[ 12-02-2011, 12:31 AM: Message edited by: Haley ]
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seekhelp
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Wow, this was really enlightening. Made me think real hard about the choices I've made to date. Thanks for sharing.
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Keebler
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- [Editing for update to original thread: Some use of minocycline was on board for the author's treatment plan, too. Just an important note for those who see similarities in the neuro issues that excellent nutrition / diet is absolutely essential and must be key . . . yet there is more to it as well]
Haley,
Thanks so much for that link. I loved seeing the amounts of food we should eat each day. She's an amazing role model.
The regular TED Talks site does not have this. So, that TEDxIowaCity link just came out of nowhere - I never would have found that.
From her talk, for those new to lyme, it's important to know that like MS (regardless of the cause) lyme frequently attacks:
Myelin sheath (nerve "coating" for protective); and Mitochondria
posted
I have read quite a bit about diet and MS. I didn't watch your link, but I suspect it is similar to what I am familiar with. I have seen quite a few videos, and read quite a bit of research that suggests diet plays a huge role.
The theory that two physicians came up with (and I'm over simplifying it here) is that MS is an allergy. Because of several pre-conditioned factors, the patient experiences leaky gut.
When this happens, un-digested proteins are passed directly into the blood stream. these proteins have a very similar structure to the mylan sheath protein structure. The body leaps into action against these un-digested proteins, and since the spinal chord is so similar, the immune system attacks that as well.
When these foods are removed 100% from the diet (not 99%), then further development of symptoms is arrested. Amazing stuff. Again, I have over simplified a complex cascade of events, but you get the jist of it.
It requires total commitment, and it follows the paleo diet.
Heres the kicker. People with Lymes often have the same MRI scans as those with MS. And for some, development of symptoms become difficult to distinguish between a Lyme and an MS patient.
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Keebler
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- noodlydoo,
From what I've read about the Paleo Diet, I don't think that she's advocating a total Paleo diet (but, then, there may be variations of that or she may use that just as a reference point).
At her website, she shows cooked meat and onions. The strict Paleo diet suggests raw. The kale appeared to have been steamed in the video. So, at least there, she would differ.
Looking at the Table of Contents to the book, Paleo diet is not mentioned.
The index lists references to the Paleolithic Diet on just two separate pages.
Now, I've not looked at the rest of the book yet but in the 17 minute TED TALK,
she mentions food sensitivities and allergies to gluten and dairy but she goes far beyond that to food that feeds our cells, particularly or mitochondria - and food that supports, even helps repair the damage to the myelin sheath around the nerves.
She SHOWS us how much to eat; shows people what kale looks like. She discusses nutrients and what starvation does on a cellular level.
So, far beyond suggesting avoiding certain foods, she leads us to what our bodies have been craving all along, specific NUTRIENTS to feed our cells - nutrients that are missing on most dinner plates.
========================
At the Amazon link, you can do a word search inside the book. Using �Paleolithic�,
Page 28 . . . just a brief mention of the Paleolithic diet.
Page 154: In 2003, she did start some version of the Paleo Diet. . . . then other variations . . .
. . . November 2007, she started a different food protocol and variations from that point.
In the video, she said it was not until 2007 when she began to see real progress 3 months after starting her intense produce and clean protein approach.
As she has many recipes in the book, you can get a sense of the foods she recommends by reading through the index. Legumes, and brown rice recipes are there. Lamb, too.
Many supplements are also listed and, looking up glutamate, she does suggest avoiding it as it can cause neuro-excitability. I've sure experienced that with it.
She suggest magnesium to calm down neuro-excitability from toxins. It's good to see her include that.
I can't wait to get this. I've heard that we should have 8-10 servings of produce a day but not 9 cups. Seeing her before and current self is amazing.
Glad there are so many kinds of leafy greens. I've been waiting for this, I think. Been close regarding the choices, but not nearly so in the volume.
So glad to have seen the video. Thanks, again, Haley. -
[ 12-02-2011, 03:17 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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glm1111
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The recipes in the book look yummy. I have googled about 5 of them so far and they are on line for free.
