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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Can Lyme be gotten through salava?

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Author Topic: Can Lyme be gotten through salava?
Maryinvt2
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I was just wondering since Lyme can go every place in our body; can it go into our salava too? Or has medical science not found out yet?
Mary [confused] [Frown]

--------------------
If you could get up the courage to begin, you have the courage to succeed. David Visott ~

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Lymedin2010
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I always found it so silly why anyone would deny this. If BB is a spirochete and can burrow into any tissue and organ, it seems obvious that it can find comfort in someone's mouth.

Like the joker said.....wait till they get a load of me!


Spirochetes in the mouth, but are they the ones that cause Lyme?
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=ern5EKHDvUQ

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=plpp&v=Esy4h8a5Q2U

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=plpp&v=hyof5QXflos

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=39QAUHU1fP8

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Keebler
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-
There are many kinds of spirochetes. Not all are borrelia b. But I do think lyme can be in the mouth. I have an article somewhere in my computer that says so.

And here's something few ever consider: traces of blood in the saliva.

Tooth brushing and also the gum disease that goes with lyme can cause nearly daily bleeding of some kind.

I always want to know WHY do you ask?

The reason can help others better address your concerns. Now, you may not want to say but if just for curiosity, with so many here so very tired, they (or I) would not go so far with a reply.

If, by chance, someone might be considering soon playing "kissy face" with someone very fond to them, then that's a more complex discussion.

If someone picked up by mistake my water glass and wanted to know if they should freak out or not, a different reply altogether.

My thinking on this:

lyme is not likely to be transmitted via salvia alone - or by drinking after someone (though it's best not to do that for many reasons).

However, if any blood is in the saliva, I would think there could be a greater risk.
-

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Keebler
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-
"Or has medical science not found out yet?" (end quote)

Most of the lyme illiterates in medical science would not know what to look for, how to find it, don't really care and would not say so it if jumped out and bit them on the behind.

Some LL researchers are considering this but microscope clarity and other testing is tricky at best.

And, at the end of the day, I think most probably feel that kissing is not that big of a transmission risk. Some do think that sexual contact can be a mode of transmission, though that is also hard to prove.

There may be a few LL Dentists around but, let me tell you that most dentists will laugh you out of their office if you ask to check for oral spirochetes.

I call over over my city for a dentist who had the methods to help with my ailing mouth and asked whether they could assess a full range of spirochetes. No luck. And we even have a college of dentistry here.

But, since "lyme" is not even allowed to be whispered in my state in a MD's office - perhaps the dentists offices have also gotten wind of that state mandate: no spirochete talk.
-

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Keebler
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-
I should have this as my mouth has been a virtual disaster zone since lyme started and went undiagnosed for decades. But, I do not yet have it so can't say if the authors address borrelia or just other spirochetes.

And, I have to pause at my use of "just other spirochetes" as just because it may not be lyme does not mean it might not be very important.

----------------

http://www.lymebook.com/silent-saboteurs-nordquist-krutchkoff

The Silent Saboteurs: Unmasking Our Own Oral Spirochetes As The Key To Saving TRILLIONS in Health Care Costs

-by William D. Nordquist, BS, DMD, MS

& David J. Krutchkoff, DDS, MS

236 Pages
-

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tickle
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quote:
I also strongly feel the spirochete story will one day, in the very near future, be one of the main podium topics that will appear in most congresses throughout the world. To me, Dr. Nordquist is a true and honest genius who one day will be considered a legend in the field of medicine and dentistry.

Leonard I. Linkow DDS DMSc

Heck yeah! Spirochetes in the mouth (not lyme) behind heart disease and other diseases. They've been found in the brains of alzheimer victims - as have borrelia spirochetes.

I can't wait for mainstream to catch up and start pouring research dollars into spirochete research. It's a new universe.

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Keebler
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-
While systemic treatment is required for lyme, these oral treatment hold some promise for topical.

