Topic: Garlic cancels out one significant benefit to Berberine
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Dr. - Lyme Disease
"Treatment for insulin resistance is 1000mg niacinamide three times a day with ***500mg of Berberine twice a day.*** The best option for Berberine is BioPure Viressence 2 dropperfuls three times a day.
� Decrease microbial burden and address biofilms. Antimicrobials such as herbs and RX medications, antifungals such as Rizol Gamma, parasites treatments such as the "Modified Simon Yu" protocol, and the Klinghardt Lyme Cocktail. Address biofilms with liposomal solutions, Cistus tea/tincture, Sodium EDTA, *** Freeze-dried garlic*** iodine (for lungs), grapefruit seed extract 10 drops twice daily, silica such as BioSil 10 drops twice daily."
"Berberine down-regulated the activity of STAT1 and STAT4 through the suppression of p38 MAPK and JNK activation, and it controlled the stability of STAT4 through the ubiquitin-proteasome pathway."
If the intention is to lower STAT 1�garlic should be �out� as a suggested supplement, IMO because there is a compound in garlic that induces STAT 1 expression.
The KIND of berberine may make a difference. It is very important to get the right kind which I believe is Berberine chloride/HCL �utilizing the already �open� chloride channels.
GlycoX 250 taken 3 times a day , one half hour before a carbohydrate meal looks to be effective. No carb. cheating (snackies) which would interfere with the effectiveness! Sorry.
Basing dosage on this(looks like a safe amount):
"Berberine, ***300 mg three time a day orally,*** also seems to inhibit complication of abdominal or pelvic radiation, called radiation-induced acute intestinal symptoms (RIAISs)."
Berberine TIMING:
The half-life of berberine in vivo seems to be three to four hours, thus ***suggesting administration three times a day if steady levels are to be achieved.***
Berberine was isolated and used as an herbal drug in China 50 years ago (the drug forms are usually the*** hydrochloride or sulfate; the chloride, as used in the dye, may have the strongest antiseptic action).***
All you have to do is scroll down the first page...you will get the idea.
There is a danger in trying to take too many things.
A huge list of supplements, several different antibiotics/ miscellaneous treatment and other drugs (statins/anti-depressants, etc.) may NOT mix with Berberine.
Berberine works like a statin drug without the side effects. Berberine does have an anti-depressant effect...the list goes on and on.
Go here to see what diseases and infections and neurotransmitters berberine impacts:
Of course...discuss this with your doctor especially if you are already taking meds/supplements.
Too many times I have seen persons on one drug -> side effects -> drug to counter -> another side effect -> another drug...
My mom was on TEN Rxs when she was in her early 80's. When I found out...we got it reduced to a necessary 3.
When she could not tolerate the oral hyperglycemics to control a somewhat elevated glucose level, we found good old cinnamon worked just as well ... without any side effects.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
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- Thanks for all your articles and insights, Marnie. I can't read stuff right away to comment but wanted to say "thanks" for sure. -
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Yeah, I know... I studied the drugs that someone I know was taking & I couldn't believe it. One diuretic in the day time, one that was anti-diuretic in the evening... It was rediculous.
I didn't want to advise because she was on so many drugs & had a difribulator - etc. Once you go down that path, it's hard to cut back.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
That is, IMO, the problem.
TOO MANY abx. taken together in addition to TOO many supplements.
Too many opportunities for one to cancel out the effectiveness of the other.
IF...you ever decide to give berberine chloride a try (GlycoX250 three times a day 15 minutes before a carb. loaded meal and no snacking inbetween...sorry) PLEASE don't do it in conjunction with ANY Rx or ANY supplement.
It works in so many ways (reduces inflammation, has a positive effect on mood, etc.) that you shouldn't need other things.
Do I think berberine chloride is a cure-all?
Yep.
Google these: berberine MS, berberine diabetes, berberine cancer
The list goes on and on because it works in so many helpful ways!
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Marnie, I am just in the beginning of lyme treatment. Based on your prior information, I was thinking about adding berberine to my protocol and cutting out some supplements.
This is probably a question form my LLMD but should I wait to start berberine until I have been on antibiotics for a while?
I also read on a link you gave that berberine and artemisian work great together for parasites. What is your take on this?
I don't have the energy to understand everything you are posting but the information sounds good and hopeful.
On a side note, what is your current physical status? Are you still struggling with chronic infections or are you in remission?
Posts: 538 | From kentucky | Registered: Nov 2011
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Soccermama...I don't have lyme, my sis got it back in 1999. I am healthy.
I've researched nonstop to find a cure for her because all of the traditional treatments did not work...which she tried nonstop for 3 years.
She was misdx'd originally (RA) and was given steroids PRIOR TO abx. = disaster.
Coming from a med. background (OB RN) I didn't know why traditional med (along with a ton of supplements) didn't work...and so I began my research and have well over 4000 MS word files.
I had a lot to learn about Bb!
I would not ADD berberine chloride to any other "protocol".
Bad choice...garlic and berberine do NOT go together. Garlic has a compound in it that induces STAT1 (a cell signal) whereas berberine INHBITS STAT1 and STAT4.
I would have to look very closely at artemesia and see if in any way it would prevent/interfere with the many many ways berberine works.
If they have a synergetic (work together) effect that is good...very good.
One way our body uses folic acid (if we can process it...if we don't have a gene called MTHFR) is to lower homocysteine levels. B6 (if we can process it to PLP/P5P) and B12 (if we can absorb it via "intrinsic factor in our stomach) also lowers dangerous homocysteine.
