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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Any advice on how to maximize/use supplements to increase diminishing energy?

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Author Topic: Any advice on how to maximize/use supplements to increase diminishing energy?
JavaBeing
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Howdy friends,

I'm currently fighting the worst fatigue and energy depletion I've encountered since become ill. Can anyone offer some suggestions or routines that have been successful in using the variety of supplements/vitamins that we need to kick up our energy and immune systems?

I'm sure many of us feel that we are constantly juggling the variety of supplements needed to fight against this bacteria and all the friends it brought with it, and can feel confused about what works best and how/when to take them.

The only thing I know for sure is NOT to take supplements/vitamins within 2 hours before or after taking your abx. But other than gulping them down with alot of water, I really am just trying to split them up through out the day.

My list, which I'm sure is like many, includes: CQ-10 (30mg 1/day), Milk thistle, Mg Malate (80mg 4x/day), Garlic softgels (500mg 2x/day), NAC (600mg, am/pm), Acidiopolus combo tablets/powder (try an hour before meals), a good multi-vitamin and extra ester-C.

In addition, I've just added Perfect Food and Primal defense supplements...both once a day, usually AM.

Is there any special combinations that you've found certain supplements work better together (such as the Vitamin B with the Mg)? Do any supplements work less effiently when digested with another supplement/vitamin? What time of day can these supplements work the best?

My many thanks for ANY advise for helping me (and hopefully others..) find some balance in this daily juggling contest, and getting all the benefits possible.

Health and healing,
JavaBeing


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robi
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I kow it is hard to believe that one thing cn realy have an impact on your energy level, but adding this really really helped me.

It is not a wonder drug orcure all however it does support a lt of functions in the body and give the body a great deal of nutrition.

There are many types .... the one I use is Green Vibrance. You can buy small packs at the healthfood store before investing in a big bottle.

Really helped my energy level a lot. I drink t once a day it the AM.

robi


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KrisKraft
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I've listed my favorite supplements below.

For fatigue, I heard an impressive presentation on Taurox, a homeopathic remedy, at the Orthomedical conference. You might want to Google it to read the research, since I haven't tried it myself.

KrisKraft

LYME SUPPLEMENT SHOPPING LIST
Explanations from Dr. Burrascano's "Treatment Guidelines" http://www2.lymenet.org/domino/file.nsf/UID/guidelines

BEST PRICES
You can get all of these supplements at Web Vitamins or your local health food store, except for Pharmanex Products. With Pharmanex products, make sure you place them as ADR (monthly) orders for the lowest possible price. (You can cancel at anytime with no penalty, and you earn free product points.)
Web Vitamins: http://www.webvitamins.com/?AID=1629565&PID=1620614

*******************************
THE BASICS
*******************************

MULTIVITAMIN
Pharmanex LifePak + MarineOmega Item #01101868 (avail. online only)
Cost $52.10 + $10 (Make sure you place an "ADR" order to save 28% and earn free product points. The cost is $37 + $8 per month if you add in free product points) http://www.pharmanexusa.com/cgi-bin/pxweb/product/en/ns_productDetail.jsp?content_id=01101868&spons_ID=US0668509

B-COMPLEX
Coenzyme B Complex Orange 60T from Source Naturals
Cost $13.15

MAGNESIUM
Ultra-Mag 200mg 120T from Source Naturals
Cost: $7.95

PROBIOTIC
Jarro-Dophilus EPS 60C from Jarrow

*******************************
TARGET SOLUTIONS
*******************************
CANDIDA/YEAST CONTROL
Perfect Food Super Greens from Garden of Life
Cost: $31.47
Garlinase** 4000 from Enzymatic Therapy
Cost $25.00

REDUCING INFLAMMATION
Wobenzym N 200T from Naturally Vitamins
Cost: $31.85

IMMUNITY BOOSTER
ReishiMax GLp from Pharmanex
Cost: $66.50 (as an ADR order) http://www.pharmanexusa.com/cgi-bin/pxweb/product/en/ns_productDetail.jsp?content_id=01003519&spons_ID=US0668509

