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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Is low fat diet the answer? Dr. F thinks so. (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Is low fat diet the answer? Dr. F thinks so.
Catgirl
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I got this link below from another blog (thanks James).

Below is an interesting interview by doctors Marc Bramam and Dr F regarding a low fat vegan diet being key to reducing biofilms. After reading this, I can't help but wonder if protomyxzoa biofilm is protecting lyme and company.

Also, he's not a fan of magnesium supplements.

So, I wonder how his patients can eat McDougall and Campbell diets and not get yeast? I guess it's possible for most of his patients.

So maybe this is the answer: McDougall and Campbell diets and a non-antibiotic protocol, perhaps Buhner, Byron white or Cowden. I wish I had seen this a year ago (yeast issues ever since I started abx). I would have tried it (I was a vegan back then, but a bad one--I ate vegan carrot cake, chips, etc-ha ha).

I actually went vegan after one tick bite and felt better. Unfortunately, I got bit again. The last tick gave me babs.

This makes me want to try it though. I'm already on herbs, but have to figure out a way to do this with the yeast (slowly?).

http://www.iadvocatehealth.org/protozoal_infection0.aspx

**edited name of LLMD**

[ 06-24-2012, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: Catgirl ]

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annxyzz
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You could try it for six months and monitor your response .

Frankly , we really do not know anything conclusively . The fact that some people "test positive " for this and have ZERO symptoms causes me to question how significant this finding is . I also do not understand throwing antibiotics ( his interview ) at something that he admits can not be eradicated . If it can not cure the " protozoa" then advising ABX a long time is setting the patient up for NEW PROBLEMS . ABX are not "vitamins " or "good for you " supplements .

Dr F's knowledge of his organism seems really limited at this time .

One thing I have observed here is an astounding number of posts that indicate the ABX prescribed are not working ...... and that so many have taken them several years and are still not close to recovery . This causes any logical person to question if we really know our enemy .

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annxyzz

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Brussels
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Cat girl, the article was pretty interesting!Thanks for sharing it!!

It makes me think that Rechts regulat, the product which contains many enzymes, recommended by dr. K., that makes the blood flow better, could be a life saviour.

It is also believed to be a bio film breaker, if my memory is good.

I never could stop it, even though I have no lyme anymore. Somehow Recths keeps testing good and I take it as a food supplement.

From all the hundreds of substances I took against lyme, coinfections, immune regulators, cleansers, well, only a few remained, and Rechts is one.

It is a passionate article, and makes us think about the connection of low fat diet too, and health or immune system function (not only because we starve the bugs in my opinion).

If you ever fasted on nothing or only a fruit a day (I did that), you see immediately how the immune system goes MUCH BETTER very fast. And the low fat diet could be a sort of fasting, possibly?

I know that a HIGH fat diet helps somehow with herxheimer and with candida. At least for me. I could eat butter in spoons or Ghee butter in high amounts, or egg after egg when I was herxing badly. That could calm the herxes, many times, it did.

And I think that dr. K. is of opinion that no heavy metal detox can go on without fats.

I wonder if olive oil and plant fats are fine, in dr. F's low fat diet list...

Or all fats are bad, what do you think?

does someone know what are the forbidden items in dr. F.'s strict diet plan??
thanks!

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emla999/Lyme
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Annxyzz said...

quote:
One thing I have observed here is an astounding number of posts that indicate the ABX prescribed are not working ...... and that so many have taken them several years and are still not close to recovery. This causes any logical person to question if we really know our enemy.

I highly agree with your statement because after years of taking numerous antibiotics, antiparasite drugs, antifungal drugs, antiviral compounds, chelators, binders, herbs and numerous other supplements my health problems were only slightly better than before I started taking all of that stuff. But then last year I come across Matt Stone's blog. And his views on what actually causes chronic health problems and what you should do to help heal those chronic health problems were sort a "180 degree" turn from what I had been doing all of those years. And then I decided to basically stop taking all of the various drugs, supplements and all of the other stuff that I had been taking for years and then I started to follow a few of Matt's suggestion which basically involves dietary changes that increase your body temperature and increase your metabolism.


And for me this consists of drinking much less water than I used to and eating alot more carbs/sugars than I used to and eating a little more salt than I used to plus a few other minor things. And now I fell profoundly better. But if I want to feel like crap again all that I have to do is start drinking more water and eat less carbs while taking a boat load of supplements and/or various antimicrobial compounds again. If I do that then alot of my old symptoms will just start to flare back up.


So Annxyzz, your statement rang true with me, do we really know our enemy?

.

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nefferdun
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Three months ago I started the low fat vegan diet and I have gotten much better so I would say it works. I have no problem with yeast but I am not on abx right now.

I learned a lot about carbs when my son was diagnosed with diabetes. Beans, lentils, brown rice, quinoa etc are not going to give you yeast because they do not raise the blood sugar quickly. They are low to medium on the GI.

People also worry about not getting enough "good fats". You are allowed 15 grams of fat on the diet. A capsule of flax oil has a fraction of that. The highest source of omega 3 fatty acids is chia seeds and they also have a lot of protein.

There are two other things that are milestones in my recovery. I had the methyl cycle mutations tests so I am fixing those pathways so I detox better and can assimilate the nutrients I need to be healthy. That also requires a vegan diet.

I started stromectol about 3 weeks ago and it has stopped all my symptoms. I just can't run. As I couldn't climb the stairs 3 months ago, it is expected not to have all my stamina back. I was never much of a runner anyway.

I can think better, I have more motivation and I don't get tired. I have been working really hard the last couple of weeks with no burn out.

So, with the diet I have more energy, better mental clarity, no yeast, and generally feel happier.

Oh yes, I also started LDN and that stopped my thyroid problem. I now have a normal temperature for the first time in my life.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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Haley
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Wow, Nefferdun... that is great news. makes me want to go back on the low fat diet. I did feel good but I could not sustain. I lost too much weight and my body needed more protein.

Catgirl - you should watch forks over knives. Great show about the benefits of a low fat diet.

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lyme in Putnam
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I'm happy for you neff. Happy you're on the upswing side.

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He took u to it, He'll you through

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hadlyme
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My abx ARE working. That and my low fat diet keep me just fine.

I have never taken anything else for biofilm busting. Just the low fat, thin those walls out and hit them with my rotation of maintenance of zith, malarone and diflucan.

I'm as 'healthy' as I can be with this.

Why not eat low fat instead of popping another pill for biofilm? You all seem to be on the 'natural' kick, so why not eat whole foods and take one less pill?

And yes, I do not take mag. as a suppliment any longer. I am still ok with those levels too.

I walk 2 miles a day, work fulltime.... pretty normal. And if that means taking what I am for a lifetime, I'm ok with living normal with those things.

You all need to read up on the articles on the Fry bug before you start making statements about it that are not correct.

What's good for my body might not be good for yours, but we all need to do what we 'think' is best for ourselves.

And by the way.. dr. f knowledge is not limited.... If only you knew...... I have medical papers from him for other dr.s that I can pass out. I can not share those with the public. But believe me, there's not limit in what his brain knows on this topic. He had normal patients that all of a sudden got sick from bug bites and were never the same after those bites. That was many many years ago, and many many years of research. This isn't 'lyme' that he's studying. It's chronic diseases.

Study up on it, it's interesting to say the least how a dr. 'wants' to figure this out, instead of JUST treating it like other llmds.

--------------------
Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again!

