LymeNet Home LymeNet Home Page LymeNet Flash Discussion LymeNet Support Group Database LymeNet Literature Library LymeNet Legal Resources LymeNet Medical & Scientific Abstract Database LymeNet Newsletter Home Page LymeNet Recommended Books LymeNet Tick Pictures Search The LymeNet Site LymeNet Links LymeNet Frequently Asked Questions About The Lyme Disease Network LymeNet Menu

LymeNet on Facebook

LymeNet on Twitter




The Lyme Disease Network receives a commission from Amazon.com for each purchase originating from this site.

When purchasing from Amazon.com, please
click here first.

Thank you.

LymeNet Flash Discussion
Dedicated to the Bachmann Family

LymeNet needs your help:
LymeNet 2020 fund drive


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations.

LymeNet Flash Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » extracts: cryptolepis vs. sida acuta vs. CSA

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: extracts: cryptolepis vs. sida acuta vs. CSA
gz
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 43818

Icon 1 posted      Profile for gz     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I am looking to use herbals along with or opposite an artemisinin pulse. I know crypto is supposed to be good for babs, and that Buhner is now recommending sida acuta over crypto for babs?

I also have bart to treat.

I've tried the CSA a little bit. When I realized I'd have to really up the dose I was taking I just shelved it since I didn't have the funds to get more. I think it has the potential to be helpful in my tx.

Can you share your experiences with these herbs, especially if you have used more than one of them?

Posts: 474 | From US | Registered: May 2014  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
rowingmom
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 41213

Icon 1 posted      Profile for rowingmom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
We have never used artemisinin.

When we started on Buhner's bartonella protocol, we got to dosages of 1/4 tsp 3x daily of sida. Along with the entire bartonella protocol, our daughter held steady at 80% improvement for 7 months after weaning from bart abx.

It was only when we added CSA that she started babesia herxes. We had not known up to that point that she even had babesia - tested negative for duncani and microti, and was asymptomatic for it. I didn't even know which infection we were dealing with when the air hunger, sighing, dry cough, chest pressure and thigh pain started with the intro of CSA.

With those symptoms our LLMD clinically diagnosed babesia, and so we have added the babesia herbs to the bartonella protocol and have found almost complete resolution of symptoms.

For us, CSA has been an important part of babesia treatment and addressed babesia in a way that sida alone did not. We have never tried cryptolepis on it's own.

--------------------
13 yo DX PANS/Tourette's/Asperger's/ADHD treated for Igenex positive bartonella/IND lyme with 2 years of abx treatment. Weaned off abx April 2013 at 80% improvement. Continuing with Buhner bartonella/babesia protocols. Aug 2014 99% improvement.

Posts: 265 | From Canada, Ontario | Registered: Jul 2013  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
gz
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 43818

Icon 1 posted      Profile for gz     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thank you for sharing your experience, rowingmom. I found the info very useful!
Posts: 474 | From US | Registered: May 2014  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rumigirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15091

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Rumigirl     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Please tell me more about CSA, where you get it, expense, effects, etc. Or point me to where to get more info. I have a hefty case of Babs, in spite of never testing +, which means not much, of course.

Thank you.

Posts: 3736 | From around | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
tickbite666
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 43399

Icon 1 posted      Profile for tickbite666     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
get it at woodlandessence.com

cost $40 for 4 oz bottle, plus shipping.

Steven Buhner's latest Bart/Myco book has the most info. His core protocol for Bart is also used for Babs. His new babs book is due out soon.

Posts: 119 | From ground zero | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
gz
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 43818

Icon 1 posted      Profile for gz     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
CSA - cryptolepis, sida acuta, and alchornea extracts combined.

I ordered a bottle to try a while back. As I ramped up on it I could tell it was hitting something, but not sure what since I didn't take it for very long.

I am going to start with the cryptolepis, but think I will move onto the CSA later on.

Posts: 474 | From US | Registered: May 2014  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
geronimog
Member
Member # 34875

Icon 1 posted      Profile for geronimog     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
He's also recommending Bruce Javanica now too, along with the cryptolepis. That's the most recent information I have from him and got it from BetterHealthGuy's notes of a conference Buhner spoke at a year or two ago. If anybody has more recent info I'd love to hear it.

I've found I have to take ever-larger doses of crypto for effect and it's getting quite expensive. I'm not able to take sida acuta at the moment and my babesia is resistant to artemisia/wormwood. I'm also taking alinia and proguanil.

Sage Woman is offering a good deal on cryptolepis and the other Buhner herbs now. Their prices are better and so is their cost for shipping. I'm waiting on a couple bottles to test the quality. We'll see how it measures up.

[ 02-20-2015, 08:31 PM: Message edited by: geronimog ]

Posts: 65 | From Montreal | Registered: Nov 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
gz
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 43818

Icon 1 posted      Profile for gz     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That's a good find, geronimog. Please post back with your findings. In comparing both products, the ratio of herb:liquid is different, a 1:7 versus a 1:5.