FIGHTING FATIGUE
Co-Q10 (Don't take with Mepron) from Pharmanex
Cost: $14.25 ADR http://www.pharmanexusa.com/cgi-bin/pxweb/product/en/ns_productDetail.jsp?content_id=01003287&spons_ID=US0668509

REDUCING BRAIN FOG
BioGinkgo 27/7 from Pharmanex
Cost $21.85 ADR http://www.pharmanexusa.com/cgi-bin/pxweb/product/en/ns_productDetail.jsp?content_id=01003442&spons_ID=US0668509

*******************************
YEAST/CANDIDA CONTROL
*******************************

My husband and I have been battling systemic yeast, and these are the supplements that have worked for us. I've put them in the order of effectiveness, so you might want to work your way down the list, adding supplements every couple of days, until the overgrowth is controlled. (Nystatin has never worked well for me.)

I personally keep the yeast at bay with probiotics, Super Food, and grapefruit seed extract. If I eat too much sugary or starchy food, I have to temporarily add the Garlinase. You can get all these products, except for the Pharmanex ones, at a health food store, or online at Web Vitamins.

Probiotics EVERY meal.
Each day we mix several brands, hoping the good bacteria will win.

A. Jarro-Dophilus EPS 60C from Jarrow (Our favorite**)
It doesn't need to be refrigerated, a plus if you have to go to work.

B. ProBio PCC Pharmanex (for variety)

C. A few spoonfuls of live-culture, no-sugar yogurt with meals, to reach the upper GI tract.

Perfect Food Super Greens from Garden of Life
Recently, we've added this green powder, "The Perfect Food" from the Garden of Life, which is equivalent to eating 5-10 servings of vegetables. The thing that's great about it is that it seems to suppress GI tract yeast overgrowth, as well as providing immunity-boosting antioxidants. http://www.webvitamins.com/?AID=1629565&PID=1620614

Liquid Grapefruit Seed Extract
About 6 drops in a glass of water, once a day, or more, if thrush on the tongue gets out of hand. I use Nutribiotic GSE, but I think any brand will do.

Garlinase** 4000 from Enzymatic Therapy
Amazing at flushing out the fungus/yeast. Works MUCH better than Nystatin for us. Beware of a big die-off (i.e. diarrhea) when you first take it. Take one before bed, more if you have an outbreak. Garlic thins the blood, so make sure you're not mixing it with other blood thinners. This is processed so it doesn't give you stinky breath.

Yeast Fighters from TwinLab
Includes Lactobacillus, Garlic Bulb Extract, Caprylic Acid, and various other herbs.

Saccharomyces boulardii from Allergy Research Group
A friendly strain of yeast that hopefully will win the battle against Candida.

*******************************
FIGHTING FATIGUE
*******************************

C0-Q10 (Don't take with Mepron)
Deficiencies have been related to poor function of the heart, limitations of stamina, and poor resistance to infections. Tissue biopsy studies have resulted in the recommendation that a patient with chronic Lyme should take between 200 and 300 mg daily of standard brands, or 90 mg daily of the pharmaceutical quality product marketed by Pharmanex, in two or three equal doses. Improvements do not begin for several weeks. The body will manufacture its own Co-Q 10 when the original infection is controlled, but only if stimulated by aggressive exercise. Therefore, use this supplement until you are feeling well and exercising regularly.
Pharmanex CoQ10 ($16.20)

CORDYCEPS
This well-known herb from Tibet has been shown in clinical studies to improve stamina, fatigue, energy, and to enhance lung and antioxidant function. It is the only compound known to raise Superoxide Dismutase activity. Although the use of this is optional, the effects can be so dramatic, I strongly urge all people with fatigue to use this, long term. Available from Pharmanex as "Cordy Max".
Cordy Max from Pharmanex ($24.70)


