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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Treat diagnoses or treat a whole human being?

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Author Topic: Treat diagnoses or treat a whole human being?
Brussels
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I keep reading people labeling their diseases with all sorts of names, new syndromes, etc.

The list of diagnoses a chronic lyme patient has just keeps increasing:

more and more coinfections,
more and more Borrelia types,
mold illnesses,

CFS,
fibromyalgia,
chronic candida,

MCS,
electro-smog-sensibility,
chronic viruses,

mast cell activation disorder,
chronic allergies,
Hashimoto thyroid,

MS,
Chron's disease,
autoimmune diseases,

SIBO,
Celiac disease,
genetic detox problems,

MTHFR mutations,
IBS,

tinnitus,
nutrient malabsorption,

gall bladder inflammation /stones,
liver inflammation,

recurrent / chronic cystitis or kidney infections,

metabolic disorders,
enzyme deficiency diseases,

etc


We all know that all these diseases are sort of 'cousins' to lyme disease.

If these diseases are somewhat related, what in fact is causing all these labels of diseases??

What is the real use of getting a label?

Go home happy to have 'found' what you had?


Why are these syndromes and illnesses multiplying in my body, and I have barely any control over these increasing number of illnesses, just piling up?

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Brussels
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I'm reading a book called Biological Medicine, and one of the first points of the book is about Medicine itself:

- shall the doctors treat DIAGNOSES or shall doctors treat the PATIENT??


When physical symptoms come, they are just the tip of the iceberg:

- the whole problem is under water, which is a problem of REGULATION.


Regulation problems cause illnesses in body systems (digestive, immune, detox etc) which in turn, cause physical symptoms (the LABELS of diagnoses).

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Brussels
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What disturbs regulation?


Excess of toxins and excess of infections (they go hand in hand)

Radiation (electrosmog) or geopathic problems

suppression of diseases with suppressive treatments (anti acid, anti histaminic, anti infectious drugs, vacines, anti-everything)

(the logic is: by suppressing a symptom without treating its causes, the disease changes and goes deeper in other body systems, with milder symptoms but chronic, very long term...)

lack of proper nutrients (not only food, minerals, good oils, but light, healthy magnetic fields)

stress (emotional): it can cause a considerable amount of damage to inner regulation

interference fields (like scars from surgeries, or infectious focii, or accidents, or even from older infections, dead teeth, wisdom teeth....)

(these scarred areas disturb the regulation, either by disturbing inner meridians or by disturbing the photon field around the body)

structural problems (like spine problems, skull problems, or biting/ jaw problems...)

...

I have to go now, I'll continue later...

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Blackstone
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All of these things are very different and in many cases, may be more names of "symptoms" than entirely different diseases. They may also be caused or act as secondary effects in certain cases. For instance...

Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS/ME etc..) and Fibromyalgia are basically diagnoses of symptoms - certain kinds of fatigue, certain kinds of pain without other explanation. Now up until recently, many doctors didn't believe these were actual physical illnesses and/or didn't know what was causing them, so they named the symptom group instead. Now this is not to say that the name has no value - it helped get a lot of patients and physicians aware of and interested in the condition. However, for a number of reasons too long to go into here, medicine tends to want to codify and understand everything in a simple A > B > C method. Problems arise when the causes for Symptom A can be a multitude of Issue B's, especially when they are poorly understood, hard to diagnose, or complex.

Lyme patients could be said to have CFS or Fibro type symptoms, but they are caused by Lyme and other tick-borne coinfections. However, some people with CFS may have it because of a herpetic virus, or because of some sort of metabolic issue, or another underlying cause. Since CFS was poorly understod, even today you have patients and specialists alike saying "Oh CFS is caused by X!" because they found a population of people for whom that was true. However, then when another population with that diagnosis come along who don't seem to respond to the treatments for X, they claim "well, we don't know why - maybe you didn't really have CFS at all" complicating the issue; to say nothing for misdiagnosis in the first place! Its all very individual and that's the problem

Things like MCS, electro-sensitivity, gluten sensitivity and food allergies, likely arise because of the system being overly bogged down by a particular causative agent. Some Lyme patients like myself, don't have these type of symptoms at all. The same is true of autoimmune -based illnesses that arise because the body is constantly fighting so to speak or some sort of other imbalance. Likewise, metabolic syndromes and inflammation overall.