I think I am going to try making my own tinctures when applicable for the herbs I can get. It seems like it would be much less costly for the amount needed in the long term.

Posts: 474 | From US | Registered: May 2014  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
geronimog
Member
Member # 34875

Icon 1 posted      Profile for geronimog     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
gz,

So, yeah, the 1:5 should be stronger. I noticed that too. Though they use a lower percentage alcohol than Woodland Essence, and as I understand it, this should theoretically weaken the tincture somewhat.

I spoke with the Sage Woman herself (I think, though I don't recall her name), and she mentioned their technique differs from the typical soak that most herbalists use. She claims she employs a sort of percolation and that the end result is a more potent product. It's apparently not used often because of the cost of the equipment, and because it "breaks with tradition." She offered all this unsolicited. I hadn't brought up the lower percentage alcohol or even referred to Woodland Essence at that point in the conversation.

I'll report back in a week or so.

I've tried sourcing some of these herbs from Africa for the same reason. The cryptolepis I ordered was leaf and stem instead of root. I didn't like the arrangement of the other possible source of root. I figured no big deal, the often cited African study using the herb for malaria used this part of the plant and the results were great. Unfortunately that particular herb arrived damp and moldy so I had to chuck it. I haven't tried to source it again since.

The other problem I have with making my own tinctures is access to affordable alcohol that's not derived from wheat, as I'm in Canada, where the hooch is heavily taxed. I should have tried glycerine but that's not exactly cheap either. So I used vinegar. Seems to have worked but I don't use the tincture regularly at this point.

Posts: 65 | From Montreal | Registered: Nov 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
gz
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 43818

Icon 1 posted      Profile for gz     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The percentage of alcohol might matter, it depends on how soluble the active constituents are. A difference between 50% and 65% is probably more negligible than 50 or 65 compared to 90%.

I saw the percolation method mentioned on the website and was wondering what exactly that was.

Link here describes the percolation method:

http://madisonherbalinstitute.org/herbal-education/making-herbal-tinctures-percolation-method/

And from the next link, I liked this analogy to explain why it's stronger:

quote:
Why percolate for a few hours instead of macerate for several weeks?

1. Scientifically, it may make an equivalent or even stronger extract. The herb constantly has fresh

menstruum coming through it, so it maintains a strong extracting power even after the easy compounds

are taken out. Think of it as trying to clean dye (constituents) out of a shirt (herb) with water

(menstruum). Macerating is putting the dyed shirt into a jar of water and leaving it. A certain amount of

dye will come out, but as soon as it comes out of the shirt, it’s in your water and lessens the drawing

power of the water for the rest of the dye. On the other hand, by running clean water over the shirt, you
can potentially get the shirt cleaner

http://www.wintergreenbotanicals.com/Herbal_Education_files/PercolationSM.pdf


I am looking forward to your report!

Posts: 474 | From US | Registered: May 2014  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
geronimog
Member
Member # 34875

Icon 1 posted      Profile for geronimog     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The Sage Woman brand seems to be the real deal. I had a sure fire way of comparing potency but I've messed that up by improving my health via other means and this has thwarted that. Sorry.

However I can tell you the product is the real deal, seemingly just as good. I'm tempted to say it's somewhat better but can't be absolutely sure of, so take my endorsement as you will. Just understand it is a quality product.

The taste is different. Firstly it has less bite with the lower alcohol content. But it also tastes more like a plant/root. More palatable than Woodland Essence's version, though I don't know why this is or if it is a good indication.

Posts: 65 | From Montreal | Registered: Nov 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ArtistDi
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 2297

Icon 1 posted      Profile for ArtistDi     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
gz, how are you pulsing arteminisin? Why is that done, as I am supposed to go on that.
Posts: 1567 | From Hatfield, MA, USA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ArtistDi
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 2297

Icon 9 posted      Profile for ArtistDi     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
sorry, double post
Posts: 1567 | From Hatfield, MA, USA | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
gz
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 43818

Icon 1 posted      Profile for gz     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Many practitioners believe that the body stops responding to art after taking it for so many days. There seems to be just as many who take it continuously or for long pulses as there are who take it in short pulses.

I'd rather not chance that I am wasting doses, so I'm pulsing 3-4 days at a time. Artemisinin needs to be taken concomitantly with other babs tx to prevent resistance.

Posts: 474 | From US | Registered: May 2014  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | LymeNet home page | Privacy Statement

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:

The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey
907 Pebble Creek Court, Pennington, NJ 08534 USA


| Flash Discussion | Support Groups | On-Line Library
Legal Resources | Medical Abstracts | Newsletter | Books
Pictures | Site Search | Links | Help/Questions
About LymeNet | Contact Us

© 1993-2020 The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
Use of the LymeNet Site is subject to Terms and Conditions.