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lymielauren28
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Hadlyme,

How do you stay on a low fat diet and take in enough fat so that the Malarone absorbs properly in your system? This is my dilemma...

--------------------
"The only way out is through"

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hadlyme
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I do not worry about eating fat with my malarone. We are different in all aspects in this matter.

If you eat fat, you're making the biofilm thicker and the malarone will not hit it as well.

I asked my llmd about this. He stated that 'fat will make the biofilm thicker, it's up to you to eat fat with malarone". He can't legally say not to, when the RX tells you to do it. I read between the lines of what he was saying and I do not worry about taking fat with it.

Up to you if you still want to. I choose not to. We need to do what we think is right for our bodies.

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Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again!

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lymielauren28
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Hadlyme,

How do you stay on a low fat diet and take in enough fat so that the Malarone absorbs properly in your system? This is my dilemma...

--------------------
"The only way out is through"

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hadlyme
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I answered this, for me I do not take it, it still works. I'm pretty 'healthy' for having this disease. Plain and simple. I do not eat fat with malarone. It still works.

--------------------
Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again!

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annxyzz
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hadlyme : May I RESPECTFULLY say that we do not really know that the ABX "are working " until months or maybe a year after we discontinue them .

It may be that some people feel better after taking them . And there are a few people who TRULY recover. Unfortunately , it is a fact and not my opinion that most people relapse when they the ABX are removed . That is why so many doctors will not use them very long and that is the stated opinion of many of the hallowed "lyme experts " so many people here quote .

Not many people with a chronic illness can work full time and manage a fitness routine . Sounds like you function like a healthy person!

Blessings to each seeker here .

[ 06-26-2012, 01:18 AM: Message edited by: annxyzz ]

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annxyzz

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annxyzz
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hadlyme : I have read Dr F's interviews . He is repeatedly asked how to get rid of the organism.
He states that he has not found a way to eradicate it . His patients seem to feel better with a low fat diet , but the organism is not eradicated by anything he has tried on it , including ABX . That is what I read more than once .

I concluded he has identified an organism , tried a lot of drugs against it , and CONJECTURES that it helps to lower fat intake .
I do hope he finds more specifics that will shed light on its effect with chronic / autoimmune illness .

--------------------
annxyzz

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annxyzz
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Emla : Who is Matt Stone ? What ideas has he shared that appear to be making you feel you are improving ?

I would like toknow also , if possible , what improvements you are seeing- particularly related to fatigue.

Thank you for sharing !

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annxyzz

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annxyzz
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Nefferdun : I find your personal experience fascinating . Same with Gael (GLM ) who took ABX for 4 YEARS and did not improve . When she quit them and started salt / C and began treating what she believed may be parasites , she improved markedly .

I also am fascinated by Dr Eva Sapi's study of ticks that are infected with filaria , a parasite , and the fact that mosquitoes studied often carry parasite bacteria .

I also read ( who knows if this is "vetted " ) that a study was done that showed 66 % of CFS patients were infected with a PARASITE - lungworm. The symptoms are quite similar to babesia as they were described . I know the CFS study was a real scientific one with "controls " bur do not know if the lungworm/ cfs patients have improved with treatment . If anyone knows the answer, I hope they will share here .

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annxyzz

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emla999/Lyme
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Annxyzz,

Matt Stone is a guy that has a blog called "180 Degree Health". And he has a rather different view on what he belives is the underlying cause of many chronic health problems. Actually, many of Matt's views and suggestions are contradictory to what you will read here. To Matt, body temperature, metabolism and thus your eating and water drinking habits play a huge role in the development of chronic health problems. *** Matt was where I first learned about the usefulness of using a refractometer and a conductivity meter when it comes to trying to determine how much salt, water and sugar/carbs we should be ingesting.


A few links describing some of Matt's view:

On eating more salt

http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2012/2/2/reader-mail-fluids-lowering-body-temperature.html


On water drinking

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-rXiUDGHJU


http://www.cheeseslave.com/if-you-hate-matt-stone-dont-read-this-post/
http://180degreehealth.com/2011/07/hypoglycemia-%e2%80%93-it%e2%80%99s-not-all-in-your-head-it%e2%80%99s-all-in-your-urine

http://180degreehealth.com/2012/01/diet-recovery


Unfortunately, it's hard to find all of Matt's suggestions and views on his blog unless you are prepared to read every post and ever comment in the comment section for the past couple of years. Though, his ebooks, probably have alot of that info in them.


Now, I first learned of Matt's views on health via Russell Fariss's yahoo group, "Infection-Cortisol".


http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/infection-cortisol/


At that time Matt seemed to be researching the role that chronic infections played on the development of chronic health problems but eventually Matt seemed to come to the conclusion that your body temperature and metabolism played an important role on whether or not your body suffered ill effects from chronic infections such as Lyme Disease. So, to him if you correct your body temperature and metabolism then your body will function normally again and then your body will be able to better cope with those chronic infections and your symptoms may lessen or go away completely. So, high titer levels of various pathogens may actually be a side effect and not the direct cause of many of the chronic health ailments that some people are attributing to being caused by chronic infections.


And for me personally, after utilizing many of Matt's suggestions I have also come to believe this may be the case for some people.


.

[ 06-26-2012, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: emla999/Lyme ]

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hadlyme
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May I RESPECTFULLY disagree with you Annx.

I was in remission and feeling Great for 9 yrs after my first go round with abx (for 2yrs worth).

We will NEVER eradicate ANY of these diseases. Do you really realize that? Why pick on the fry bug saying it can not be rid of? Lyme, babs,bart.. will NEVER be out of anyone's system.

WE CAN put things into remission. And to help that along, abx is absolutely needed. Why are you so down on abx and this eradicated thing anyway?

Yes, I'm as 'healthy' as I am because of abx and antimalaria meds. I will keep myself in a remission state with those drugs if I want to live a normal life. I have no problem with that.

If you get into any info on F labs or the dr. you will find he is NOT a lyme dr. He is with the ILADS, but his focus is Chronic Diseases. That is ALS, MS, CFS, Parkinsons, Vector Borne diseases...Austim, you name it. He is trying to figure out what triggers autoimmune. He has large grants right now to study ALS and his bug.

I was one of his tests to see what my body temp was for months. I would take my temp every morning before getting out of bed. Then we did Armour and Ioderal and did the same temp reading for months.

This disease from a vector can and will screw up all our body parts if left untreated.

Keeping it maintained, one can lead a pretty normal life. If you find a dr. that says he can get rid of any of these vector diseases, then I have some ocean front property in MT that I'd like to sell you.

My opinion... I'm not a dr. nor a scientist. I do not have a medical degree. I will leave the scientific answers to those that do.

--------------------
Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again!

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baileypup
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We all have bacteria or cancer cells that can live harmoniously in our bodies. It's when they get out of balance that we have a problem.

So, it makes sense that we will never eradicate these bugs, but learn to boost our immune system and live healthy, balanced lives.

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canefan17
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Going on a low fat diet for us skinny guys/gals with CNS/Brain deterioration is very risky imo.

I don't have to tell you guys how important fats and cholesterol are for the brain, nerves, myelin sheath, etc etc.

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hadlyme
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To clarify, it's not a diet. It's a way of eating. Healthy, whole foods, lower fat grams.

And with this protozoan, fats and cholesterol are just one thing that will help make it thrive.

So, important to what we're used to thinking for our bodies, and newly important to how we're finding out it doesn't help us.