I'd also think that certain light therapy would, too. Search: Sota Lightworks

----------------------

http://www.auromere.com/ingredients_mw.html

Auromere Ayurvedic Herbal Mouthwash

Ingredient / property list

----------------------------

From Julie:

Thieves Oil Mouthwash

http://youngliving.com/thieves - see oral care section

--------------------

For the Liquid - Drops. You may need to get a dropper LID with this. The photo does not show that. Be sure to ask first.

http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/search/search.php?refine=y&keywords=Grapefruit+Seed+Extract

Mountain Rose Herbs Grapefruit Seed Extract - 2 oz. $16.

. . . This Grapefruit seed extract is combined with glycerin where as most suppliers have their extracts based in propylene glycol. . . .

===================================

sixgoofykids posted on a related thread about GSE: I took Nutribiotic drops and could never take the full dose. My LLMD used it for cyst busting because I was so reactive to Tindamax. (end quote)

CITRICIDAL

http://www.nutribiotic.com/gse-liquid-concentrate-2oz.html

Nutribiotic Grapefruit Seed Extract Liquid Concentrate 2 oz. $14.

http://www.nutribiotic.com/gse-tablets-100s.html

Nutribiotic Grapefruit Seed Extract Tablets, 125 mg, 100 tabs. $11.
--

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derk diggler
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if thats the case than ive infected alot of girls out there,,, or wait did they infect me ugggghhhh?????

--------------------
+++++++
do i have lyme, please comment, derealisation,anxiety,floaters,hypertension,tinnitus,dizziness,minor aches,igenix results,igm,**83-93ind,igg**41++ what do u think,please comment

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tickled1
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How do you know they were sacks of spirochetes?
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sixgoofykids
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None of the men I kissed in college (I had Lyme way back then) are sick with Lyme. (I know, it's pathetic that I kissed so few that I still know them all).

My husband and kids don't have Lyme, except for the daughter who had a tick bite.

I don't deny it's in saliva or that someone who has a very weak immune system could get it from saliva, but I think it's unlikely.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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AuntyLynn
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They have found the spirochete in SEMEN.

So ... a word to the ethical, or the cautious.

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anuta
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My boyfriend was just diagnosed with Lyme energetically while we were in Germany . This is 5 years after me.

I think he got it through the intercourse from me or wise versa, since I never felt the bite and he has very strong immune system. He is pretty much asymptomatic most of the time, with the exception of shoulder pain when he works physically and fatigue sometimes.

If it would be for the energetic tests I would never suspected Lyme, but I started to treat him with the PE-1 using higher dilutions of Borrelia nosode and he herxed.

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randibear
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that's why oil pulling with coconut oil can be effective.

--------------------
do not look back when the only course is forward

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bcb1200
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Good grief.

People need to live their lives and stop living in fear. ILADS (our biggest advocate) says there is no evidence of transmission this way. Have they found spirochete's? Sure. Can it be transmitted this way? Possibly? Is it LIKELY? No!

--------------------
Bite date ?
2/10 symptoms began
5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors

IgM Igenex +/CDC +
+ 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93

Currently on:

Currently at around 80% +/- most days.

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MichaelTampa
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Mary - Not sure if you were asking due to considering possibility of transmission that way, or for other reasons. Some LLMD's and labs have clearly found the lyme in the saliva. So about that, there is no question. The question regarding getting someone sick through passing saliva is a different one, and one that you see there are a variety of thoughts on.
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Maryinvt2
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Well I had dental work done and the dentist knew

that I have Lyme as I told him that day befor I

went into that office. He did some repair work

and wore a facemask and gloves. There is still

another cavity but I was told that I was done

for now. I also found an article about salava

and I hope that this will post. Just read the

last paragraph on pg. 2 Mary

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/wJ_XT8ZHC6RUwiRwUT3NtOQRn_xyztuImnJHxjKWfW3ToCGLJVag8VH7Zcha7pdq74oW-i96eDBBZrD_S4TrB50-chs/Miscellaneous%20/access.pdf

I may have to cut and paste the paragraph if

this does not work.