P. S. If anyone cures their Lyme disease strictly following this diet, I would be shocked.
Not to be a Negative Nellie, But I have eaten very similar foods for yrs, including going on a strict 4 mos green juice fast, using cartfuls of greens and eating salmon, brown rice and more greens etc. (Dr Youngs PH Miracle Diet)Used lots of their supplements as well.
I also had a macrobiotic cook back in the 80's when i was deathly ill for a year. NOTHING worked until I went after these infections.
The diet sounds wonderful, and should definitely help with healing. I am interested in trying some of these recipes myself. I also sent her info to a friend who was dx with MS.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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Dave6002
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Food is the best medicine especially for Lyme as Lyme is a GI disease(a hypothesis)
Posts: 1078 | From Fairland | Registered: Apr 2006
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Paleo is not raw....its Paleo...or caveman diet. Which, is basically Meat (cooked is fine), Vegetables, fruit and some nuts. It's a back to basics diet. Corn chips are out, as are 95% of modern day convenience foods.
The diet isn't about what you can eat, it's about what you CAN'T eat. If the theory holds true, (and I believe in it 100%), then eating Legumes, Dairy, Gluten, Tomatoes (a veggie exception), nightshades (another exception) and a few others will set your immune system into action.
I think that most people fail with this approach simply because in todays society, there are so many failure points with holidays, friends, fast food, convenience foods etc. It takes a particularly strong will. However, there are some people that think walking and bladder control is more important than dairy.
And it only takes a sip of dairy. Your body doesn't measure your intake. You either have these proteins present.......or you don't.
Again, I have not looked at her website, but I can guarantee you that its a Paleo diet.
Personally, I don't think it's a curative diet. Although I have read several times of people eliminating many symptoms, or improving greatly......I tend to think that it is an arresting diet. Simply, start eating right and MS will stop progressing.
GLM - Although I think many Lyme patients would do wonderfully on this diet, it has nothing to do with curing Lyme. Lyme is from a bacterium and probably other co-contributing factors. This theory around MS is presented as an Allergy (over - simplifying this of course).
The reason people with lyme should consider a Paleo diet, is simply because it's an anti-inflammatory diet. So many of the foods that are NOT Paleo make your C reactive protein skyrocket. It puts your internal system under great stress. If you read about these types of diets, you'll see that so many people clear themselves of so many issues with a proper diet.
It amazes me each and every day how little importance the public puts on what they ingest. It can have such a profound impact, both positive and negative. But few people will ever fully realize this simple fact.
Cheers.
Posts: 261 | From Washington | Registered: Oct 2002
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Keebler
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- I'm still not so sure that her diet is Paleo. As she started Paleo in 2003 but it was not until 2007, still wheelchair and zero-gravity chair bound that she began what she details in the book.
Within 3 months, see saw great improvement. She did not see that improvement in 2003 with Paleo, per se.
I just ordered the book so I'll let you know more after I can read it.
I'm most interested in reading what she has to say about nourishing the myelin sheath and mitochondria, specifically, as just one aspect of an overall treatment plan.
Until her book is read, we just can't know all that she says in it. While I've been eating similarly for 20 years, its the amount that I've skimped on, trying to save money or thinking that I could do with just a 1/2 cup of greens, etc.
Again, the detail about the myelin sheath and mitochondria is what attracts me most to her work - and her study of what exact nutrients can be obtained from what exact foods, lessening processed supplements.
Even if this diet (or any diet) is not the one single end-all, be-all for lyme, my guess is that she has more to say than what was in the 17 minute video. -
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Marnie
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Boy with non-stop seizures was cured via "ketogenic diet" (Johns Hopkins) too.
True story (DVD) called "First Do No Harm" starring Meryl Streep. It is a FANTASTIC TRUE story. Many of the "extras" in the movie were cured too via that diet.
We are what we eat.
Hippocrates said "Let food be thy medicine."
The medicinal food for Alzheimers is called Axona.
It contains an "active ingredient" - caprylic acid (Capryl) along with a lot of other nutrients. It, of course, is costly.
The pharm. website says caprylic acid goes to the liver and converts to a special ketone called BHB which can cross the blood brain barrier where it goes into the cells' citric acid cycle and this -> more ATP.
Infected cells are following the "glycolysis route" and making only 2 ATP instead of the "oxidative phosphorylation route" and making 36 ATP.
Caprylic acid happens to be a known anti-bacterial, anti-viral, anti-fungal.