But, please, everyone needs to do what is best for their bodies. We know we all react differently to any of this. Our brains have to comprehend and be on board if we do anything differently.

--------------------
Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again!

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Catgirl
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I can't help but wonder (I used to be vegan) if I had kept up with my diet, but made it low fat like Dr. F. recommends, cut way back on sugar and gluten, added in some light weights like Burrascano suggests, and incorporated the salt/c protocol what shape I would be in today.

I can't wait to talk to my doc about this bug.

--------------------
--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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Haley
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Emla- I'm fascinated by the stuff you are posting. My first clue as to why I might need more salt was how much better I felt after taking liquid minerals. This was confirmed by certain blood tests.

I don't have time to read the entire article on how much water to drink. How many glasses per a day does he recommend?

This is his bold statement:

Drinking the standard amount of water recommended to the masses can literally ruin ones life physically and emotionally. This is not overly sensationalized shock talk. This is really happening. And few ever connect the water dots to their mediocre health, crappy mood, and unstable mental state.

A note on Dr. F. - I am always following what Dr. F says as he is unique in the sense that he is also a microbiologist and he is looking at his patients blood under the microscope. LLMDs do not do this.

Also - frankly, I think his research on low fat may have stemmed from prior research (just a guess). There is one bacteria that can not survive without cholosterol. Of course I don't remember what it is [Wink]

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MichaelTampa
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Count me as someone who herxed more on this "diet" than any other treatment I've had to date, so much so I had to back off and slowly go at it.

Still, I really think for most this will, at best, be a temporary diet. I just don't think one can be healthy long-term such little fat. Many many whole foods need to be excluded to reach this low level of fat.

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canefan17
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The more malnourished the individual the more he/she will eat/drink.
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emla999/Lyme
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Haley,

Matt Stone's water intake reccommendations are very individualized. But basically if the color of your urine is crystal clear then this could indicate that you are drinking too much water. Though, if you are taking supplements and/or medication then it can be difficult to determine what the true color of your urine is. Also, if you are having to urinate more than once in a 2-3 hour time period then this could also be an indication that you are drinking too many fluids.


Matt has also suggested that you use a refractometer to determine whether or not you are ingesting too much water/fluids. The refractometer will measure the "specific gravity" of your urine and this coresponds to your body's hydration status. The refractometer is very easy to use and it only takes a few minutes to measure your urine with and you can get basic refractometer for around $30.00 on ebay.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-0-32-ATC-Brix-Refractometer-Wine-Beer-CNC-Sugar-/390202796300?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ad9e6290c


In my opinion a refractometer is nearly as useful as a thermometer.


And by the way, some common symptoms over being overhydrated are, frequent urination, headaches, electrolyte/ mineral imbalances such as hyponatremia, insomnia, personality changes, cold hands and feet, dizziness and low antidiuretic hormone production (ADH).


Some more videos where Matt Stone discusses the side effects of drinking too much water.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqkYnq8-sU0&feature=relmfu

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/undergroundwellness/2012/02/22/the-dangers-of-our-water-obsession-with-guest-matt-stone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-rXiUDGHJU


Also, since beverages such as soft drinks, coffee, tea, fruit, beer, vegeatableand fruit juice all contain alot of water in them and since regular drinking water is so easily available to most people in this country nowadays I can't help but wonder how much water/fluids do people of today ingest as compared to people that were living 100 - 150 years ago?


I am guessing that modern people probably consume more water/fluids than people used to..... and possibly alot more. Plus people didn't have air conditioners back then and they lived and worked outdoors alot so they probably sweated out alot of the water that they did drink.


So, are modern humans fluid intake contributing to the development of chronic health problems??


.

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surprise
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I thought about low fat today, but ate a GF protein bar
(fat)
craved sun butter (fat) so ate some,
went to make organic popcorn,
realized I had put organic coconut oil 1/4 inch thick on bottom of the pan.
Having grass fed chicken for dinner.

I guess my point is, I am very thin, and my body wants these things.

But, like when I have yeast overgrowth, my body (the yeast)
crave yeast food.

Hmmm. Food for thought.

--------------------
Lyme positive PCR blood, and
positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011.
low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012.
Update 7/16- After extensive treatments,
doing okay!

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nefferdun
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Most of the processed vegetable fats, including olive oil, are full of omega 6 fatty acids which are inflammatory and not good for you. I think grape seed oil is ok. Flax is good because it is full of omega 3 fatty acids but it tastes terrible and the good stuff is destroyed when you cook with it. Coconut oil is supposed to be good for your brain but when I was pigging out on it, my brain fog did not improve at all.

If you want omega 3's ,eat chia seeds. You can use them to thicken things and as an egg replacement. They have more omega 3 than any other source.

Protomyxzoa multiplies 100 times faster with fat. If you don't have protomyxzoa then you need not worry about eating healthy fats but if you do, then even the good fats are feeding it and killing you.

Protomyxzoa causes dementia. My brain has cleared up since starting the diet and the methyl cycle mutation supplements. Biofilm makes the blood thick which causes pain, including nerve pain. Before the diet my legs were hurting. My pain is gone. No muscle spasms. No headaches.

You don't need to worry about not getting enough good fats and you can get plenty of protein and calories (so you don't lose weight), if you eat whole grains and legumes.

I think it is a mental thing - people do not want to believe this works because it sounds so severe but the results are worth it. I have gotten back to planning a life rather than just struggling to keep it.

It is hard. I just do my best. I believe the other things are equally important - MC supplements, LDN for my thyroid and the stromectol.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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surprise
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I am really happy for you Nefferdun-

chronic fatigue is a core issue here.

Since I am positive, I should at least really try- would love to have your energy level.

--------------------
Lyme positive PCR blood, and
positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011.
low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012.
Update 7/16- After extensive treatments,
doing okay!

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annxyzz
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nefferdun : How much stromectol do you take ? And do you take it every day ? Do you have any idea how long it is safe to take it ?

Have you tried adding some salt / c ? I think I may try that idea. So glad you feel better and are sharing some good news!

--------------------
annxyzz

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Catgirl
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Neff, I hear you about the mental thing. There is one more thing that keeps me from totally embracing it though--yeast. I can't eat very many beans without getting yeast, which is probably why even Doc. Burrascano limits them on his anti candida diet.

I can't eat any other starch other than quinoa. I've tried them all, buckwheat groats, etc. You name it, it gives me yeast. I don't think I'm alone with this either. That is why I am no longer a vegan. It wasn't a choice. It was a necessity in order to survive.

--------------------
--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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sparkle7
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It's really hard to do a yeast free diet when you are a vegan... Even if you cut everything out that causes yeast - there is still enough yeast in the body to create problems. I think it has to do with whether it's overgrowing. I think it becomes pathogenic if it grows out of control...

I have to go back & dig up the links but there is info about it on the internet. I don't know how to get rid of it permanently. Maybe Diflucan? All of the things we have that are pathogenic just overwhelm the body - so, all of these things becaome a problem after a while.

The body needs some balance to be able to fight these things off. We are always fighting something - so, we get depleted & the immune system gets overwhelmed... Parasites, pathogens, heavy metals, yeasts, mold, fungus, chemicals take their toll after a while. Now, we have to worry about radiation from Fukishima... Who knows what chimeras have been released into the public or how to treat them?

How about Amazon Rainforest herbs? Some of them are anti-protozoa.

