LymeNet Home LymeNet Home Page LymeNet Flash Discussion LymeNet Support Group Database LymeNet Literature Library LymeNet Legal Resources LymeNet Medical & Scientific Abstract Database LymeNet Newsletter Home Page LymeNet Recommended Books LymeNet Tick Pictures Search The LymeNet Site LymeNet Links LymeNet Frequently Asked Questions About The Lyme Disease Network LymeNet Menu

LymeNet on Facebook

LymeNet on Twitter




The Lyme Disease Network receives a commission from Amazon.com for each purchase originating from this site.

When purchasing from Amazon.com, please
click here first.

Thank you.

LymeNet Flash Discussion
Dedicated to the Bachmann Family

LymeNet needs your help:
LymeNet 2020 fund drive


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations.

LymeNet Flash Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » my past doctor visit

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: my past doctor visit
lazerorca
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 4689

Icon 10 posted      Profile for lazerorca     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
so yeah I got my results back from igenex. i had an igenex positive for IgG

the bands were
31 ++
34 +/-
39 ++
41 +

was kinda hoping for a CDC positive but whatever this is fine. no positive for PCR or IgM antibody test

i am starting a new medication known as sceptra. don't know anything about it. Nurse C told me that it is used in HIV patients also. she said this should help me to get into the deep brain tissue. they believe that my pituitary gland has been affected by lyme which is kinda scary. they are going to run blood tests on my pituitary gland next time I am in huntersville.

my testosterone level continues to be low. they weren't able to gimme a shot in the raleigh office, but i am going to do a free 30 day trial offer of androgel to hold me over until my next doctor's visit. my mother thinks my hair is coming back but i don't think it is. still looks VERY thin and looks as if it is getting thinner. and to me, it looks like male pattern baldness. it is thinning at the crown and on top of my head and in the front. the sides and back seem to be unaffected which leads me to believe it is male pattern baldness. i am thinking about seeing a dermatologist to confirm my suspicions.

my tremors seem to be spreading which is kinda freaking me out. this sh*t is supposed to be getting better. i have really notice no reduction in my tremors. other things seem to be lifting, but this is not. i have been moved up to 100 mg topomax to help with the tremors. she told me topomax is also used sometimes to help with weight loss, so hopefully that will be to my advantage also since I am at the HEAVIEST I have ever been in my life. 185 pounds. which is not obese or anything, but i am 5'11" and my normal weight is about 150. I am finding it hard to shed the pounds.

overall though i do feel much better than when i started. some things are beginning to lift. my cognitive abilities seem to be improving and I think my memory is getting much better. my sleeping is still very eradic. I mean b4 lyme, I was pretty bad when it came to sleep, but when i did go to sleep it was a deep sleep. now i don't seem to have problems falling asleep. actually i feel as if i am tired ALL OF THE TIME and honestly I can make myself fall asleep at any time, but I never stay asleep for longer than an hour or 2 unless I am drinking alcohol. alcohol makes me sleep SOOO GOOD!!! too bad alcohol and lyme treatment don't mix. but it is very frustrating that i want sleep but my body will not lemme sleep. i think that my problem is maybe tied to my pituitary gland. i am thinking that when i do sleep I never reach the deeper levels of sleep... i know that sleep is supposed to progress into certain levels like REM and non-REM sleep and stuff like that. I am thinking that either I am not staying in these deeper levels of sleep long enough or that i am not even making it to these deeper levels of sleep in the first place. i don't know if these are absolutely necessary, but i know that studies done back in the day with sleep showed that people that were woke up as the deep sleep was first initiating went "crazy" after a few weeks. haha i don't think i have gone "crazy" tho.

i need to find that info on this site about the specific bands. i had it at one point. I know that 41 is a non specific band that shows up in practically everyone. but i can't remember about the others. I think 31 and 39 are specific to lyme if my memory serves me right. actually the paper with dr. b, I couldn't seem to access the other day. i was trying to give it to a fellow lyme patient that goes to the same doc as I. i was gonna give it to her so she could follow the diet and supplement regimen.

i failed to mention anything about magnesium therapy, BUT the doc's office that we go to in raleigh does holistic therapy. i sneaked a pamphlet in my pocket and I am gonna give this guy a call. I am gonna see what he thinks about this. i am sure he prolly have a regimen for lyme patients.

that is all that I can think about to mention as of now. I will reply later when i have more time if I can think of anything else that went on with my visit


Posts: 255 | From Greenville, NC, USA | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829

Icon 10 posted      Profile for Tincup         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hey laz...

Good detailed report. I am so glad you are getting help!

I am VERY MUCH needing the sleep you speak about.. so please excuse this short note. I am WAY past my bedtime. I just didn't want you feeling alone tonight... so I am posting a quick reply before I crash.

Here is an article that you may find interesting.

I would chat about the bands with you.. but I am so droopy I am afraid I will mess it up.

Hope this article I pulled up will help in the meantime. Others should be by in the morning.. bright eyed and bushy tailed.

And I hope you are feeling MUCH better.. real soon.


Explaining Borreliosis (Lyme) Western Blot Tests

There is no universal agreement on what defines a positive Western blot.

Good laboratories use different criteria to interpret borreliosis blots. At the 1999 international borreliosis
and tick-borne infection conference, Sam Donta, M.D. lectured. Dr. Donta is a full professor of Infectious
Disease at Boston University School of Medicine. He said that if a patient has just one
borreliosis-associated antibody on their Western blot, you may assume they have borreliosis. Richard
Horowitz, M.D. said the same thing in his lecture, at that same conference.

