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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Lyme Drs. are all wrong (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Lyme Drs. are all wrong
patches10025
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1HsFAKX6Ak


See beginning 1.36 hour into video

The key is to clean your terrain, NOT mess it up even more with heavy duty antibiotics.

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Brussels
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unfortunately, I cannot watch it, patches. They block me from seeing it (I'm in Europe).

We all start to realize that anti-microbials are working less and less.

It's not only lyme, but also candida, herpes, Clostridium diff...

Dr. Rau in Paracelsius always says: lyme is not an infectious disease, but an immune disease. Strong immune systems never fall ill to lyme.

AIDS patients, if given only antimicrobials, anti virals, still die.

Lyme treatment is younger than AIDS treatment. Physicians only now are starting to realize the limitations of antimicrobial approaches in lyme.

A bit like cancer too. Functioning immune systems do not 'get' cancer either. Mainstream is treating cancer much longer than lyme.

Most still didn't change the paradigm, and keep attacking cancer cells, 'killing' them with drugs and radio.

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randibear
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my husband has been bit numerous times. no sign of lyme. he's like the energizer bunny. jus keeps going and going.

me? I get bit, have the rash and it's been a living hell ever since. I've had tons of treatment, cowden, abx, buhner, you name it.

go figure...

--------------------
do not look back when the only course is forward

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Marz
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Is he saying that protein isn't necessary?

I understand cleansing with a fruit diet but how does one build new tissue with fruit only.

He's inspiring me to increase fruit in my diet though but think muscles would get weaker without protein


He mentions when he went to his sister's for thanksgiving,Turkey smelled so good so he ate some first time in years and it made his mouth feel awful.

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Tincup
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Sorry, Lyme doctors are not "all wrong".

We know this because there are tens of thousands who have been successfully treated using the knowledge and tools they have.

Is there more to learn? Yes.

Is there more than one opinion out there? Yes.

Do we have to gear treatment to fit each individual's complex situation? Yes.

Are "Lyme doctors all wrong"?

No.

--------------------
www.TreatTheBite.com
www.DrJonesKids.org
www.MarylandLyme.org
www.LymeDoc.org

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patches10025
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What he is saying that the most important thing is to detox your body and get it moved to an alkaline rather than an acid condition. Antibiotics are very acid causing.
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willbeatthis
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I second Tincup. You sent an odd message to me Patches re: if I was seriously ready to heal come to this site-btw, I've not gone there. I'd like to know your background.

A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing especially when you assert that some of the most knowledgeable people I have come across that have quite frankly saved my life- have it all wrong.

There are really sick people that come to this site looking for help and to assert what you have is hardly okay.

(breaking up the post for easier reading for many here)

[ 03-26-2017, 10:51 PM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]

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patches10025
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If you look at the website, Master Fast System, you will understand what detoxing is all about.


Yes, you can kill some Lyme bugs, but will you be well-I don't believe so.

Dr. Robert Morse is a healer who understands this.

I have no connection with either person.

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randibear
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I would say most drs are wrong about lyme but llmds are not.
some are better than others but to say they're wrong, nah, I wouldn't say so.

--------------------
do not look back when the only course is forward

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patches10025
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Okay-please tell me if the llmds emphasize detoxing and making body alkaline?

If they are-great, otherwise they are missing the boat. Few will get well unless the body is alkaline.

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Keebler
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Q: " . . . -please tell me if the llmds emphasize detoxing and making body alkaline? . . ." (end quote)


Yes, along with directly, specifically & assertively addressing the actual infections,

LLMDs have been emphasizing such for at least 20 years. It's been a cornerstone of Dr. B's protocol from the start with his emphasis on liver support [a foundation to help the body detoxify metabolic waste] & key nutrients for many other reasons also connected to healthy cellular support, etc.

And every book by every ILADS LLMD or LL ND emphasizes such as well. That's also why green plants are said to be so very vital, to help with the pH balance.
-

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Keebler
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A top LL journalist who speaks from both research and her personal journey:


https://experiencelife.com/article/beating-lyme-2/

Beating Lyme Disease

By Pamela Weintraub - July/August 2014

For patients with tick-borne diseases, the path to health can be confounding. Combining integrative and conventional approaches may be the best way forward.

. . . What’s more, many of these hard-to-treat patients, like Makris, turn out to have co-infections transmitted by the same black-legged ticks that gave them Lyme — infections that don’t always respond to treatments for Lyme disease itself.

The blood parasite Babesia, for example, must be treated with antimalarial medications.

And, the co-infections Anaplasma and Ehrlichia do not respond to amoxicillin, a first-line antibiotic often used for Lyme.

Even if these and other co-infections are addressed, [Dr. H] says patients can stay sick for many reasons beyond simple infection itself. . . .

5/8 of the way down:

16 Factors That Complicate Lyme Recovery . . . .


http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/91327?#000036

Topic: How did Burrascano cure himself?

See all THREE posts here by Pamela Weintraub (who is a LL journalist who recovered from lyme - and write about her entire family dealing with it in "Cure Unknown" book)
-

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Keebler
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For anyone new to lyme, the first two places to learn more:

www.ilads.org

International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society

&

www.lymedisease.org

LymeDisease.org


and if one is looking for a naturopathic approach, in addition to full acquaintance with literature at both sites above:

­­-­
When considering herbal / nutritional / adjunct methods, because lyme is so very complex & unique, as are possible coinfections:

if at all possible - because each person & each case is different - it's best to consult with an ILADS-educated LL ND (lyme literate naturopathic doctor) (or similar) who has completed four years of post-graduate medical education in the field of herbal and nutritional medicine -

- and someone who is current with ILADS' research & presentations, past and present, and has completed the ILADS Physician Training Program (see: www.ilads.org )

so they really know all they can about the science of lyme . . . how lyme (& other TBD) act and what we can do about that in various ways. Proper ASSESSMENT of not just lyme but coinfectoins is vital. Someone trained by ILADS is best to assess.

