SForsgren
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Does anyone know how long Bb can survive outside of the body? It has been reported that it can withstand heat of over 1000 degrees and also that it has been found on various surfaces external to the body. If it does not have a "host", how long can it survive?
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GiGi
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Scott, remember the wonderful lecture we got at Dr. K.'s seminar:
" There are fully grown spirochetes only present in an untreated patient. The moment you throw any treatment in there, they do two things: they either go inside the cell, called L-form: comes from the name Lister (Lister was a British microbiologist); they shed their cell wall and their shape and they look like a little dot, like a little grain of sand inside the cell - you can no longer tell what it is.
The other thing they do outside the cell is that they can encyst themselves within a fraction of a second -- when you put any toxin (abx or..) in there, they go into a cystic form.
Yes, in their cystic form they can withstand fire up to 1000 degrees (don't know whether he was talking Fahrenheit or Celsius and basically the only thing that is going to survive after we are all gone is the spirochete cysts in us and probably many other places. That is the only way that we are going to be able to tell that you were there.
Don't worry - they were here 30,000 years ago and we are never going to be without them. We need to live with them in harmony. We need to change the world to where they are less aggressive. We need to change our environment where their survival is not threatened. That's all they want - because if we go, where are they all going to get their collagen, their feed...........
We need to reduce the co-toxicity factor, because they want to survive. Dr. K. calls them highly intelligent microbes in very unevolved bodies! We have messed up big time -- that is why they are threatening to do away with us. With us, the toxic ones. Remember, other people carry them in all forms and they are not as sick as we are (or were - in my case).
Did anyone listen to the science delivered on 60 Minutes and the state of our environment???????
Gosh, I finally figured out to work the gremlins!
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SForsgren
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I recall that part of the seminar. The part I am missing then is once a cyst is no longer in the body, how long can it survive? So, after the body is gone and the cyst is stil there, it lives for how long and could potentially reproduce for how long? It seems to me that it would need some "food source" to live for very long. Thanks GiGi
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GiGi
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They have been with us for many thousands of years and will be part of this planet forever. We may not be here, but they will and the planet will. They are making a good case for it at this present time. They are stark raving mad and are survivors and will survive us. We have to find the balance again where they can live and we can live.
120,000 new chemicals every year? or how many??????
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SForsgren
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I understand that the "bugs" will be with us forever, but I am trying to understand how long a single cyst or single spirochete could live outside the body. Don't they still need something to feed on? Say one cyst leaves body somehow and lands on a surface. What happens to it? Does it eventually die or can it stay in cyst form indefintely? It must need some "fuel" source, right? Thanks GiGi
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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on a related note w/rt to utilizing enzymes vs. heating to high temps. to accomplish the alteration on proteins, carbs., lipids and combinations thereof,one purpose of enzymes(catalysts), catabolic, and anabolic, is to accomplish the same goal as the heating, but at temps. order(s) of magnitude lower than it would o/w take to accomplish the task(s) of processing proteins, carbs,etc.
so the rechts-regulat,and other enzyme products, will, to a large extent digest the coats of many, not all, microbes. those enzymes, such as lysozyme, which have abx properties, will kill certain kinds of bacteria; other enzymes will "injure" Bb,and other bacteria, etc., thereby setting them up for attack by the imm., syst. and abx.
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hardynaka
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Hi Scott, I don't know for the cystic form of Bb, but I remember clearly reading that the bactery borrelia cannot live outside the body. If it has contact with oxygen it dies immediately.
I talked with a biologist once, he told me there are quite many bacteries that 'live' in the environment like that, that need a host to survive and that won't survive in nature/ open air.
I wonder if this would be valid for cystic form though... Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Good stuff. It seams a cyst might be able to survive outside the body. Inside the cyst the keets will still be in a anaerobic conditions. But without a host the cyst can't do much. My guess (the pubmed article below hints at it) is that as GiGi states once in contact with hazardous substances (like oxygen) it snaps into it's cyst form. In this form it should survive the stomach acids go into the gut and start anew.
Farrell GM, Marth EH.
Department of Food Science, University of Wisconsin-Madison 53706.
