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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Cordyceps

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Author Topic: Cordyceps
canefan17
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Anyone here take it & herx from it?

After about 5 days of ramping up slow I began getting flu-like symptoms (achy, sore throat, etc).

It'd be nice if the cordyceps was jump-starting my immune system (my CD57 is a 9 - ouch!)

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steve1906
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Here's some talk about herxing/Cordyceps.

http://www.remedyspot.com/showthread.php/3831867-Re-Is-NEVER-herxing-the-symptom-of-a-very-depressed-I-S

--------------------
Everything I say is just my opinion!

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surprise
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How are you doing on this?

I just started a nice tincture of it about 3-4 days ago- last 2 days 2x a day, first time use-

loved what Buhner wrote about it in his new book-
I'm doing a parasite/yeast cleaning right now,

so hard to tell what's what, but woke up at 3:30 a.m. from an ache in my left hand- joint/ muscle, new

my first thought that flashed was: Cordyceps?

--------------------
Lyme positive PCR blood, and
positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011.
low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012.
Update 7/16- After extensive treatments,
doing okay!

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canefan17
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I backed off my dose and ramped back up again.
I take 1/2 tsp 3x a day (working up to 1 tsp 3x a day)

It certainly gives me energy and helps me recover from golf/exercise. Also increases libido in my experience.

I do get achy and flu-like at times with it. Also insomnia the first week of taking it.

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CD57
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I've been on it for 3 weeks, at high dose, as per new Buhner book. This is timely discussion as I have noticed the past few days I feel absolutely terrible....not in a "herx" flu-ey way, but in cognitive symptoms, nerve pain, and some other stuff. Also very swollen ln that are not responding to drainage.

Cordyceps?

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LymeXtu
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Can anyone tell me what Buhner says about Cordyceps?

I have not read the new book.

Does he recommend dried form (capsule) or a tincture?

Thanks in advance for any info !

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surprise
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There is a big chapter, I can't do it a slight justice.

Small, butchered description - it is a mushroom (does not cause fungus/yeast overgrowth in humans, according to book)

details of the type grossed me out, basically, it is an immunoadaptogen herb-

the book includes studies, references, dosing, mechanics.

--------------------
Lyme positive PCR blood, and
positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011.
low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012.
Update 7/16- After extensive treatments,
doing okay!

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Keebler
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LymeXtu,

It's nearly impossible to learn what we would need to know before starting just from a few posts here and there. It's best to read the book, and also Wilson's book about adrenal care. And then also read a few key articles or chapters from other authors.

Many lyme support groups have these books to lend. Libraries have Wilson's book, inter-library loan if you local branch does not. That's how I got it.
-

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Keebler
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-
http://www.amazon.com/Healing-Lyme-Prevention-Borreliosis-Coinfections/dp/0970869630/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1361216068&sr=1-1&keywords=Healing+Lyme%3A+Natural+Healing+And+P revention+of+Lyme+Borreliosis+And+Its+Coinfections

Healing Lyme: Natural Healing And Prevention of Lyme Borreliosis And Its Coinfections

- by Stephen Harrod Buhner (2005)

[He is a master herbalist / researcher / author - not a treating doctor. He isextremely lyme literate.]

Websites: http://buhnerhealinglyme.com/ & http://planetthrive.com/2009/08/buhner-healing-lyme-program/

Forum: http://planetthrive.com/category/experts/buhner/
-

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Keebler
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-
Cordyceps detail here, and the link to Wilson's very important book:

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/89790

Topic: NATURAL SLEEP & ADRENAL SUPPORT
-

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CherylSue
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I just read Buhner's new book. I'm impressed. I didn't do well with his suggestions from his first book. However, this new book discusses mycoplasma and Bartonella in depth. He loves,loves, loves cordyceps. He gives a list where you can buy it. I think it is available in tincture and dry herb form, if I recall. Motherwort is an herb he discusses at length.
\
The book isn't that expensive. I purchased it from amazon.

