I've recently started Physical Therapy for back/shoulder/neck issues.
Today, I was hooked up to a TENS machine for a few minutes (Transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation).
Has anyone used these before, and is safe for those of us with Lyme and coinfections?
I'm hoping that the TENS treatment has nothing to do with - and no effect on - Lyme, spirochetes, etc.
I'd love any feedback! Thanks, Jill
Posts: 711 | From Bucks County, PA | Registered: Apr 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- If you do okay, that's good thing.
And I hate to mention this but in his set of guidelines, Burracacno says: no electrical stim
in the P.T. rehab section
I'll see if I can find that link for you. You can assess how YOUR BODY felt afterward, and the next few days, though and talk to your LLMD about it.
It would also be nice for someone to connect with Burrascano for some clarification to his statement.
I have read that spirochetes HATE heat & vibration and will burrow deeper and roll into their cyst for to try to escape.
And there is the adrenal issue - if this is upsetting to the body as can be to some.
I had terrible reactions to a couple different kinds of electrical stimulation but I've heard of others who did great with TENS and it's far safer than pain meds for the body.
TENS may also be a lighter kind of electrical stim than what Burrascano was talking about in the P.T. rehab section of his guidelines.
Their is a stronger kind with rubber cups and mush more voltage that I was hooked up to.
A tiny unit to my ears, though, also really clobbered me for days with increased tinnitus to the moon (though one poster her say she got short term relief)
Electrical acupuncture also has disasterous effects for my entire body. I think my adrenals could not tolerat it .
I've not done actual TENS.
Massage might be a better way to go, if possible to get myofascial release that will get to the source of the pain to "release" muscle tightness, IF it's caused by that.
In your case, you sound like it's a good thing. I think we need to know more so do ask your LLMD and maybe that will help clear it all up just to be sure. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Thanks so much for the information you provided. I really hope that nothing bad comes of this.
It was only one 10 minute session, so hopefully that will not lead to Lyme issues.
It's funny because before they hooked me up, I thought of Lyme and whether it is safe. I was too embarrassed to ask about it as I have gotten more than
my share of eye rolls since being diagnosed in 2008. Ridiculous that I would risk my own health because I was embarrassed to speak up.
In my experience, those who are not educated in Lyme Disease look at me like I am crazy if I bring it up or ask questions.
I'll mention this to my LLMD and do some digging. Meanwhile, next PT session, I will be sure to speak up and advise that I cannot do the TENS treatment again.
I just hope that one 10 minute session won't set me back when I'm finally in a better (though far from ideal) place.
Now I'm nervous that I might get sicker. I guess I'll have to hope for the best. Posts: 711 | From Bucks County, PA | Registered: Apr 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- jwick,
You say: " . . . risk my own health because I was embarrassed to speak up . . ." (end quote)
I cannot count the ways I've done that, too.
I've also learned that even when I learn of how I must do or not do this or that, I just keep the reason to myself or come up with one that will fit with their world.
Please, relax about your session yesterday. Chances are there is no problem with just 10 minutes and you seem to be your regular self today.
My reactions occured that same day and the next.
Just relax today.
I would not schedule further unless you have an acute pain issue that needs immediate attention - before talking with your LLMD. If they do not know, ask them to call Burrascano for clarification.
It also may be that - certain treatment for lyme or adrenal support - will make electrical stim okay.
I would love the specifics, too.
Ask your LLMD for a LL physical therapist. It's really important for many reasons that they by LL or willing to learn (and you should not have to teach them). Maybe they could meet with your LLMD or attend an ILADS conference?
At least, if you are comfortable that the PT might be lyme-friendly, you might print out those guidelines, the PT section, and take them in. As long as the the PT knows that YOUR individual needs may vary even from the typcial lyme patient written about in the set. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
Advanced Topics in Lyme Disease (Diagnostic Hints and Treatment Guidelines for Lyme and Other Tick Borne Illnesses
Dr. Burrascano's Treatment Guidelines (2008) - 37 pages
------------ As important as any supplements, sections regarding self-care:
Go to page 27 for SUPPORTIVE THERAPY & the CERTAIN ABSOLUTE RULES
and also pages 31-32 for advice on a safe, non-aerobic exercise plan and physical rehabilitation. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- UPLEDGER & FELDENKRAIS are two therapeutic styles that work best for those with lyme.
Just Google each term.
Some great posts here, scroll down to the Body Works section for an excellent description of how a Feldenkrais therapist was so very LL for one patient and how much that mattered:
Integrative / Holistic M.D., etc. (Be aware that those in this category can have various levels of formal herbal &/or nutritional education, perhaps even just a short course. Do ask first.)
Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:
Understanding of the importance of addressing the infection(s) fully head-on with specific measures from all corners of medicine;
knowing which supplements have direct impact, which are only support and which are both.
You can compare and contrast many approaches.
BASIC HERBAL EDUCATIONAL & SAFETY links,
BODY WORK links with safety tailored to lyme patients . . . -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Are you sure it is TENS or electro-stim?? TENS is used to distract one from the pain.
Electro-stim is used in a similar way to ultrasound therapy.
I have a TENS unit at home and when I was prescribed electro-stim at PT I asked if they were the same and she said no.
My results with the TENS for pain is mixed. Doesn't help that much for my pain.
The electro-stim may have actually aggravated my foot strain. Not sure, but my treatment last week may be my last!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Good question.
Doesn't TENS use electrical stimulation to send out the little shocks to the nerves?
It may be that how it works (with electrical stimulations) may not be the same as the actual therapy that is called "electrical stimulation" but if it uses the same method, it might still be good to clear with LLMD.
Though, as I recall the TENS unit I had provided FAR less of a jolt than the PT method that used a larger machine and rubber cups with electrodes on my skin. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
That is a good question. I'll ask when I go back on Friday whether it was a TENS system or something else.
Whatever it was, I had that done today, so I'll see how I feel.
What's weird is I found something similar online to the guideline that Keebler posted. However, the TENS was listed in the things that were ok. Amazing!
It's as if you can't trust everything you read online.
The other PT things that I will be doing are mild exercises and stretching to help with a back/shoulder/neck problem (bulging disc in back, etc.).
Also some mild massage and heat.
I believe that those are acceptable.
I'll keep digging for information.
Posts: 711 | From Bucks County, PA | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
I know. It's confusing. Way back when, I had a chiro use some stimulation on my back and I was in so much pain later I wanted to kill him.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- jwick,
You say that you found on a web site that TENS was okay for lyme but not sure how to interpret that information.
How to determine the credibility of any statement? First, find out who said it, not the poster, if on a discussion board, but where they got it, the original source.
Then, you can go right to the source and try to figure out more. Then, there's the matter of seeing what other experts have to say about it as there can be different views.
Finding out who said what, how they arrived at that, etc. can help.
If you have a link and can post that and the comment excerpt, that may be of help if we can recognize the source. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- jwick,
Going back to your comment: " . . . risk my own health because I was embarrassed to speak up . . ." (end quote)
PRACTICE saying something like:
"I need to stop now. This is not working for me."
Seriously. You do not have to explain why, it's okay to say that "I cannot explain exactly why but this is not good for me right now. I have to stop."
Especially with non-LL practitioners, you don't have explain in terms of lyme but can certainly zero in on the effects for you IF you think they can understand.
You can say: "overstimulating" or "too painful" - "that's about all the exercion I feel is safe for me right now" - or just "can't pinpoint why but my body is telling me I must stop now."
My biggest problems from not saying when something was too painful or overstimulating. I paid dearly for days - sometimes for weeks - after a PT would have me do any endurnance measurements.
And, sometimes, I may have done okay at the time but then it landed me flat later or the next day.
And one PT said when I called to cancel "well, you did so well yesterday, I don't see what the problem is. You DID it once You can do it again." Wrong assumpton. Wrong PT.
Different OT could not understand why the wallpaper made me dizzy. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Meanwhile, next PT session, I will be sure to speak up and advise that I cannot do the TENS treatment again.
-
If it's actually a TENS unit it should not be a problem for you. I've used mine for hours on end with no negative results.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Judie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 38323
posted
My TENS unit has helped me so much with pain relief.
It was the most effective device they used at physical therapy.
I finally bought my own machine for home use.
My hip hurt so bad yesterday, so I used my unit and felt better instantly.
The TENS unit creates endorphins in the area by stimulating the nerve.
For me, this is much better than taking pain meds and the problems those cause.
Posts: 2839 | From California | Registered: Jul 2012
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- jwick,
considering others' good experiences and that I may have been interpreting "electrical stimulation" too narrowly -- and if this seemed to be fine for you on the firt run, I'd go for it again.
Just be sure it is a TENS, and that you are comfortable with it (not getting jolted or feel uneasy as if adrenals are overstimulated - a real TENS unit set correctly should not do that).
Write the name of the unit down, any particulars with numbers of your "dose" and just check in sometime soon with your LLMD about it. A note or email (or quick call to office mgr.) should be fine to put questions to rest.
