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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » replication within cystic forms of lyme

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Author Topic: replication within cystic forms of lyme
nan46nan
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is there any replication within the cystic stage of lyme or are the bacteria just in a dormant stage and would not reproduce or increase in number?
Posts: 3 | From Edison, NJ | Registered: Jan 2012  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
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Not sure if a cyst can make another cyst if that is what you mean.

See links to come as they may address that question.

However, I do know that within a cyst, spirochetes can multiply many-fold, over time. Then, when the cyst breaks open, many, hundreds, or thousands of spirochetes can emerge.

So, spirochetes, themselves can multiply within the cystic form.

I don't have a link to where I read that, though I think I saw a microscopic video of that happening.

That's why it's so important to prevent - as much as possible - spirochetes from even going into the cyst form, and also having combination treatment on board that addresses ALL forms at the same time.

Antibiotics that treat spirochetes will not address the cyst form. In fact, a single Rx approach to lyme often causes the spirochetes to go into cyst form, and that can lead to chronic lyme, big time.

Still, that can depends upon the strain of Borrelia. Some are just far easier to treat so when we hear of someone who did do just fine with a simple single approach, they may not have had the tougher strains.

LL author Pamela Weintraub discusses this in the book "Cure Unknown"
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[ 04-08-2013, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Keebler
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Also note that there are more forms of Borrelia b. than even just spirochetes and the cystic form. Details:

http://www.lymeinfo.net/lymefiles.html

LYME DISEASE MEDICAL LITERATURE SUMMARIES

Bottom of page, last THREE links:

1. * Cystic Form of Bb: An Introduction

2. * Cystic Form of Bb & Other Spirochetes: Advanced Lyme Disease: Survival in Adverse Condition

30 page pdf -- page 17: cystic form


3. * Cystic Forms of Spirochetes: A Complete Bibliography, 1905-2010

----------------------------------------

There is good detail about VARIOUS FORMS of BORRELIA b. in the many links here that highlight the work of Alan MacDonald, M.D. (researcher):

http://molecularalzheimer.org/
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Keebler
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Copyright law does prevents full access, however, you may find more about this somewhere else, just use "Advanced Google Search" for the title, etc.

Download PDF (315.4 KB) is $40.00

However, you can see a one-page Fulltext Preview here. Clink onto that preview page and then print. But you will need a powerful magnifying glass to read it.

Neither at the site nor in the print mode was I able to enlarge the type.

www.springerlink.com/content/f203647324701025/

Infection

Volume 35, Number 3 (2007), 206-208, DOI: 10.1007/s15010-007-6105-0

Grapefruit seed extract is a powerful in vitro agent against motile and cystic forms of Borrelia burgdorferi sensu lato.

Brorson O, Brorson SH.

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Grapefruit%20Seed%20Extract%2C%20cystic

Infection. 2007 Jun;35(3):206-8.

Grapefruit seed extract is a powerful in vitro agent against motile and cystic forms of Borrelia burgdorferi sensu lato.

Brorson O, Brorson SH.

--------

One find where we can read quite a bit (thank you to the authors, etc):

http://www.jneuroinflammation.com/content/5/1/40

Journal of Neuroinflammation 2008, 5:40 doi:10.1186/1742-2094-5-40

Persisting atypical and cystic forms of Borrelia burgdorferi and local inflammation in Lyme neuroborreliosis

Judith Miklossy1*, Sandor Kasas2, Anne D Zurn3, Sherman McCall4, Sheng Yu1 and Patrick L McGeer1

2008 Miklossy et al; licensee BioMed Central Ltd.
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Keebler
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http://lymemd.blogspot.com/2011/07/everything-you-thought-you-knew-about.html

LymeMD blog Sunday, July 24, 2011

Everything you thought you knew about cyst busters is wrong
. . . Eva Sapi . . .

Doxycycline worked according to plan. Doxy inhibits protein synthesis - it kills bacteria, including Lyme, by action within the cytoplasm, inhibiting the manufacture of proteins required for the bacteria's survival.

Doxy and others are commonly referred to as intracellular antibiotics.

Spirochete loads decreased by about 90% while cyst levels increased by 200% - just as expected. . . .

. . . Amoxicillin killed 90% of spirochete forms - OK, but -- it also killed 68% of the cystic forms!

Amoxicillin and other cell wall drugs are not cyst busters - only specific anti-parasite drugs kill cysts - or so we thought.

Well lets think again for a second: what are cysts? . . . .

- Full blog entry at link above.
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LymeNut
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Do the Byron White herbs or Beyond Balance herbals combat cystic forms of Lyme? Are there any other herbs (non-Rx) that can help with this specific form of Lyme?
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Keebler
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Thanks to LymeToo for this fabulous link:

http://phys.org/news/2013-06-classic-microscopy-reveals-borrelia-bacteria.html

Classic microscopy reveals borrelia bacteria

- by Trine Nickelsen - June 5, 2013


Excerpt:

. . . Our experiments show that virtually all the bacteria change into the cystic form in the course of just one hour.

We can then expose them to almost any antibiotic medication, but nothing destroy these . . . .


. . . this is actually staggeringly complex. I have pointed out a problem that nobody has taken very seriously, in my view - at least not many doctors", says Laane.
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[ 06-05-2013, 08:33 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Keebler
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http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=013239;p=0

What is a LLMD? LL ND? What is ILADS?

WHY you need an ILADS "educated" or "minded" Lyme Literate doctor (whether MD or ND, or both) - starting with assessment / evaluation.
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poppy
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The question in my mind is what happens when we use cyst busters. Do they open up and spill out viable spirochetes or are they killed?
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Keebler
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Yes, they cysts open up when the right kinds of medicine / enzymes / specific supplements have been able to break through.

Yes, then spirochetes spill out in large numbers - larger in number than before.

Spirochetes are not killed by cyst busters (generally speaking). Spirochetes require additional Rx / enzymes / specific supplements / Rife frequency, etc.
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[ 02-11-2014, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Marz
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I'm wondering about Byron White and the cyst form too.

I'm about to start A-L.

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