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Keebler
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CherylSue,

Thanks for the input on his new book. It's on my list. For those who don't yet have this link:

http://www.amazon.com/Healing-Lyme-Disease-Coinfections-Complementary/dp/1620550083/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1361214365&sr=1-1&keywords=Healing+Lyme+Disease+Coinfections%3A+C omplementary+and+Holistic+Treatments+for+Bartonella+and+Mycoplasma+%5BPaperback%5D

Healing Lyme Disease Coinfections: Complementary and Holistic Treatments for Bartonella and Mycoplasma [May, 2013]
-

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surprise
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Ugh, not feeling well-- been at 3x a day. Feels like Lyme :-(

Like it's flushing or fighting it in my muscles and joints, which was not one of my Lyme issues (more neuro)

--------------------
Lyme positive PCR blood, and
positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011.
low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012.
Update 7/16- After extensive treatments,
doing okay!

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Keebler
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-
I've never experienced any bad effects from Cordyceps. It's always made me feel so much better as a wonderful adrenal support. I've always taken just the dose for that purpose, though.

Maybe for those who do not have such a happy time with it, it's best to cut down the dose.

I think that anytime anything pushes to much it's best to back down. Never good to put the body under too much stress. It can only do so much at one time.

And, just as with many foods, not all foods work for everyone. There are always other ways if one way is not working, though.
-

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surprise
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Thanks Keebler- always kind.
Oddly, my mood has been good, despite poor sleep (got woken last night)

and I've been very hungry the last days, eating well and a lot (I'm underweight) and, I am undergoing a parasite and yeast cleanse.

Nonetheless, I feel it is doing *something* here...

--------------------
Lyme positive PCR blood, and
positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011.
low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012.
Update 7/16- After extensive treatments,
doing okay!

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LymeXtu
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Thanks for everyone's input.

Keebler,

Thank you, good advice as always, I ordered the buhner book and will look into the other one you suggested.

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glm1111
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Just wondering if Buhner discusses parasites as a co-infection, and if he offers any antiparasitic herbs for G.I. parasites as one of his treatments?

Gael

--------------------
PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW
RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS*

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surprise
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Gael, I have 2 of his books, Herbal Antibiotics, and the newest,
which deals strictly with the co-infections

Mycoplasma and Bartonella. I have not seen in either of those books any mention of parasite treatment.

Yesterday he gave his last conference - I wonder if the topic was discussed....

--------------------
Lyme positive PCR blood, and
positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011.
low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012.
Update 7/16- After extensive treatments,
doing okay!

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surprise
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Sorry, actually, in Buhner's Healing Antibiotics book,
he does have a

Hot Infusion for Parasites
(list of herbs to be prepared)
to be drunk 4x a day (1 cup)
for 8 days

--------------------
Lyme positive PCR blood, and
positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011.
low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012.
Update 7/16- After extensive treatments,
doing okay!

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glm1111
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Thanks surprise....hmmmm....8 days parasite tx. It can take several concentrated yrs to get rid of parasites.

Gael

--------------------
PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW
RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS*

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CD57
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Surprise, I had to back off the cordyceps as I think it was doing something also, I was on pretty big doses.

To all, Buhner notes that the "tepid" American doses do not do anything for a chronic condition, that this mushroom is to be considered medical food and consumed as such (like 6-9 grams per day! compared to 1 gram American dose).

What's interesting is that it is supposed to suppress cytokines, which in theory is supposed to make you feel better, yet all of us feel like it is stirring something up!

CherylSue, would like to hear more about your experiences on the old protocol.

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surprise
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I am taking it 3x a day, dropper full of tincture, and have evened out on it.

Doing another week of parasite/ yeast (through upcoming full moon) discontinue

and then doing the new Buhner book suggestion herbs and supps for Bartonella for 30 days... just to see what happens.

Will continue the Cordceps throughout--
I'm intrigued by the herbs as of late.

--------------------
Lyme positive PCR blood, and
positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011.
low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012.
Update 7/16- After extensive treatments,
doing okay!