Genetic-related issues are another possibility, but its important to remember both genetics and epigenetics are effected by the environment. For instance, a good 2/3 of caucausians (higher and lower in different varied ethnicity) have some sort of MTHFR "bad" allele , but clearly lots of people are healthy regardless. Now, is it possible that if someone gets a difficult chronic illness having a "bad" allele will make it harder to detox? Possibly. Likewise, its also possible that some people may have certain issues because they have a great number of stacking genetic issues and thus the underlying main reason for their illness. We do have to be careful in, especially genetic testing, and assuming that because someone has a mutant type allele somewhere that was the "problem" , giving you one more thing to focus on, when it may have no real effect on your particular disease process.


There are a lot of possibilities and they're very individual. Overall, it is most important to take a look at symptoms and then look for underlying causes before addressing for treatment. When someone new pops up, it may very well be a secondary side effect of chronic illness itself in one way or another; being sick is hard on the body! So it is important to keep looking for underlying issues and taking care of them with an adroit healthcare team.

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Keebler
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-
The question really hits a trigger:

Q: Treat diagnoses or treat a whole human being?


It's not so much about the name of disease or condition as the CAUSE, or causes. And then there are the influences, other things that affect and matter, too.

The diagnosis is often wrong. Very wrong.

But in "treating a whole human being" some interpret that as "just get the body stronger and the body will correct itself"

so that what I bristle at.

Yet, indeed, the whole body must be tended to in a common sense way. But it's usually not enough unless just nutrient deficiency or lack of rest, proper care was the cause of the problem --

- or as in asthma (too often a so-called immune disorder) the environment is perhaps both cause and tirgger - especially children who live near freeways and busy streets have more / worse asthma. It may not be autoimmune for them at all but bad air.

I've never seen anyone connect the dots between the increased lung conditions and leaf blowers (which are everywhere, each day of the year). Just walking within two or three blocks of where a leaf blower is sweeping the walk or parking lot - or having a window open -- well, even once being around all that is flying about from the ground that is going into a pair of lungs, well - damage happens.

I once called one of the top lung patient advocacy groups to ask them if anyone was working to help people understand the importance of not being around leaf blowers.

I was blown away when told, no, that's no problem. The real problem is that too many have not been using their inhalers correctly as often as told.

And those who are forced to live near polluted bodies of water - or near other contaminated areas . . . what is being called autoimmune is so often a matter of poisoning.

The names of a disease or condition may not tell the whole truth, though. Most often, the name can be a smoke screen.

And it is often up to the patient - along with other doctors who are more educated or eager to learn more to find out what the actual causes are - often not what the official medical system might say.

What seems to make the most sense:

Treat the physical cause(s) of the problem -

while - while - while - while -

nourishing and nurturing the body & spirit.

If you don't address, if you ignore the cause(s) that underlying infection or nutrient deficiency or system dysfunction then all the other avenues can be in vain.

I cannot tell you how many doctors just want to ignore the underlying issues - maybe they are lazy, biased or just ignorant - but nothing is going to work if the underlying causes are ignored.

I can't tell you how many doctors dismissed my colon troubles - and even did the celiac tests wrong, told me that was not the problem when - after genetic tests and avoidance of gluten - well, they had just be flat wrong - and cruel in their dismissal. I know I'm not the only one is that position.

Yet, for many it's also not just discovering one major piece of the puzzle.

Finally a proper diagnosis of celiac solved many probomes for me but certianly not the major ones.

[editing here and just toast so I have to leave this transition choppy]

underlying infection is the most common, from where I stand. This is an area that has been so dismissed, chronic stealth infections and their complexity.

Most in the medial system know nothing about how chronic stealth infections really work - or that it can take months or years to achieve success - or that it requires a combination approach that might need to be frequently adjusted - or that each patient might require varied approaches.

Understanding how each such infection actual works, the science of it all, well, that is usually not found in the typical doctor's office. They don't get this kind of training or freedom to learn.

And, many doctors are taught that patients who present with complex cases are not ill at all but lazy.

So, if we think the typical doctor is the one who understands it all, we're not going to get answers. Most of those with lyme have figured this out but the typical doctors, the medical system is still screaming and holding fast to their old way of thinking.

We have to turn to those who have stepped out, stepped up to learn more, do better. And we have to do the same.