--------------------
If you could get up the courage to begin, you have the courage to succeed. David Visott ~

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Keebler
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-
Every dentist wears face mask & gloves for every procedure these days.

He would have done that, regardless.

If that face mask just for the nose and mouth, protective glasses (or goggles) are also usually worn now.

The gear my dentist uses has him looking like a Star Wars character - I prefer the old days before all that (and probably most dentists do, too) but do agree it's necessary for protection of everyone.

I also hate the huge wrap-a-round sunglasses they make us wear. The warp everything in sight. but they keep spit out of my eyes.
-

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Maryinvt2
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I didn't have sunglasses on in the dentist office,

but I wear sunglasses with good coverage as the

sun and light bothers my eyes. I have less

problems with head aches that way.

--------------------
If you could get up the courage to begin, you have the courage to succeed. David Visott ~

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nonna05
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Goes with Post/// Help/sites He see's thinks I'm contagious 6-12 3:29pm


An other thing is how do you SEE a spirokete sack? sp sorry

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nonna05
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just upped it ...3-4 post above this
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FuzzySlippers
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Sometimes I wish some of participating members here would tone down their rhetoric.


Mary, I personally think your question here is a valid one. And it's something that is often discussed and debated.


I am very grateful that I am not a new member reading this thread -- or new to lyme disease, and trying to find help with resources and experiences.


Reading some of the rhetoric here -- well, I felt more brain dead after reading this thread then I felt before I began reading it.


And that's saying something because, as you all know, we with Lyme and associated complications are quite familiar with that brain dead feeling. lol


Fortunately scattered within the thread there are some honest-to-goodness attempts to answer the original poster's question, including helpful links. Also, some kind people who have offered carefully constructed personal opinions.


I don't mean to be rude. I just literally shudder when I see some of the reckless rhetoric. . . .


When did Bb spirochetes become macroscopic and visible from a liver flush, I wonder?

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Maryinvt2
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Thanks for the replys. Good, bad or indifferent. I am new to the Lyme game. And I have many questions. There is nothing wrong in being causious in this world. I think I will try pouring Listerine over my toothbrush too. Again thanks.

--------------------
If you could get up the courage to begin, you have the courage to succeed. David Visott ~

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Lymedin2010
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Do a search for "chlorox to rid of oral spirochetes" and you will soon see that your standard oral hygiene products maybe ineffective in treating oral Spirochetes.

Reportedly a combo of baking soda and small concentration of Clorox bleach helps.

Sounds like long term oil pulling might be a better option though?

http://www.mdjunction.com/forums/lyme-disease-support-forums/general-support/2342310-cleaning-teeth-and-mouth-to-kill-lyme

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nonna05
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This would just add fuel to the issue of grandkids visiting as far as their Dad is concerned


Between the 2 post it's not likely ,BUT...and it's the But that concerns him........

So I haven't even thought about toothbrushes etc,,,, Do most of you soak in solution of some kind

I just keep thinking how I was LaLaLaing through
trips ,mountains ,planes etc ,,,
and I'm in the fight of my life...

I've always been a cautious person....and just did not have any idea about Tick's,

Checking, driving Eastern board for color changes and lobster..
woods for a picnic in Rep. of Georgia,,,,
Heck peeing in the woods as a teen when we hid and had parties..
It's staggering

Site seeing all National parks on West coast ,where Jordan fisher got it..those wonderful Red Woods....


Now a news report on Fox news in Denver that Say's there's a tick, new breed that actually get IN the beef ...if you eat it ,your sick and there is no cure..

Promise that wasn't a Steven King Novel idea

A Friend actually saw the report and the interview with a scientist/Doctor..

I don't really want to check for it,,,just to much for now..
Also MSN open page had 17 worst bugs/spiders on open page today,,Tick was first,, [cussing] [dizzy]

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by FuzzySlippers:

Sometimes I wish some of participating members here would tone down their rhetoric.


-
Yes.

and "oral spirochetes" are not necessarily (if at all) Lyme spirochetes

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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sammy
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If Lyme was so easily found in the saliva then it could be readily used to test and diagnose sick people.

