Topic: Difflucan Efffective Against Chronic Lyme Infection
Greatcod
Unregistered
posted
This was originally posted by California Lyme on the SciMedLyme board, and in my view is very encouraging. Difflucan has been proven effective on treatment resistant TB, a bacterial infection, in English patients. A German doctor has reported succesfull treatment of Lyme patients with Difflucan, but this is the first published study. The sample is small, but the results are very encouraging. The subjects here have neuroLyme, and are chronics, not just acute cases. I have had some success with a couple of 25 day courses. Its been 20 years for me now, and for the first time, the muscle pain, the fibro is gone. The crashes are less severe, and the fatigue is lessened. The German doctor said that those of us who have ben sick for a long time may need as much as a year of treatment.
1: Eur J Med Res. 2004 Jul 30;9(7):334-6. Related Articles, Links
Clinical effects of fluconazole in patients with neuroborreliosis.
Eleven patients with neuro-borreliosis had been treated with 200 mg fluconazole daily for 25 days after an unsuccessful therapy with antibiotics. At the end of treatment eight patients had no borreliosis symptoms and remained free of relapse in a follow-up examination one year later. In the remaining four patients, symptoms were considerably improved. At the end of therapy immune reactivity (IgM+) disappeared in three patients. Since borrelia spp. are almost exclusively localised intracellular, they may depend on certain metabolites of their eucaryotic host cell. Inhibition of P450 and other cytochromes by fluconazole may incapacitate Borrelia upon longterm exposure.
PMID: 15337633 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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cantgiveupyet
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posted
i noticed a difference with my nubmness in the first 30 days that i was on it. even my eye twitch vanished.
from what i understand basically the diflucan knocks away at the BB and gets it to a small enough amount in our system that our own immune can handle it.
-------------------- "Say it straight simple and with a smile."
"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet, But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."
-Schopenhauer
pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg Posts: 3156 | From Lyme limbo | Registered: Oct 2005
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
It seems to help some people and not others, as usual with lyme treatments.
Wondering if they aren't actually treating candida, which can cause similar symptoms and may be present because of previous abx therapy.
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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mlkeen
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Member # 1260
posted
Lou-
I have wondered if after 2.5 years of abx the diflucan was doing a clean up operation on my son and myself. The end result for us is very good.
Our llmd has recently started using diflucan as a first treatment for some patients with encouraging results. Some may have had abx from other doctors but some have not. We haven't been to see him in a number of months but I have scheduled a visit more to get an uprate on how others are doing on diflucan than anything else.
We were part of his first group to try it and I know he has changed the protocol a bit. How and why I'll have to ask him.
The more I read about yeast and a diet of high carb and sugar, pretty much all of us before lyme, I tend to agree that yeast is a problem for most people, just not symptomatic but enough to overwhelm the immune system and prevent it from being able to be strong for TBI, creating the downward spiral we are so familar with.
We did 3 months of diflucan and were symptom free when we stopped. Lots of herxing but not severe. Now we are taking it once every 5 days. The first month of pulsing scared me because we felt a bit symptomtic so we pulsed a little ketex.( We had extra stress too, with a death) I fessed up to doc and went back to diflucan alone and we are seeing fewer sysmptoms this month on the days off.
It is very early in the process and too soon to know how many it can help or the long term results.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96223 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Greatcod
Unregistered
posted
The diflucan would certainly impact any yeast infection the patient might have. Keep in mind, though, that using Diflucan to treat bacterial infection is based on the results physicians achieved in England, where it was used successfully to treat ABX resistance TB. Diflucan treats yeast infection by attacking the P450 process, whatever that may be. That metabolic process in fungi is shared by a few bacteria, including the TB and Lyme. As far as I know, this is the first controled study of Diflucan treatment of Lyme. And the results are all positive. People who have been sick for a long time, and have a greater bacterial load, will certainly require longer treatment periods. A common sense thing, but usually overlooked in ancedotal reports of treatment outcomes.
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5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
I really do believe
that the diflucan could be
killing the yeast
that can mimic lyme symtoms
and could be this is a reason for
some feeling improvements?
I have found in my own personal experience
that the yeast die off can be almost as difficult as a BB die off
take care
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
Cod, breaking this up and making it look like a normal paragraph for us neuro lymies to be able to read & comprehend.
Cod, please use the enter key often and double space each paragraph please. We just can't read stuff like you have below.
We'd like to help you, if you'll help us all out too ok? Thanks for understanding our problem.
quote:Originally posted by Greatcod:
The diflucan would certainly impact any yeast infection the patient might have.
Keep in mind, though, that using Diflucan to treat bacterial infection is based on the results physicians achieved in England, where it was used successfully to treat ABX resistance TB. ========================================
Diflucan treats yeast infection by attacking the P450 process, whatever that may be.
That metabolic process in fungi is shared by a few bacteria, including the TB and Lyme.
As far as I know, this is the first controled study of Diflucan treatment of Lyme. And the results are all positive.
People who have been sick for a long time, and have a greater bacterial load, will certainly require longer treatment periods . A common sense thing, but usually overlooked in ancedotal reports of treatment outcomes.
FYI, I have been on diflucan since March 05; I don't see any diffence on anything. So I was interested in reading what the above post said.
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alexander
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posted
question:
do you just take diflucan or combine it with abx?
i'm a bit afraid to rely on it alone.
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luvs2ride
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Member # 8090
posted
When I took Diflucan in January it was for a yeast problem. My joint pain increased 1000% to a level I could not tolerate, not even with pain killers. It felt like electrodes were attached to my joints and the juice was on.