Many LL NDs incorporate antibiotics (depending upon the licensing laws in their state). Some LLMDs and LL NDs have good working relationships.

When possible, it's great to have both a LLMD and LL ND and even better when they have a long-standing professional relationship.

For those considering complementary support methods / or other avenues entirely:

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/2/13964

How to find an ILADS-educated LL:

N.D. (Naturopathic Doctor);

L.Ac. (Acupuncturist);

D.Ay. (Doctor of Ayurvedic Medicine);

D.O.M. (Doctor of Oriental Medicine);

Herbal Safety considerations & reference books; etc.

BOOKS - Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:

knowing which methods offer assertive & direct impact, which are only support and which are both. And when to use what, how to combine, & when to step back.

You can compare and contrast many approaches with links to articles, books, methods . . .
-

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willbeatthis
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Thanks, Keebler! Your tireless efforts and contribution to us all have never gone unnoticed and are greatly appreciated... New lymies- her post is where to start!
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Marz
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I've been watching a few of his videos and he does make sense about fruits making the body more alkaline than vegetables and that protein causes acidity.

It seems that an almost total fruit diet is what one must do according to him--not just for getting well but as a way of life.

I love fruit, but in the middle of watching a couple of hours of these, I got a horrible craving for potato chips!!!

So, Keebler, in your opinion, is it healthy to not eat protein?

I'm wondering why God created fish, chickens, etc if they weren't intended for us to eat?

So right now, I'm worried about eating the meatballs in my fridge and am afraid to eat them!
lol!

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Marz
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And he's even against grains and dried beans!
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randibear
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fruit is really bad for people with candida. too much sugar.

--------------------
do not look back when the only course is forward

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Bartenderbonnie
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Damn Marz,

Now I have a cankering for meatballs with a side of chips.

Thanks. [bonk]

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patches10025
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Proteins clog your lymphs. Lymphs are the key to detoxing.
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Lymetoo
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Then how are people doing so well on the zero carb diet?

I would be very sick if I ate fruits all day. I love them, but they don't love me.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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patches10025
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Fruits are only one part of the detox process. Herbs and fasting and enemas are important too.

Fasting is the most important as you let you organs rest.

Google Master Fast System. This is one big step beyond a fruit diet. Then access the Facebook entry and listen to those who have healed from every so called disease.

Diseases are only obstructions in the body. Doctors categorize diseases because they do understand that these "diseases" are really obstructions.

True health is removing the obstructions. Only a total detox can remove the obstructions.

Proteins and complex carbs contribute to the problem. Emotions too.

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patches10025
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I meant to say that doctors do NOT understand that these "diseases" are really obstructions.

They come from blocked lymph systems.

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patches10025
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Lyme disease and all its co infections are really only symptoms of an obstructed body that cannot handle the interference=whether it is Lyme or any other problem
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Keebler
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"They come from blocked lymph systems." (end quote)

Actually, these infections most often can be one of the major CAUSES of blocked lymph systems.

The "thick" or "sticky" blood that Babesia and other TBD cause really "clogs" up lymph. Just one aspect of the complex workings. Inflammation from infection, too. The toxicity of the infections as well.

It is important to specifically address all aspects of infection -- and alongside that - correct health habits, nutrition & employ support measures concurrently. There are various ways to do this as the "How to Find a LL ND" thread helps to show.
-

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patches10025
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Fasting is the first line to remove the obstructions. Only when you clear the obstructions can you heal the body.

How many Lyme doctors tell you this?

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Robin123
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Healing is very pluralistic in approach. I know people who have gotten through severe neurolyme after around 10 months on IV rocephin. There are many who come to a top Lyme doctor here who does great with antibiotic combos.

Me, I'm allergic to antibiotics and cannot take them, along with others who cannot and do herbs and other things.

I've always thought healing from Lyme happens in three arenas - kill/deter the organisms, detox, and fortify the body. Some of us are good detoxers genetically and some of us aren't. That's going to make a difference in ability to heal.

Some of us have candida and we're not supposed to have much fruit, or at all in the beginning phase.

It all depends on what we're dealing with.

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patches10025
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Here is a history of the fasting system by the author. He explains the development and why it is so effective.

He now has a following of over 10,000 on his Facebook page.

http://truththeory.com/2017/03/20/learned-50-days-without-eating-food/

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patches10025
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Candida is an acid condition. Fruits are alkalining.

Fruits are really good for this condition-try it before you listen to the "experts".

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Lymetoo
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My body is my "expert."

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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willbeatthis
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Patches- in all due respect- leave things to the experts. Healing is individual for each and every one of us. Giving your opinion as to what one should do in a poor health state is not considered expert and can be misleading at best. There are many sick with lyme that may not be able to handle a fast. Why not just post links and call it a day. After this horrendous journey and by God it is in large part due to the phenomenal information that can be found here, I've been able to dig myself out of this hole. I am not sure in good conscience you can post your opinion as truth and thus be willing to potentially put others in harms way. This thread needs to be looked at by the moderators.
I am proud to say this is the first I've seen the likes of this.