Diet is very individual. I think people, as they get older, may require less protein. I don't know about fats... It depends on whether one is male, female, childbearing years, elderly, a child... It also may depend on genetics...?

I've followed alot of "theories" about diet that seemed logical in my life - but some of them were way off - which I later found out... It's hard to tell with diet. I guess if someone feels better - it's not a bad thing.

The human body is adaptable. We can survive on alot of things & different concepts of diet. I don't know about chemicals, high fructose corn syrup, hydrogenated oils, or GMOs, though.

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lymeboy
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Diet is a highly controversial subject. There are a lot of different schools of thought. I wonder if they all have their pluses and minuses. For me, meat and veggies with no sugar and low carbs has been a pretty good regimen. Perhaps one day I'll give vegan diet a try. Not sure if changing to vegan would be a good thing for me now, while treating.
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sparkle7
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Yeah, I think you need a good source of protein to heal some of the damage done by pathogens. I agree that meat & veggies are a good diet concept.

I think I need to add some carbs like rice, bread or pasta to have some bulk. I tried a very clean diet (juicing, organic, lot of veggies, etc.) for a while & it didn't seem to make much of a difference. I was spending like 4-5 hours a day on cooking, juicing, shopping, doing dishes... It was too much.

So, it's hard to say if all of this diet stuff really works... Eating alot of junk, prepared foods, etc. isn't the best things to do, either. I know some people who do pretty well on rice, veggies, sardines, eggs, yogurt...

I don't like to live with no ice cream or some treat or coffee. I just like them... It kind of takes the joy out of life if you don't have dessert every so often.

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nefferdun
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That is exactly what I mean about the mental thing. You feel you are going to be deprived so you rationalize it is going to be bad for you and don't even try it.

As for ice cream, you can freeze bananas and berries and blend them in a vita-mix (or some other super blender) with some pomegranate juice for an unbelievable sorbet. If you add plain yogurt (a cheat I do not and then) you have fantastic frozen yogurt.

You just have to re-educate yourself. We have been brain washed to believe meat is good for you, we need meat for protein and the more meat you eat, the stronger you will be. It isn't true. There are olympic athletes that do not eat meat. There are children raised on vegan diets that are brilliant, strong, tall and healthy.

So what it comes down to, how does it make you feel? Could you trade hamburger for real energy, the ability to think clearly and a pain free body? It THAT worth the effort to give it a try?

I am off all abx right now and yeast is not a problem. I believe you will recover faster on low fat vegan and will need less antibiotic support while you are doing it. You will be breaking down the biofilm that is protecting the pathogens. The medications you are taking will be better able to penetrate deeply into the tissues to get the infections. You will be better able to detox.

If you are on abx, Difulcan should control yeast. I like stromectol because it does not cause candida. Eat foods that are low to medium on the glycemic index and you should be fine.

Being off the abx, I can eat a lot of fruit with no problem. I also eat some honey and maple syrup. I just started sprouting wheat and making my own sprouted grain bread. There are a lot of foods I really love on this diet. When I eat something - even a soup - that has sauted vegetables, it tastes greasy.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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MichaelTampa
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Such an interesting topic to me.

If one wanted 2000 calories a day, doing this solely from quinoa, this would provide 33 grams of fat, quite a bit more than the 15 grams. Many fruits has less fat grams per calorie than grains do, so if someone can really handle fruits, this would be possible.

Still, whether this provides the needed fats in the diet long-term, I am skeptical. I did this about 6 weeks before my skin started getting very dry and there were other signals that told me time to get off at that time.

Even then, due to misunderstanding these Dr. F. guidelines, I was targeting 15% of calories from fat, which did end up at about 33 grams a day. I had enormous herx and benefit. So, I want to pass that on for those considering this. Going straight to 15 grams, you may kill so many bugs right away, you might not be ready for that, maybe try slowly, and maybe there is real benefit even if you can't get that low.

Cheers, neff, for going at this. I am curious how long you've been at it and how your skin is doing. I am certainly hoping it works out and looking forward to hearing more over time.

For me, my body seems to be crying out for something in the nature of a juice fast for the coming days. I'll start this weekend and see how long it goes. Not sure how much fruit I'll be able to handle, and therefore energy may be an issue, but something I want to try. I have had many signs my body is struggling recently to detox, so that is mostly the focus. Of course fat will be way down during this process, and I'll see how long I can keep it in the Dr. F. range.

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RC1
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I am on this diet too. I first started with cutting back on fat, then shooting for the 15 grams a day. I did this for a couple of months, then took out the meat.

I was in the middle of treating a big Bart relapse and was herxing Bart at the time I went low fat, so I can't say for sure that I herxed Fry bug. The herx was long and hard, which makes me think that it wasn't Bart alone.

The thing that I know for sure is that when I quit meat I noticed a huge improvement. It started the first night I didn't have meat for dinner.

I read on this board about tick bites and developing meat allergies, so that could be why I has such a noticeable improvement.

I'm pretty open to trying anything that might help, for me it was just an experiment. Turns out it is getting me back to almost normal. Still have some Bart and Babs symptoms and am still treating. The inflammation that I was having is way down.

The diet is not easy but I am adjusting to it. I allow my self a cheat every 2 weeks or so. For me it's gluten free veggie pizza at my favorite pizza joint.

I eat a ton of veggies, beans, lentils, brown rice, and oatmeal for breakfast. No sugar, I use Stevia to sweeten. At first I was eating constantly but now 3 meals and snacks in between.

This got me another 10% if not more. I'm hoping that when I get the Babs and Bart cleaned up I'll be done.

I should also mention that I am doing a pretty rigorous work out routine every other day of power yoga and weight lifting.

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sparkle7
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I was a vegetarian for a long time... Like 20 years maybe. I have eaten "healthy" food since I was a teenager. So, I'm not adverse to cutting out the "standard Western diet" junkfood stuff. I followed alot of so-called health gurus, nutritionists, etc. I read alot about food, cooking, juicing, fasting, herbs, etc. since I was a teenager & I'm 50 now.

What I find is that changes in diet has not cured any of my real health issues. So if I have a cappuchino or a brownie - I don't feel much different then if I make a bender drink with fruit & yogurt. I used to drink juices alot... There's controvercy about that, too - like if the produce is organic or if carrots have too much sugar...

When you add in whether things are washed properly & if they have parasite eggs - it kind of makes me wonder... I know people who eat alot of "junk" & they seem "healthier" than me...

So, who knows if these stict concepts of diet really accomplish anything. I guess you just have to try it & see. I guess you can make a decision after 6 months or so to see if it helps.

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lymeboy
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The more we learn about "junkfood" the more apparent it is that no one should really be eating it.
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surprise
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I don't know, I don't see it here, people I see eating 'junk'

being of seemingly better health. I see them obese.

And sadly, many of them are choosing those foods because of price.

--------------------
Lyme positive PCR blood, and
positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011.
low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012.
Update 7/16- After extensive treatments,
doing okay!

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sparkle7
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Interesting article about this protozoan -

http://www.iadvocatehealth.org/protozoal_infection0.aspx

Marnie - it's not Lyme, it's Protomyxzoa rheumatica.

---

And really, this type of organism we think is a little different than what we are used to dealing with genetically. And it is just a unique organism.

Its a slime forming complex protozoan, trying to become a helminth [parasitic worm], trying to become a worm. And that may suggest why it is really resistant to a variety of different medications.