My biggest complaint and what caused the most damage was how the medical system has been so quick to call everything an autoimmune disease and leave it at that when - certainly in my case and for many with tick-borne disease - chronic stealth infections were the cause of immune dysfunction.

Treating just immune issues can cause so much damage because these doctors did not / do not understand how lyme, TBD actually work. They don't even admit they exist.

And to all the non-LL NDs who used to say "get the body stronger and you will succeed" also were clueless. Some still are. If there is infection, that advice is dangerous, too.

So, what I've learned that most here have had to learn, too, is that we support our bodies while searching out the actual causes (and it's usually more than one).

But this goes beyond just tick borne disease. There is so much to learn.
-

[ 03-30-2018, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Brussels
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Chronic stealth infection is what we think as major causes of our illnesses - because that is how the body MANIFESTS disease.

But what causes chronic infections in one patient and NOT in another?

Just look at tick bites, or cold viruses.

If every INFECTED tick bite caused CHRONIC lyme disease, I don't think there would be more than a couple of people in my region WITHOUT chronic lyme.

Statistics show that NOT everybody goes to chronic lyme after an infected tick bite.

Some recover after a course of antibiotics, while others do not.

Infections and toxins come hand in hand together. And they are only one item in the list above.

The mouth, teeth, focal infections, dead teeth, wisdom teeth etc is another big factor contributing to chronic illnesses - autoimmne conditioins, RA, joint pain, immune diseases, allergies....

Very few MDs are treating patients for these problems. No matter what you do, if the teeth / mouth / jaws are not clean, it will be very hard to heal. That's what biological medicine states.


Another big issue is Electrosmog and Geopathic stress. If you are sensitive as some of us here, you can just 'guess' how bad this can be.

Just to have low Melatonin (it seems that some people get 90% reduction in melatonin with Esmog in the bedroom) is a BIG issue: as melatonin detoxes the brain, and is a big supporting hormone for the immune system.

Suppose you treat infections, but forget that you need a good quality of sleep, with enough melatonin: well, the infection will come back, as soon as the antimicrobials are finished...

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Keebler
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As to why some develop to chronic lyme / TBD or other chronic stealth infections and others do not, yeah, a good question but that does not justify a conclusion that the infection is not then requiring treatment in those who deal with it.

One might ask the same about HIV? Yet no one will deny that someone ill with HIV / AIDS should have treatment for the infection.

Some people walk away from a car crash while others are carted away. That some can walk away does that mean those who are crushed should get no attention?


No one is arguing that attending to the whole body is not vital. And most if not all ILADS LLMDs and LL NDs have had the full body approach for decades, starting with Burrascano's guidelines over 20 years ago.


Q: Suppose you treat infections, but forget that you need a good quality of sleep . . . .

Then one is not treating the infection.

Treating involves both broad areas: address infection(s) & support body.

But supporting the body and not addressing the infection (if there) can fail miserably.

I seen no one here ever say - hey, let's just treat infection but lets not do a thing to help my body manage all this. This group here is the most proactive "what all must I do to make this work" bunch I've ever seen.

It's very hard work and we may never know all the science about the human body or about each of the more than dozens of tick-borne infections.

There is so much more to learn, we do know quite a bit now, though and we would do well to keep in mind the science of each one - how they work, hide, gang up and communicate with each other, even.

But we can't wait for for all the detail to come we have to act on what we know now and - as per our individual needs, move ahead (or sometimes, be a bit more patient).

Yet, I get the feeling that the push with this thread is to say that, oh, really, these infections are not pernicious, not that pervasive. Just support the body and the infections will take care of themselves. That rarely works.

Both are require: treat infection & support body - and each is a broad range of detective work and ever-adjusting action plans.

It can be hard to sort through it all sometimes and to remember that not all symptoms are necessarily this or that infection but just go with the territory for anyone in ill health.

Yet, there are also some very specific things that TBD do to the body and if we ignore the science of all that we can be chasing our tails.

This is not an either / or question. It's not even a "why me?" question though, over time, one's one genetic make up or habits, or environmental stressors can be helpful to figure out a more effecient (?) way forward . . .

bottom line is that if the infection is there it had better get addressed in a thorough manner (of which there are choices).

And the body had better get the best support possible.