Borrelia burgdorferi was identified as the etiological agent of Lyme disease in 1982. This Gram-negative spirochete is classified in the order Spirochaetales and the family Spirochaetaceae. The pathogen is fastidious, microaerophilic, mesophilic and metabolises glucose through the Embden-Meyerhof pathway. A generation time of 11 to 12 h at 37 degrees C in Barbour-Stoenner-Kelly medium has been reported. Lyme disease, named after Lyme in Connecticut, is distributed globally. It is the most commonly reported vector-borne disease in the United States, where the incidence is highest in the eastern and midwestern states. Since establishment of national surveillance in 1982, there has been a nine-fold increase in the number of cases reported to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control. The deer tick of the genus Ixodes is the primary vector of Lyme borreliosis. The tick may become infected with B. burgdorferi, by feeding on an infected host, at any point in its 2-year life cycle which involves larval, nymphal and adult stages. The infection rate in deer ticks may be as high as 40% in endemic areas. The primary vertebrate reservoirs for Ixodes are the white-footed mouse (Peromyscus leucopus) and the white-tailed deer (Odocopileus virginianus). Dairy cattle and other food animals can be infected with B. burgdorferi and hence some raw foods of animal origin might be contaminated with the pathogen. Recent findings indicate that the pathogen may be transmitted orally to laboratory animals, without an arthropod vector. Thus, the possibility exists that Lyme disease can be a food infection. In humans, the symptoms of Lyme disease, which manifest themselves days to years after the onset of infection, may involve the skin, cardiac, nervous and/or muscular systems, and so misdiagnosis can occur.
Publication Types:
* Review * Review, Tutorial
PMID: 1790102 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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5dana8
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Shelley
They replicate inside the csyt because that is a safer environment. It can with stand high temps and are not threatened by abx.
Its a safe little hotel for them
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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SForsgren
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quote:Originally posted by 5dana8: Shelley
They replicate inside the csyt because that is a safer environment. It can with stand high temps and are not threatened by abx.
Its a safe little hotel for them
So that leads me to another question:
If one spirochete goes into cyst form, is there generally still only one per cyst or do they release many ketes when they reopen?
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GiGi
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Scott,
I do not know. I do not have the science in front of me, but if they survive 1000 degrees temperature, I don't think they need anything else to survive. Many microbes go into a cystic form and live/exist all around us, inside us, and outside of us, in nature. Many of them are necessary for life. They are part of a total eco-system, the eco system in which we live, in the plant and animal world.
We are never sterile. We cannot be sterile. We are never free of living microorganisms. Microbes in all their forms are always part of us, inside and out. If their survival is threatened and the conditions are good, they hatch.
Toooooooo many threats directed at them and they fight for their survival just as we do. We happen to pick horrible weapons called antibiotics == translated "anti" = "against" and "bio" = "life". That alone grows more of other microorganisms that make us just as sick or even more sick if they are overabundant. Chemicals poured over our fields and pastures kill, and they survive and hatch! Our own survival is already diminished -- infertility! and sperm banks.
I wish I had the answers. I only know that if we continue the way we are, it is going to be more deadly.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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quote:Originally posted by cave76: Is there a published article that said, in effect, I put one of those puppies on a lab table (out of a body) and watched it for X number of days........ yada yada. Just nit-picky, that's all.
quite right, but all the good stuff is probably not published anymore. I think we answered the question that a host is needed for survival. the question of how long a gestation period it has? could it last 1000 years put it back in a host and wallah out hatches little keets? (plural) one of my remaining memory cells remembers seeing a picture of tiny keets coming out from a cyst.
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Marnie
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posted
Old file:
Bb and temperature
When MOTILE forms of B. burgdorferi were exposed to RBC for 1 week at 37 degrees C (98.6F), the minimal bactericidal concentration (MBC) was > 64 mg/ml. At 30 degrees C (86.0F), the MBC was > 256 mg/ml.
PMID: 12051564
``In other words Lyme bacteria all die at a temperature of 106 Fahrenheit for 24 hours. It's a higher temp than what kills Syphilis.
Unfortunately that could kill you too.
But they do have a hard time at 102F, and at 103 or 104. One of the problems with heat therapy is some tissues in your body might be a bit cooler and the bacteria there might survive. It can be dangerous therapy if it's not done in moderation.