Research I presented in 1998 involving over 400 borreliosis patients, showed an 87% response rate to
antibiotics. This was if they had one borreliosis-associated antibody on their blot. So if there is enough
suspicion that Lyme borreliosis is the cause of a patient's symptoms, so much so that a Western blot is
ordered, then if only one borreliosis-associated antibody is found, it is significant!

Medical literature is replete with statements about false positive test results for Lyme borreliosis. Since
1988, I have diagnosed and treated well over 600 borreliosis patients. Only 2 of those patients with a
positive borreliosis test did not respond to antibiotics. This is a 99% success rate!

So in the trenches of day-to-day medical practice, false positive borreliosis tests are not an issue. In
retrospect, those 2 patients that did not respond to antibiotics may have also had babesiosis. In my
practice, many borreliosis patients also have babesiosis, another tick-borne infection that causes the same
symptoms as Lyme borreliosis.

Babesiosis is caused by a protozoa, which is a different germ type than a bacteria, virus, fungus or yeast.
The placebo effect would not explain a 99% response rate. Those borreliosis associated antibodies should
not be there, in patients with symptoms.

A placebo is like a sugar pill, that has no effect. A placebo effect occurs because patients believe in the pill
they are taking, even though it is a sugar pill. The human mind causes the response. Placebo effects
should more likely be about 20-30%, not a 99% response rate.

False negative test results are the real problem in diagnosing borreliosis. Research has shown that you
have to do the right test (the Western blot), done at the right laboratory (one that specializes in testing
borreliosis), and done the correct way (shipped express delivery early in the week). The right test to screen
for borreliosis is the Western blot. Research I presented in Bologna, Italy in 1994 at the international
borreliosis conference showed this.

Other screening tests, such as the IFA, EIA, ELISA, and PCR DNA probe were often negative when the
Western Blot was positive! Other doctors like myself who diagnose and treat a lot of borreliosis patients,
go straight to the Western blot as their screening test.

Medical articles abound stating that it is best to do a screening test, such as an ELISA, and if it is positive,
then confirm it with a Western blot. But the ELISA is often negative when the Western blot is positive so,
the right test is the Western blot.

*** It lets you see exactly which antibodies are present. The "right laboratory" means one that specializes
in borreliosis testing. In the past, I have done head to head comparisons with 3 different regular labs.
Western blots were drawn and sent on the same day to 2 different labs. The labs that specialize in
borreliosis testing typically found borrelia-associated antibodies, that the regular laboratories missed. If
these specialty labs find a borrelia antibody, I trust it to be significant, because patients respond to
antibiotics.

**You get what you pay for, so use a lab that specializes in borreliosis. The right way to process the
Western blot specimen means for the blood to be drawn and express mailed early in the week. Research
shows the borrelia antibodies have the potential to clump together, resulting in false negative test results.
So far, unclumping has not been practical for laboratories to do.

The fresher the specimen, the more accurate the test results. Patients at our office are scheduled Monday,
Tuesday, or Wednesday if testing is to be done. This way, express shipping will assure that the specimen
does not spend the weekend sitting at the post office. This is the right way to test and ship borreliosis
specimens.

Western blots look for antibodies. These antibodies are made by your immune system. In this case, the
antibodies are made to fight against different parts of the Lyme bacteria, which is called Borrelia
burgdorferi, and other Borrelia species. In other words, your immune system does not make one big
antibody against the whole bacteria. So, when you see a number on a borreliosis Western blot, it
corresponds to a specific part of the bacteria.

Compare it to the old story of different blind people touching an elephant. Based on the part of the
elephant each one touched, each person had their own perception. Likewise, the antibodies attach to
different and specific parts of Borrelia burgdorferi.

Numbers on Western blots correspond to weights. Kilodaltons (kDa) are the units used for these
microscopic weights. Think of it like pounds or ounces. An 18 kDa antibody weighs 18 kilodaltons. To do
a Western blot, thin gel strips are impregnated with the various parts of Borrelia burgdorferi. Each of the
numbers, 18 through 93, on the test result form, is a part of the bacteria.

Blood is made up of red blood cells and serum; Spinning blood in a centrifuge separates serum from red
blood cells and other things, like white blood cells and platelets.

Serum contains antibodies made by the immune system. Electricity is used to push the serum through the
thin gel strips for the Western blot. If there are any antibodies against parts of Borrelia burgdorferi present
in your serum, and these parts are impregnated on the strip, the antibody will complex (bind) to that part.

When antibodies form a complex, it is called an antigen-antibody complex. Anything foreign in the body
is an antigen, such as a ragweed pollen particle, germ, cancer, and even a splinter.

In the case of borreliosis, the various parts of Borrelia burgdorferi are all antigens. Though each antigen is
different, they all come from the same bacteria. So all the numbers that are positive on the test report are
due to antigen-antibody complexes.

If enough of the complexes are formed, eventually it may be seen with the naked eye as a dark band. -
Band intensity reflects how dark or wide it is. Controversy exists about band intensity. Many would say
the " +/-" equivocal bands are not significant. The problem I have with that, is that there are "-" negative
bands. The lab has no trouble calling some bands negative. So they must be seeing something when they
put "+/-" at some bands.

The only thing that makes sense, is that there is a little bit of that antibody present in your serum. If the
"+/-" equivocal is reported on the borrelia associated bands, it is usually significant, in my clinical
experience. This is a strong clue that I am on the right track.

Instead of ignoring these, they should be a red flag to keep pursuing a laboratory diagnosis. Giving
patients 4 weeks of antibiotics (usually tetracycline, 500 mg, 3 times a day), will convert a negative or
equivocal Western blot to positive in about 36% of cases.

As mentioned, if these positive blots are found by specialty labs, over 99% of those patients will respond
to antibiotics.