Its a tough bug. It has a lot of gene sequences that are very, very similar to human. And that is probably the confounding aspect to it. Because it has resiliency of human tissue, and it has similar requirements.

And this is probably an organism that developed over the eons and borrowed genes from its hosts. And, you know, kept some that it liked, and discarded some it didnt like. And of course its got its own genetic information, and its, you know, its progenitor with some ameba, or some protozoan in the past.

But it is a little more complex than say, malaria or babesiosis genetically. Actually it is sort of in-between, again, a helminth and a malarial type organism.

---

Dr. F also says saunas or hot tubs are good...

Might be transmitted by mosquitos & ticks....?

He hasn't looked into herbs at all as per the article. Mainly, low fat diet & abx...

---

more-


B: So are you actually able to eradicate it in people, or is it an indefinite...?

Dr. F: We cannot eradicate it in patients, as far as we know, and we cannot eradicate it completely in the test tube yet with any known agents that could be delivered in therapeutic doses.

Now we have some patients who are feeling very well, who, where by our normal procedure, we cant find evidence of disease, but if we go through a sample and keep looking, and looking and looking we can find some.

Most patients that are ill, with our technology its very easy to detect disease. These patients that are doing much, much better, who are on a low fat diet, were able to find it, though rarely in those patients. So I cannot say that we have eradicated it in any patients.

My patients who do great, who are on a low fat diet, if they start eating a regular American diet again, they relapse. So I have not cured anybody.

---

Just as per my own thoughts - Why not look into more herbal anti-parasite treatments like from the Amazon, China or India? These cultures have been dealing with parasites for centuries.

Another thing - Dr. F was pretty clear of protecting his own intellectual property in this discovery. We live in a capitalistic society - so that's OK but it is kind of limiting. Just my thoughts... I guess he has to proceed in the way that is prescribed by "our" system.

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sparkle7
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Also-

As per junk food... Maybe older people had a better start with foods that were purer (less agri-biz chemicals) or had more nutrients (the soil wasn't as depleted 50 years ago)...?

If young people start off eatin alot of junk stuff - it's just going to go downhill for them in the future. I saw alot of really obese people when I lived in the south. I can see that these foods are cheaper & people are stuffing themselves with it. I agree with you, suprise.

I'm just saying - be moderate & try to be healthy... I have come across some food faschists in my time. The guidelines change & we do need some perks now & then. Sometimes, a brownie & a cappuchino can really make a person's day.

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Marnie
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Before attempting a very restrictive diet PLEASE do your "homework" and evaluate carefully the pros and cons...know the benefits as well as the dangers.

"While the American Heart Association recommends 25 percent to 35 percent of your daily calories come from fat, on the McDougall diet, less than 10 percent of your daily caloric intake is fat.

You should speak to your health-care provider about the benefits of monounsaturated fats and Omega-3 fatty acids
before choosing the McDougall diet."

http://www.livestrong.com/article/500906-dangers-of-the-mcdougall-diet/

http://www.theveganrd.com/2010/03/fat-in-vegan-diets-how-low-should-you-go.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raw_veganism scroll down to research

http://paleozonenutrition.com/2011/03/26/why-i-dont-recommend-a-low-fat-raw-vegan-diet/

http://butterbeliever.com/2011/11/02/did-a-dangerously-low-fat-diet-cause-steve-jobs-cancer-to-spread-uncontrollably/

The last one is really interesting...re: Steve Jobs.

BTW...DNA which is also in biofilms is made up of amino acids. Any food that has protein contains amino acids i.e., Beans , legumes, grains, nuts, seeds...and the carbs and sugars...in biofilms and in a veg. diet too.

Dr.F found a new pathogen? Has this been confirmed by other microbiologists? I can't find any links other than those tied to him. One would think the discovery of a new pathogen would make MAJOR news.

The association of pathogens with disease can be a complex and controversial process,

in some cases requiring decades or even centuries to achieve. Wikipedia.

Dr.F seems to be taking a giant leap.

trfogey's comments here makes me very...leary:

http://www.alsforums.com/forum/als-research-news/16782-fry-lab-identifies-new-als-bug.html

Please don't shoot me for being skeptical.

[ 06-29-2012, 08:36 AM: Message edited by: Marnie ]

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RC1
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Marnie, you would think discovering a new pathogen would make major news, but it won't. It won't because mainstream medicine is very slow to accept anything new, or different.

It will make major news when a drug company discovers a "treatment" for it.

The earth was flat for a very long time.

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emla999/Lyme
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Since eating alot of polyunsaturated Omega 6 fats is generally considered to be bad for your health. Could some of the health benefits of Dr. F's lowfat diet primarily or at least in part be due to the overall lower consumption of the omega 6 fatty acids?


Has Dr. F had his patients try to just lower their consumption of the omega 6 fatty acids but eat the same amont of other types of fats such as the omega 3's and saturated fats?


Or does he think that all types of fats should be minimized?


.

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emla999/Lyme
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Marnie,

That link about Steve Jobs eating a Desn Ornish, low fat diet to treat his cancer was rather interesting to me because a scientist at Boston College seems to think the opposite.


Dr. Seyfried's research seems to indicate that eating a low caloried ketogenic (very high fat/low carb) diet can be helpful in treating cancer.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17313687


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21794124


https://www2.bc.edu/~seyfridt/braincancer.html


.

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emla999/Lyme
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Lyme and other pathogens and possiblly even Dr. F's FL1953 have been considered by some to play a role in the development of neurological diseases such as Alzheimer disease, Parkinson disease, MS and etc. If this is the case, then maybe some people would benefit from eating a diet that was high in fat rather than eatingf a diet that was low in fat. Though the type of fat ingested may be important because omega 6's seem to be bad news.


The ketogenic diet as a treatment paradigm for diverse neurological disorders.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22509165


***A ketogenic diet is a very high fat type of diet.


.

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nefferdun
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Protomyxzoa thrives on fat and multiplies 100 times faster. This particular disease is best treated with a low fat vegan diet. That does not mean there are not conditions that do well with fat. John Hopkins uses a very high fat diet to treat children with seizures and one third of the kids go into remission. They only stay on the diet 3 years.

Then there is Lorenzo's oil for children with a genetic birth defect that kills them. The oil prevents the damage.

But the most responsive treatment for protomyxzoa is low fat vegan diet. I feel so much better.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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sparkle7
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Thanks Marnie - interesting about Steve Jobs... so smart but no common sense.

---
http://www.iadvocatehealth.org/protozoal_infection0.aspx

excerpt-

Braman: And has the, what you called protomyxoa, is that an internal name or has this been officially recognized in some standard process as a new bug?

Fry: That is a, we think it is at least a new genus. Its maybe a higher order, and we can find nothing similar to it that is close enough genetically, so actually that is the name we developed. It was a scientific name we developed or came up with.

Protomyxoa is Greek for slime forming protozoan. And we call it protomyxoa rheumatica because we think it is associated with the autoimmune or rheumatic disorders. We have not submitted our DNA database, or our DNA map to the international registry for IP [intellectual property] reasons.

We are a private diagnostic laboratory; this is our technology, and we just havent done that yet. We are protecting our trade secrets and technology. Eventually this will get out; thats our plan, thats our intention. We plan to partner with one of the major institutions for validation. It just takes time and money.

Braman: So how far away do you think you are from this hitting mainstream knowledge and use?