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Tincup
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Patches- when you find something that works for you please feel free to share it.

Don't, however, say that it is right and everything else and everyone else is wrong. That is where so many members are having a problem.

You sound so desperate to get people to agree with you about fruit fasting, so much so you even said over 10,000 people follow your guy on Facebook.

Not being a Facebook person, I randomly picked what I felt to be a kind of off-the-wall thing and checked its numbers as a comparison.

It said... "1,100,662 people like this and 1,063,804 people follow this" on the FB page.

Does this mean others should follow it too?

Does it mean this is what we should all be doing?

I hope not or we'd all be driving Monster Trucks. My point is- it is not for everyone.

Again, feel free to offer your ideas, but please don't kick others in the head when doing so or make generalized statements that are just plain wrong.

That is not the way to get your message taken seriously.

Thanks!

--------------------
www.TreatTheBite.com
www.DrJonesKids.org
www.MarylandLyme.org
www.LymeDoc.org

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patches10025
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Okay/

I agree-find what works for you. I only offer these thoughts for those who want an alternative to some of the persons who do not find their health from the "typical antibiotic" solution.

Again it is there for anyone to understand. Most have no idea that the kidney/lymphatic system IS the way to clean and detox to health. And Lyme, though very painful, is the body reacting to a system that is not capable of attacking it because the body is very toxic and just not working well.

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patches10025
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https://www.drmorsesherbalhealthclub.com/blogs/media/tagged/dr-morses-youtube-videos


http://masterfastsystem.com/directions-for-use/


For those who want more information...

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ukcarry
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I think that most people here already realise the importance of detoxing and draining in tandem with addressing pathogens and modulating the immune system.

Maybe people reacted to your comments more because your tone comes across as so categorical.

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onebeed
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Both my LLMD and my Lyme Literate Integrative doctor have been stressing and teaching about detox and alkalizing the body. Supplements, the proper sauna to use, what to eat and not to eat, everything. They have not been "wrong" about anything.
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Brussels
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Yep, lyme is CERTAINLY an immune disease ALSO.

Randi says: husband gets bitten, never falls ill.

My husband rarely gets bitten, but he did get at least once. He didn't fall sick.

It took us one bite to put us in either wheelchair or bedbound (daughter and I).

Next bites were hell. On and on. Rarely we got bites that didn't make us ill.

With the years, treatment, detox, mouth, cavitations, chelation, psychotherapies, building the gut... tick bites became less and less dangerous to us.

To the point that they only rarely makes us sick now.

If drs knew that many people can get bitten by dozens of ticks and never fall ill they would THINK better before concentrating MOSTLY on anti-microbials.

As Carry said, today more and more drs are concentrating also on detox and immune modulating.

Killing pathogens are, in my opinion, PART of detox (because they lower herxes), and PART OF immuno-modulating, because they take a burden of the immune system. Not an end it itself.

I agree with fasting as an excellent way to again set the immune system and detox system back alive. It is the fastest way to control+alt+del the body.

I WISH I could eat only fruits and veggies.

When I'm FLARING, this is IMPOSSIBLE. I flare even more with fruits (veggies make the opposite, flares lower).

When I'm not flaring and I do not have inflammation, eating fruits and veggies is a blessing.

It is truly a blessing, it makes me feel in paradise, I feel every bit of nourishment in the fresh juices from each bite.

I know people who can't even eat green leaves: they can't digest them anymore. Their guts are so bad they can't digest ANYTHING raw.

This is bad, as many vitamins are in raw foods. But they have no choice than eat overcooked food.

As much as I have no choice than lower my amount of delicious fruits when I'm flaring or fighting active candida.

Avoiding cytokine cascading, like Buhner said, is a must for us fighting infections and inflammation.

Cytokine storms are very harmful to ORGANS and CELLS. Very. You don't need infections to get damaged: only a bad allergic reaction or auto-immune conditions will ruin your life, and even 'cause' cancer in the end.

Ideally we should all be back to natural ways, probably a paleolithic type of diet or even before when we were still becoming humans...., but our illnesses are not clement.

Fasting though, I think, goes well with any type of body (not with any type of mind!!!). People's mind block fasting, because of many reasons!

but it's one of the most potent techniques to bring some hope and energy back, short term. I was very surprised to realize my body's software was not totally broken as I thought, just because of fasting.

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randibear
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fruits for candida. sorry I jus cant buy that

--------------------
do not look back when the only course is forward

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Razzle
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Hmmm...alkalizing a person with overload of ammonia (an alkali substance) is a BAD idea...and Lyme produces an abundance of ammonia. For those with ammonia detox issues, alkalization can make them worse.

BTW, my Dad was a fruitarian for a while. He loved it, said he felt wonderful eating that way. I think this is because he was no longer eating gluten (I suspect he had silent Celiac Disease). So I have to wonder how much of this fruitarian advice is based on what a person is NOT eating once they switch to mostly fruit, vs. the fruit itself.

I know fruit has lots of good nutrients, but as others have stated, nutritional need is individual - a body builder would not be able to be a fruitarian, there simply is not enough protein or calories in fruit to satisfy the body's need in that scenario.

Also, it is dangerous for some people to fast...genetics is one factor in this, but there are other factors, too. People with porphyria, mitochondrial disorders, blood sugar control issues (diabetes, hypoglycemia), etc., need to be very careful about fasting or should not fast at all.