Yet, as we all know mostly due to lack of resources, it's very rare that anyone is really able to get the full scope of treatment and support. It seems everyone is just doing the best they can - often without a properly educated doctor - left on their own without money for even good food or shelter.

So all this debate still usually comes back to how each of us can proceed covering the most important bases.

That's why I like to find things that do cover more than one base.

And, backing up to your first post with names of diseases, it was helpful to me to drop most of the labels long ago.

I address body parts or functions when consider what else my "lungs" might need . . . or "for my liver" I might change this. Makes it feel more like a team sport and adds just a touch of humor at times, too. Gotta consider them all, make 'em all happy sort or attitude.

Yet, where such "labels" have been good to me: celiac is just one example. Thank goodness that was finally figured out. But I don't treat "my celiac" I simply take care of my gut, my brain and that's by avoiding gluten.

The label allowed me to determine how to feel a whole lot better by following certain scientific rules of that diagnosis.

And I've also learned that the "you probably have 'MS' labels many flustered doctors just left me with . . . well, later I came to understand how many doctors just use -- even invent labels -- as a way to get rid of whole groups of complex patients.

Later would learn that many with lyme were slapped with the "MS' label, etc. Same with IBS, etc. We have to sort it all out as to when symptoms, a condition is just part of the bigger picture (and often classic lyme, etc.) - or when it might be separate.

But there is little that we have the luxury to just disregard. All this is a lot of work and I just want to say how impressed I am with so many who deal with lyme, TBD, etc. who work so hard to find out what they need to do get better.

My hope is that someday there will be the kinds of doctors all around so that no one needs get to such a disabling place.

In the meantime, a good time to appreciate the forum of LymeNet as a place to discuss, to learn, to hope.
-

[ 03-31-2018, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Brussels
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I never said we don't need to treat infections...

Infections is JUST one of the parts that went wrong in our health. Everyone is treating infections, that is not the point.

The point is: how to stop the body to produce infections, on and on again?

How to stop falling ill at every insect bite or tick bite?

Yes, whole body support is what we need, not diagnoses.

that's exactly the point, as you said: 'to cover more than one base'.

Labels won't help people out. It's nice to know you don't focus on labels either!

Some people get happy to know they finally got a label: 'lyme disease', MS, MCAD, chronic candidiosis, fibromyalgia, etc

Some doctors think chronic lyme disease is also a syndrome, in a way. I somehow think they have a point, as categorizing lyme as an 'infectious disease' only does not seem to describe what most people are suffering:

all the neuro symptoms, hormonal problems, mounting allergies, muscle wasting, tinnitus, eye problems, teeth problems /jaw included,

... insomnia, all the neuro pains, digestion problems / nutrient absorption problems, psycho symptoms of all sorts,

... liver pains, vertigo, nausea, etc etc...


Calling it merely 'infectious' does not address properly the cause (as an infectious tick bite does not make EVERY single person ill to attain chronicity, meaning years, decades of illness),...

... nor the treatment (as if you don't address toxicity, for example, or the symptom management part, you sort of can't go through the infections part of lyme treatment....).

That is why I find that addressing the whole body (diet, organs, toxins, interference fields, psycho support, etc) is still a much better way to deal with any chronic disease...

I think we're not that different in the way of thinking, Keebler!

I'm off lyme for the last 9 years, but I know that I still have weaknesses that need to be addressed, if I would like to be less prone to suffer from any chronic illness...

so I'm still in treatment.

I just watched a conference about cancer from dr Rau, and the way he treats cancer is not that different from treating chronic lyme.

Infections are a total part of cancer, he says, many L forms are present, most cancer patients have root canals as one cause, or chronic viruses (some are possibly CAUSATIVE of cancer, even for 'common' western medicine).

So he never forgets the infectious part, not even in cancer treatment.

That is the point: he treats people, not labels!

But as I said, it is just one part of cancer treatment.

He said that the GUT is at the center point of any treatment for cancer or infections. Correcting the milieu of the gut, he meant, with diet, probiotics, aminoacids, alkalinization, giving isopathics, etc...

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Brussels
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The book called Biological Medicine (more than 500 pages) explain in not too complex ways, how Paracelsus clinic treats most patients.

No matter which disease, they go through more or less the same type of checklist and treatments.