Sometimes multiple antibiotics have to be tried before the patient feels better. Antibiotics may actually
help with the laboratory diagnosis. But patients need to be off antibiotics about 10 to 14 days before the
Western blot is repeated. This sounds like a contradiction. Antibiotics may help convert the test to
positive, but patients need to be off antibiotics when the specimen is drawn.

It is well documented in medical literature that the presence of antibiotics may cause false negative
borreliosis testing. Therefore, your system should be free of all antibiotics for an accurate blot result.

When the Lyme borrelia are alive, they are geniuses at avoiding the immune system. They may do things
like go inside your white blood cells, and come out enclosed by the cell membrane of your own white
blood cells! This may partly explain why antibodies against Borrelia burgdorferi are often not found when
patients are tested.

What may happen when patients are given 4 weeks of tetracycline (or other antibiotics) is that some of the
bacteria die. When Borrelia burgdorferi dies, it is less efficient at avoiding the immune system. That's
when antibodies may be formed against Borrelia burgdorferi, converting the negative or equivocal
Western blot to positive, in about 36% of cases.

If a borreliosis Western blot is going to be positive, it is usually the first one that is positive. The second
blot is the next most likely to be positive, and so on, until the fifth blot.

After that, the curve levels off for conversion to positive. This is based on research I presented in Bologna,
Italy in 1994. Some patients had borrelia-associated antibodies finally show on their tenth Western blot!
Two Western blots from a reliable lab usually gives the answer.

If a third test is needed, a Lyme Urine Antigen Test (LUAT) is done instead of a third Western blot.
Positive LUATs correspond very highly to patients getting better with antibiotics. False positive LUATs
have not been a problem in my practice. The LUAT finds the actual antigen (Borrelia burgdorferi itself),
so arguably it should be the test of choice, but the Western blot is rn6re widely accepted, even though it
looks for the antibodies against Borrelia burgdorferi.

The presence of antibodies are indirect evidence of an infection, not direct evidence like shown in the
LUAT. On the Western blot test result form, please note what is "considered positive" and "considered
equivocal." Equivocal is another way of saying suspicious or almost positive.

Below this are the ASTPHLD/CDC recommendations. The CDC stands for the Center for Disease
Control. I have been in attendance at the international borreliosis conferences when the CDC said their
recommendations are for disease surveillance, not day-to-day clinical medical practice. I am not in the
business of disease surveillance. My job is to try to help sick people.

The CDC recommendations do not include the 31 and 34 Kda bands of the blot test. These two bands
correspond to outer surface proteins A and B respectively (ospA and ospB). In the world of borreliosis,
these are two of the classic hallmark Lyme antibodies. But the CDC does not even have them in their
recommendations.

You may see why I and other borreliosis clinicians do not agree with using the CDC criteria in everyday
medical practice. Other bacteria besides Borrelia burgdorferi may produce the 45, 58, 66, and 73 kDa
bands. These bands may be produced by Borrelia burgdorferi, but are not nearly as specifically associated
with Lyme borreliosis as the starred bands. These starred bands are classic hallmark borrelia-associated
antigen-antibody complexes.

**An example of the CDC's criteria of a blot test, is if a patient has the band pattern of 41, 45, 58, 66, and
93, the CDC would call it positive. But if a patient has a 23-25, 31, 34, and 39 band pattern, they would
call it negative. This is despite the fact that this second pattern of antigen-antibody complex bands is
much more specifically associated with Borrelia burgdorferi than the first pattern.

As you can see, borreliosis is very controversial. It would be alarming if I was the only clinician who
thought that the CDC recommendations should not be used for day-to day medical practice. Many borrelia
clinicians do not use the CDC criteria. This is obvious by the fact that the IgX laboratory uses different
criteria for positive. Again, in my opinion and others', even one borrelia-associated antibody is significant,
if symptoms exist. The classic triad of symptoms for borreliosis is fatigue (tiredness, exhaustion),
musculoskeletal pain (joints, muscles, back, neck, headache), and cognitive problems (memory loss,
trouble concentrating, difficulty remembering what you read, depression, disorientation, getting lost).

But there are about 100 symptoms on the borreliosis questionnaire I use. Borreliosis may mimic or imitate
virtually any disease. Patients often tell me that other physicians they have seen use the CDC
recommendations. This is unfortunate, in my opinion, since these physicians are not in the business of
disease surveillance, like the CDC is.

But I am biased. After seeing patients with borreliosis since 1988, attending many conferences, talking
with experts, and doing research on borreliosis testing, there is absolutely no question in my mind that
physicians need to not blindly accept any recommendations.

One of my hopes is that doctors will someday realize that this controversy is a signal for them to search
for the truth. Why is there such conflict in this very "political" disease if there is not substance for
disagreement? Both IgG and IgM Western blots should be done for borreliosis.

With most infections, your immune system first forms IgM antibodies, then in about 2 to 4 weeks, you see
IgG antibodies. In some infections, IgG antibodies may be detectable for years. Because Borrelia
burgdorferi is a chronic persistent infection that may last for decades, you would think patients with
chronic symptoms would have positive IgG Western blots.

But actually, more IgM blots are positive in chronic borreliosis than IgG. Every time Borrelia burgdorferi
reproduces itself, it may stimulate the immune system to form new IgM antibodies. Some patients have
both IgG and IgM blots positive. But if either the IgG or IgM blot is positive, overall it is a positive result.

Response to antibiotics is the same if either is positive, or both. Some antibodies against the borrelia are
given more significance if they are IgG versus IgM, or vice versa.

Since this is a chronic persistent infection, this does not make a lot of sense to me. A newly formed
Borrelia burgdorferi should have the same antigen parts as the previous bacteria that produced it. But
anyway, from my clinical experience, these borrelia associated bands usually predict a clinical change in
symptoms with antibiotics, regardless of whether they are IgG or IgM. In regard to the outer surface
proteins, think of it like the skin of a human.

