However, I want to pose a question.

THe salt and Vitamin C protocol (12 g daily in divided doses in water of NaCl and ascorbic acid) is having remarkable effects in some lymies. I've been on marc's yahoo group for a couple months and you can't deny, people are herxing, going through hellish herxes at times, and improving steadily. If it were a placebo effect or an isolated phenomena it would've worn out by now. But it doesn't.

But I asked a doctor friend about the theoreis as to why it works (osmolarity etc) and it didn't make sense to me. We get about 12 g of salt in our crappy salty diets anyway. Most food is heavily salted. And blood salinity and osmolarity and pH are pretty tightly regulated.

I did a search on NaCl and ascorbic acid...and eventually got to some stuff about hydrogen...acids...bases. I wonder if by combining them, they do something in your body that creates a powerful free radical bomb or some such.

I figure maybe you could analyze it in terms of your acids theories.

When I was in high school, chemistry...we poured a strong acid on a metal and it took a lot of the acid to completely dissolve the metal (mineral). We captured the gas that occurred as a result. Then we LIT the gas (added yet another negative charge, heat) and BOOM...energy released. Get the picture?

It's a fuel...like in rockets and we MAKE it!

Hydrogen IS one of the things that will INactivate PFK...an enzyme that is "rate limiting" for glycolysis. Bb is dependent on PFK.

However, getting that hydrogen INTO the cells is another trick.

This is where CoQ10 comes in. We make
CoQ10 (some IS in foods too) if we EXERCISE and IF we have the "ingredients" to make it...SUPPLEMENTS contain either soybean or rice bran oil which themselves contain the "nec. ingredients" (look closely at the nutrients in soybeans and rice bran). It doesn't take much. Follow?

So even IF one is on this plan Na-Vit C...that hydrogen has to be DELIVERED INTO the cells.

CoQ10 carries hydrogen INTO the cells.

There 2 hydrogens combine with 2 oxygen (free radicals) to make H202...very BRIEFLY...free radical "bomb" as you called it.

H2O2 IS capable of knocking out MOST pathogens...even some spore forms, bacteria, viruses, fungi, etc. A good thing...a very good thing.

But...Bb is somewhat resistant to H2O2 (maybe Mn - manganese - has a way of protecting Bb from being destroyed or perhaps the multiple cell walls make it just much harder...I'd have to dig in my files for the Mn clue).

The cells can't/shouldn't stay acidic (H2O2) or they will die, so next, in steps an ENZYME called catalase, to break down H202 into H2O and O. Stay acidic = here comes calcium...oh, oh. Not good. Up goes angiotensin and then TNF alpha.

So...for every two hydrogens we get INTO the cells, we end up getting rid of only ONE oxygen free radical. The free radicals do mitochondrial damage (too many free radicals when sick and this is the cause too of aging...we've been fighting off pathogens all our lives).

Obviously we are CONTINUALLY making a LOT of hydrogen and getting it into the cells.

This is what appears to be keeping us healthy, generally speaking.

We are supposed to eat a lot of good acids...EFAs, vitamins...that will react with a little mineral (or glycogen!) to make hydrogen. And we gotta exercise to get that hydrogen INTO the cells (RDA for CoQ10 is unknown.)

The balance of the minerals/glycogen and the acids is obvious in the fruit/vegetable group...hence the slightly better veg. diet.
We need more acids than alkaline things though.

Does it matter which mineral is used in combo with which acid? That's a tough question! Sometimes the more reactive minerals will "help out". Lithium for example. Pyridium. These help, but don't cure an underlying CAUSE.

Someone (down here) is using potassium for the same reasons. My fear is that this is throwing off the balance in another direction.

Each and every mineral and vitamin have their own specific functions and they ALL work together. Disrupt one, disrupts the others. Too much OR too little.

But the underlying deficient mineral is Mg. A deficiency of this mineral is gonna catch up to us sometime.

This is the #1 deficient mineral in Am. diets. This is known. This is happening for lots of reasons - beginning with not breastfeeding our kids, all the pop we drink, etc.

EVERY cell needs Mg to make ATP...bursts of energy.

I repeat, we need Mg to make ATP. And ATP is another thing that can INactivate PFK.

In my opinion this is the critical mineral to restore...to combine with something acidic...to heal.

Research B6.

This bug, as you know...prefers sugar to oxygen. Shutting down/ putting the brakes on the glycolysis pathway is tricky. Speeding it up depletes the minerals (ICHT).

Our brain needs glycogen (and an acid) and so do our WBCs. But this is where the things called "glycosides" come in...Cat's Claw, the mushrooms, perhaps chromium with acids (following the Perricone prescription idea), low glycemic index diets (South beach), etc.

This bug also (documented) follows the cholesterol pathway. The same way our bodies make cholesterol. Just recently an article came to my attention that statin drugs (to lower cholesterol) AND magnesium stop cholesterol production by controlling an enzyme.

Mg has a dual role in cholesterol. It is needed to make cholesterol if you work backwards in the steps AND it controls the enzyme to keep the proper amt. "in check".

If Mg is capable of controlling PFK AND can activate the enzyme controlling cholesterol formation (the cell walls of those critters?) then that makes Mg the safest mineral choice, IMO.

Besides, we KNOW it takes Mg and Ca to make healthy antibodies...our own highly targeted "antibiotics". They cure.

The symptoms will remain until Mg levels are restored. The symptoms are all Mg deficiency symptoms. How long this will take will depend on how much has been depleted.

