Trying to get more info. on abx. combos. and am endlessly curious about other folks' abx. history, especially those with chronic Lyme.
Would appreciate hearing from anyone who's combined three (or more) orals together - name of abx., classification, and dose, and your opinion of how well it worked for you.
Have done lots of searches here, read the polls and other articles but still feel like I'm missin' something (it's probably more a case of Information Overload)!
I DO feel like I'm researching my thesis all over again as I am forced to "study" Lyme disease...
Thanks in advance.
Posts: 63 | From Deer Grove, Illinois, United States | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Wow! I was born and raised in Rock Falls! Ever been to Arnie's Happy Spot? Anyway, I like your question and will be looking for the answer. I am a relative newbie. Haven't even had my first llmd appt yet - Nov 16! Good luck to you! Julie
Posts: 351 | From La Crosse, WI | Registered: Sep 2005
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NP40
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6711
posted
There's lots of combo's out there. Babs treatment = zithromax/mepron/artemisinin or zith/plaquenil/art.
There's a multitude for lyme as well with varying degrees of effectiveness. Thing is, treatment is individualized based upon the unique experiences of the patient. Some swear by doxycycline, others hated it. Some improved greatly on rocephin, many others relapsed or had gall bladder problems.
The greatest improvement my son showed was on IV zithromax. However, he did 3 months of IV rocephin previous to this. Was the rocephin useless ? Did it lower his bacterial load and then the zith became effective ? Who really knows ? You try different things until you hit on something that works for you.
Posts: 1632 | From Northern Wisconsin | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Dr. B.'s guidelines covers most sets of abx for each form of Bb, and sets of abx for each kind of insect-borne infection. this would be a best start on the topic.
Posts: 2708 | Registered: Feb 2005
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caat
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posted
the "L" forms are spirochetes that are newly emerged from the cyst forms. I have a feeling it's VERY likely they are susceptable to the same abx as the adults. They just sort of look like bent young adult forms to me.
I honestly think I got rid of long term nuero lyme with a combo of rocephin/flagyl (4 weeks) immediately followed by ceftin/tinni (4 weeks). With diflucan and then chaparelle herb for the yeast (should have taken more of diflucan).
No pulsing.
cephalasporin/flagyls were taken *At The Same Time*.
I did this tx AFTER I'd been on high dose doxy for 3 years with a couple periods of flagyl mixed in there, so my spirochete load was probley fairly low to start with.
I am no longer having the classic lyme herx cycles I've always had with new drugs, and everything feels different. I think what I am left with is co-infection(s), probley bart, but not sure. Bart is not susceptable to cephalasporins. and some species of bart in chronic infections are not cured by doxy alone.
Posts: 1436 | From Humboldt county ca usa | Registered: Mar 2002
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caat
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posted
Oh... interestingly enough the chaparelle herb seemed to me to cross the bbb *when taken with rocephin*. Which is strange because chaparelle as a rule does not cross the bbb.
However, I don't think chaparelle does much at all for lyme. I used it before antibiotics without any result at all for lyme. It's good for yeast and some GI/bladder infections.
Posts: 1436 | From Humboldt county ca usa | Registered: Mar 2002
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the first month of treatment my llmd put me on three different antibiotics. They where ceferoxime axetl 1000MG, biaxin 1000MG, and tindizole 1500MG PER DAY. He said that they would hit all lyme forms.WOW DID IT HIT HARD. I was only on the combo for one month because i herxed so bad i couldnt stand it. It was a month of tourcher but i believe it definetly helped. especially some of the nerve problems. Still have a long ways to go though considering i am only in my second month of treatment and just found out i have bart also. But i think that combo isnt a bad one to try, at least for me it helped.
StuckonLyme
Posts: 82 | From Northeast WI | Registered: Oct 2005
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It's not that I want to copy anyone's regimen. I know we all respond differently. Am just trying to understand how these abx. work and why (dream on, right?!) as they are the cornerstone of treatment for LB.
What I hate MOST about this disease is the ambiguity and subjectivity surrounding abx. therapy. What works for one person is a total failure for another. Drives me nuts!
Jsnyde2 - I'm about two miles away from Arnie's! Small world, huh?!
Pq - thank you. I've read Dr. B's guidelines. On p. 15 of 9/05 guidelines he states that ``metronidazole (can be combined) with one or two other antibiotics to target all forms of Bb''. Guess I just wish he'd given an example here. There are several drugs that can be combined with Flagyl.
My doc recommended Flagyl 250mg. with Bactrim DS 400mg. Have been trying to figure out on my own what an effective 3rd drug would be. I know that I need to just decide on a protocol (with help from my doc) and go with it. Just wish I understood this all better. This disease makes me feel inept in EVERY way. Grrr.
Caat - Interesting about Chaparelle - another one to learn about. Can't afford IV's right now so Rocephin is probably down the road a ways.
Stuckonlyme - Glad that Ceftin + Biaxin + Tinidazole worked for you (though it didn't feel good at the time!). Do you know what the major difference is between Flagyl and Tinidazole?
Posts: 63 | From Deer Grove, Illinois, United States | Registered: Jan 2005
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
A word for homeopathy and Lyme.