Temperature treatment for spirochetal illnesses has it's roots in the old Malaria therapy for Syphilis. The old Malaria therapy had a death rate of 1/20, and a successful complete remission rate of 50%. Some people just soak in very hot baths in addition to other therapies and swear by it.
(Cysts and spore forms of pathogen can survive a lot of temperature variations. In a ``hostile'' environment, Bb reverts to a cyst form within 20 minutes. You DO feel better when Bb converts to a cyst form.)
How does B burgdorferi know when to express certain proteins? For instance, when B burgdorferi is inside ticks, at approximately 23�C (73.4 F), the surface of the spirochete is covered with OspA and OspB. But when the organism gets into mammals, at an average temperature of 35-37�C (95.0 F - 98.6 F) OspC is the predominant surface antigen. So, does temperature affect gene expression? Dr. Scott Samuels, PhD,[12] of the University of Montana, Missoula, presented some highly technical research on how the Lyme disease spirochete manages this transformation. The process appears to be mediated by supercoiling of DNA. (For a description and pictures of DNA supercoiling, see the handy Web site from the Mount Sinai School of Medicine.[13]) Supercoiled DNA can be visualized as a coiled phone cord; the more you twist it, the more tightly wrapped it becomes. Untwisting the DNA opens up the loops and coils. It turns out that the degree of supercoiling is determined by the temperature: at the lower temperature of ticks, B burgdorferi DNA is more supercoiled, and the OspC gene is expressed at only a low level. By contrast, at the higher temperatures seen in mammals, DNA is less supercoiled, and the OspC gene is expressed at higher levels. The next step for Dr. Samuels' team is to determine what is affecting expression of the other 2 surface protein genes. http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/418448
An important feature is the temperature-dependent influence of HCQ on mobile bacteria and cysts.
At 30 �C (86.0 F), higher amounts of HCQ are required to destroy the cysts than at 37 �C (98.6 F).
This is in agreement with the results obtained with other antibiotics [8,42] and may be significant when cysts are located in the dermis. In a previous report of susceptibility testing of normal mo- bile B. burgdorferi to HCQ, the MBCs ranged from 50 to 90 lg/mlfor different strains; there was no information, however, about the incubation temperature [13].
Since macrolides are also more active in an alkaline environment, a combination ther- apy with HCQ and a macrolide seems advantageous
(HCQ = hydroxychloroquine - Plaquenil - used for malaria)
To survive heat shocks during vector-borne transmission, the gram-negative Borrelia pathogen therefore expresses HSP-60 and HSP-70 [82], which are members of the evolutionary conserved HSP family. This form of vector adaptation is essential during rapid changes in temperature, in particular when transmitted from ticks to their warm-blooded hosts [83] including birds. In the absence of other vertebrate hosts on certain islands, the presence of Borrelia in I. uriae ticks suggests seabirds to be competent reservoirs and amplifying hosts. In contrast to B. burgdorferi sensu stricto being cleared from the respective Ixodes vectors at 37�C (98.6 F) [84], a temperature of 38�C (100.4 F) is permissive for the transmission of B. garinii [81]. The relatively low body temperature of 38�C (100.4 F) in marine birds, compared to the body temperature of terrestrial birds of 40�C (104.0 F), explains why these B. burgdorferi s.l. spirochaetes are particularly adapted to seabirds [29]. But the pathogen's success of transmission also depends on its ability to replicate and survive within a host for long periods. One option is to remain latent inside the long-lived cells of the CNS whose temperature is about 38� (100.4 F) in humans. This coincidence elucidates the characteristic spread and neurotropism of B. garinii, which is frequently associated with neurological manifestations [85]. In vitro evidence suggests early invasion of the CNS by B. burgdorferi sensu lato by adherence of this organism to sphingolipids [86]. Functionally linked to a flagellar protein, HSP-60 is thereby involved in binding to the neural cell surface for intrusion into the CNS [87,88]. As HSP-60 is a major immunodominant antigen of B. burgdorferi [89], it comes as no surprise that antibodies to HSP-60 were also detected in the synovial fluid of Lyme arthritis patients [90]. Although still a controversial issue [91-93], molecular mimicry of flagellar epitopes, which are highly antigenic [94], may misdirect antibodies against host tissues as well [95,96]. For pathogens must avoid being destroyed by the immune response while maintaining access to a new host, and protracted antigenic exposure destabilises the immune system. http://www.ij-healthgeographics.com/content/1/1/5
The normal temp of a dog is 101 F.