He details the thoughts of Enderlein, how our mitochondria, ribossomes, Golgi complex inside cells are in fact, part of the way bacteria are formed!

In their lower valences (proteins), they form good and helpful organ cells, even the red blood cell if I understood well, comes from a healthy development of certain precursors of bacteria (they call them endobionts).

In their higher valences (viruses, bacteria, fungi), they may be pathogenic.

Enderlein was one of the first scientists that based most of his theories on the dark field microscope. By observing what happens there, in live blood, lymph etc...

It has little to do with what we learn in school, and about 99% of MDs have never heard about it, no clue about what goes on in dark field microscopy...

Sanum therapy is based on those Enderlein studies, and only now, I start to be more familiar with its details, how their type of isopathy may work.

Dr Rau writes that the body is not a fixed entity, nor disease. It's in constant transformation. Changes in pH means everything for the proteins and bacteria.

Depending on what we eat, Enderlein saw changes live in his darkfield microscope.

In a normal western lab, scientists only use the same pH to test, observe, etc, that is why they only see fixed forms of bacteria (in one single stage).

The changeability of Borrelia is one example: depending on the condition of the milieu you'll get more of one form than other forms (pleomorphism). That is totally dependent on the milieu!!

It's quite fascinating, I find.

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Keebler
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Clarification. Language. Words. It's all so tricky to communicate - I think the hardest non-physical task of all in being a human. Where I got tripped up:

Two posts above you say: "I never said we don't need to treat infections."

Yet I was going on the question that started the thread. The "or" - one or the other. The way it's phrased implies either the first approach - or - the second.

"Topic: Treat diagnoses or treat a whole human being?"


As it works out, it's usually never one or the other approach. So much to consider. Rarely is it a case of - "or" - or of which approach as more of a mixing and matching "and also . . . ."

Mostly, in my posts, I just wanted to make sure that one one fell under the spell that clobbered me early on to "just get the body stronger and the body will banish all problems" -- that wasted years of my life and likely put me very far back.

Although I never had access to proper treatment and I was hoping that the bad advice I got might work. Just taking care of myself was never enough against such infections. Ever.

I just want to make that very clear to anyone new to all this.

Yet, a good discussion is prompted in the thread subject line, with the word "diagnosis" which can also be distinct from the underlying cause.

Many "diagnoses" are actually wrong when umbrella and trash can labels abound in our medical system - when it's easier for most doctors to slap on a label instead of looking for the actual causes.

One thing that chronic illness does for many is to broaden their scope and detective skills. So while I may have taken the question quite literally (either / or) and caution never to ignore infection where present

your emphasis that there is so much more to this also speaks to the reality of it all.

As often happens an "either - or" question is usually never easy nor simple.
-

[ 04-05-2018, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Brussels
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Yep, language is always a tricky point.
We need a brain to interpret language, and I remember well, during active lyme, I had terrible times trying to UNDERSTAND any paragraph.


Treating a whole human being = treating ALSO infections, of course.

It does not EXCLUDE treating infections, because that is what we are: a whole microbiome, with pathogenic and beneficial microbes, that go up and down the 'valence' (in Enderlein's terms.....)


Diagnoses such as ALS, MS, fibro, tinnitus, etc: how can we treat without knowing the cause(s)?

Treatment of diagnoses by drugs is more like symptom management, in my view...

It serves more for short term purposes: like taking aspirin for a headache or antiacids for a stomach ache...

Or to make the patient forever dependent on chemical drugs just to keep going.


Treatment of a whole human being DOES NOT exclude treating infections, of course.

But it includes treating a person's weaknesses too: such as geopathic /EMR stress, nutritional deficiencies, the mouth (teeth, cavitations etc), blocked acupuncture meridians, correct the person's diet etc...


There is a HUGE difference between treating a guy with a diagnosis of 'chronic migraines' by giving a guy morphine or strong pain killers...

... and treating the guy's whole body (gut, detox, diet, EMR/ geopathic stress, mouth, increasing cell wall potential etc), so that his migraines may not come anymore one day.


That is what I'm trying to talk about.

For guys just starting lyme treatment, well, this is only BLA BLA BLA. [Roll Eyes]


This thread is more for the experienced ones!! [Big Grin]


I mean, veterans that have tried MANY things over the YEARS, possibly DECADES even, and still can't say they are healthy...

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