posted
Despite the repeated assertions that it cannot possibly work by one member of this board, based on an immense intellect that precludes the need to test the assertions experimentally, it seems to work very well.
If I had known how well, I would have checked it out much sooner. I can't say though that this would apply to all the various gizmos being marketed as 'Rife Machines'.
In reality a real 'Rife Machine' cannot be found among the available choices. All are fundamentally different from what we know of Rife's machines in the 1930's. Everyone thought they could 'improve it' including Rife himself.
The Rife/Bare device that can be built is probably the closest, but it still has alot of differences. I have not used one of those so cannot tell you how well it works for this.
Stricter FCC regulations drove other 'improvements'. Rife's 1934 machine was a radio interference monster by his account. It would need to be used in a shielded area today, and that would be an economic obstacle for anyone trying to market it.
The frequencies he documented using are not the audio ones of so-called Rife machines today. According to historical accounts, it had a carrier wave in the Diathermy range, which at that time was 13mhz to 42mhz.
A very early antique Shortwave Diathermy machine from about 1930 that I restored incidentally operates very close to today's assigned 27.12mhz. (It is just a display piece, but it does work and probably could put out 300 watts.)
The 'treatment frequencies' Rife used were for the most part themselves radio frequencies, many right in the middle of the AM broadcast band. This presented a problem back then in the Golden Days of Radio. Probably even more so that it would today.
It is unclear just where the audio frequencies came from, but it appears they were a later shortcut to avoid FCC problems that the original Rife design presented. The later designs appeared to do at least some good, but nothing like the original design.
Rather than using my knowledge of electronics to make strong assertions to support an opinion, I have been using it to build circuits with very large, vintage RF components. More practical good comes from testing theories than debating them.
What I can tell you so far just from running tests with the early prototype, it appears to work. I don't think it works for any of the reasons people assume it does, but it works.
By working I mean that it makes symptoms go away. Joint and muscle pain in particular seem to respond to it. Curiously, I have not noticed the severe herxheimers that others speak of with this setup, and antibiotics do not seem to interfere at all.
Sometimes it pays to check something out for yourself, rather than taking the word of someone else who may have a motive.
James
[ 09. June 2006, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: James H ]
Posts: 714 | From San Antonio TX | Registered: Oct 2004
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
I have a rife machine but prefer the KMT24 microcurrent device from Dr. K. It is in my opinion a much better option and more convenient to use.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Regarding the theory that RF cannot effectively penetrate a human body because of skin effect, I suggest doing a little research on Diathermy.
The modern form of Shortwave Diathermy was invented in 1929, and still continues to work despite the aparent violation of a presumed law of physics.
Shortwave diathermy machines are found in chiropractor's offices and other places where physical therapy is done.
They work by sending enough RF energy through an area of the body to gently heat deep tissues of inflamed or infected joints and muscular tissue. (Sounds a little like our Lyme symptoms.)
The healing and pain relieving effect has generally been attributed to increased blood flow and stimilution of the immune system's macrophages to activate. The effect is attributed to the heat according to mainstream sources.
Skin effect may be an issue with direct contact devices that directly apply an electric current at a radio frequency. In radio use it occurs in the context of sending electricity through a wire at RF frequencies, such as inductors, transmission lines, and antennas. Once the energy is radiated out as radio waves it is not a factor.
We can learn something from the diathermy people, as their technology had been working for the last 75 years and has been studied extensively.
Diathermy machines use either inductors or what are called 'condenser pads'. The condenser pads look like contact devices, but they are in fact well insulated. Instead, the patient is in the dielectric space of a capacitor.
A very high tension RF electrical POTENTIAL is placed across the patient, but there is no direct connection to allow a current to flow in the usual sense.
Usually they have a fixed carrier of 27.12mhz that is modulated by the 60 or 120hz power, as they do not bother to filter the power supply. Some older ones do not even rectify it.