Not quite what you asked for, but interesting, I hope.
Posts: 9426 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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quote:Originally posted by GiGi: We happen to pick horrible weapons called antibiotics == translated "anti" = "against" and "bio" = "life".
as always enjoyed your post!
Well they worked for awhile. 60 years or so. problem is this toxic war has been going on sense the begining of time. that it only took 60 years for them to defeat abx shows what an impossibility traditional abx are for the masses. As to the future I'm very optimistic. Borrelia like all other pathogens are toxic to silver. Mammals are not.
Posts: 731 | From Humble,TX | Registered: Feb 2005
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SForsgren
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Thanks to both GiGi and Marnie for the information offered.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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GiGi
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Brent, I used Silver in different forms for 30 days. That's when Dr. K. stopped it. "Any metal can become toxic to the human body, but it is even more difficult to get out of the body than mercury." These are his exact words. And when he talks, I listen.
I am just mentioning it here because you feel positive about silver. And that's okay.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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quote:Originally posted by GiGi: These are his exact words. And when he talks, I listen.
I am just mentioning it here because you feel positive about silver. And that's okay.
Take care.
GiGi, it's that blind obedience to medicine which got us in this mess. The WHO organization has declared it completely safe. on most everything else we agree Posts: 731 | From Humble,TX | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by SForsgren: It has been reported that it can withstand heat of over 1000 degrees and also that it has been found on various surfaces external to the body.
Scott, can you point me to the report that said it can withstand heat of over 1000 degrees?
Thanks.
-------------------- **Eat Chocolate** Posts: 942 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2005
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
1000 degrees C = 1832 fahreneit
The only thing Iam aware of that withstands temps that high and can have effects on humans is CWD and thats not {cwd cell wall deficient} it stands for Chronic Wasting Disease which the protein that is folded wrong takes over 2000 degrees to destroy.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
Dr issels liked fever therapy does Dr K ever mention this. It makes sense to me.
Wallace
FEVER THERAPY: RESTORING REGULATORY MECHANISMS - A POWERFUL IMMUNE ENHANCEMENT An Overview by Ilse Marie Issels, 2002
Fever therapy, or pyretotherapy, is the induction of fever under clinical conditions for therapeutical purposes. Clinical research suggests that fever is one of the body's most effective means to restore its complex regulatory, repair and defense mechanisms.
Historically, Greek physicians of the antiquity used the curative effects of fever to treat a variety of diseases, including syphilis, tuberculosis, and others. However, modern linear-mechanistic thinking regards fever as a symptom of illness which has to be fought and suppressed. Fever is not recognized and therapeutically used anymore as the (desirable) symptom of the body's fight against bacterial, viral, or other invaders, and self-generated dangers to health.
There are many ways of raising the body's temperature. The most well known natural means are hot baths, steam baths, saunas, among others. The rise in body temperature achieved by these means is, however, not understood as fever. Neither is hyperthermia (originating from the Greek language "hyper" meaning "higher" or "excess" and "thermia" meaning "heat") called fever therapy. In hyperthermia treatment "excess heat" is directed to parts of the body or the whole body by the use of devices (e.g. microwave or ultra short wave). Hyperthermia has become an adjunct weapon in the treatment of various cancers, as cancer cells are more sensitive to heat than healthy cells. It works by heat destruction, as well as by stimulating the immune system through heat-shock proteins that present on the surface of heat-treated cancer cells.
The raise of the body's temperature through the above mentioned means is artificially provoked from the outside, and may be called "passive" fever.
The term fever therapy applies when the body's "temperature control center" in the tuber cinereum of the mid brain is irritated by certain stimuli and induced to autonomically develop a febrile reaction: "active" fever. Special herbal preparations such as mistletoe lectins, among others, biological autologous preparations (from the patient's own body tissues and fluids), biological homologous preparations, or mixed bacterial vaccines have been successfully used to induce fever.