And now there are more and more GMO foods out there to watch out for (and they're not required to be labeled as GMO) - Arctic apples, for instance, have been genetically engineered to not brown when cut open. These GMO apples have been approved for sale by the FDA...

I think the best take-away from this stuff is that one needs to know their own body well enough to determine what of this info is applicable and possibly helpful to them. It is a very individual thing, treatment, detoxing, etc., must be customized to each individual person.

Just my $.02...

:)

--------------------
-Razzle
Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs.

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Brussels
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Fasting comes naturally when the body is not hungry any more.

In acute diseases, many children, animals, adults fast without calling that 'fast'.

we all fasted, for sure, in our lives, when we got sick.

it's not always something you plan to do: your body simply refuses food at a certain point.

You can try to convince children and pets that they have genetic problems or that fasting is not good for them.

But the point is, that is one of the ways we naturally react to some illnesses, usually, acute illnesses.


Fasting will give the body more energy, initially , to fight what it is fighting.

Just look at animals and children: try to push them food when they are ill!

You have to inject them food through IV!!


After fasting, comes hunger.
Exactly when the person / animal feels somewhat better.

Not before.

Before natural instincts prevent you from eating! Until you get better. Then you can spend energy with digestion, breaking up food, processing the left overs and toxins out of the body.

Before, during illness, many children naturally fast, and so do animals. And adults!

------------------------------
I have porphyria (KPU/HPU), I had CFS (now I call it fatigue only), I'm EXTREMELY THIN and small body, underweight my whole life.

One of the indicated treatments for diabetes is FASTING. I heard Mercola talking about that, that intermittent fasting can reverse diabetes sometimes!

This is because it can 'cure' leptin-resistance.

Fasting was beneficial in surprising ways, even though I THOUGHT it could kill me.

I simply felt food was not good anymore, so i decided to stop for a few HOURS.

Yes, you can do fasting that lasts just hours, like eating just once a day, for example.

This is ALSO fasting.

It's also a way to see if you feel OK during a fast.
---------------

If you feel okay, and continue fasting...

By day 3, be prepared for an intense detox reaction. INTENSE.

You think your urine will come out clear, as you eat nothing just drink: WRONG.

The urine comes in a deep color I had never seen before.

Maybe that is THE main power of fasting: it re-sets your body's detox pathways.

If you have porphyria, KPU /HPU, you know that you detox badly, from start. My urine has ALWAYS been like water, barely any color. Always, as long as I can remember.

In the last years, the problem was solved. I don't know if it was solved with fasting or with my violet ray, but the truth is I'm able to detox much better than I could before, during lyme.

---------------------------
My opinion: continue doing as you always did, prepare then to continue with illness.

Unlocking reasons why our bodies do not work as they should, trying to re-set our bodies is THE hardest thing to do.

Give the body supplements: it dumps them back, without using them. The supplements will not necessarily correct a broken software.

Fasting was for me one of the most surprising and simple ways to change my internal software, that I thought it was LONG broken.

while it may not work for everybody, for me, it was really worth.

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Robin123
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Patches, there is something that we have all learned here - that treatment is individual and it needs to fit for the person. A particular treatment does not work for all. We offer suggestions and ideas here, but also discuss them for their appropriate applications.

For example, as I mentioned above, someone with candida would not eat fruit, but for someone not dealing with candida, it wouldn't matter so much.

Someone needing nutrition should not fast, but someone who's gotten good nutrition in could probably do a fast ok for a little while. Etc, etc.

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patches10025
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Detoxing is not a treatment. You did not look at the material and did not understand about fasting.

So you have a closed mind, Robin 123.

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patches10025
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Incidentally, Candida is caused by an overly toxic and acidic body.

Fruits are alkaline to the body and detoxify the body-that is why the sugar angle is not right.

Go on a fruit diet and your yeast problem will go away-try it!

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patches10025
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https://www.drmorsesherbalhealthclub.com/blogs/media/tagged/dr-morses-youtube-videos
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Brussels
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I'm a big fan of fruits, real big.

I love fruits and never really stopped eating fruits. I just control how much I eat, more or less...

but when I'm on flares, I can't eat mostly anything. The best is fasting.

Anything I eat, including meat proteins, cheese, will make me flare, usually.

The moment my candida goes again well dormant, I go back to my high intake of fruits and veggies.

I don't think that such a high intake of fruit diet causes candida to come back.

It's been 30 years for me: my candida is a winter disease, caused by immune weakness, bad circulation, I think.


But now, if I only eat fruits, it's sort of a dead end, ONLY due to flares.

Cytokine storms, which are the WORST things to go through.

They cause literally organ damage, brain damage, nerve damage, they can cause overall swelling, they can even kill.

Lungs may fill with water, multiple organ failure, that is how bad cytokine storms are!

Like all diets, fruits and veggies may be all we should aim for, ideally. Unfortunately, many of us have to go slow, changing slowly.

---------------
Robin is an open person, in my opinion!

Don't be so mean, Patches!

Some people may literally die if they go cold turkey to fruit-only diet, due to cytokine storms.

I wish my cytokines let me eat more fruits!!! I'd be a happier person! [Big Grin]

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patches10025
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Brussels, maybe you need to go the herbal route?

http://masterfastsystem.com/directions-for-use/

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randibear
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anytime i eat too much sugar, including fruit, my candida goes haywire.

I jus think fruit has too much sugar and thats bad for lyme.

I mean why don't we all jus rush out and do McDonald's and chikfila. why even bother with diets. lets jus do what we want.