On the outer surface of the Lyme bacteria are various proteins. As they have been discovered, they have
been assigned letters, such as outer surface proteins A, B, and C. The following is a brief explanation of
the test results. Again, each band is an antigen complexed (bound together) with an antibody made by the
immune system, specifically for that antigen (part) of Borrelia burgdorferi.

18: An outer surface protein.
22: Possibly a variant of outer surface protein C.
23-25: Outer surface protein C (osp C).
28: An outer surface protein.
30: Possibly a variant of outer surface protein A.
31: Outer surface protein A (osp A). 34: Outer surface protein B (osp B).
37: Unknown, but it is in the medical literature that it is a borrelia-associated antibody. Other labs
consider it significant.
39: Unknown what this antigen is, but based on research at the National Institute of Health (NIH), other
Borrelia (such as Borrelia recurrentis that causes relapsing fever), do not even have the genetics to code
for the 39 kDa antigen, much less produce it. It is the most specific antibody for borreliosis of all.
41: Flagella or tail. This is how Borrelia burgdorferi moves around, by moving the flagella. Many bacteria
have flagella. This is the most common borreliosis antibody.
45: Heat shock protein. This helps the bacteria survive fever. The only bacteria in the world that does not
have heat shock proteins is Treponema pallidum, the cause of syphilis.
58: Heat shock protein.
66: Heat shock protein. This is the second most common borrelia antibody.
73: Heat shock protein.
83: This is the DNA or genetic material of Borrelia burgdorferi. It is the same thing as the 93, based upon
the medical literature. But laboratories vary in assigning significance to the 83 versus the 93.
93: The DNA or genetic material of Borrelia burgdorferi.
In my clinical experience, if a patient has symptoms suspicious for borreliosis, and has one or more of the
following bands, there is a very high probability the patient has borreliosis.

These bands are 18, 22, 23-25, 28, 30, 31, 34, 37, 39, 41, 83, and 93. This is true regardless of whether it
is IgG or IgM.. But again, there is no universal agreement on the significance of these bands. Betina
Wilska, M.D. from Germany is one of the world's experts on outer surface protein A (31 kDa).

At the international borreliosis conference in Vancouver, British Columbia, I asked her personally about
the 30 kDa band. She told me it was the same as the 31 kDa band (osp A). When you have the opportunity
to talk to borreliosis experts, this helps in assigning significance to findings, on an imperfect test. As a
medical doctor, I am stating all of this with no axe to grind, no professorship to protect, and no preset
opinions. Patients, personal research, and conferences have helped me interpret the borreliosis medical
literature in regard to testing. Nobody would like to have available a bullet-proof, 100% reliable Lyme
borreliosis test more than I would. But we must use what is currently available. I always welcome second
opinions.

Dr. C in Missouri


Posts: 20353 | From The Moon | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Beverly
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 1271

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Beverly     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi,

I wish I had a CDC positive too, but I have three bands which show some reactivity on my WB, 18, 37 and 41.

Nothing has really helped my tremors/shaking and twitching either. I am hoping that treamtent for Babesia will make these symptoms get better for me.

I'm glad your memory and cognative ablilites are improving that is good.

For the sleeping have you tried Elavil? I take it and it does help me.

Here is some information for you about WB, I hope it helps.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And The Bands Played On - Western blot serological test for Lyme disease http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Oasis/6455/western-blot.txt
************************************************************************
as of 1 March 2001

Table of Contents

Terminology.
Borrelia burgdorferi bands mentioned in medical literature (MEDLINE).
Named bands - the gene names.
Bands specific for Borrelia burgdorferi.
Cross-reacting bands.
Bands found, or tested for, in IgM analysis in USA or Mexico.
Bands found, or tested for, in IgG analysis in USA or Mexico.
Other bands found in IgM/IgG in other countries.
The "CDC recommended" bands for Western blot testing - CDC/MMWR 1995.
For more information about the Western blot test and Lyme disease.

-----
Terminology:

Bb Borrelia burgdorferi (the Lyme disease bacteria)
Bdr Borrelia direct repeat
Bmp Bacterial membrane protein
Dbp decorin binding protein
Fla flagellin
Fn-B fibronectin-binding protein
GroEL a chaperonin 60 heat-shock protein isolated from Escherichia coli
Hsp heat shock protein
HSP Heat Stress Protein
kDa kilodaltons (a measurement of size)
Mab monoclonal antibodies
MgtE magnesium transporter protein
Oms outer membrane-spanning
Osp outer surface protein
P protein
p protein
PBP penicillin-binding protein
PMID PubMed ID (identification system for citations)
Tbp transferrin-binding protein

Other terms might be found at:

The Jounrnal of Clinical Investigation - Abbreviations http://www.jci.org/misc/abbreviations.shtml

-----
Borrelia burgdorferi bands mentioned in medical literature (MEDLINE):

Note: Bands preceded with an asterisk are the 11 Western blot bands for
the ASTPHLD, CDC, FDA, NIH, CSTE, NCCLS 1994 conference recommendation
("CDC recommendation") for the serologic diagnosis of Lyme disease -
see 1995 CDC MMWR link below.