We wouldn't have to worry about all the false negative western blots any longer.

Just my 2 cents.

Nonna, you already know my opinion on this topic.

I want to apologize for all of the newcomers that may be reading this. Please don't be scared. This topic may be frightening and overwhelming.

Lesson learned here, you must do your own research. Make sure that what you read has references with scientific evidence. Also, talk with your doctor. Form your own opinions.

We are all here to learn and help each other get better. Sometimes we disagree on some topics, that's OK. We should all feel free to share and discuss as needed.

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Lymedin2010
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Agree to disagree.

Dissemination via body fluids can be a factor of overall infection or localized infection. The longer one caries BB, and especially without treatment, the greater the risks.

The tick does not know to bite a specific body part of a deer, mouse, chipmunk, bird, or squirrel. For the BB spirochete to be this successful and widespread, it must be readily available throughout the body . It does not merely stay in joints or any specific organ in these animals (or in us), otherwise we would see less frequency of transmission.

The tick has to easily pickup BB from the host to insure spread and survival and it typically does. If it is widespread, then it can easily spill over into semen, vaginal secretions, urine, and saliva.

The question seems to be answered through reasoning and I would be highly suspicious going into experimental testing. The question really should be, what other coinfections can possibly be transmiited simultaneously (including parasites).

Also, just because one picks up BB from saliva, does not always mean that there is successful transmission. Continual exposure increases the chances many fold though.

If saliva transmission occurs, the new host may take longer to get ill. Since not all the same coinfections that were present in the original host may be transmitted.

I am sorry but denying the evidence and risks are as ignorant as the CDC denying chronic BB infection and persistence. With all that being said and evidence into consideration I am still hopeful that it does not happen that often.
However, hope does not necessitate the truth.

Here is your contact transmission survivors guide & bible. The evidence is insurmountable!

http://lymerick.net/Transmission-Bb-contact.htm

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nonna05
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If you read this thread..It would make you concerned not only about food....but supplements with bovine/colustrium sp? etc

Somebody please tell me I read it wrong..It would mean so many thing's
Lymedin2010 what precautions did you start after reading this?

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Lymedin2010
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Nonna, I don't mean to scare but only to be realistic. BB might be more common than the general public believes, as some studies might suggest.

I believe when chronic illness comes to play, it has to do with amplification of load from coinfections (bacterial, virial, fungal, and/or parasitic), immune susceptibility, detox efficiency, and metal and environmenral toxicity.

We no longer walk on the grass unless neccessary and with tick spray and tick checks. I used to handle raw meat with my bare hands, not anymore. I will no longer have any medium rare meats in restaurants and mostly no meats unless it's chicken. Any meats at home has to be well done. I used to love seafood, but noshell fish anymore. No more packaged smoke salmon and smoked meats in general. Any smoked products I heat up in the oven for a while.

I avoid eating many RAW fruits and veggies, since these can also be vectors of parasites and other organisms. I used to love eating berries of various sorts and no more. I am down to grapefruit and green apples only.

Avoid time frames in mosquito infested areas. My family used to freely drink from one another's glasses/cups, but not anymore. Also with leftover food, it gets thrown out now. The exception is between my wife and I.

I would avoid deep kissing and use protection, but my wife would have non of that. I tried and did my part and only wanted her to be safe. She was insulted when I mentioned these things and I understand why. Our relationship is heavily revolved on our affection for one another.

What I have noticed is that she has become more like me over the years. She has had twitching and tremors, Womenly issues, bouts of headaches, tiredness, bunion pains, and now GI pain and just had a biopsy done. All these symptoms come and go. She is hard headed and does not believe she has Lyme. She is a nurse and she thinks it is her Vit D deficiency and hormonal. Unfortunately she will have to get a lot sicker before she realizes.

Mind you these habits are a 360 from how I used to be. I was virile and felt indestructible. I would be the first to get my hands dirty and get into the thick of things. I have been exposed to asbestos, swallowed gasoline, swallowed poisons that should have killed me. Worked and lived in moldy basements for months and been exposed to various carcinogens. From direct contact to benzene and formaldehyde.