--------------------
do not look back when the only course is forward

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WakeUp
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quote:
Originally posted by patches10025:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1HsFAKX6Ak


See beginning 1.36 hour into video

The key is to clean your terrain, NOT mess it up even more with heavy duty antibiotics.

Patches--- I agree with you-- detoxification of the body and the lymph system is of major importance.. I took heavy duty antibiotics for 2 years, and I still have chronic Lyme--- and now I have Morgellons.

Fact: Most Lyme victims who worship at the altar of the "medical" priesthood --- have NOT BEEN CURED of chronic Lyme-- yet they persist in fruitless worship of, and devotion to---MDs-- who are the marketing arm of Rockefeller pharmaceutical companies.

The US medical system is set up to SELL DRUGS and make a PROFIT-- NOT to cure. Americans have been puppy trained to worship "medical authorities" even when these authorities have been repeatedly proven to be wrong --- and also when they lack scientific evidence for their wild claims--- like the IDSA's junk science, "chronic lyme doesn't exist" claim. LOL...

Remember when doctors actually promoted smoking??? LOL!!

Its actually quite sad how willingly people allow themselves to be brainwashed by so called "authorities" who are greed driven marketing wings of the medical establishment.

Americans will jump off a cliff if the "medical authority" instructs them to do so. We have all been trained to worship doctors by TV shows like Marcus Welby, Ben Casey, General Hospital and Dr. Kildare.

Naturopaths are trying to break us out of this paradigm-- but unfortunately they are being attacked--- big time by the mainstream medical community..

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WakeUp
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quote:
Originally posted by Tincup:
Sorry, Lyme doctors are not "all wrong".

We know this because there are tens of thousands who have been successfully treated using the knowledge and tools they have.

Is there more to learn? Yes.

Is there more than one opinion out there? Yes.

Do we have to gear treatment to fit each individual's complex situation? Yes.

Are "Lyme doctors all wrong"?

No.

Off hand--- just asking for curiosity's sake--- are you cured, Tincup?
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patches10025
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All Lyme patients who are "cured" please stand up...
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TF
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I was cured in 13 months by going to a Burrascano type doctor.

I have been cured for 12 years now. I have gone through extreme stress, oral steroid treatments for sinus problems, and at least 3 different times had steroid injections in my spine and still my symptoms have not come back.

I have the same brain and life I had before lyme disease.

I had undiagnosed lyme, babs, and bart for at least 10 years before a doctor thought to test me for lyme. Still, I got well.

Then, I sent at least 5 of my friends to Burrascano type lyme doctors and they also got well. And, my lyme doctor had lyme and he got cured.

So, I believe in the Burrascano protocol because I have seen it work over and over again.

It is a 4 pronged approach:

antibiotics
diet
supplements, and
a certain type of exercise to boost the immune system (one continuous hour of weightlifting every other day)

It takes all 4 prongs for the protocol to work.

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TF
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One of my 5 cured friends was likely born with lyme (mother had fibro and she and all of her sisters had it also).

She got diagnosed at age 50 and still got well by going to a doc I recommended.

Another woman had gotten Social Security Disability benefits for her fibro. She had had "fibro" for at least 20 years and an unexplained heart attack to boot. She became "stupid" from her lyme. It was so sad.

But, she is normal today thanks to a Burrascano type doctor.

And, I could go on and on. This is what I have SEEN with my very eyes. These are not people I only know through LymeNet or the internet.

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WakeUp
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TF-- I am very happy for you--- you (and your friends) are very lucky to have found an LLMD who cured you. Yours is a good medical anecdote, but not a double blind study (as if those are really valuable anyway...LOL).

If the Burrascano protocol works so well, and has worked so well since 2005, I don't understand why so many people are still so sick--.i.e. why the LLMD community does not strictly use this protocol (AND SCREAM IT FROM THE ROOFTOPS) if it works so well--- I know my LLMD did not use it and he was president of ILADS for a time-- this is why I gave up in frustration and this is why I do not trust the medical community now.

You can't blame those of us who have tried so hard and spent so much money--- WITH LLMDS. We are frustrated.

I have already expressed my misgivings about the mainstream and LLMD medical community -- but I'm willing to give it one LAST try for 18 months under a strict Burrascano protocol if I can find a doctor who will use this protocol exactly as it is described by Burrascano-- all based on anectodes..

If anyone here could PM me with the name of a STRICT Burrascano doctor in the mid to North Westchester county NY area or in the Hudson Valley--- I would be grateful..

I also have a friend who is a young woman who is very sick and has been on intravenous for severals months, and also gave up -- her mother is getting older and is worried that when she dies, no one will take care of her daughter. This young woman does not have a job due to chronic Lyme, nor is she married and she has recently begun to have seizures. (It would help if she stopped going outside and getting bitten..also the dog brings ticks in-- even in the winter... LOL)

I have lived most of my life--- but she has the rest of hers to live--- if I could help her to get well by any means, I would feel as though my suffering was worthwhile.

I am not dogmatic at all on treatments--- I just have a healthy skepticism of LLMDs based on my experience.

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willbeatthis
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This is the nicest thing to come out of this thread. Wakeup, I hope that TF can give you this information soon. Are you not able to travel in the event you need to? I wish your friend and you healing Godspeed and that your wish for your friend is granted as I feel this is what this journey is truly all about- helping each other. May you be blessed in your pursuit for the both of you and you will certainly be in my thoughts and prayers. TF- thank you for coming forward as to always remind us that there is hope.