5-kDa
7.5-kDa
11-kDa
13-kDa surface protein - sensu stricto, afzelii
14-kDa internal flagellin fragment [specific for Bb]
15 kDa polypeptide [also for syphilis]
16-kDa
17-kDa Osp 17 [B. afzelii]
*18-kDa p18 flagellin fragment
19-kDa immunogenic integral membrane lipoproteins
cross-reactive with other spirochetes/bacteria
Characterization of antigenic determinants of Bb shared by other
bacteria. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=1372635&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b
19-kDa decorin-binding protein
20-kDa decorin-binding protein
20.5-kDa
20.7-kDa
*21-kDa OspC [specific for Bb]
22-kDa [specific for Bb or cross-reactive depending on what one reads]
immunogenic integral membrane lipoproteins
[cross-reactive with other spirochetes/bacteria]
Characterization of antigenic determinants of Bb shared by other
bacteria. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=1372635&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b
22-kDa OspC [specific for Bb]
22-25kDa OspC
23-kDa OspC
*24-kDa OspC
25-kDa OspC [specific for Bb]
26-kDa
27-kDa Osp, Hsp
(Europe burgdorferi strain B29, but not American strain B31)
*28-kDa OspD, Oms28 [specific for Bb]
29-kDa OspA?
30-32-kDa OspA
*30-kDa OspA substrate binding protein
31-kDa OspA [specific for Bb]
32-kDa OspA
33-kDa outer membrane
34-kDa OspB [specific for Bb]
34-36-kDa OspB
35-kDa OspB [specific for Bb]
35.5-kDa
36-37-kDa
37-kDa P37, FlaA gene product, [specific for Bb]
38.0-kDa FlaA
*39-kDa BmpA [specific for Bb]
40-kDa
*41-kDa FlaB
42-kDa
43-kDa
44-kDa
*45-kDa [appeared in IgM in control group in 1998 study done in Poland]
MEDLINE - 9972057 - "...whereas in control group only antibodies
against 45 kDa and 58 kDa were present." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=9972057&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b
[appears for HGE]
MEDLINE - 9620365 - "...confirmed the importance of the 42- to
45-kDa antigens as early, persistent, and specific markers of HGE
infection." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=9620365&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b
46-kDa
47-kDa P47 fibronectin-binding protein [specific for Bb]
48-kDa
49-kDa
50-kDa [specific for Bb]
51 kDa MgtE
52-kDa Fn-BA
54-kDa [other Borrelia]
55-kDa
56-kDa
57-kDa PBP
*58-kDa (not GroEL)
59-kDa [a genetically engineeried fragment of the 83-kDa protein]
60-kDa Hsp [all Borrelia]
62-kDa Hsp60
63.7-kDa
64-kDa (P64) [cross-reacts to human axonal proteins]
65-kDa
*66-kDa P66 Oms66 Hsp outer/integral membrane protein
67-kDa
68-kDa
70-kDa Hsp
71-kDa
72-kDa Hsp [cross-reactive with other spirochetes]
[cross-reactive with other spirochetes/bacteria]
Characterization of antigenic determinants of Bb shared by other
bacteria. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=1372635&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b
73-kDa
75-kDa
77-kDa a genetically engineered recombinant hybred
Use of a hybrid protein consisting of the variable region of the
Borrelia burgdorferi flagellin and part of the 83-kDa protein as
antigen for serodiagnosis of Lyme disease. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=8027303&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b
78-kDa OspA
79.8-kDa
80-kDa
83-kDa p83 high molecular mass protein [specific for Bb]
84-kDa [B. garinii]
88-kDa
92-kDa
*93-kDa an immunodominant protoplasmic cylinder antigen, associated with
the flagellum [specific for Bb]
94-kDa PBP [specific for Bb]
95-kDa
97-kDa associated with flagella
100-kDa P100
110-kDa
200-kDa a fusion protein, a hybrid protein

-----
Named bands - the gene names:

BmpA, BmpB, BmpC "the 39 kDa Bmp protein family", PMID: 8978084
BmpD, PMID: 8606088
FlaA, an outer sheath protein of the periplasmic flagella
37-kDa, PMID: 9986810
38-kDa, PMID: 9573194, PMID: 8990312
FlaB, 41-kDa PMID: 9573194
FlgE, protein 40-kDa?, PMID: 8548542
ospAB,28-34-kDa, PMID: 9596714

---
OspA = 29-33.5 kDa

Regarding OspA AND Lyme disease the following molecular weights are
associated with OspA in the MEDLINE database:

Note: To see the abstract for a particular PMID number,
simply insert the number, via copy and paste, in the following URL
after the "&list_uids=" term: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=&dopt=Abstract

Example, using the first number below: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10638032&dopt=Abstract

29-31 kDa - PMID: 10638032, 8429231
29.6 kDa - PMID: 1406458
30 kDa - PMID: 7500914
30-32 kDa - PMID: 2461135
31-kDa - PMID: 10030131, PMID: 8005219, PMID: 8406878, PMID: 1520966
PMID: 1554741, PMID: 10699329, PMID: 8825913
32-kDa - PMID: 8005219, PMID: 1520966
32-kDa/rOspA dog vaccine - PMID: 8567917
32.5 kDa - PMID: 9144917, PMID: 8004045
33 kDa - PMID: 1520966, PMID: 8005219
33.5 kDa - PMID: 8004045, PMID: 1520966

---
OspB 34-kDa PMID: 10030131
OspC 21-25-kDa, 22-25-kDa - PMID: 8825913,
OspD 28-kDa, PMID: 8825913
OspE 19.2-kDa [calculated], PMID: 8262642
OspF 26.1-kDa [calculated], PMID: 8262642

-----
Bands specific for Borrelia burgdorferi:

14-kDa ?
21-kDa
22-kDa OspC
25-kDa OspC
28-kDa OspD
31-kDa OspA
34-kDa OspB
35-kDa
37-kDa
39-kDa
47-kDa
50-kDa
83-kDa
93-kDa
94-kDa

Notes:
14-kDa ? PMID: 9920119, PMID: 1556546 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=9920119&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=1556546&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