Fry: Well, one of the problems is publications. We have a very small publication. We presented this information at the 2009 Biofilm Meetings. And we had no problem getting our abstract accepted. Weve submitted this article really in fuller form to four mainstream peer-review neurology journalsthis is a study in ALS; that is one of our main interests.

And they have declined to review it, or theyve rejected it. And one of my colleagues is the former editor of one of these journals, the former president of one of the national societies, he says, Look, this is too political, too new, really a radical concept. And actually the CCVI information showing obstructions in MS patients is now considered a very radical concept.

So it is just going to take time, and we realize that. So now we are looking at lesser journals, reconstructing that small paper to get that out. And of course, larger studies we have on the books, we are trying to get IRB [institutional review board a system for ensuring the ethical guidelines are followed in medical research] approval for a number of studies right now. And that takes time and money.

But we just keep plugging away at it. We are almost done, we are using one of the larger IRBs, institutional IRBs available for groups like ours. And we have a consultant with them, and we are designing a study, and it is pretty much, its almost done, it has some rough edges to clean up.

Then weve got to pursue additional funding to make that project happen. But that is in collaboration with two neurologists in the Phoenix metropolitan area.

Braman: So you are getting some uptake in the traditional system?

Fry: Sure, yeah, and I have some of my colleagues that are patient, theyre open-minded. And, you know, when you show someone one these pictures, that we get from some of these patients, its really pretty amazing. Its hard to believe its there, it is hard to believe these patients are alive with that kind of infection.

But if you understand the underlying disease process, you can understand why they are still alive with a disease like this. They are not well, they dont feel very good, but, you know, they are able to stay alive. And we believe this is chronic inflammatory disease.

Braman: So have you sequenced the DNA of this organism yet?

Fry: Actually weve mapped the genome and filed an IP on that, but weve mapped the genome, yes. And that is how we know where we can place it phylogenetically, and know it is new, and know it is unique.

Braman: Interesting. So if you have gotten to the step of actually sequencing the whole genome, you know you are dealing with an actual bug. Not just in pictures, as impressing as that might be. But if you have the DNA in hand, and it is consistent, and it is mapped, then you know you have a critter, if you will....

Fry: Right, and so really the gold standard in microbiology today is the molecular signature, well, we have that now. And not only do we just have a signature for a portion of the genome, we have the entire genome mapped. At least, an isolate from one patient. And with that information we know it is unique, its not like anything else.

Actually it is probably close to a couple other organisms, but not close enough to say that its probably in the same order, same phylum, but not the same order. And really, this type of organism we think is a little different than what we are used to dealing with genetically.

And it is just a unique organism. Its a slime forming complex protozoan, trying to become a helminth [parasitic worm], trying to become a worm. And that may suggest why it is really resistant to a variety of different medications.

Its a tough bug. It has a lot of gene sequences that are very, very similar to human. And that is probably the confounding aspect to it. Because it has resiliency of human tissue, and it has similar requirements.

And this is probably an organism that developed over the eons and borrowed genes from its hosts. And, you know, kept some that it liked, and discarded some it didnt like. And of course its got its own genetic information, and its, you know, its progenitor with some ameba, or some protozoan in the past.

But it is a little more complex than say, malaria or babesiosis genetically. Actually it is sort of in-between, again, a helminth and a malarial type organism.

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sparkle7
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PS - BTW - I just reposted Catgirl's original link...
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sparkle7
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Also - most MDs aren't well versed in nutrition. It's a really small part of their training. Just a thought...
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Marnie
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Boy...you can say that again. They have so much to learn in really a short time.

I remember reading years ago about a MD - woman - who was dx'd with cancer and she decided to get out in the sun, exercise, eat healthy - very, think positive, pray, and NOT go the chemo. route...and she recovered.

P.S. VERY good thought about the omega 6's...yea our diet is way too skewed (sp?) to those. Good insight!

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sparkle7
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Get this...

"And it is just a unique organism. Its a slime forming complex protozoan, trying to become a helminth [parasitic worm], trying to become a worm. And that may suggest why it is really resistant to a variety of different medications."

---

I'd say time for some serious anti-parasite protocols.

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annxyzz
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sparkle, I agree with you about researching chinese / indian herbs for parasites . What is amazing is how many there are . You are right , they have dealt with paraites forever and we have dismissed them as a possibility of causing chronic illness . I do not know much at all, but I would not be surprised if autoimmune diseases
prove to be raging , untreated infections, bacteria or parasitical or fungal.

It is hard to believe that the immune system just wakes up one day and decides to destroy the tissue and organs in the body it encompasses .

--------------------
annxyzz

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sparkle7
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For some reason, parasites get such odd responses from doctors & people in general. I don't know why they have been overlooked for so long.

People think I'm psychotic if I tell them I have parasites. What's up with that?

I'm doing an anti-parasite protocol now. It's making me ill but in some ways I'm also feeling better. I guess it never ends...

I ordered some A-P from Rain-tree. It has some interesting ingredients. I'm waiting for that to arrive.

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lost11
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Sparkle, Have you tried the cowden protocol for parasites and lyme? I swear its a big part of what got me well. I've heard many with good results using his products. Natural stuff too. :-)
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Wallace
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Hi Brussels long time no see!


I think he is working along the right lines. Bill Clinton is on this diet and he looks great on it. I have been on this 10 per cent fat vegan diet for the last 3 years and it hasnt done much for me personally so I am just started a blood th...inning version of this diet where I also eat a lot of foods high in Vit C. E.g I eat a lot of lemons and lemon juice! For the first time I seem to be experiencing what he mentions, getting a herx from your diet. Of course this may just be a coincidence!!! Time will tell! I have always thought diet is key, we have to keep looking!


The diet is not that difficult!!! If B Clinton can do it????

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Marnie
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I'm for this ;-)

After all, Pepsi, potato chips and M&Ms is technically a vegetarian diet.

(Me...obviously they are talking about Pepsi Throwback.)

http://www.gsmcweb.com/?p=40

If a veg. diet = More Omega 6s...perhaps the benefit involves "methyl"?

"On the other hand, plant-based vegetarian diets can deliver excessive amounts of omega-6 fatty acids,

another class of essential fatty acids found in vegetable oils made from corn, soybeans and grape seeds, whole-grain breads and cereals."

http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/products/vegetarian-diet.php


Regarding the balance between the fatty acids...omega 3 and omega 6 (our typical American diet is way to skewed towards omega 6s):

n−6 fatty acids (popularly referred to as ω−6 fatty acids or omega-6 fatty acids) are a family of unsaturated fatty acids that have in common a final carboncarbon double bond in the n−6 position, that is, the sixth bond, counting from

***the methyl end.***

The biological effects of the n−6 fatty acids are largely mediated by their conversion to n-6 eicosanoids that bind to diverse receptors found in every tissue of the body.

The conversion of tissue arachidonic acid (20:4n-6) to n-6 prostaglandin and n-6 leukotriene hormones

provides many targets for pharmaceutical drug development and treatment to

diminish excessive n-6 actions

in atherosclerosis, asthma, arthritis, vascular disease, thrombosis, immune-inflammatory processes, and tumor proliferation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-6_fatty_acid

Maybe the real key is the fact that those on that diet start to burn their own fat -> ketones i.e., ketogenic diet...which can be hard on the kidneys.

After all, "they" continue to tell us all to exercise and lose weight to be healthier.

A Mediterranean diet is also good.