SixGoofy I believe is healed and countless others leave Lymenet and go on with their lives. There are so many pieces to each person's case- one must remember that as well. Godspeed WAKEUP!

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duncan
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WakeUp has made some good points, imo.

As for double blinded studies etc, the NIH isn't doling out any funds for treatment studies that I am aware of, and private studies just can't cut it alone - especially when one factors in the inevitable need for replication.

ILADS and LLMDs are at least trying.

But the one size cannot fit all argument can be a costly one.

This gets complicated so fast.

Is it a case of persistent and intractable infections? Or at least infections that seem to resist any boxed approach, and we are literally winging it on a case by case basis? We get the peculiarity of the diseases involved, and each has a signature specific both to the patient and his circumstances...

..and the individual nature treatments by extention might result in, but...this is a frustrating and scary predicament.

Is it a case of a corrupted immune system and falls under a resultant systemic auto-immune or global immune dysfunction umbrella?

Are we talking permanent damage and individual sequelae reflect those issues?

Is it a combination, and we need better means of sifting who fits into which category?

We do not know.

So, it is incumbent on us as buyers to do our due diligence as best as we can. For those of us that have been around long enough, it is not really hyperbole to say it may be no more than a crap shoot.

But, as I said, at least LLMDs acknowledge our plight and are trying.

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Tincup
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Hey Wakeup...

You said... "Most Lyme victims who worship at the altar of the "medical" priesthood --- have NOT BEEN CURED of chronic Lyme--"

You've been here long enough and done enough in depth research of your own (I hope) to know that there is no cure for chronic Lyme disease.

Can the symptoms be lessened? Often they can and are.

Can your life improve with the "right" treatment designed specifically for you? We hope and pray it can and often it does.

Do all LLMD's have all of the answers? Not by a long shot.

In fact, there has never been any study anywhere that proves early or chronic Lyme can be cured with ANY treatment what-so-ever.

The authors of the IDSA "guidelines" simply decided one day years ago during their rush to get a profitable vaccine on the market that Doxy and Amoxicillin were available, cheaper at the time than most other drugs, and they recommended an "arbitrary" (Raymond Dattwyler) duration for treatment time for anyone with Lyme.

So what do we have left once we are bitten and get sick from known and unknown pathogens that have no science showing a cure?

If you had a choice of going to a duck who says it is all in your head, belittles you and kicks you out the door so fast your head spins as your body rots away and your brains turn to grits....

Or going to someone who is educating themselves as hard and fast as possible to keep up with a nightmare of an exploding epidemic, and who is using any and all tools they have at their disposal to try to help you while risking it all to do so...

Which would it be?

The LLMD's can't change the wind, but they can adjust the sails.

--------------------
www.TreatTheBite.com
www.DrJonesKids.org
www.MarylandLyme.org
www.LymeDoc.org

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Tincup
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Wakeup said... "If anyone here could PM me with the name of a STRICT Burrascano doctor in the mid to North Westchester county NY area or in the Hudson Valley--- I would be grateful."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUwUp-D_VV0

--------------------
www.TreatTheBite.com
www.DrJonesKids.org
www.MarylandLyme.org
www.LymeDoc.org

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Tincup
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I have all the respect in the world for Dr. B and have fought as hard as anyone has to assist him and keep him going while he was needing help and he was helping others.

He is absolutely amazing.

That said...

Dr. B's "diagnostic hints" document is out of date. It is the best we have right now to use as "GUIDELINES", but there is a lot of newer science and clinical experiences that are not incorporated into them.

PLUS, one-size NEVER fits all here. NEVER. To say if you follow those protocols to a "t" you'll be cured is just plain old wrong.

I'd be dead right now if I had followed them to the letter, and many others would be too. And many others have been helped greatly by them. Great for some, not for others.

Just like one pair of pants won't fit everyone in the world, neither will one treatment protocol. We are all different and everyone's protocols must be tailored to fit them as an individual, to the best of our knowledge.

--------------------
www.TreatTheBite.com
www.DrJonesKids.org
www.MarylandLyme.org
www.LymeDoc.org

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duncan
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Which is why I wrote about the "one-size-cannot-fit- all-argument".
(Just in case you were referring to me, Tincup.)

This disease does not lend itself to a cookie-cutter model. None of the permutations I alluded to do.

btw, I am a big fan of yours. Regardless, some people, including people here, do claim they have been cured. Maybe we are cutting hairs, and dabbling in semantics, but I don't thinks so. To have Lyme and Company fall into abeyance, or to go dark and asymptomatic, is different than to be cured.

But as you know, most of us would gladly settle for that. Most of us would settle for far less - just to corral or mitigate our symptoms, for months or weeks or even days.

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WakeUp
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quote:
Originally posted by Tincup:
Wakeup said... "If anyone here could PM me with the name of a STRICT Burrascano doctor in the mid to North Westchester county NY area or in the Hudson Valley--- I would be grateful."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUwUp-D_VV0

Little boxes made of ticky tacky? What does this have to do with me or anything about Lyme disease or Burrascano?

You have a strange sense of humor--- I guess you like to mock people who don't kow tow--- for some unknown reason ? Why do you do this? I never did anything mean to you, Tincup.

I simply asked if you were cured.

Well are you cured?

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WakeUp
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quote:
Originally posted by Tincup:
I have all the respect in the world for Dr. B and have fought as hard as anyone has to assist him and keep him going while he was needing help and he was helping others.

He is absolutely amazing.

That said...

