating. I realized this was a allergy to Andrographis. So I stopped it.

I tried it later with a smaller dosage and the symptoms began again,so I quit it for good.

Buhner doesn't recommend this herb as much any more because people have had allergic reactions to it.

Razzle, you were taking Andrographis for awhile before starting the Knotweed. That reaction was so much like mine, it could have been an allergy to Andrographis.

But, allergies are funny things. You could have been allergic to the knotweed. This is just not very common.

About allergies, people can eat a food for years with no problems, and then one day can go into anaphalaxis.

So far, I have found the knotweed to really help greatly with inflammation and depression, cognitive issues and pain. I'm takin 1/2 teaspoon three times per day. Also taking Doxy.

People can have just as many problems with prescribed meds.

Someone on here, not Razzle, was bad-mouthing Buhner. He is a sincere guy and really wants to help.

PEACE

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MattH
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I am pretty new here and several people suggested I order from Sarah. She has answered all my questions and also made less expensive recommendations!

I encapsulate the herbs and calculate I am saving about 70% even off the two other sites people often recommend.

I did read Buhner's book and am following the protocol slowly. Started just shy of a month ago, I will be at 3x3 by then begining of June and look at add abx by then. I got bit about 40 years ago so what is the rush! [Smile]

MattH

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Rivendell
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Who is Sarah? Is she with 1st Chinese Herbs?
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MattH
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Yes, Sarah is the herbalist with 1st Chinese Herbs.

MattH

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Razzle
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I have some rare allergies and other rare health conditions, so just because it isn't common for something to occur does not mean it cannot happen.

This difficulty swallowing reaction I had is thought by 2 LLND's and 2 LLMD's (one is world-reknown) to be a severe herx from the Japanese Knotweed that caused permanent nerve and/or muscle damage. Allergic reactions do not usually cause permanent damage.

I had dysmotility problems in my gut from Doxycycline also - and this was also believed to be a herx.

I don't know what else to think the cause of the swallowing issue was - I've taken Cat's Claw on more than one occasion without any problems. I also was not taking much Andrographis, and was on it for a few weeks prior to starting the Japanese Knotweed, and yet it was only after adding the Japanese Knotweed that I had problems? I don't think this was just coincidence...and I'm not about to try the Japanese Knotweed again to find out.

--------------------
-Razzle
Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs.

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