B. burgdorferi: 22 kDa, 31 kDa, 34 kDa, 39 kDa, 83 kDa - PMID: 9440203 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=9440203&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

p35 and p37 are Borrelia burgdorferi genes - PMID: 9175831 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=9175831&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

at least one is an apparently specific band (25, 28, 39, 47, 50, or
93 kDa). - PMID: 7791177 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=7791177&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

antibodies against the 94 kDa, 31 kDa and 21 kDa proteins are largely
species-specific. - PMID: 8223404 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=8223404&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

-----
Cross-reacting bands:

19-kDa
22-kDa ??
20-kDa
30-kDa
33-kDa
34-kDa ??
36-kDa
40-kDa
41-kDa
60-kDa
66-kDa
72-kDa

Notes:
Search terms:
cross-react*
cross-antigenicity
crossreact

Immunoblot analysis indicated the presence of cross-reacting antibodies
directed to B. burgdorferi antigens with apparent molecular weights of
60, 41, 40, 36, 30 and 20 kDa. - PMID: 1385332 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

P66, P60, P41 which are dominant immunogens of all types of borrelias
PMID: 9162453 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=9162453&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

19, 22[??], 72 - PMID: 1372635 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=1372635&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

60-75 kDa range, p40, p33 and two proteins in the range of 20 kDa. -
PMID: 1597198 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=1597198&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

Whereas the 60 kDa, 41 kDa, and 34 kDa[??] constituents reveal a
marked cross-antigenicity with other spirochetes and even more distantly
related bacteria,...PMID: 8223404 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=8223404&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

-----
Bands found, or tested for, in IgM analysis in USA or Mexico.

18-kDa
21-kDa
23-kDa
24-kDa
25-kDa
28-kDa
37-kDa
39-kDa
41-kDa
45-kDa
55-kDa
58-kDa
60-kDa
66-kDa
93-kDa

Notes:
37 - PMID: 9986810 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=9986810&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

41 kDa and 58 kDa - PMID: 9972057 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=9972057&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

24 kDa (OspC), 41 kDa, and 37 kDa - PMID: 8748261 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=8748261&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

39, 58, 60, 66, or 93 kDa - PMID: 8748261 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=8748261&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

55-kDa - PMID: 7642278 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=7642278&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

Recommended criteria for the immunoglobulin M (IgM) immunoblot are the
recognition of two of three proteins (24, 39, and 41 kDa). PMID: 7714202 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=7714202&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

25-kDa antigens - PMID: 8308100 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=8308100&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

23-kDa - PMID: 8225587 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=8225587&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

at least 2 of the 8 most common IgM bands in early disease
(18, 21, 28, 37, 41, 45, 58, and 93 kDa) - PMID: 8380611 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=8380611&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

-----
Bands found, or tested for, in IgG analysis in USA or Mexico.

18-kDa
20-kDa
21-kDa
22-kDa
23-kDa
24-kDa
28-kDa
29-kDa
30-kDa
31-kDa
34-kDa
35-kDa
39-kDa
41-kDa
45-kDa
55-kDa
58-kDa
88-kDa
62-kDa
66-kDa
93-kDa

Notes:
A serum sample was considered positive by WB [IgG] if at least three of
the following protein bands were recognized: 18, 24, 28, 29, 31, 34, 39,
41, 45, 58, 62, 66, and 93 kDa. PMID: 10071428 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=10071428&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

93, 39, 34 or 23 kDa IgG bands - PMID: 9580180 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=9580180&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

55-kDa - PMID: 7642278 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=7642278&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

The recommended criteria for a positive IgG immunoblot are the
recognition of two of five proteins (20, 24 [> 19 intensity units], 35,
39, and 88 kDa). Alternatively, if band intensity cannot be measured,
the 22-kDa protein can be substituted for the 24-kDa protein with only
a small decrease in sensitivity. PMID: 7714202 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=7714202&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

at least 5 of the 10 most frequent IgG bands after the first weeks of
infection (18, 21, 28, 30, 39, 41, 45, 58, 66, and 93 kDa)-PMID: 8380611 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=8380611&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

66 kDa and 31/34 kDa - PMID: 3819479 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/htbin-post/Entrez/query?uid=3819479&form=6&db=m&Dopt=b

-----
Other bands found in IgM/IgG in other countries:

Europe/Germany - PMID: 9163458
The following interpretation criteria resulting in specificities of
greater than 96% were recommended: for IgG WB, at least one band of
p83/100, p58, p56, OspC, p21, and p17a for PKa2; at least two
bands of p83/100, p58, p43, p39, p30, OspC, p21, p17, and p14 for
PKo; and at least one band of p83/100, p39, OspC, p21, and p17b
for PBi; for IgM WB, at least one band of p39, OspC, and p17a or
a strong p41 band for PKa2; at least one band of p39, OspC, and
p17 or a strong p41 band for PKo; and at least one band of p39 and
OspC or a strong p41 band for PBi.

IgG titers to P35 and P37 Mice/Northern blot - PMID: 9175831

Italy - PMID: 8809552
The overall reactivity of the
three Borrelia strains in IgG immunoblots indicated that ten
protein bands were significant, with a different prevalence of some
of them in the two groups of patient sera: bands at 60-58, 30-33,
36-37 and 28-27 kDa were markers for neuroborreliosis sera;
proteins at 100-83, 72-70 and 18-17 kDa behaved like markers for
Lyme arthritis. The IgM Immunoblots revealed significant bands
at 100-83, 72-70, 51, 24- 21 and 18-17 kDa only with
neuroborreliosis sera.

Russia - PMID: 7791165
IgG reactivity with > or = 5 spirochetal proteins, particularly the
37, 39, 41, 60, and 93 kDa antigens

Germany - PMID: 8167425
IgG - 95 and 19-17 kDa

France - PMID: 8405312
[IgG] Reactions with specific protein bands (94, 73, 30 and 21 KDa)

-----
The "CDC recommended" bands for Western blot testing - CDC/MMWR 1995.