Dr. B's "diagnostic hints" document is out of date. It is the best we have right now to use as "GUIDELINES", but there is a lot of newer science and clinical experiences that are not incorporated into them.

PLUS, one-size NEVER fits all here. NEVER. To say if you follow those protocols to a "t" you'll be cured is just plain old wrong.

I'd be dead right now if I had followed them to the letter, and many others would be too. And many others have been helped greatly by them. Great for some, not for others.

Just like one pair of pants won't fit everyone in the world, neither will one treatment protocol. We are all different and everyone's protocols must be tailored to fit them as an individual, to the best of our knowledge.

Are you a doctor? Or do you just play one anonymously on internet forums?

Do you have a science credential? Research credentials? A PhD? an MD?

What makes you so much more qualified than anyone else here?

Attendance?

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WakeUp
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quote:
Originally posted by willbeatthis:
This is the nicest thing to come out of this thread. Wakeup, I hope that TF can give you this information soon. Are you not able to travel in the event you need to? I wish your friend and you healing Godspeed and that your wish for your friend is granted as I feel this is what this journey is truly all about- helping each other. May you be blessed in your pursuit for the both of you and you will certainly be in my thoughts and prayers. TF- thank you for coming forward as to always remind us that there is hope.

SixGoofy I believe is healed and countless others leave Lymenet and go on with their lives. There are so many pieces to each person's case- one must remember that as well. Godspeed WAKEUP!

Thank you-- you are so sweet. God bless you
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MichaelTampa
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I had been battling for about 10 years, the battle against candida, severely limiting fruits, and most of the time avoiding them entirely, along with all other sugars.

I do believe that over the last few weeks I finally got over/through/around that hurdle, thanks to finally eating fruits again.

I do know this sounds crazy to many of you, and I am sure that it would have sounded crazy to me most of the time during the last 10 years, but reality is reality, results are results, it is hard to argue against scoreboard. I would strongly suggest those battling the candida to open their mind to possibilities.

To be clear, I do not mean I went on an all-fruit diet. Not even close to that. I had spent years as vegan, so lots of grains and beans, and plentiful candida. I added in eggs and then animals, more for general nutrition, not specifically to help win the candida battle. But I noted that this opened up possibilities to use less grains and beans, the use of which I thought could have been making it impossible to win the candida battle. As I increased the amount of animals, and really decreased the grains/beans, my candida most definitely got worse. No doubt about it.

As I reduced back the animals, added a small amount of fruits with most meals, added a fruit-only snack late morning, added a snack late afternoon that was fruit with sometimes a small amount of greens ... the candida seems to have vanished, gone ... yes, by adding fruits.

By the way, my goal in adding fruit had nothing to do with the battle of the candida. I did this believing that some specific fruits would help with some digestive system issues, and that providing fruit-sugars would help me have better energy. I had read that giving the body fruit-sugar periodically means that I don't have to run on adrenaline, something that will not work well for someone whose adrenals are subpar and need to heal.

I was reluctant and fearing it would not work out, as a result of the candida. The books I read, recommended by someone I trusted, said otherwise. The books said that eating too much meat is a good way to grow candida, as it will rot in the stomach. This was exactly my experience when I increased the animals I ate. I imagine we all have different ability to digest animals, but I would suggest to those fighting candida to be aware of your body's response to eating different amounts of animals. At some point it may be too much, and despite the lack of sugars, it may be growing candida.

I read in these books that fruits do not cause candida, and some actually help fight it. This has been my experience. I should add that I did not just randomly eat all sorts of fruit, here and there. The fruits were chosen carefully, by reading these books, by using my pendulum testing. The amounts, the timing, what I ate these fruits with, all chosen very carefully.

Just as an example, the fruit I ate today were:

breakfast: 2 tsp "Deep Purple" (a Biopure product that is dried plum/pomegranate/acai)

mid-morning: 3/8 cup blueberries and 3/8 cup raspberries

lunch: one rehydrated dried apricot

late-afternoon: rehydrated 1/8 cup goji berries

dinner: one soaked date and one kiwi

I think this may be just a touch less than average for me these days, but about typical.

I think for me, some of the reality is, I need so many calories ... trying to get them from just grains/beans (and miniscule calories that come in most veggies) ... this may really feed candida, the slow to digest carbs. So if I replace this with animals, fine, but, that will really rot if too much, just takes more work and time to digest. Nuts/seeds are nice to a point, but also more difficult to digest. Fruits are a bit easier, and do provide energy, replacing some of the other choices with their problems. If some particular fruits also support improved digestion, and fight candida, that is a bonus.

The bigger problem I had with adding fruit was symptoms that were a lot more like C.Diff than candida came up. This has been something lurking in the background for years, popping up here and there. I was dx with C.Diff by stool test maybe 6 years ago. It was treated with alinia for a couple weeks, with at least some success, but my digestive system has not been the same since. We test from time to time, suspecting it is still there, and always negative, but we are not confident on the results. This time I responded with some C.Diff fighting foods according to these books--rosemary, aloe vera, papaya--and it has moved back into the background (at least, we can dream maybe a better result than this over time).

I also want to point out, there are at least a couple well respected cancer docs who don't at all buy the no-sugar approach for those with cancer. They believe that in the end it just breeds much stronger and hardier fungal infections (and worse cancer too). These docs do not dispute that there are short-term gains from this approach ... it is just that long-term, it looks to them a losing strategy.

For those interested, the books are titled "Life Changing Foods" and "Medical Medium", by Anthony William.

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patches10025
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A Start-Remove the five top acid forming foods from your diet.