As you use TENS, be sure to relax. Put all this aside and let your body relax as much as possible. Float on a cloud, swim in a turquoise pool or take a winter walk in the snow, in your mind. Enjoy letting your body relax as best possible. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- In a web search, I did find one (ILADS-minded) lyme organization in other country that suggests TENS. I am not comfortable posting the link as they also recommend using a steroid cream with it.
Steroid creams should never be used by anyone with lyme. They can make lyme worse, even topical creams can be absorbed into the body.
Be sure no steroid creams are used during any PT session.
If any creams or lotions are used on you during any PT modalites, also be sure their smell is okay for YOU. If not, don't let them use them.
Coconut oil - or even your own oil or lotions - can be brought in if you need. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Thank you all so much for the great advice! My first step will be to confirm what device/procedure was actually used.
Once I do that, I'll get the details and pass along to my LLMD.
Thanks for the reminder about steroid creams. I will be sure to mention that as well.
Lots of great information here!
I'm glad that some of you found relief from your treatments. I agree that if there is a safe procedure to use besides medication....that is great!
Posts: 711 | From Bucks County, PA | Registered: Apr 2008
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They confirmed that any creams they use are run of the mill massage creams....no steroid creams.
They also confirmed that they use the TENS machines. I opted not to use it this time around, as I wanted to learn more about it first.
Posts: 711 | From Bucks County, PA | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
I did any and every machine PT used with me for over 20 years for "fibromyalgia." None of it seemed to bother me and sometimes I felt better afterwards. If they're using a TENS unit, it masks pain.
However, PT did not fix what ailed me - that had to wait until I found out I had Lyme and started on oral abx for it - THEN my pain went to zero in a week's time!
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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posted
I've had TENS treatments throughout the years. It's the only thing that will get me out of pain at times. My Chiropractor uses it on me.
-------------------- Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again! Posts: 941 | From AZ-MT | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Diathermy is easy to understand how it could be linked to ALS but regarding TENS and possibly other electrical devices, here is a good info on how maybe it could be connected.
"Summary: Research shows that ATP (adenosine triphosphate) levels increase with the application of microcurrent and diminish with millicurrent (Cheng 1982). The increase of ATP peaked at 500 microamps and decreased rapidly at higher current levels."
"ATP METABOLISM AND SYNTHESIS UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF ELECTRICAL STIMULATION
The Different Metabolic Effects of Standard Millicurrent TENS VS Microcurrent.
Even though, historically, both microcurrent and TENS devices have tended to be classified as substantially equivalent to pre-amendment TENS devices, there appears to be a very elemental divergence between the biological effects of the two technologies. While at the upper(millicurrent) end of the TENS current spectrum, the electrical stimulation can block the neurological transmission of pain signals, there appears to be a dramatic difference in the metabolic effects at the lower end, the microcurrent end.
Research by Cheng Et. Al.14, demonstrated a very significant difference between the types of electrical stimulators known as TENS devices and those classified as MicroCurrent devices.
Cheng demonstrated that currents in the range of about 200-750 microAmps tended to increase ATP concentrations in cells, while currents above 1 milliAmp tended to lower intracellular ATP concentrations. Herein lies the quintessential difference between milli and microcurrent devices."
posted
I used a tens unit after a bout with lyme infection of the 7th facial/cranial nerve. My face was paralyzed on the left side and I went to the College of Oriental Medicine in my town and had needles and TENS unit therapy. I think it preserved my nerve function in my face and the accupunture helped my nerves recover. Everyone here on the boards is different and my experience has been extremely positive with TENS stimulation. The unit was hooked up to the acupuncture needles and my muscles would mildly twitch with each pulse. I would recommend TENS for anyone.
Posts: 482 | From Oregon | Registered: Feb 2011
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posted
I've also had positive experiences with my TENS unit. It helps with lumbar disc and neck pain.
I have scoliosis and my back always hurts so it's nice to be able to use the TENS for that. It also has helped menstrual cramps.
I find it very mild.
I've done harsher electro-current treatments and they left me feeling awful. I was told at one point that weekly treatments with a SCIO would kill my lyme infection. I did about 5 or 6 of those. Each time I felt terrible- never better.
Same with the ionic foot bath I did last spring. I felt freaking horrible after that.
But the TENS unit has never bothered me. I use it on a lower setting and usually only about 20 minutes at a time. It's nice and really helps the pain.
Posts: 428 | From Midwest | Registered: Dec 2012
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Keebler
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Member # 12673
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