I began a candida diet which was very helpful to my joints, though not the cure. Two weeks ago, my blood was tested and found white and black yeast which means I am systemic.
I believe, for me, the Diflucan was killing the yeast in my blood and the die off was caught in my joints.
I begin 4 weekly IVs to try to kill the yeast, (they say black yeast is very hard to kill) and I am hoping when we kill the yeast, the joint pain will go away. I have taken Diflucan in the past without problem.
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
Alexander,
"do you just take diflucan or combine it with abx? i'm a bit afraid to rely on it alone. "
For me, I've been on pulsed abx since 8-04:
3 days of doxy then 2 days off; 3 days on biaxin xl then q days off; then start doxy again. Been on diflucan daily since 3-05...
Jellybelly
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7142
posted
I have tried Diflucan two times and the herx is severe enough that I am afraid to drive. Is it the Lyme or the yeast that it is working on?
These are my thoughts and my LLMDs. I was put on Nizoral for yeast about 2 years ago. The ONLY thing I noticed was improvement. I had a lot of brain fog clear up. LLMD, thought, great lets treat you for yeast some more, only he put me on Diflucan instead of the Nizoral. All heck broke loose. Tried decreasing the dose down to a quarter tab every other day, still herx is just not tolerable. The effects on the brain were quite amazing.
So IF Diflucan is only working on the yeast then why doesn't the Nizoral do the same thing? Similar thing does happen to my daughter on Diflucan. She has some very obvious yeast symptoms, bloating stomach, and cheese on her tongue. BUT when switched to Lamisil for the yeast the herx is minor, both for yeast, but totally different reaction.
Posts: 1251 | From california | Registered: Apr 2005
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cantgiveupyet
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Member # 8165
posted
jellbelly- i herxed on the vfend i am on now for yeast. I felt like i was loosin my mind the 3rd day into it...i was hearing things etc...and just felt horrible.
I have herxed on diflucan too but it was milder i believe since i was on a lower dose.
The both use the same enzyme in our bodies.
the difference i am noticiing however is that im not feeling as good as i did with the diflucan so maybe once you treat with one antifungal you dont get the same results.
i really dont know...im just throwing somethings out there.
-------------------- "Say it straight simple and with a smile."
"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet, But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."
-Schopenhauer
pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg Posts: 3156 | From Lyme limbo | Registered: Oct 2005
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Greatcod
Unregistered
posted
The Diflucan has impacted the symptoms that I had
(CIFDS-Profound Fatigue, Fibro all over, Airhead)
for years before I was diagnosed with Lyme, and
treated with ABX.
It did clear up some ugly toenail fungus, so I
know it was in part attacking fungus. But the
other symptoms existed before I was treated with
ABX. It attacks both fungi and certain bacteria,
all of which share a specific metabolical process.
Anyone who wants to try it ought to read the
literature to decide upon the regimin.
Diflucan is now available in a generic. I believe
it may offer an effective low cost oral treatment
especially useful to those like myself who were
sick for years, carry a heavy bacterial load,
and who are still somewhat debilitated. And there
is now a study publised in the medical literature
that supports its use for Lyme.
I think that dismissing Diflucan as impacting
only fungus infection misses the point.
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GiGi
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Member # 259
posted
If you have taken Diflucan/Fluconazole and feel worse, know that yeast annd fungi also hold heavy metals in their cell walls, and when you have a die-off, your symptoms could very well be associated with metals that are entering into circulation in the body. That can feel absolutely horrible.
I have learned that if we take anything that causes a die-off of bacteria, parasites, fungi, etc., the metals are also on the loose. Any of Dr. K.'s patients has therefore very distinct instructions to have some or more of the mop-up agents in the system/body, so that the metals can find their way out instead of being reabsorbed and settling elsewhere.
I know people do not want to hear that and do not take heavy metals seriously. But let me assure you that if you have lived on this planet any length of time and eaten the food, drank the water, and live in certain environments, you have metals in your system. They are usually an underlying problem that makes Lyme so difficult to bring under control.
Looking out for heavy metals was always my first motto - and it served me well. I am rid of this disease. But you will have to take a broader approach. Neurotoxins are usually not limited to one or two, but probably several of them. Some of them do need a different approach if you ever want to get out of this.
You might want to pay attention to heavy metals, viral infections, and parasites. They are part and parcel of Lyme Disease. I can name you hundreds of Lymies that will agree with this. All under Dr. K's care.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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lymeHerx001
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Member # 6215
posted
I took some diflucan yesturday and 1 hour later took my biaxin XL.
I did notice that 6 hours,, YES SIX HOURS after I took the biaxin I started to get the horrible metal taste in my mouth and nautia and lightheadedness.
I know that these symptoms, side effects are from the biaxin, but I never experienced them to the degree that I did on the XL, only the immediate release.
The only other time I got THIS nautious from the biaxin was when I first started taking it and when I took it with plaquenil,
I looked up diflucan, on one site it says there are no interactions with BIAXIN on another site it says that it interfereces with the Cytochrome p450 enzymatic pathway so that it increases the elimination time of the BIAXIN.
I know this is what happened. Just thought id share.
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
There are different types of yeast and they respond to different types of antifungals.
Some may respond more to diflucan, others to garlic, or grapeseed extract etc.
I have definitely herxed on diflucan. It also cleared up my sinuses.
Posts: 925 | From California | Registered: Sep 2004
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lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
Yo Anyone...
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Isn't this regimen of diflucan supposed to be followed up with IM penicillin?
I seem to remember this german doc using this protocol...
I read it here I believe......zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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