Dairy, grains, most proteins, complex carbs, and most fats. Substitute fruits, some raw vegetables, a little cooked vegetables. Just a start to become less acidic.

Remember-an acidic body cannot heal and Lyme is only one symptom of this problem.

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Bartenderbonnie
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I Can't believe what I m reading

Patches, how hurtful for posting LLMD s are all wrong on a Lyme website.

Your simple statement dismisses all of our struggles and pains. It also dismisses our battles won and gains.

Did you think this would be helpful ?
Or did you post for optimal shock value to get our attention so you could promote your agenda ?

Oh yes, patches,
The solicitation of Mr. Fruits,berries and melon guy website, is your agenda.
Which, I might add, you have cleverly, not once, but twice,
included the link to in this thread alone !

Ah yes, dear patches, you ve been a busy advocate, because you also have solicited on:

01/01/2017 Breat cancer possible cure by marnie
01/03/2017 Antibiotics are out of control by medical establishment by patches10025
11/25/2016 Vital Reds-Has anyone used this? by MannaMe
10/08/2016 Has anyone tried the RNA? by ihslyme
02/22/2015 Are herxs slow to come on by sick Sam

Plus numerous other posts that you have deleted afterwards.

While I might not agree with what you post, I respect your right to post it. So why then, when I told you, in a public forum, that I was not interested, that you still continued to private message me until I had to block you?

Where was my respect?

Who died and left you boss as to the right way to treat ?

Then you have the superior inclination to ask "all Lyme patients who are cured to please stand up."

Well I would like to ask how many people here at lymenet have been solicited and harassed by private messages from patches10025 directing them to Mr fruits,berries, and melons website ?

And in closing, how could you state that Tincup is close-minded ? Are you serious ? She has been one of the most compassionate and knowledgable angels I have had the pleasure of meeting on my Lyme journey, amoung so many others here at lymenet.

We take care of each other and don't call each other names.

That, my dear is called respect.

You owe her an apology BIG TIME !

P.S. Almost forgot about you, Wakeup.

Who cares if Tincup is a doctor ? You clearly stated your misgivings about mainstream and LLMDs. Tincup does the WORK, tirelessly. She walks the walk.

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patches10025
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Wow. Ms. Bartender,

You are so upset. I am sorry if you are that offended.

Of course, you apparently never really investigated what I said, but only want to defend your beliefs.

Anyway, I hope you have now been cured of your Lyme-I wonder though since you are so energized to tell me off like this diatribe from you.

Wishing you well...

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Bartenderbonnie
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I investigated you.
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jsnyde2
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Hi Patches,
I think this doc is onto something, but like others, I am afraid of lots of fruit with my candida, which I can hold at bay with like zero sugar. Including fructose. : (

Plus, I feel better with protein. But I do notice my system does not digest vegetables well, which is counter to everything I have ever been taught. I definitely digest fruit the best!

And as far as abx go, yeah, they messed my stomach up bad. I always wonder if my Lyme would have healed without anyway, as I am a good healer.

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patches10025
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Listen, when your body is truly alkaline, then your Lyme will not be a problem. Period.


Ask real doctors(healers) if this is not true.

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sixgoofykids
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quote:
Originally posted by patches10025:
All Lyme patients who are "cured" please stand up...

ME!!! No Lyme since 2009 and do nothing but lead a healthy lifestyle to stay this way.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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patches10025
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https://www.facebook.com/groups/1528289644129558/

I know this method is somewhat extreme for some, but look at all the persons who have healed and are so grateful for the protocol. They do not categorize their malady, whether Lyme or anything else. Their concern is system that is broken and cannot detox and move into alkalinity.


It does not have to be as extreme; there are variations. But it is truly a healing that most are not aware.

Why not give it a try. Within a few weeks, you will know.

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sixgoofykids
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Patches, do you sell this system? It seems like you're advertising it.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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patches10025
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No, not at all.

I am using it. With many others, possibly 10,000.

I have spent most of my life-over 50 years-trying to get to the root cause of my chronic fatigue and brain fog, including a blood test that said I was Lyme positive.

This is the only thing that has worked. Why wouldn't it? Detoxing and clearing your lymphatic system and eating non-acidic food is the most effective way to health. Fasting is even more effective. All the great masters say that.

I am only sharing my happiness from this wonderful protocol. I am not selling anything.

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jsnyde2
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Patches, is there a text version of the protocol? I am way too Type A to watch a video of that length.

It is eating Alkaline, and what else? Herbal tinctures can't be tolerated by me at this time, after abx and large doses of herbal tinctures, so I hope that is not required...

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patches10025
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Here is the long version. You can start as slowly as you like...with a fruit and vegetable diet, then gradually add the herbs, psyllium pudding and the fasting and the grape juice.

https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/Master-Fast-Protocol-%20feb-10-2017.pdf?token=AWxZDgXzFnJLvMkuLUgg2TMdwJ4CATrkMWrAxq98b83KHb6TNeghkoqr9tiNoF_FdwSb4trT1di8vEFEMSEUFrMgXcJaxh0bCyzhi aPfGh86WsAJQlYiktFi-azt5nAfwvCFihmjicRjIQpKyeEIs8Os


The other way is to just do the herbs and a fruit based diet from Dr. Robert Morse.


https://www.drmorsesherbalhealthclub.com/pages/about-dr-morse

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patches10025
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http://masterfastsystem.com/directions-for-use/
Posts: 254 | From Westchester, NY | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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