The ASTPHLD, CDC, FDA, NIH, CSTE, NCCLS 1994 conference recommendation
("CDC recommendation") for the serologic diagnosis of Lyme disease -
CDC/MMWR 1995:

ASTPHLD - Association of State and Territorial Public Health Laboratory
Directors
CDC - Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
FDA - Food and Drug Administration
NIH - National Institutes of Health
CSTE - Council of State and Territorial Epidemiologists
NCCLS - National Committee for Clinical Laboratory Standards

According to CDC's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR) 1995;
44 (31):590-591, an IgM immunoblot is considered positive if two of the
following three bands are present:

24 kDa (OspC)*
39 kDa (BmpA)
41 kDa (Fla)

An IgG immunoblot is considered positive if five of the following 10
bands are present:

18 kDa
21 kDa (OspC)*
28 kDa
30 kDa
39 kDa (BmpA)
41 kDa (Fla)
45 kDa
58 kDa (not GroEL)
66 kDa
93 kDa

* The apparent molecular mass of OspC is dependent on the strain of
B. burgdorferi being tested. The 24 kDa and 21 kDa proteins referred
to are the same.

Recommendations for Test Performance and Interpretation from the Second
National Conference on Serologic Diagnosis of Lyme Disease,
CDC MMWR, August 11, 1995 / 44(31);590-591 http://www.cdc.gov/epo/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00038469.htm
or http://wonder.cdc.gov/wonder/prevguid/m0038469/entire.htm

-----
For more information about the Western blot test and Lyme disease, see:

The National Lyme Disease Network LymeNet Newsletter
Volume 4 - Number 13 - 9/23/96
SPECIAL ISSUE - Understanding the Western Blot http://www2.lymenet.org/domino/nl.nsf/UID/4-13

Explanation of the Lyme Disease Western Blot by Carl Brenner http://www.lymealliance.org/Medical/MedCategory4/Lab4/lab4.html

Laboratory Tests by Tom Grier - Part 2 - Western Blot and ELISA http://www.lymealliance.org/Medical/MedCategory4/Med12A/med12a.html

IGeneX, Inc. - Lyme Disease Western Blot http://www.igenex.com/lymeset2.htm

MRL Diagnostics' Lyme Disease B. burgdorferi Genogroup 1
Western Blot IgG test http://www.mrldiagnostics.com/insert/wb0400g.htm

Immuno-Biological Laboratories (IBL) - Hamburg [Germany] -
Borrelia burgdorferi/Lyme IgG Western Blot http://www.ibl-hamburg.com/prod/re_97228.htm

The western immunoblot for Lyme disease: determination of sensitivity,
specificity, and interpretive criteria with use of commercially
available performance panels.
Tilton RC, Sand MN, Manak M
BBI Clinical Laboratories, Inc., New Britain, Connecticut 06053, USA.
Clin Infect Dis 1997 Jul;25 Suppl 1:S31-S34 http://www.x-l.net/Lyme/BBI_TEST.htm

SIMULTANEOUS ELISA AND WESTERN BLOT TESTING IN EVALUATION OF PATIENTS
FOR SUSPECTED LYME DISEASE
Janice M. Kochevar, FNP-C, Kenneth B. Liegner, M.D.
LDF 10th Annual International Scientific Conference on Lyme Borreliosis
& Other Tick-borne Disorders: April 28-30, 1997 http://www.x-l.net/Lyme/elisawb497.htm

MEDLINE -
Western Immunoblot*/blot* [in Title] AND Lyme Disease - 33 on 1 Mar 2001 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=search&db=PubMed&orig_db=PubMed&dispmax=1000&doptcmdl=DocSum&term=%28western%5BTI%5D+AND+%28immunoblot*%5BTI%5D+OR+blot*%5BTI%5D%2 9+AND+%28lyme+OR+burgdorferi+OR+%28borreli*+AND+ixodes%29+OR+%28%28erythema+AND+migrans%29+NOT+glossitis%29+OR+garinii+OR+afzelii+OR+neuroborreli*%29

-----
For more information on Lyme disease, see:

Lots Of Links On Lyme Disease http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Oasis/6455/lyme-links.html

-----
Prepared by
Art Doherty
Lompoc, California
[email protected]



Posts: 6638 | From Michigan | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Beverly
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 1271

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Beverly     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Good to see you Tincup, you snuck in there right before me, I hope you get some sleep.

Sleep tight and don't let the bed bugs bite.


Posts: 6638 | From Michigan | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829

Icon 10 posted      Profile for Tincup         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
YIPPEE!!!!!

Beverly is here! I LOVE that lady! She shows up in the middle of the night and works so hard to help sooooooo many folks... while others are fast asleep.

THANK YOU BEVERLY!

I have been worried about you! Hadn't heard from you and have had you on my mind all week! Hope all is going ok for you!

Sorry to laz for "borrowing space" to chat with Beverly.. but I just HAD to say a quick howdeeeeeee to our friend!

Night night... which I could stay up and "play".. but not possible tonight.

Later gator! Good to see you!


Posts: 20353 | From The Moon | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829

Icon 10 posted      Profile for Tincup         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
HA! You didn't see me.. then I didn't see you.. and now I do and you do too.

YEP... Can you tell?

Time for me to get to bed...

Or off with my head!

Good to see you!


Posts: 20353 | From The Moon | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Beverly
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 1271

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Beverly     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I am fine sweetheart, didn't mean to worry you. I have been thinking about you too.

I wish we could play too, but I ma moving slow tonight, but I'll be here a little bit, now go get some sleep.