It is in virgin coconut oil.
There is another diet that years ago I read (in our local paper) cured a man who had bowel cancer.
That diet is called the Halleluiah diet. There is a book...
P.S.
My sis' CRP dropped with OmegaBrite = very high EPA to counter inflammation, a tad of DHA which is structurally important, and a little vitamin E to prevent oxidation of the other 2).
IMO...getting inflammation down is very helpful, but isn't the entire picture. We have to get the inflammation down AND hit the pathogen.
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Keebler
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- Echo to Gael & to Marnie's: "We have to get the inflammation down AND hit the pathogen." (end quote)
And I'll add: nourish our cells every minute. Not just eat but NOURISH. There is a difference.
Looking beyond the lyme community, like Gael, I know others who may not have lyme but might benefit greatly from this. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
My dad reversed prostate cancer with the fire engine 2 diet ALONE because he's old and won't take drugs or go to the hospital. It is similar to this one. Very strict and incredibly gassy but better than the alternative.
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Keebler
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- outerspace,
Funny, I have visions of 5-Alarm Chili on the Fire Engine 2 diet. I'll have to look that up just out of curiosity - how grand it worked for him.
[editing for clarity, I now realize you were referring to the Fire 2 diet as strict, no Wahls']
[however] I did not think what I saw on Dr. Wahls' plates was a strict diet at all.
Nine cups of good food a day seems like Christmas to me. So many here say they can't find enough foods to eat or that they feel starved. This diet is very generous to my eyes and offers good culinary complexity.
The recipes in the book sound delicious.
So, I don't think of it as strict, just precise. -
[ 12-02-2011, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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Keebler
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- [outerspace mentioned this plan as saving her/his dad's life]
On first glance, this looks interesting [and that guy is pretty cute to my eyes, too].
posted
I just began seeing a chiropractor that is a natural trained doc and she is working with me on diet and I am better than I have been in three years. There is a book called GAPS.... it is amazing. I am following the protocol. I encourage you all to read it as I believe with everything in me, we have to build our immune system to fight and because the main part of the immune system is in the gut... diet is key... Contact me if you want more info. I am beyond encouraged... I have hesitated to post here until I see how well I am doing a little further down the road... Blessings-
Posts: 859 | From Southeast | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
I haven't watched the video yet, but if this is a veggie type of whole food diet, then it makes sense with what my llmd is saying for us to go on a no fat, veggie diet to fight our disease. His theory is that it breaks down the biofilm. Google FL1953 and diet in here and you'll find lots on diet and 'lyme' or it's co infections.
-------------------- Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again! Posts: 941 | From AZ-MT | Registered: Oct 2004
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Keebler
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- hadlyme,
A no fat diet can actually be very dangerous, especially for anyone with demyelinating diseases such as lyme. Does your LLMD mean no saturated or no trans-fats? Hope so.
And, we also need a little cholesterol each day from outside sources as our body can't make all it needs. A little added cholesterol is essential for proper adrenal function. Eggs are an excellent source.
And, as for animal fats, for many with seizures the high fat Ketogenic Diet has had remarkable benefits, mostly for children and teens. Adults would follow a variation of that and anyone on it would need to be under medical care but, in that case, even animal fats seem to help heal the brain.
We are learning so much more now about the benefits of "good" fats, too, such as from fish and all the nuts, even avocado oil.
Some people find vegetarian or vegan diets to work for them but many also find they need eggs, fish and meat from clean sources.
To answer your question about the plan this doctor used and write about,
No, this is not a vegetarian or vegan diet, per se.
Still, the focus is on a LOT of vegetables and some fruits. Nice cups a day of produce.
And she does explain the importance of good fats to the nerve fibers, etc. Certain kinds of fish are highly recommended, as is organ meat (once a week).
The video is really interesting to see. You can also look a bit inside the book at the Amazon link.
My copy should arrive within 10 days and I'll come back here with my impressions then. -
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Haley
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Hadlyme is referring to Dr. F. who is also a microbiolgist that has studied the structure of the biofilm.
I have tried the very low fat diet with no meat and I found that I was not getting enough nutrients. However, I have become much more aware of fat in the diet so I have cut way back on fats.