*******************************
BRAIN REPAIR
*******************************

ESSENTIAL FATTY ACIDS
Studies show that when EFAs are taken regularly, statistically significant improvements in fatigue, aches, weakness, vertigo, dizziness, memory, concentration and depression are likely. There are two broad classes: GLA and EPA, derived respectively from plant and fish oils.
Plant Oils (omega-6 oils): borage oil, evening primrose oil, or black currant seed oil (choose one)
Fish Oil (omega-3 oils): "MAX EPA" (or any similar preparation containing 1,000 mg of EPA)

Optimum Omega from Pharmanex ($11.90)
Optimum Omega gives your body healthful nutrition with a rich source of omega-3 fatty acids, vitamin E, and deodorized garlic.


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liz28
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I can vouch for the last three on the above list: Co-Q 10, cordyceps (a wonder herb, and the cheap stuff seems to work as well as the pricey), and flaxseed oil, even though everyone says to avoid it as a fatty acid source. Also, phosphatidylcholine is good for patching the brain back together.

Also, sublingual Vitamin B12 tablets are great when you need to get your energy and verbal skills back in a hurry, and alpha lipoic acid is gaining a great reputation as an antioxidant.


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JavaBeing
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Thanks for the response Robi and KrisKraft,

Robi--I've never heard of Green Vibrance. Is this similiar to Perfect Food supplements or the drink Xango?

KrisKraft--Thanks for giving some insights on some supplements I haven't heard of. I'm trying to incorporate Dr. B's list gradually to see how the response will be to them.

Questions: On the CQ-10, I can't find what dosage of mg is the most beneficial. I'm taking 30mg, but I've seen 50 and 100mg...which is recommended and can you take too much?

Perfect Food--You take the powder form, I have the tablets. Are these as effective and when is best time to take?

"Cordy Max"--This is for stamina right? I haven't heard of this one...what makes this so effective?

Lastly, are there ANY suggestions out there for the best methods on taking supplements (for example, best time of day...combination with meals...using along with other supplements to gain the most benefit or which ones NOT to combine with any others?

I just hate to think I'm taking these willy-nilly when there is a better method of consuming them for maximum benefit.

Thanks for all ideas and suggestions....and thanks again Robi and KrisKraft!

JavaBeing


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JavaBeing
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quote:
Originally posted by JavaBeing:
Thanks for the response Robi and KrisKraft,

Robi--I've never heard of Green Vibrance. Is this similiar to Perfect Food supplements or the drink Xango?

KrisKraft--Thanks for giving some insights on some supplements I haven't heard of. I'm trying to incorporate Dr. B's list gradually to see how the response will be to them.

Questions: On the CQ-10, I can't find what dosage of mg is the most beneficial. I'm taking 30mg, but I've seen 50 and 100mg...which is recommended and can you take too much?

Perfect Food--You take the powder form, I have the tablets. Are these as effective and when is best time to take?

"Cordy Max"--This is for stamina right? I haven't heard of this one...what makes this so effective?

Lastly, are there ANY suggestions out there for the best methods on taking supplements (for example, best time of day...combination with meals...using along with other supplements to gain the most benefit or which ones NOT to combine with any others?

I just hate to think I'm taking these willy-nilly when there is a better method of consuming them for maximum benefit.

Thanks for all ideas and suggestions....and thanks again Robi and KrisKraft!

JavaBeing
z
Just a quick edit...sorry liz28 I hadn't seen your response when I added mine. Thanks for the reinforcement on the CQ10 and Cordy Max...perhaps you can offer answers to the questions I asked regarding these two supplements?



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lhm312
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KrisKraft, you are a genius!! I can't tell you how much I appreciated your concise list of supplements and what they are good for.

I was planning to look through some vitamin catalogues tomorrow, I especially like Swanson Vitamins for their prices. Now, I can just go down your list and go to the website you recommended.

Many thanks.


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robi
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Yes Java,
green Vibrance is like Perfect Food. The cheapest pace I have found it is at the Vitamin Shoppe www.vitaminshoppe.com

It has a lot of lecithin in it. While some consider lecithin a filler. I value it because it is helpful in nerve function and cell membrane maintenance.