Cells take an average of something like 2 weeks to 8 months to regenerate. If we supply the nutrients needed, HOPEFULLY, each new "generation" of cells will be healthier...have more mitochondria...powerhouses... and we will live long healthy lives.

One of the best websites explaining the functions of Mg is as follows:
http://www.mdschoice.com/elements/elements/major_minerals/magnesium.htm

After reading the above, think about the implications when this mineral is deficient. Pay close attention to the DNA issues (cancer?)

P.S. It appears the Romanians used Mg along with abx. to cure. Valletta used Mg along with B vitamins.

You are catching on...wonderful...I hoped you would!

This puts the brakes on glycolysis (using sugar for energy). Bb follows the glycolysis and cholesterol forming pathways.

Put the brakes on these pathways = die-off.

Hydrogen is made from LOTS of acids (you've chosen vitamin C) reacting with a small amt. of something alkaline, like a mineral (you've chosen Na) or glycogen.

But you have to be able to CARRY that hydrogen INTO the cells so it can combine with the free oxygen radicals to make H2O2.

AND...the cells can't STAY acidic (H2O2 is an acid)...an ENZYME (catalase) is needed to break down H2O2 into H2O and O.

Guess what controls the enzymes?

WHy don't you pop onto the lymestrategies board on yahoo groups, join, and comment? It ought to be very interesting.
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/lymestrategies/

Also, I really don't understand the chemistry. When I mix them, is the hydrogen released in my body? IE can I mix my 8 grams of salt and 8 grams of C in a glass of water and sip it over the day and get my effects, or do I need to mix 1 gram and 1 gram and drink it down immediately to get my hydrogen bomb.

We use the Salt & C for the parasites. As a side effect, this protocol has an independent effect against the spirochetes. The high salt concentration kills large parasites, by osmotic dehydration (osmotic shock). The high salt intake promotes the activity of the enzyme elastase, which has a strong anti-spirochetal effect. Elastase puts holes into the cell wall of the germ and thus makes it susceptible to our herbals or other steps of treatment.

Talking about Salt & C, as a sideline, one of my doctor's patients had been paralyzed from the neck down and has been in a wheelchair for many years. With this treatment he became fully (motorically and sensorily) normal, can walk and work in his profession. As soon as he tries to lower the salt dosis, his feelings of paralysis in the legs return.

The oral salt therapy has also been described as follows: The enzyme elastase, found in neutrophils, is stimulated by high salt concentrations to remove a polypeptide LL-37 from the precursor protein CAP-18. A group of the polypeptides assemble into a pore and becomes imbedded into the outer membrane of the infectious microorganism, allowing potassium and other ions to escape, thereby killing the organism.

Re salt in general: As a rule, daily salt intake 100 years ago was something like 20 grams of unrefined, full and complete salt - not Mortons. We have been brainwashed to use no or little salt that also "rains"! (with aluminum as a drying agent).

Instead we have to use the complete salt that still contains all the minerals as nature intended it, such as Hunza or Real Salt. The salt we buy in the grocery store as Mortons has only two of the 80some minerals left - it has been refined!!!!!!!!! and is no longer a healthy food.

In countries that do not alter their salt supply, heart disease and arthritis are rare.
We cannot live without salt. The body makes hydrochloric acid from salt which is one of the essential digestive fluids. If food is not digested, watch out! It goes on and on. Read up on it.

Some great info about the good salt at:

www.americanbluegreen.com; www.realsalt.com; and great info at www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/salt.htm.

Salt deficiency: is the cause of many serious diseases. No kidding!

Take care.

Thank you, Marnie. I do wish and do try to understand your explanation for Oxygenbabe. I guess I am just not smart enough. I will take my doctor's explanation and run with it - Salt & C works!!!!!!!!!!!! Anything that punches a hole into these critters will do.

this is Hilary, long time! Glad to read on another post that your husband was helped with Salt and C. The protocol is really helping me after a horrendous relapse this last winter.

I have a question: does your doctor have people use this protocol long term? I had read somewhere that he only suggests doing it for three weeks. From your posts, it sounds as if he is more flexible here than other articles suggest.

best wishes -

Hilary

[QUOTE]Originally posted by GiGi:
[B]It was explained to me - I am translating from German:

Using mg rich natural salts is surely better than using salt tablets?

Gigi

Does Dr K say which salt to use?

Healing thoughts,

I linked a "picture" of what nutrients the pathogen that causes cholera takes from us as an example.

It's the H2O2 (acidic) can also "punch holes" in the cell walls...H2O2 comes from 2 hydrogens combining with 2 oxygens (free radicals).

But H2O2 would destroy our own cell walls if our cells remained acidic (H2O2 is an acid). In 1/400,000th of a SECOND, an ENZYME, called catalase, HAS to kick in to break this down.

H2O2 made, broken down, made, broken down...very fast all the time inside our cells.

Apparently we make/have a LOT of catalase...normally.

But you're all catching on...this all goes back to using the NUTRIENTS to help us to heal.

By nutrients, I mean the minerals (and/or glycogen) and the acids (lots of choices).

They do indeed help us to fight infections.

Thanks Gi, Gi for the elastase info. I need to go back to Google now ;-)...

What is the impact on our own healthy cells if high sodium ultimately (->) results in potassium and other ions escaping?

I am happy we are all working together, in a non hostile way, to try to piece this all together...what works and why, how, are there any dangers we should be aware of?

"Good" salt has many minerals, not just sodium, in it.

How 'bout a nice dip in the ocean ;-) if red tide is not around?

I don't have tome to find the references, I'll post later.

Mo