I think that if the research of Dr. F is valid, we should find a way to "pulse the diet". I have never been overweight so I have never worried about fats, but once I followed a low fat/plant based diet my cholesterol went from 160 to 80. I felt much better.
I think of it this way - certain types of fats are clogging your system. When the blood is not clogged with fats the body can fight the infection better.
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Keebler
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- Haley,
Curious, do you have a link to that doctor's work? I'd like to read more about that.
It's hard to understand the benefits of a "no" for any of the three major nutrient groups. "No" means zero. We really need our essential fatty acids.
I have to wonder what he defines as "no" - that that mean even no fish oil supplement? Does it really mean zero?
It clear that certain kinds of fats (especially trans fats) can clog, and trans fats can be downright caustic to the lining of blood vessels, nearly immediately after consumption.
However, that is not the kind of fat this author is talking about, as I sense from the video and what I could see in the book link.
A no fat diet (even if it's supposed to have other benefits) can hurt those with demyelination of nerve. I think that is one point of this author.
Until the book is read, though, it's going to be hard to say exactly what helped her and what she suggests to nourish the mitochondra and support the myelin sheath. -
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Keebler
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- Haley,
Thanks for telling me how to find out more. Also glad to hear that it is not really "no fat" then.
While developed under a different thought process than Dr. F (and probably far different from Wahls' diet), there is another very "specific fats, low fat" diet that has helped some with a diagnosis of "MS"
Swank Diet -
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Keebler
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- Lyme causes elevated cytokines and mitochondria dysfunction. While not at all addressing lyme, this author explains how massage can help with both aspects: ------------
By Nicholas Bakalar � The New York Times - February 6, 2012 -
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lpkayak
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is anyone able to eat the 9 cups of veggies every day plus the meat and seaweed? where do you buy seaweed? or do you just pick it off the beach...sometimes theres garbage at the beach and needles and worse...
i did try taking iodine once and couldnt cuz of reflux
this diet is similar to one i have felt good on but 9 cups is a lot mine was 4-6 cups
please share if you are doing this
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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Keebler
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- You can buy seaweed in the grocery store. Most natural foods stores carry a variety of it.
As for the nine cups, leafy greens can fill up a quart pitcher very fast. That's four cups right there.
Be careful and don't consume too much seaweed. It can be overly stimulating as it contains a natural MSG. I can't "do" seaweed at all as its high glutamate content tends to lower the seizure threshold for me. -
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canga posted a great link to her official medical case report that includes minocycline as part of the protocol used - but not included in her book or video lecture.
Multiple sclerosis is Lyme disease: Anatomy of a cover-up
- by Vaughter Wellness, Z�rcherstrasse 161, CH-8010 Z�rich, Switzerland
Discusses findings of Alan B. MacDonald M.D., a lyme researcher & pathologist and
Tom Grier, MS, a microbiologist and Borrelia expert. -
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Keebler
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- FABULOUS photo here of MITOCHONDRIA
While no real practical news for us, some good background detail on mitochondria. Lyme can damage mitochondria. And there are some things we can do to help (with good nutrition).
Just background detail and maybe hope for future for various genetic diseases either caused by mitochondria defects or maybe also for those diseases / infections that cause such damage.
. . . acid blockers don’t merely shut off acid pumps in the stomach? Recent research warns that they also shut off production of acid inside the mitochondria every cell in our bodies! . . .
. . . The health of our mitochondria determine our overall health. Yet here we are blithely interfering with their cellular energy production and detoxification processes.
Sometimes our cells need more acid and sometimes the opposite. But you can be sure that no drug company knows (or cares) precisely what your mitochondria need to keep your cells happy and flourishing.
Each cell may have hundreds or even thousands of mitochondria. . . .
. . . Kidney disease is only one among many known health problems caused by acid blockers, including higher risks for
[Full article at link above.] -
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Brussels
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I do think the gluten story is true. I feel so much more energetic without gluten and so does my daughter.
As for veggies, we do eat a lot. And when we do, it is true that carb intake goes naturally down (just because you are full of veggies).
I was thinking that it is SO HARD to change diet.
I have a rule: I change ONE THING at a time.
For example: I cut on one thing at a time, or I add one thing at a time. Then I make a little rule: example: I will eat 1 raw veggie a day.