Homocysteine <-> methionine OR via a chemical in red beets homocysteine -> cysteine.
posted
Marnie, How is your sister doing? Has she improved with all the research you have been doing?
Posts: 538 | From kentucky | Registered: Nov 2011
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Lymeorsomething
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posted
Thanks for all the info you continue to provide, Marnie.
-------------------- "Whatever can go wrong will go wrong." Posts: 2062 | From CT | Registered: Jul 2008
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Catgirl
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Member # 31149
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quote:Originally posted by Marnie: Oh, my!!!...Bb uses iron for "quorum sensing" via a gene called LuxS. It does not use iron to replicate (as many other pathogens do).
Marnie, do you think berberine depletes iron? My iron has been dropping since I started using it.
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Bb uses iron for quorum sensing, but his friends use it for replication.
My sis is not doing well. She has had 6 joints replaced...knees first, then shoulders and now both hips.
Her legs are edematous.
Walking is painful as her feet hurt a lot. (Our feet have a lot of bones.) Her hands are very crippled.
She has lost a lot of her thick curly hair.
She does NOT have any symptoms of neuro lyme perhaps because she is on the highest dosage of Prozac allowed.
She is not on any other Rxs.
She does NOT appear to have any of the typical babesia symptoms...only ongoing lyme symptoms.
She has been dx'd now "autoimmune".
Her vitamin D level is very low and she is supplementing.
She eats very very healthy - extremely so, but is overweight.
She is afraid to try alternative paths...believe me, I've tried to convince her.
But I have to realize and *accept* that it is her life and her decision.
I love her so much. It truly tears me apart to see her suffer.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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Catgirl
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Member # 31149
posted
I'm so sorry to hear this Marnie. There is someone in my family who won't listen either.
No one seems to listen to those of us with lyme (think we're projecting, obsessed or nuts).
I am happy to hear you don't have it. And I'm grateful that you come on this board and help all of us out. Thank you so much.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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sammy
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Member # 13952
posted
Marnie, I am interested in trying berberine but did not realize that it had to be taken alone.
I understand that all things interact to a certain degree. I did not know that berberine had such a negative interaction with so many other substances, even food. Thanks for pointing that out.
I am on antibiotics, they truly help me. If I stop the antibiotics then I will relapse and get terribly sick.
I'm also on some supplements like mag, calcium, D3, curcumin, krill oil, NAC, B complex, GSE, and neem.
In your opinion, would it be a bad idea for me to try berberine. My immunologist says that I will never be able to stop antibiotics because of my immune deficiency, so that is not an option for me even in the future.
Thoughts? I know that you are not a doctor, I'd just like your friendly opinion since you have been researching this subject. I appreciate the time that you have spent reading and learning. You are a help to all of us here.
Posts: 5237 | From here | Registered: Nov 2007
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Marnie
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Member # 773
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I do not believe you have an "immune deficiency".
IMO, your immune system is up and running...in the wrong direction....to the benefit of Bb and detriment to you.
Bb is not unlike some other bad pathogens that need/use our immune response to help them to invade...esp. viruses which count on a histamine response to plow the way for them.
Our own "antibiotics" to Bb i.e.,
our OWN antibodies - specifically targeted -
are damaged to Bb's OspB protein. Documented.
Bb prevented our very first line defense cells from reacting to "his" OspB.
He did so by picking up a P8 protein(along with the SALP 15 protein) in the tick's saliva on his way out. That P8 protein is a mannose (sugar) binding lectin (protein) INHIBITOR.
This stops what is called the lectin pathway. By inhibiting that pathway, our ability to COMPLETELY phagocytosize Bb doesn't happen i.e., we can't completely chop him apart and rid the excess "debris".
Our "memory B" cells (which ultimately happen) have a "bad memory".
And those cells (memory B cells) can stay with us for life.
They can be downregulated, but if Bb is still present...it would be like "starting over".
But now we know how to improve the health of OUR antibody to Bb's OspB protein.
Bb upregulates OspA while in the tick, then OspC on "his" way out, and finally OspB in us:
�showed a more frequent OspB response than OspA during chronic murine infection.
I would not do any supplements OR Rxs WITH berberine without knowing for CERTAIN that there is/are no NEGATIVE interaction/s.
If berberine + "X" can work in synergy...great.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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sammy
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Member # 13952
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Marnie, I appreciate your honesty.
Oh how I wish that I did not have a true immune deficiency! I have been diagnosed with CVID (Common Variable Immune Deficiency). It is a Primary Immune Deficiency, not a secondary immune deficiency caused by infection or something else.
My body makes very little IgG and IgA. I have abnormalities with my B cells and T cells. I also have problems with my phagocytes and complement. Unfortunately my immune system is far from healthy and normal.
During my initial testing my first immunologist discovered that I also did not have immunity to past immunizations. I was given new vaccines in the office and was retested few months later. My body did not respond to those vaccines, I had no immunity.
About 6mo ago I was referred from my local immunologist to my new immunologist at a well renowned teaching hospital. This doctor is the head of the immunology department (including bone marrow and stem cell transplants). My first doctor referred me to her team and she "scooped up" my case. I'm told that this does not happen. They said that she rarely accepts any new patients so she must have thought that my case was challenging and interesting enough.
It's scary to think that I'm sick enough for this head immunologist to take interest in me. Yet I know how terribly sick I am and do I need the help.
I feel sad now, I'm sorry I dumped all this on you. I'm struggling with an opportunistic infection on top of all the Lyme and Co's that I normally deal with. I'm always fighting for my life. It weighs down on me and I don't mean to take it out on others.
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