Oh...raspberries:

http://www.emaxhealth.com/8782/what-evidence-supports-fat-burning-raspberry-ketone-claims

http://www.iwantketone.com/ (vegetarian friendly)

Bb needs glucose (for sure)but in a jam, WE can substitute fat burning -> ketones to make ATP.

A very specific ketone called BHB (made in our liver - if healthy) can cross the blood brain barrier and enter the cells' citric acid cycle
-> more ATP...our "energy" carrier.

Here are two situations where raising ketones (a a result of fat burning) might not be a good idea:

The reducing diet causing ketosis never rises to levels that might be dangerous except in the following conditions:

severe, uncontrolled diabetes;

third trimester pregnancy,

alcholism (the problem in the alcoholic is complicated and not fully understood).

In alcoholism, ketosis is readily reversed with glucose or insulin.

In any case, as I caution repeatedly, those who have serious medical disorders,

particularly alcoholism and ***diabetes,***

should diet

only under a personal physician's supervision."

http://lowcarblisa.tripod.com/thescarsdalemedicaldiet/id21.html

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sparkle7
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Yes, I tried the Cowden herbs - for about 6-9 months. I don't think I really have/had Lyme after going through alot of thinking about it. I think I have a parasite problem. The herbs that are anti-parasite effected me the most like Quinine, Enula & Cumanda. Not a cure for me, though.

I suppose it's good to give the low fat diet a try. I was a vegetarian & substituted soy for most of the protein. Later, I read that soy can leach mgnesium out of the body & it has excessive estrogens. I don't think it's that healthy to eat alot of soy products... Back then, soy was the big savior to vegetarians who wanted to avoid meat.

Some of these diets may be fads or not based on extended research. I would advise to be cautious when experimenting with diet. The body is pretty adaptable but you don't want to starve yourself for specific nutrients & wind up in a wosre place.

It's not easy to tell if you are subclinically missing out on an important nutrient.

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nefferdun
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This diet is not so restrictive of fats that anyone needs to worry it is unhealthy or dangerous. You are primarily eliminating omega 6 fatty acids which are inflammatory. All the animal fats and most vegetable oils (except flax) are primarily omega 6. To follow this diet you are not using typical salad dressings, mayonnaise, butter or margarine on vegetables or sauting in fat.

There are a lot of protein rich foods that have little or no fat such as rice and beans. You can make many different kinds of soup without adding fat - chili, vegetable, curry etc. You can also make loaves with beans and rice and onion etc that have no fat.

Although wheat has arginine, bread has very little fat. You can even make deserts, like brownies using black beans instead of fat.
I use some egg whites which have no fat. Here is a recipe;

http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/kims-midnight-brownies-recipe

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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emla999/Lyme
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Nefferdun said:

quote:
All the animal fats and most vegetable oils (except flax) are primarily omega 6.
You may have just miss typed that statement but just to clarify, animal fats are not primarily Omega 6's. Actually, the Omega 6 content of beef, lamb, many types of fish/seafood and wild game are actually very low in Omega 6's. Though, some animal fats such as those that come from pork and chicken can be quite high in Omega 6's but all animal fat is not high in Omega 6's.


On the link down bellow there is a chart that lists the Omega 6 content of many types of food and as you can see, many types animal derived fats/foods are actually very low in Omega 6 fatty acids.


http://180degreehealth.com/2010/02/omega-6-content-of-common-foods


.

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MichaelTampa
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I spoke with my acupuncturist on this topic. She really felt this diet was far below the level of fat we need in the diet. I guess we can classify fats as inflamatory and antiinflamatory if we want to, but is off the topic a little that every cell in our body needs to have fat in it.

The brain and nerves especially need more fat, and their function is particularly important, if I can say that without denigrating the importance of all the other body parts.

Now, she also said, most people have some fat stores, and those who are substantially overweight have lots of this, and the body can take from those fat stores as needed. For those like myself who most people would characterize as very skinny, I still have fat stores but not very much, and I would/will get to a state soon enough where my body would be relying on my diet to serve my fat needs.

After this conversation, I remembered something I read somewhere advising people against eating late at night, even carbs, because the body would digest it and store it as fat. Of course, if that's true, perhaps there are ways like that where one could get fat without eating it. I'm a little skeptical on that statement, its source was not one I remember trusting, but I'll look more into that thought over time.

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nefferdun
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All I can say is, I have not felt this good in a LONG TIME. Does anyone want to argue this diet is actually making me worse and I just don't know it? My brain functions much better. I think more clearly. I remember better.

I have more energy, I am more motivated to do things, I am planning my life again. My pain is gone. I do not have nerve problems - no twitching, no headaches, no burning.

I look better. I feel better. I can work long hours and not feel exhausted. I can run up the stairs instead of dragging myself up them, gasping for breath at the top. I am riding my horse almost every day as well as mucking the barn again, grooming everyone and mowing acres of grass.

I just finished a two hour trail ride and I have the afternoon planned with more things to get done. Check back on my posts from three months ago and you will see how much progress I have made.

So if you have not tried this diet, stop knocking it. Just stay sick and tell yourself you need fat for your already demented mind and twitching, exhausted body.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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sparkle7
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Nefferdun - do you think it could be the ivermectin rather than the diet? I recall that you said you were taking stromectol which is ivermectin.

I felt almost normal for a couple of months when I was taking anti-parasitic herbs. I should have kept up with them but I stopped since I thought I was "better".

After a year of wracking my brain - I realized that the parasites came back & that's why my health declined again.

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MichaelTampa
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quote:
Originally posted by nefferdun:
All I can say is, I have not felt this good in a LONG TIME. Does anyone want to argue this diet is actually making me worse and I just don't know it? My brain functions much better. I think more clearly. I remember better.

I have more energy, I am more motivated to do things, I am planning my life again. My pain is gone. I do not have nerve problems - no twitching, no headaches, no burning.

I look better. I feel better. I can work long hours and not feel exhausted. I can run up the stairs instead of dragging myself up them, gasping for breath at the top. I am riding my horse almost every day as well as mucking the barn again, grooming everyone and mowing acres of grass.

I just finished a two hour trail ride and I have the afternoon planned with more things to get done. Check back on my posts from three months ago and you will see how much progress I have made.

So if you have not tried this diet, stop knocking it. Just stay sick and tell yourself you need fat for your already demented mind and twitching, exhausted body.

neff - I do not want to argue that it is making you worse AT THIS TIME. I do "follow"/remember your situation some, I imagine partly because of the vegetarianism we have in common. I've been on this diet as well (although was more 30-35gms fat/day rather than 15gms/day). I was surprised looking back at my records, it was way back in May/June last year. I benefited from it enormously as well.

After about 6-8 weeks, though, I did encounter problems on it and stop. How much benefit I retained from it over this time, really, I don't know. My body is asking for it again and I started it again this past weekend. For how long, we will see. I did lose track of it over this past year, and likely could have got back on it sooner than now, but just was caught up in some other things.

I do have concern about using it long-term, both for you and me. I don't know your status of fat stores, nor do I know how precisely you are following the diet. Are you counting grams of fat in the beans/grains and other foods, or just counting "extra fat" in any nuts/seeds/oils/meats/eggs you may end up eating? What range of fat in total do you think you're really in? All of that would be interesting/helpful information as I continue to evaluate how healthful/realistic it is long-term, as I'll be assessing how things go for me as well as any others who report.

I must say, while it's great to hear how night-and-day your results are on my diet, I see improvement but not quite that dramatic. Fatigue is still pretty apparent (although it is early, I don't remember details of last time that well any more).