Website for Green Vibrance...http://www.vibranthealth.org/gv.html


The 11/12 oz. (can't remember) is enough for 1 drinak a day for 30 days. Usually you can find it for around $31.00.

I like it better than Perfect Food.

Personally , I don't buy any of the Garden of Life Proucts.......... I don't trust the whole story behind it. Just a feeling.


robi


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KrisKraft
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On timing of supplements, here's my strategy:

1. When I first wake up, I take my first antibiotic with fish oil, so it coats my stomach. Then I work out for an hour, hopefully pumping the abx into the nooks and crannies.

2. At breakfast, I mix up the Super Food with water and take LifePak, my probiotic, and most of the other supplements on my list.

3. About 11am, I take a second antibiotic.

4. At 1pm, I have lunch with a probiotic.

5. Mid afternoon, if I'm having fungal problems, I take 5 Yeast Fighters, which includes probiotics. If not, I skip it.

6. At dinner I take my second LifePak.

7. About an hour before bed, I take my last antibiotic/fish oil, and any brain repair drugs, figuring sleep time is when your brain goes through all it's chemical rebalancing. Lately I've been trying Myelin Repair and BrainStorm, which includes ALA, and lots of other good brain chemicals. It's too soon to tell if they work, but I'll let you know if I feel a difference.

KrisKraft


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KrisKraft
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Oops. I messed up the names of the brain repair drugs I'm taking. (Does that mean they're not working ;-)

BrainWave Plus from Nutricology http://www.nutricology.com/store/product.php?productid=16432

Myelin Sheath Support from Planetary Formulas http://www.vitacost.com/Store/Products/ProductDescription.cfm?SKUNumber=021078104711

Has anyone else tried these?


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JavaBeing
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Hiya KrisKraft--

Thanks for the your timing outline, that's exactly a huge piece of this puzzle that I'm really trying to focus on.

How do you incorporate the other supplements, such as CQ10, Mg and Garlinase for examples? Do you find it more beneficial to take all at once, say in the AM...or spread out through the day?

Also, you mentioned the Perfect Food supplement, I'm assuming you're using the powder version? I'm using the tablet form myself...have you notice a better outcome with the powder form?


Thanks again!
JavaBeing


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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by JavaBeing:

--I've never heard of Green Vibrance. Is this similiar to Perfect Food supplements or the drink Xango?


No other supplement is similar to the mangosteen juice. Only the mangosteen fruit has more than 43 different xanthones. It's the xanthones which have the amazing medicinal qualities.

And only the Xango has been able to change my life. I have more energy and less pain than I did 20 yrs ago.

But don't take my word for it. Research it on your own. There's a mountain of medical abstracts on the mangosteen fruit.
http://www.researchmangosteen.com http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/032080.html


------------------
oops!
Lymetutu

[This message has been edited by Lymetoo (edited 29 March 2005).]


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KrisKraft
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More on timing of supplements...

I take Mg and multivitamins with food (breakfast and dinner) because studies say they are absorbed better when mixed wtih food. Then I try to take antibiotics two hours away, at 5:30am, 10:30am, and 8pm.

I find that the powdered SuperFood keeps yeast at bay better than the tablet form, for some unknown reason, but my husband takes the tablet form, because the powder is too much of a pain to mix at work.

KrisKraft

[This message has been edited by KrisKraft (edited 31 March 2005).]


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Lymetoo
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Kris...is SuperFood the same product as PerfectFood????? If not, where do you buy the SuperFood?

------------------
oops!
Lymetutu


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brodius
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My new combination has given me a lot more energy - even dancing around with my dogs! -Mag Taurate 125mg and Coq10 60mg 1x morning and 1x b/f bed

Also, in morning - End Fatigue Daily Energy Enfusion - 1 scoop (citrus flavor) mixed w/ large glass of water - also, its comes with
Daily Evergy B Complex (large pill)

This is distrubted by PhytoPharmica - its designed by Jacob Teitelbaum

Also, I take Saventaro 20 mg in morning
and Diflucan (I was 3x a day now I have cut down)

Whatever it is - my energy and clarity has greatly imporved.....I hope this helps in some way at least!