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dbpei
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I bought the powdered form from 1st Chinese herbs and started just 3 days ago taking 1 tsp twice a day. The stuff tastes awful! I initially mixed it into pomegranite juice but now am mixing it in a small amount of yogurt, which I tolerate better.

I don't know if it is the cordyceps or something else, but for 2 days, my tinnitus was noticeably quieter. (It's bad this morning [Frown] ) Buhner did say that is one of the multiple symptoms that it might help.

Last night, I was awakened by some strange pain in my bicep that was gone by morning. I have also had some increase in shin pain and bone pain, but it is mild and passes.

I can't imagine getting up to the dose that Buhner recommends for mycoplasma infection, but not sure I have that infection. I will probably stay at current dose for a while and see what happens.

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canefan17
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I now take 2 tsp 3x per day of cordyceps.
I really like. All of my herxy symptoms that I talked about in my original post are gone.

I will consider getting to 1 tbsp 3x per day and sticking to that.

Without a doubt it helps me recover from activity and gives me energy (so does Adrenal Health by Gaia Herbs)

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CherylSue
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I didn't have much success with Buhner's Healing Lyme protocol, just a lot of herxing. I needed aggressive abx to put me in remission.

His new book Healing Coinfections Mycoplasma and Bartonella is just amazing. I am looking for maintenance therapy as I wean off abx. My CD57 is not high enough yet to drop the abx totally, but I no longer react to 2000 mg of Flagyl. My babesia is down, but my LLMD wanted NO babesia as compared to low babesia. My Mycoplasma is lower, but still above normal and that may be contributing to my lingering symptoms of fatigue.

[ 09-02-2013, 08:25 PM: Message edited by: CherylSue ]

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dbpei
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How do you take the cordyceps? Do you mix it with juice or a food?
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CherylSue
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I put it in pomegranate juice as suggested by Buhner.
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LuluBelle
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I have been planning to try this for awhile.

I finally ordered it yesterday.

The reason I finally decided to try it is because in Buhner's new book he mentions that it shifts your body's immune response from Th1 to Th2.

The Th1 is the initial immune response. Lyme hides from your immune system keeping this initial response elevated. The Th2 response is needed for long term infections. Also long term elevated Th1 can result in auto immune conditions.

If I get a good result from Cordyceps I will let y'all know.

--------------------
You won't know how sick I was until you see me when I'm well !

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rowingmom
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Our first try at cordyceps (1/2 tsp BID) resulted in extremely improved concentration for myself and ADHD-like symptoms for my daughter.

It took both of us a while to get to sleep that evening.

I recalled reading something in the book about a high glutamate level, something my daughter doesn't need.

I discontinued her dosage, but carried on myself and have not had the same extreme response that I did with the first dose. I do seem to have more initiative and feel pretty happy.

I'm not sure what 3-4 tbsp 3x daily would do.

--------------------
13 yo DX PANS/Tourette's/Asperger's/ADHD treated for Igenex positive bartonella/IND lyme with 2 years of abx treatment. Weaned off abx April 2013 at 80% improvement. Continuing with Buhner bartonella/babesia protocols. Aug 2014 99% improvement.

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dbpei
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I made the mistake of ramping up too quickly to 3 tbsp on my morning dose last week. I immediately felt toxic as though I was having a horrible herx.

Terrible nausea with a strange, sweet smell that I could not get out of my sinuses. The thought of certain foods made me sick. My bones ached and I was tired and tearful.

I stopped it all together for a few days and gradually felt better. Now I am starting again at 1 tsp per dose. I feel okay so far.

I remember reading in Buhner's book that you need to take 3 TBS 3 x day for it to kill mycoplasma. But do you know if you need to take such a high dose to build up your immunity to fight other infections like bart, lyme, babesia, systemic fungi, etc at lower doses? I need to re-read his book and perhaps I will figure it out.

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surprise
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Buhner does suggest to take it in very high doses, think of it as a food-

I went through 2 four oz. tincture bottles, taking it 3 times a day-

I am glad I did it, but couldn't justify more purchases of it with my already high supplement bills- not a 'wow' for me type thing.