So what would cause a person to have such a different perspective? Never in my life did I imagine even the possibility of this reality now. If there were ever such things as evil, the devil or aliens, then the conglomeration of what we are dealing with has to be it. Had I caught this earlier while my symptoms were mild, I may have never felt like this and may have never taken the precautions that I take now.

I think it takes one to be really sick with this and see how many people around you are continuously getting bit. Only then might the true nature of the beast be revealed. Others learn quicker, and yet still others need more lessons.

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AuntyLynn
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Lymedin2010 - That is a fascinating link!

I wonder how old it is, since the writer "questions" the possibility of trans-placental transmission, which we now know is fact.

Now, I realize that we all have our personal foibles as to what is kosher and what is unclean, but fruits and vegetables? And milk? Yet - you admit that you do not "sully" your marital relationship with precaution due to your wife's inability to come to grips with the possibility?

As for sharing cups and silverware, that was never the norm in my household ... as it's a great way to pass the common cold.

Frankly, if I were down to apples and grapefruit, I WOULD be worried about sexual transmission! ESPECIALLY given the results of that cryogenically frozen mouse sperm study!

Moreover, I found it somewhat counterintuitive that you avoid milk and meat, but consider chicken to be acceptable - because in my book, poultry is just about the filthiest meat in the marketplace.

As they say, one man's meat is another's poison.

And since it seems obvious that our USDA and FDA are NOT testing meat or milk for borrelia (as they barely manage to test ANYthing adequately), I guess it's just down to "survival of the fittest!"

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Lymedin2010
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"Counterintuitive" is a good way to put it. In an attempt for brevity I failed to mention that I used to have red meat just about every other day prior. I am a big boned kind of guy and derive energy, so it felt like, from consuming meats. It would keep me fuller and last me longer than anything else that I ate, especially when compared to carbs.

Part of my constant lack of energy and the need to fuel myself might have been Lyme all along.

Now, I may have red meat 1-3 times a month, a big departure from what I used to consume. This is strictly steak, pork, beef, lamb, ribs... etc, pure meat foods. When I dont have the meat I feel something lacking and less energy.
There have been studies that indicated that individuals that consumed more red meats (and milk for that matter) were more prone to cancers. I don't think any such studies have been done on poultry?

When I do consume red meats I make sure that it is handled properly and treat all meats as if I am entering a contaminated zone. I over cook the meats as well, whereas before medium rare was always juicer and tastier.

I do the same with chicken (careful handling and overcooking), but chose it as a lesser of the evils. I cannot get away from meat personally and it would be too hard for me. I would feel less energized, than what I already feel.

Logically red meat manifestations are easier to cross over into humans than poultry. For someone who believed they had to have meat, what would you recommend? What is there left? Could I and others be wrong in our comfort in chicken and turkey, it could very well be, but then what is our meat option?
I have found too much fish to be harder on my stomach and can only take small portions.

I did not mention anything about milk in my previous posts, but while we are on the subject let's discuss this a little further. Milk is pasteurized and is heated well enough to kill BB. ALL forms of BB DIE when heat treated at 108 degrees for 20min. Pasteurization does the job of killing BB well, but what about any of the other organisms? That is the real question?

I believe most likely it is heated high enough that most all organisms are killed, otherwise there would be more people getting sick. I dont know of anyone who has gotten sick from drinking milk. I have been a milcaholic for years without any problem. When I first got sick I stopped milk and only got worst with symptoms. When I finally got the right combo of ABX and my symptoms started to dwindle I consumed milk again.

Burrascano states that dairy is ok? I sometimes wonder about this, in particular with milk? The time I switched over meds that appeared to work, to meds that did not, was also the time I started to take Vit D and had more milk. I had slid back to a point not quite reachable with the 2nd round of the same ABX. Did the Vit D or other Vit, or hormones in the milk contribute to this? Did the new ABX allow this to happen, I believe this more likely, but I always questioned milk.