All the best.


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brodius
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Oh yeah, I wanted to add that cutting down on carbs - especially complex carbs helps alot too. Food allergies also cause fatigue....
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KrisKraft
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Oh, sorry, I meant Perfect Food. I
K

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Lymetoo
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Thanks!
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minoucat
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Not to rain on anyone's parade, but just a reminder:

The supplements (when you're still being treated, and for a while after) are primarily to help you heal -- so don't take every drop of extra energy you get and spend it on "doing stuff" or trying to live the pre-LD life until you really are healed. It's very easy to get a burst of energy, get all excited, go galloping around, and burn out.

Been there, and the T-shirt ain't so great. The idea is to have fun, but still have a little oompf left over at the end of the day, week, month, year.


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burnbitter
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quote:
Originally posted by brodius:
Oh yeah, I wanted to add that cutting down on carbs - especially complex carbs helps alot too. Food allergies also cause fatigue....

Or it can make it much worse.
It depends a lot on your body. Sinced I started cutting down on carbs, because I'm allergic to most of them has really made me feel a lot worse. And of course makes me question the helpfulness of allergy avoidence. You need carbs. If your body is having trouble digesting things, carbs will give you energy since they are simple to break down, while your body might not be able to process meat and veggies as well. Good digestive enzymes will help some. And checking into your digestive system's ability to function might be good before you start eating only foods your body might not be able to digest. Pro-biotics are also vital.
But I've always felt better eating more carbs. Though I also don't get yeast infections so that probably helps too.
Many people are the opposite however so it all depends on your body.
That eat right for your type book sucks in my opinion. It said I should eat lots of red meat, which makes me sick and always has. So I don't recommend it, some like it.
Listen to your body, but keep in mind the potential that cravings are due to either yeast infections or food allergies. And sometimes cravings are just trying to help you get the food you need. So getting food allergy testing done might be helpful. For me so far it's just been very stressful and I haven't noticed any difference after 3 years, less allergic to many thing but now they tell me I'm gluten sensitive. Horrifying. I've hired someone to help me try the horrible diet anyway and make some palatable meals.

I swear I felt best eating rice, soy, and fresh veggies, but of course rice and soy I'm now allergic to. So no more of that.

sorry I think I got a little ranty there. opps.
I'm in a bad place with the food situation. hopefully my little chef pal will come up with healthy satisfying solutions.


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HaplyCarlessdave
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There's good "carbs" and bad "carbs".
I also found brown rice and veggies to be a very good baseline (almost wrote bass line...) for fighting lyme. It helped me tolerate the doxy and 'ceftin; combi and apparently (I had no way to measure) helped maintain steady blood sugar levels, etc. And didn't seem to encourage yeast. I usually took abx following such a combi.
DaveS
quote:
Originally posted by burnbitter:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by brodius:
[b]Oh yeah, I wanted to add that cutting down on carbs - especially complex carbs helps alot too. Food allergies also cause fatigue....


Or it can make it much worse.
It depends a lot on your body. Sinced I started cutting down on carbs, because I'm allergic to most of them has really made me feel a lot worse. And of course makes me question the helpfulness of allergy avoidence. You need carbs. If your body is having trouble digesting things, carbs will give you energy since they are simple to break down, while your body might not be able to process meat and veggies as well. Good digestive enzymes will help some. And checking into your digestive system's ability to function might be good before you start eating only foods your body might not be able to digest. Pro-biotics are also vital.
But I've always felt better eating more carbs. Though I also don't get yeast infections so that probably helps too.
Many people are the opposite however so it all depends on your body.
That eat right for your type book sucks in my opinion. It said I should eat lots of red meat, which makes me sick and always has. So I don't recommend it, some like it.
Listen to your body, but keep in mind the potential that cravings are due to either yeast infections or food allergies. And sometimes cravings are just trying to help you get the food you need. So getting food allergy testing done might be helpful. For me so far it's just been very stressful and I haven't noticed any difference after 3 years, less allergic to many thing but now they tell me I'm gluten sensitive. Horrifying. I've hired someone to help me try the horrible diet anyway and make some palatable meals.