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Catgirl
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaelTampa:
...I was targeting 15% of calories from fat, which did end up at about 33 grams a day. I had enormous herx and benefit. So, I want to pass that on for those considering this. Going straight to 15 grams, you may kill so many bugs right away, you might not be ready for that, maybe try slowly, and maybe there is real benefit even if you can't get that low.

This sounds like a happy medium for me (yeast issues). Thanks Michael!

It would be fascinating to see Dr. F.'s work on this. I wonder how he got to 15 grams per day (maybe McDougall's diet)?

--------------------
--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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sparkle7
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re: So if you have not tried this diet, stop knocking it. Just stay sick and tell yourself you need fat for your already demented mind and twitching, exhausted body.

---

Not everyone may have the "Fry bug"... Different parasites have different food or energy sources.

---

Also, nefferdun - do you think the methylation protocol has anything to do with your improvement? If you are doing several things - how do you know for sure it's the low fat diet?

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sparkle7
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FYI -

http://betterhealthguy.com/joomla/blog/257-bioresource-2012-conference

excerpt from Dr. AC - MD

In some cases, it has been observed that low levels of Babesia duncani antibodies with a negative FISH could be an indicator for Protomyxzoa rheumatica.

FL1953 (Protomyxzoa rheumatic) can be found in red blood cells on a smear done by Fry Labs. May appear as hypochromic red blood cells.

Symptoms of FL1953 are similar to Babesia. Symptoms include cold hands and feet, headache behind the eyes, scalp sores, sinus congestion, notable teeth pain, heart palpitations, shortness of breath, dry cough, abdominal pain, nausea, IBS, insomnia, sweats, bladder pain, muscle pain, twitching, profound fatigue, exercise intolerance, insomnia, brain fog, poor balance, anxiety, OCD, irritability, hypercoagulation.

Off and on hoarseness can be a symptom of FL1953.

Possible treatment options for FL1953 include Alinia, Artemisinin, Albenza, Ivermectin, Beyond Balance MC-BAB-2, Byron White A-BAB, Cryptolepis, Byron White A-BART, Supreme Nutrition Golden Thread Supreme, macrolide antibiotics.

ALWAYS uses enzymes, enzymes, enzymes and usually restorative fats, while reducing dietary fats. DRAINAGE, DRAINAGE, DRAINAGE!

May use Allergy Research or Doctors Best Artemisinin. May used a pulsed anti-parasitic (Alinia, Artemisinin, Albenza, Ivermectin) combined with an herbal remedy.

Very commonly Golden Thread Supreme.

Enzymes are also used with the anti-parasitic and herbal treatment. Designs for Health Plant Enzyme Digestive Formula seems to be the best. Serrapeptase, Interfase, Boluoke, and others can be helpful. The enzymes are best taken on an empty stomach with drainage remedies.

Out of 103 patients tested for FL1953 with PCR, 78 were positive.

FL1953 herxes can be massive body pain, headache, anxiety, paranoia, hallucination, irritability, twitching, fatigue, joint pain, tooth pain, congestion or sinus pressure, abdominal pain, bladder pain, and increased hypercoagulability.

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sparkle7
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Also- (from same link as above)

Best treatment to date for FL1953 includes: an anti-parasitic, usually Alinia or Artemisinin with Beyond Balance MC-BAB-2, Golden Thread Supreme with multiple enzymes such as Boluoke, Nattokinase, Serrapeptase, Interfase, Interfase Plus, Plant Enzyme Digestive Formula and others along with fats are often needed such as Omega-3s, phosphatidylcholine, phosphatidylserine, Crayhon DHA Supreme, and others. Omega-3s may be needed for a couple of years.

---

So, not all think low fat is the only way. I'm not trying to be a jerk but I like to cross reference the treatments to get a consensus. Like I said - I tried some diet concepts in the past - & they turned out to be based on one "opinion"...

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JRWagner
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Suggestion: everyone read "The Spectrum " by Dr. Dean Ornish, and "Reversing Heart Disease" by Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn of the Cleveland Clinic (number one heart disease hospital.
Peace,love, and Wellness,
JW

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Wallace
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yep good reads along with john robbins work
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nefferdun
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I don't count fat in beans or rice but I do count it in oatmeal. I don't eat seeds or nuts. I do miss them terribly. I am not strict vegan because I eat some egg whites and cheese once in awhile. I count the fat when I do.

For instance the package of shredded mozzarella cheese says 1/3 cup has 6 grams of fat. I will make a veggie pizza with a bit of cheese or melt some over a grilled portabello mushroom. I have been making my own sprouted grain bread and it has 2 TB oil per loaf but one TB is flax oil.

Stromectol has helped a lot. I did two weeks of horse wormed in early April. Then I did 4 days of chloroquine which seemed to make my thyroid hyper. I was really concerned at this time that I was "done for". I decided to give LDN another try and it settled my thyroid down. Now it seems normal and I am off meds for it.

I got my methyl cycle test results around the end of May and tweaked the supplements. I sent my results to heartfixer and am still waiting for the results.

I restarted stomectol the beginning of June. I was feeling a lot better at that time but had small amounts of pain that came and went. The stromectol got me over the top.

The diet is hard. I went to a wonderful whole foods grocery today where they have great prepared food - most of which I cannot eat because of the added fat. Even the veggie soup has fat floating on top. Sometimes it drives me nuts (no pun intended). I just do the best I can.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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sparkle7
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Like I said - I'm not trying to be a jerk... it just seems that you may feel better, nefferdun, due to the anti-parasite meds & not necessarily the low fat diet. Is there a way you can tell the difference?

After 2 years of doing the anti-parasite herbs - one day I woke up & I felt about 85% better after over 15 years of being ill. It took longer since I was really infected & I used only herbs, not drugs.

It's really hard to tell which thing is affecting what when one is on multiple protocols. I'm not against doing whatever it takes but changing diet can be a big inconvenience. At one point, I was spending about 5 hours a day preparing food. After about 6 months, I realized that I didn't feel much better.

For me, the anti-parasite treatment was what has made the biggest difference. I have not been tested for the Fry bug & I have not done a low fat diet. I would have to see more evidence that it's really the thing that is helping.

The symptoms of FL1953 could fit alot of different diseases or other parasite infections. I don't know how accurate the tests are. Fat consumption is a pretty big deal - especially the "right" fats as opposed to the "wrong" ones over time.

I'm repeating here - I'm not trying to criticize anyone. As a somewhat objective observer - I don't see alot of actual proof that it's what is helping other than what Dr. F says.

Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
faithful777
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Any body looked at Dr. D'Adamo's blood type diet? According to his studies, some people are meant to be vegetarian and some are definitely not. His Geno Type book goes into epigenetics and how adding and eliminating certain foods boost the immune system.

Just another view...

--------------------
Faithful

Just sharing my experience, I am not a doctor.

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MichaelTampa
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I want to concede this blood type diet probably has at least some validity. But, like so many things, taking a principle like that, which may make sense for a "normal healthy person", and trying to apply it someone with lyme disease is going to be a terrible mistake.

Having chronic lyme disease changes what the body needs in so many different ways, including what it needs from diet. Just as one example, maybe a healthy type O person can handle all that disgustingly fatty and acid meat and should just eat big steaks at every meal. BUT, try doing that with chronic lyme disease and you'll be much the sicker for it, blood type notwithstanding.

Posts: 1927 | From se usa | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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