I let it sit for a while, and follow it like a prayer. When I find the rule became a habit, well I change something else.
Every time one thing only. Sometimes it is very hard to change this only thing: example, you decide not to consume any animal product that is NOT organic.
Well, that will take some time and money. If you are not ready, do not do that.
My old rules are: - at least 3 different raw veggies (or fruits) on one meal - preferably veggies of different colors - mostly organic, if possible - avoid buying any animal meat that is not organic - always eat one green leaf veggie every day (cooked or not) - never eat breakfast without at least, a fruit - never add sugar to anything - add good spices to cooked food (like garlic, ginger, cardamon, onions, paprika...) - eat (Omega 3) fish at least 2 times a week
My recent rules are: - no gluten - at least 1 probiotic food at the table - eat 2/3 of veggies in a meal
I promise that it is not boring, nor tasteless. For me, food gets more and more tasty, instead.
I have real pleasure in eating like that, because my cells thank me. That is why I can keep adding new rules, tuning the diet.
Food is medicine. I have no doubt about that.
The point is that you only notice when you tune the diet for your health condition. The more your health improves (and gut health improves), you have to keep adjusting the diet.
the biggest problem is how to change from a sick diet to a healthier one?
That is when I came with the ONE AT A TIME rule. Otherwise, it is impossible, specially when you are still ill with lyme.
You have little energy, and you are overwhelmed with lyme treatment and feeling crap, and you still have to cook and change your whole eating habits (including shopping habits, social habits, etc). Doing one change at a time, is an easier way to tackle the problem. It pays back, I swear!
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Don't forget that Dr Wahls was also treated with antibiotics. I saw the study on that years ago. It listed all the conventional drugs she took.
She did not get well on veggies alone. I suspect that she had hidden Lyme or a coinfection.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Keebler
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- Yes, that is important to consider & detail about inclusion of minocycline in her treatment is placed in various places this thread.
I was trying to build onto this but maybe need to make a new thread just for mitochondria support. Another day, though.
MITOCHONDRIA nutrition is still essential.
Yet, that does not negate the absolute necessity to provide our bodies / our mitochondria with the very best nutrients possible. And learning more about how to help our mitochondria is key to recovery along with the direct assertive targeting of stealth infections.
If our mitochondria are hampered, we cannot get well. Food from the earth is our best mitochondrial support & goes hand in hand with liver & kidney support -- along with not doing other things that damage or block mitochondria function. -
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Keebler
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canga posted a great link to her official medical case report that includes minocycline as part of the protocol used - but not included in her book or video lecture.
canga posted a great link to her official medical case report that includes minocycline as part of the protocol used -but not included in her book or video lecture.
This detail is VERY important.
- Exactly. I guess by now she's made plenty of money on this.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Brussels
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And who is getting well from lyme on minocycline only?
If she did, she was still super-woman, or super-lucky.
She said she had got the best of what conventional medicine could provide her in this video. That means probably much more than mino, I suppose, she said she even had chemiotherapy!!.
But her health was still declining.
What I understand by this video is that ONLY when she decided to get proper brain nutrition was when everything changed drastically. For better.
Not until that happened.
Not because of drugs. Conventional treatments didn't help her out her anti-gravity chair. That's what she said.
She didn't say she DIDN'T take drugs.
On the opposite, she said she did even chemio.
If she took mino and got better, well, that would be still amazing. She would then thank conventional therapies and praise her own background education in medical school.
The point is, she didn't find help with conventional medical treatments.
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Keebler
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- Indeed, Brussels says it well and reminded me, too, that regardless of whatever therapies she incorporated before, it was not until the diet changes that the most profound changes occurred.
The author's book point about "Minding Your Mitochondria" - with a wide array of healthful nutrient rich foods will always ring a very vital bell.
Mitochondria matter big time in the equation. Repair needs a good plan and her book is important information in that plan. -
[ 08-24-2016, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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Haley
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Wow - how great to see this post brought back up.
I love the idea of adding one thing at a time. I completely agree with that method. And thank you Brussels for posting exactly what you changed and how. Love that.
When I posted this in 2011 I had not followed the Whals protocol. I have since followed it and feel so much better when I eat this way. I was doing 9 cups of veggies a day. I now do between 3 and 6.
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