William B. Coley, who was the Attending Bone Surgeon at Memorial Hospital, now Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center, New York, from 1893 to 1936, pioneered fever therapy in cancer. He observed that several sarcoma patients, and especially one patient suffering from recurrent inoperable sarcoma of the neck, experienced tumor remission after developing erysipelas, a superficial streptococcal infection of the skin accompanied by high fever.
He pursued his studies and developed a vaccine that became known as Coley's Toxins or Mixed Bacterial Vaccines, MBV. These vaccines contain a combination of heat killed gram positive Streptococcus pyogenes and gram negative Bacillus prodigiosus, now called Serratia marcescens. In 1943, M.J. Shears, researcher at the National Cancer Institute, discovered that the biologically active substance in Coley's Toxins is lipopolysaccharide (LPS) that occurs in the cell walls of gram-negative bacteria.
Coley's Toxins fall within the field of immunotherapy and have been gaining attention by cancer research.
Administered intramuscularly or intravenously, depending on individual conditions of patients who qualify for this treatment, these vaccines induce fever for several hours, which subsides on its own. During the rise of the fever, patients get chills and feel flu-like symptoms, such as headache, back pain, nausea and pain in the tumor area. Tumors may swell during the fever treatment and sometimes, a few days thereafter, patients notice already a reduction in tumor size. Usually patients developing high temperatures up to 104 F, feel better more quickly than patients whose temperature remains below 102 F.
Fever therapy by Coley's Toxins or Mixed Bacterial Vaccines provokes a power ful reaction of the immune system. Research studies explain the anti tumor effect of Coley's Toxins through induction of interferon, augmentation of natural killer cell activity, stimulation of lymphoid tissues, activation of macrophages, induction of serum factor that causes necrosis of tumors, as well as stimulation of interleukin 2.
Fever therapy has not only a significant effect on the immune system, i.e. the constitutive lympho-reticular defense zone, but on all the defense zones, and especially the reticulo-histiocytary defense zone, i.e the pluripotent mesenchyme. This defense zone, also referred to as the "regulatory ground system" by Pischinger and Heine is the system of basic regulation.
It consists of the cells of the connective tissues, the fluid and semi-fluid of the extra cellular space, and the solid extra cellular matrix, also known as the ground substance whose properties vary with each specific type of connective tissue. Every cell is intimately linked to and depends on its surrounding medium: the extra cellular space, i.e. the extra cellular fluid from which it absorbs the nutrients and to which it releases the waste products of its metabolism.
The regulatory ground system fulfills many vital tasks, such as stem cell function and formation of all types of blood cells; transit functions allowing communication and interactivity of nerves, blood cells, the lymph system, and organs; maintenance of homeostasis; detoxification; storage (of nutrients and toxins); and defense.
In view of its importance to all basic regulatory processes, the ground system plays a decisive role in the origin, prevention and treatment of chronic diseases and cancer. A prolonged disturbance of this system will result in a dysfunction of cells, organs and organ systems, and ultimately in an impairment of the repair and immune mechanisms. In the case of cancer a mal-functioning immune system (immune surveillance) cannot properly detect and neutralize cancer cells that are a daily occurrence in every vertebrate organism. These cells can settle down at the site of least resistance and form a malignant tumor. Experience has shown, however, that restored regulatory, repair and immune functions can alter the medium, the extra cellular space surrounding the cancer cells, to an extent that induces cancer cells to re-differentiate, i.e. revert to normal cells. Normal healthy cells die when they have fulfilled their task. This programmed cell death is called apoptosis.
In disease prevention every effort should be made to avoid the persistence of noxious influences that will disturb the regulatory ground system. In chronic disease and cancer, experience indicates that therapeutic endeavors reach their optimum when they include measures that restore the proper functioning of the regulatory ground system.
One of these measures is fever therapy. During high fever, the internal environment of the body, on the cellular as well as the humoral levels, undergoes a fundamental change and all defensive and recuperative powers are brought to a high pitch.