--------------------
Lyme positive PCR blood, and
positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011.
low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012.
Update 7/16- After extensive treatments,
doing okay!

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CherylSue
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dbpei, I wonder if Buhner's book wasn't edited properly. In two places in the book, I read it was 1 TBSP 3xdaily. On another page it said 3TBSP 3xdaily.

I'm starting with the one tbsp twice daily. There's just so much powder I can gag down. I take the first tbsp with my morning detox drink, and the other tbsp later in the day with pomegranate juice.

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dbpei
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Good find, CherylSue. Maybe the 3 TBS was a mistake!
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Keebler
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-
Contact the author at his websites for clarification. You may find detail about this questions even by searching there.

Website: http://buhnerhealinglyme.com/ & http://planetthrive.com/2009/08/buhner-healing-lyme-program/

Forum: http://planetthrive.com/category/experts/buhner/
-

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CherylSue
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The sites above refer to the capsules, not the powder. Dr. Buhner is not taking questions at this time.

I think cordyceps is energizing, so you might want to start with the lower dosage.

Until clarification that may be the wisest thing to do.

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LuluBelle
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My cordyceps arrived Monday.

I took 1/4 tsp Monday afternoon and again in the evening.

Tuesday I took 1/2 tsp morning and afternoon and 1 tsp in the evening.

Tuesday afternoon my energy was great so I said, "Whoo-Hoo ! Let's go for it"

Wednesday morning I took 1 tsp and planned to take 3 more doses of 1 tsp. By mid morning I felt like *blank* (please supply your own vulgar word).

So I will back down and go more cautiously.

You never know, maybe I would have felt bad anyway. But if it was a herx. This stuff could be good for me.

--------------------
You won't know how sick I was until you see me when I'm well !

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Keebler
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LuluBelle,

Usually, it's best to keep to a low dose for at least a full week, and the same for subsequent gradual increases . . . at least a week or more for each step. The goal is for a balance, not a blast.

It may also be best for you to do less later in the day. I hope some changes will help you better tolerate this. I also think it's best to have a combination of things in a balanced formula. See details here and especially in Wilson's book:


http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/89790

Topic: NATURAL SLEEP & ADRENAL SUPPORT
-

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dbpei
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Come to think of it, I've been waking more in the night and not sleeping very deeply. I wonder if I should skip the 6 pm cordyceps and just take it upon awakening and mid-afternoon...
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CherylSue
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I've been on two tablespoons of cordyceps for two weeks and feeling more tired with occasional flulike symptoms. It may be allergies this time of year, fighting a virus, or the cordyceps????
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
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-
CherylSue,

do you mean the dry powder? If an alcohol tincture, I'd say the alcohol would be too much (and maybe the dose, too).

If you are feeling worse with this, I would alter what you are doing. This is not an herb that directly affects any infection. It's more for support. So, find the dose that works for you.
-

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dbpei
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From what I understand, cordyceps modulates your immune system. But when I took too much, I felt tired, nauseous and flu-like, Cheryl Sue. Perhaps my body could not handle the die-off it was creating from improving my immune system.

I think you need to ramp up slowly. I have been taking 2-3 tsp per day of the powdered form from First Chinese Herbs, but I cannot tolerate the level Buhner recommends.

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patches10025
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I just started taking Chaga extract. I believe this is the most effective mushroom for Lyme.


http://www.beingherd.com/lyme-disease-benefits-of-chaga-medicinal-mushrooms/


Be sure to get the Siberian Extract.

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CherylSue
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Thanks for your replies. I think I probably ramped up too quickly on the cordyceps. I will try all your suggestions. I have some Herb Pharm Eleuthro...(siberian ginsing in my stash in my cabinet)

I have backed down to 1 tablespoon of the dry powder, and that does seem better.

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canefan17
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dbpei,

I had exact same experience as you with Cordyceps.

Too much and I felt tired & the thought of some foods sickened me (foods I had always eaten!).

My herbalist said it was puhsing my liver too much too fast. Some of us need baby doses & I believe I'm one of those people.

My mother needs baby doses of everything too.
I think it's a liver thing.

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