I swear I felt best eating rice, soy, and fresh veggies, but of course rice and soy I'm now allergic to. So no more of that.

sorry I think I got a little ranty there. opps.
I'm in a bad place with the food situation. hopefully my little chef pal will come up with healthy satisfying solutions.
[/B][/QUOTE]


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beachcomber
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I have also found that completely cutting out carbs caused major fatigue for me. I have problems with yeast when I am on oral abx. But, I have found that my energy and blood sugar levels are more normal when eating some brown rice or Ezekiel Bread or a homemade granola that is mostly nuts and some grain flakes sweetened with stevia & vegatable glycerine (I think that has a bit of corn in it).

Balance is the key to just about everything we incorporate into our LD lives.

Bc


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brodius
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blood sugar levels have a lot to do with how one feels - depending on your body - allergies etc. - most people find that avoiding high levels of glycemic burst followed by lows (especially true in adrenals are not functioning well) make them feel more level (and less likely to crash). complex carbs - refined sugars - and for me, white flours - tend to do this..healthy carbs and eating at regular intervals (something like the zone)for a lot of people keep them less likely to bottom out.
Posts: 78 | From connecticut | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JavaBeing
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Wow..this thread has been so helpful to me, thank-you everyone! Hopefully, it's helping some more folks that can benefit from all the good stuff here. It's incredible how many resources we each have to share from.

First, thanks KrisKraft for all your great input and time in putting your info out there, especially interested in the brain fog supplements you mentioned...boy, can I use some of that at this point. Also had neglected the EFA's, which I will be correcting!

HapCarlessdave, Brodius, Burnbitter and Beachcomer--thanks for reminding me (and others) about the issues regarding carbs and finding the right balance to maintain blood sugar levels..it something I know I should be more diligent on, but am balancing things like a bad plate spinner, that I'm not always doing this for myself.

BTW, How does someone tell if they are having a 'food allergy' versus a 'herx' moment/day?

Minoucat--Good point on not quickly burning up those pockets of energy we may be fortunate to experience. I know I'm SO guilty of getting excited when my body has those pre-LD moments that I just rush around like I'll never get another one. It's easy to do, but really makes the healing process harder in the long run.

PS Always good to hear from another Pacific Coast lymie, feels isolated here from everyone on the other coastline.

Lymetoo--Hi Tutu, you know I've heard and read about some of the benefits from Xango from others here (thanks SkyKing!) as well as from friends here who surprised me when they said they've tried it (non-lyme) and it did wonders for their energy.

I emailed someone here (forgot who now..) on how to get a bottle to try, but never heard back. Any ideas how to go about that and what the cost is? Is this similiar to Robi's 'Green Vibrance'?

Sorry this is abit long...but everyone is so wonderful to take time to respond, that I wanted to make sure I give my many thanks to you all...

Health and Healing,
JavaBeing


Posts: 208 | From Portland, OR USA | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by JavaBeing:


Lymetoo--Hi Tutu, you know I've heard and read about some of the benefits from Xango from others here (thanks SkyKing!) as well as from friends here who surprised me when they said they've tried it (non-lyme) and it did wonders for their energy.

I emailed someone here (forgot who now..) on how to get a bottle to try, but never heard back. Any ideas how to go about that and what the cost is? Is this similiar to Robi's 'Green Vibrance'?



Nope, not similar to anything green! It's a totally unique product. And by the way, accept no substitutes!

The mangosteen fruit has more xanthones than any other fruit in the world. And it's the xanthones that have all the action in the body. Truly amazing stuff.
http://www.mangosteenstories.org http://www.goformangosteen.com

Check your email.

------------------
oops!
Lymetutu


Posts: 95649 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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