What I believe still carries risks with meats and milk, chicken included, is the toxins and chemicals that are present from the heat treated and dead bugs. Some of the chemicals might be denatured by heat treatment, while others just might remain intact. Long term meat eaters might coincide with long term load build up (if not cooked properly) and long term toxin build up, perhaps contributing to cancers.

As far as my wife is concerned, I believe given how long we've been together, how long and hard I've been sick for, and our relationship habits that she must surely have gotten it from me. At this point it might even be too late. What we could avoid is reinfection with my treatment, although given how unwell I feel I wonder how much of a difference there would be if at all.

We could also avoid picking up new pathogens and transferring them to one another by using precautions.

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nonna05
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maryinvt2 I couldn't get to the link,where you said to read last paragraph... any help...


Now we not only get the contagious/transfer part,

,But D3 comes up again..and what about supplements that aren't 100% vegetarian

Good Lord ..This has made me feel like my mouth is contaminated...Yes Sammy, I know what you think,,,

Not that you mentioned it but remember those listerine sprays???

Kills bacteria and germs...Makes me want to carry it around again,,,But if that worked ,then I guess they'd find something eaisier for us all to get well on,


What is standard treatment like in Italy....and precautions??

Cause I can tell you, not once before these 3 post had I heard of ,or really thought of it passing...

Like sometimes for other illness ,you think , I've been on ABX's for 24 hours, so although I may still feel lousy ,I can't pass it on...


/ [Eek!] [Mad]

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Lymedin2010
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Manybites, thanks for posting that. The sum of all our experiences is the answers that we hunt for and seek. I have never been enlightened by any doctor or medical practitioner, but instead by complete strangers who have greater insight and vested interest in their families health and their own health.

What many of us do here is listen to one another and at least give consideration to ideas. This is something that is lacking overall in the medical community. My experiences and the murmurs of many others indicate that they just don't give a crap. This is the stark reality we live in.

Nonna, I think kids will be safe overall. Just avoid slobbering them with wet kisses, spitting in their faces while talking, and sharing drinks and foods. Do not taste foods and continue to use the same utensil when cooking.

One other thing to consider and I will give you an example. Here in my neighborhood I might be standing at the bus stop or walking down the block in the evening with someone. Every now and again we encounter relentless insects or Mosquitos of sorts. They drop bite, we chase them off and they are rapidly back on us again.

So here I am with another person swatting at these insects to much avail. They are flying between and biting us and I am now consciously aware that I could transfer my load to anyone, given the proper conditions. I thnk this happens between family members (of non sexual relations) often and leads to more transmission modalities.

Try to avoid biting insects and especially Mosquitos around non infected children. I will give a few ex on how to. Avoid going out during the cooler evenings, when Mosquitos are more prevalent. I turn off the light outside my door during the night and now when I enter the house there are less insects and Mosquitos that enter. Make sure you have good window screening and backdoor screening.

This is about all that we can do for now for the sake of caution.

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nonna05
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I took the time to print out lymedin2010,link for lymerick transmission.. gave to doctor. he just glanced at it,, and put to the side.
I tried to get him to look at human study..

he just said aside fron possible intercourse, you get it vertical.....


I think he meant walking etc/////

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nonna05
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up...any who though never/not transfer question the idea after this and other post on contagious
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nonna05
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Did that make sense???/Lymedin...Other post about bite to human from same source /
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Lymedin2010
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Yes, I think it is very feasible.

It is possible to get bit by a mosquito and pass at least part of your load unto others.

It is an odds game. Just like there are many people who walk on the grass and are constantly outdoors and never get bit. Others take only 3-4 steps on the grass and are unfortunate.

The same odds game are played out with contact and secondary insect transmission.

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nonna05
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Why is it that if you're on antibiotic's for say bronchitis for 24 hours or some other infection...a person/doc can say I can't infect you ,even though still sick ,,cause treatments going on for more than 24 hours.

Why/what makes this so different.

Honestly , I didn't just lay here and think up this other stuff I posted or asked questions about..It came to me from others,,

It was not even on my radar until mid May

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