Butt.....maybe this friday...I'll steal Mel! HA LOL


Posts: 6638 | From Michigan | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
lazerorca
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 4689

Icon 1 posted      Profile for lazerorca     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
lol I don't mind... do whatever.
Posts: 255 | From Greenville, NC, USA | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
David95928
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3521

Icon 1 posted      Profile for David95928     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Lazer,
Just a couple of comments regarding your post.
Beverly suggetsed Elavil for sleep. Another option is Trazadone (Desyrel). It's an old-fashioned anti-depressant that is not habit forming and WILL cause you to sleep --- like a rock!
You mentioned your testosterone level is low. This seems to not be too unusual with Lyme in men. The Androgel may tide you over and it sounds like your plan is to go on testosterone shots. There are a couple of disadvantages to this approach. First, it will finish shutting down your pituitary gland. Also, it ends to wear off in about six days so a shot even every two weeks at the doctor's office won't really provide coverage.
An alternativeis hCG (Ex. Novarel). It's a hormone that stimulates the pituitary to produce testosterone. You have to take it at least twice a week in a shot, which would mean making a plan to get it given at home or whatever, but it is more natural and won't cause your testes to shrink. It's also pretty much painless. It is widely available in a number of generic forms so the cost isn't bad. In fact, my insurance covers it without a blink, $5.00 per month. I think you will find that if you can get your testosterone level up, your cogntintio will improve further.
Good luck in all of this and hang in.
David

Posts: 2034 | From CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
annettsky
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 5670

Icon 1 posted      Profile for annettsky     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
thankyou for this post i just pulled out my igenex western blot and i have 9 of these asterixed positive and cleveland said it was a very weak evidence of lyme so they diagnosedme as psycho. i would love to make an appt to just talk to them over there unbelievable, my internal med dr is questioning how long i should be on antibiotics and how long we need to go and how do we know to quit because i am improving very slowly i told him nobody is taking me off to early this time i have only been on antib. for 6 months the ones that count anyway.

------------------
waiting and praying for a miracle


Posts: 106 | From south western new york | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lazer'sMom
Member
Member # 4704

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lazer'sMom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
David,

I hope Lazer won't mind me chiming in here. . .

Regarding the testosterone level, it appears to me his pituitary gland is close to shutting down already. His labs showed an extremely low level. We were told that a "normal" level for a male his age should be somewhere between 800 and 1000. His level was in the very low 200's. Lower than what is normal for a woman.

He has had 2 injections so far and the androgel was provided at his last visit as a fill in since he was seen at the clinic's satellite office.

This situation concerns me greatly. I sure do appreciate your input regarding the other options and I will definitely research this further.

This is so frustrating!!! It seems like one thing after just continues to crop up with Lazer's health. Will we ever see things improve?????!!!!!

L'smom


Posts: 21 | From North Carolina | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
David95928
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3521

Icon 1 posted      Profile for David95928     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
L's Mom,

It is very frustrating! For years, every problem I got halfway sorted out was supplanted by at least two more.

The pharmacokinetics of exogenous testosterone really call for a shot every six or seven days. Waiting longer than that is related to the issue of administration, who's going to give the shot. There's no reason why a friend or family member couldn't safely do this for him.

I was in Lazer's situation and on testosterone for eight years. It was an improvement but did have unpleasant side effects. I've been on hCG since May and like it MUCH better.

Another possibility is Chlomiphene (Clomid). It's an oral preparation that stimulates sex hormone production. It's effects on men are not well researched and hCG is more of a known quantity. It would prabably take an endocrinologist or, possibly, a urologist to get either of these prescribed.

Paul Turek has published papers on using hCG to restart the pituitary-hypthalmus-testicular axis in bodybuilders who had shut the system down by long-term use of anablic steroids.
This is a manageable problem.
David


Posts: 2034 | From CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
lazerorca
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 4689

Icon 1 posted      Profile for lazerorca     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
we have been told that these shots are to help stimulate natural testosterone production, not for replacement... and that injections will slowly rebound my testosterone to a normal level.

but yeah I am curious about my hair loss and if it is attributed to my low testosterone. i know that testosterone is supposed to stimulate hair growth, but I don't know if it stimulates hair growth on ur head. i was under the impression that DHT (a type of testosterone) is what causes hair loss also if u inherited the hair loss allelle on the x choromosome from ur mother's side... so yeah I am kinda confused about this whole thing. I have been very lazy with looking this up


Posts: 255 | From Greenville, NC, USA | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
lazerorca
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 4689

Icon 1 posted      Profile for lazerorca     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
i do know that androgens are supposed to stimulate body hair growth but make u lose hair on ur head if u have male pattern baldness. and yeah I am still growing more and more body hair unfortunately haha. even with this low testosterone level i am supposed to be having
Posts: 255 | From Greenville, NC, USA | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
David95928
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3521

Icon 1 posted      Profile for David95928     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Lazer,

Testosterone shots have been sometimes successful at stimulating onset of puberty that has been delayed, as have hCG shots. So they might be able to have the effect of 'priming the pump' for you if given at longer intervals. Testosterone, in general, stimultes growth of body hair and tends to cause baldness. That would, of course, be dose dependent. In my mind, testosterone is kind of a blunt instrument. HCG is more precise.

David


Posts: 2034 | From CA | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code� is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | LymeNet home page | Privacy Statement

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:

The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey
907 Pebble Creek Court, Pennington, NJ 08534 USA


| Flash Discussion | Support Groups | On-Line Library
Legal Resources | Medical Abstracts | Newsletter | Books
Pictures | Site Search | Links | Help/Questions
About LymeNet | Contact Us

© 1993-2020 The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
Use of the LymeNet Site is subject to Terms and Conditions.