Febrile reactions stimulate the mobilization and elimination of metabolic residues and other unwanted deposits from the storage cells of the mesenchyme. They clear toxicants from latent congenital infections (e.g. TB), as well as from acute and chronic infections the body was not able or not allowed (overuse of antibiotics, steroids) to get rid of by developing an autonomic febrile reaction. These deposits, if not eliminated, reduce the storage capacity of the mesenchyme, and simultaneously the ability of immunocompetent tissues to react.
The pluripotent mesenchyme, i.e. the regulatory ground system, will become impaired in the fulfillment of its many vital tasks. A mesenchymal "block", in parallel with a lowering of the defense potential may result, which is considered by many authors as a major precondition for the development of chronic degenerative diseases and cancer.
Fever therapy has shown to be one of the most effective ways of cleansing the internal terrain, re-establishing homeostasis, lifting the "blockade" of the system of basic regulation, and restoring immune mechanisms to normal function.
Starting in 1951, in his hospital in Germany, Josef M. Issels, M.D. administered several 100.000 fever treatments without any adverse side effects or complications to thousands of his patients suffering from progressive metastatic cancer. Studies carried out in his hospital showed the remarkable immune enhancing effect of fever therapy. One study involving the administration of mixed bacterial vaccines similar to Coley's Toxins compared the patients' white blood count of the morning before fever therapy with the count of 24 hours after the peak of the fever. The values rose temporarily, e.g. from 4,000 to 10,000, from 6,000 to 20,000 and from 9,000 to 40,000. They normalized gradually during the next few days.
Other studies at the Issels hospital showed that in various types of advanced cancer, chemotherapy could be reduced by one third, sometimes half, of the commonly prescribed dosage with the same cytotoxic effect, when it was administered at the peak of the fever, thus considerably reducing toxic side effects.
Fever therapy has been an integral part of the comprehensive Issels Therapy.
Clinical research suggests that the restoration of the non-specific regulatory mechanisms of the ground system appears to be an important precondition for specific immunotherapy to reach its optimal effect.
References:
Coley-Nauts, H., Fouler, G.A., M.D., Bogatko, F.H., M.D. "A Review of the Influence of Bacterial Infection and of Bacterial Products (Coley's Toxins) on Malignant Tumors in Men" 1953, Stockholm.
Heine, H., M.D. "Matrix and Matrix Regulation" Significance of the extracellular matrix. Lecture at Biological Therapy Symposium, 1992, Lisbon, Portugal.
Issels, J.M., M.D. Cancer: A Second Opinion. 1999, New York, Avery Publ. Group ISBN 0-89529-992-5.
Wiemann, B., Starnes, Ch.O. "Coley's Toxins, Tumor Necrosis Factor and Cancer research: A Historical Perspective" 1994, Pharmac.Ther. Vol. 64, 529-564.
All Rights Reserved. � 1995-2005
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Posts: 654 | Registered: Oct 2003
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I would like to know how long they can live on a surface too.
I worked in a dental office for awhile - We know that HIV can live on the counter for a certain amount of hours...Hepatitis B can live for a few days on the counter I believe...
So in this environment we are saying that lyme cannot live at all once it is exposed to oxygen?
In the name of public health there needs to be a clear answer to this question...
Posts: 655 | From NC, Exit 88 on the Deer SuperHighway | Registered: Dec 2004
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Carol in PA
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Wallace, You quoted,
"Historically, Greek physicians of the antiquity used the curative effects of fever to treat a variety of diseases, including syphilis, tuberculosis, and others."
Hmmm, I thought that syphilis was brought to Europe from the Americas by Columbus's men.
Carol
Posts: 6947 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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GiGi
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Member # 259
posted
Heard from Dr. K.: A group of German researchers have cultured Lyme and Company from swobs taken from public telephones and public door handles. Not a single swob they took did not produce Lyme life.
Recently, the microbes of Bartonella quint. were found in a mass grave of soldiers from Napoleon's defeated army almost two hundred years ago.
I don't think hold or cold, oxygen or no oxygen makes any difference. They are with us and we need to employ other means to reduce their numbers and to learn to live with them without them hurting us and without our hurting them. We are all one eco system - the sooner we understand and act accordingly, the better off we will all be. They will not go away, but if we don't see the warning lights, we might not be.
What do you think we should start? Turning out the SUV??? or just turning off the lights when we leave the room???
Take care.
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