As best as I can tell, I contracted Lyme 10 years ago at which time I suffered a "mystery" illness for 6 mths which the drs never could identify. Lyme test was negative, but they treated me with a round of doxycycline anyway as well as a number of other antibiotics. My main symptom was fatigue with some joint pain. Fast forward to July of this year when I began a holistic program called Bioset for my allergies. This activated the Lyme (which really was not fully dormant, just causing problems no one ever related to Lyme). This time, I had severe joint pain and swelling. The chiropractor treating me sent me to a pain specialist in Maryland who diagnosed the Lyme. He said I have had this awhile and explained to me why antibiotics cannot kill this bacteria. He prescribed 13 homeopathic remedies including one titled Borrelia (I call this one the BAD MEDICINE, because I herx so badly on it) As I took the medicine my symptoms worsened which frightened me alot! I read and researched everything I could find about this disease and found that antibiotics are not a cure. I couldn't find much literature on the homeopathy except it does not cause adverse reactions, therefore, the incredible pain, swelling, numbness I was encountering was not an allergic reaction. I made an appt for a 2nd opinion from a known LLMD but he can't see me until 11/21/05, so I had no option but to continue the remedies. My first symptoms began in July. I started the remedies first of September. I AM GETTING BETTER!!!!! So much better. And this time I have not suffered any chronic fatigue. Based upon my research, here is what I believe. Antibiotics have limited success because the borrelia mutates and hides in a dormant state from the antibiotics. Hence, while on antibiotics you feel better, but once off, the problems return. Since antibiotics are not selective in what they attack, your own immune system is severely compromised which could be causing or at least excerbating chronic fatigue. Homeopathy, on the other hand, caused me more pain due to the effects of the die off. We know borellia can hide from the immune system, but the borellia can't hide from my immune system because, homeopathy works similar to a vaccine in that it is the essence of the disease. "Like cures Like". Borellia may trick my immune system into thinking it is ok to be there and my i.m. won't produce the needed antigen to kill the borellia, but the remedy comes into my system and says "Hey, Immune System, look at me! I'm Borellia!" So now my I.M. produces the needed antigen and whams the real bacteria. Since this process does not compromise my I.M., I have not suffered any chronic fatigue this time. My reactions are getting noticeably weaker and I am getting back to normal life again. I'm not well yet, but my doctor promised "cure" and by gosh, I believe he is right! I'm so excited, I want to shout this from the rooftops. Why is so little tx being done with Homeopathy and why is so much tx being done with antibiotics when all sources admit they aren't very effective?
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Best triple combo for me has been 2 Septra double strength...taken in a.m. with pacquenil 200mg.
tinidazole 500 mg. twice a day w/vit.B6 50mg..4 days on...and 4 days off pulsed; (for cyst form)
Biaxin XL 1000 mg. with Plaquenil.
-------------------- nan Posts: 2135 | From Tick Country | Registered: Oct 2000
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liz28
Unregistered
posted
I took various combinations, and they all worked to some degree. Here's a list of the combinations I'm on, and also some related antibiotics that had an effect:
Lyme:
omnicef 300mg 2x day (Have also taken rocephin, which is great, and ceftin, which is weaker but still works well.)
ketek 400mg 2x/day (Is the next generation of zithromax, and is much stronger, but zith is still really useful, especially in drug combinations where you have to use a weaker macrolide and let another drug be the big gun.)
flagyl (Fantastic drug, but you have to be careful with it, because it can repress certain co-infections like bartonella without curing them. Tinidazole also has an excellent reputation. Will cause a massive herx.)
Some other drugs I've heard are helpful are claforan, minocycline, doxycycline, biaxin and bicillin.
Unfortunately, all of these were totally useless until I addressed the co-infections. There's a lot of debate about these. Here's what seemed to help me:
Babesia:
mepron 10ml/2x day artemisinin 300mg/day ketek 400mg/2x day
Bartonella (Is almost interchangeable with Lyme, and is turning into the new Lymenet baddie):
rifampin 300mg 2x/day (some people prefer cipro or levaquin)
ketek 400mg/2x day (some people prefer zithromax or bactrim/septra)
There are rumors that ketek helps with mycoplasma, but that's a job for Google.
I did the DMSA heavy metal detox for four months. It didn't have any effect on Lyme and the co-infections, BUT... it did have a noticeable, and positive, effect.
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I added Flagyl 500mg. to Biaxin 1000mg + Sulfa 1600mg. yesterday.
Whoa! Dr. B. says it takes 48-72 hours to have a herx reaction so maybe my body was just saying `what the h__ll?!' to the drugs...I don't have any drug allergies (at least I never have in the past).
In any case, I broke out in an allover body rash/itch. I didn't really flush but itched and burned from head to toe. My palms almost started bleeding I was scratching them so much. So I chugged some aloe vera juice, popped another (10 billion) probiotic, drank two glasses of water, clenched my teeth and rode it out - until 5am!
I made it through and am tolerating the combo. much better today.
Thanks everyone. Have addressed Bartonella with Rifampin but don't think I was on it long enough (only five weeks). Waiting to get prescription assistance for Mepron before I can tackle Babesia.
So nan, you were on the same regimen. I asked my doc if I needed Plaquenil and he said no...
Liz28, my toxin levels are sky high - so I'm going to look into the DMSA heavy metal detox. protocol. I know I don't do enough to detox - I take Diflucan and Nystatin and tried charcoal for a while. I also try to stick to the detox diet.
I never considered homeopathy for LB until I read luvs2ride post in another thread. It does make sense in the backwards kind of homeopathic way but I'm going the abx. route first.
Posts: 63 | From Deer Grove, Illinois, United States | Registered: Jan 2005
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henson2
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 463
posted
Hi,
I'm very interested in people saying they take Bactrim.
I took Bactrim for a UTI and felt like it was doing something for the Lyme.... but LLMD did not want me on Bactrim for the Lyme at that time.
Can anyone tell me more about it, either here or in another thread? (I didn't want to totally hijack lymebites' thread on the combos).
This is very interesting! Thank you Warm wishes to everyone to feel better very soon!
Posts: 1066 | From East Coast | Registered: Dec 2000
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This disease makes me feel inept in EVERY way. Grrr.
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