The patient in this case becomes the load and absorbs enough energy to produce noticeable heat. The objective is pleasant, gentle, deep heat. Used carelessly someone could probably hurt themselves with one too, as they are capable of alot of power.
Some modern diathermy machines put out higher level pulses of 27.12mhz RF energy, with the pulse rate being adjustable. This pulsed energy tends to not increase the temperature much in the treated area, but it still has the healing and inflamation reducing effects. (Not the heat alone after all?)
This sounds a little like the description of a Rife Machine, but the mainstream medical equipment manufacturers would not be stupid enough to call them such in this environment.
If you have alot of pain and know a chiropractor who has one, you might even ask him about trying it sometime.
[ 09. June 2006, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: James H ]
Posts: 714 | From San Antonio TX | Registered: Oct 2004
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I think I know the Reader's Digest you are talking about. Was it the one about the radio station owner that was diagnosed with Leukemia of some sort, and was pondering how radio waves could somehow be used to burn away cancer cells?
That was a little different approach, and exactly subtle. Still it illustrates how various forms of radiotherapy are finding their way into mainstream medicine... Now that the generation that fought and destroyed men like Royal Rife have died off.
It may have to wait for another generation to die off before we can just walk into any clinic and get treated for tickborn diseases. They certainly want their heads to stay firmly planted in the sand today.
Those heads that won't stay planted in the sand shall be made to roll.
[ 09. June 2006, 11:54 PM: Message edited by: James H ]
Posts: 714 | From San Antonio TX | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
In my case and opinion, yes it works, along with other treatments .
Search and read, there are plenty of reports out there to help you make an informed decision.
Henson,
If you can't find someone to let you try their machine, then find out the return policy for a particular machine and if it's good, buy it. If you think it's not for you then return it. It would only cost you shipping and handling.
That was the main reason I went with the emem3d from www.rifelabs.com. At the time I bought mine, he had a 60 day full money back return policy. Now you couldn't pay me to send it back.
All My Best, Scott
-------------------- BTW - I am NOT a medical professional - just speaking from MY own personal experience. Posts: 266 | From Philadelphia | Registered: May 2005
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Wow! I was treated with a Diathermy back in the 50's and 60's! Our family physician used it on us for sinus infections and any other pain issues. It felt good and I would suspect it accelerated the healing process.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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It really isn't that different from the ones you remember from many years ago. They still work and they still use them.
Back when diathermy was used more, it was considered a way to cure the problem instead of just making it feel better for awhile. They were used alot before it was figured out that prescribing pain pills was easier and more profitable.
I am thinking that some of us with alot of pain might benefit from just plain old diathermy. It doesn't seem to have occurred to anyone with Lyme to use diathermy for their joint and muscle pain. You can search all the message boards you can find, and you will find nary a mention of it.
Diathermy is not controversial for treating inflamatory conditions like we have. If it worked for someone I suspect a one could be rented or purchased to be used at home. (Just speculating.)
The used one in the picture I linked is I think a top of the line machine, and is not really that expensive as medical things go.
It might be something to ask the LLMD about, or your chiropractor if you have one.
Posts: 714 | From San Antonio TX | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
By the way, I am not suggesting anyone stop their antibiotics to use the latest gizmo for sale with the name 'Rife' attached to it.
We have been doing microscope experiments and noting the effects on ourselves from the RF fields we are creating. I just wanted to tell everyone that there seems to be something to this, so don't throw the baby out with the snake oil salesmen.
We are targeting the cell wall deficient forms instead of spirochetes, and by doing this I think antibiotics are helpful, used at the same time.
Posts: 714 | From San Antonio TX | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
James, I have also built a lot of these so called "Rife" machines. Most of them are not very effective. The electromagnetic devices seem to be the best IMO. My web site is at http://home.rochester.rr.com/bkdavis/Posts: 499 | From Western NY | Registered: Dec 2000
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What you were doing with that 812a has some resemblance to what I am doing. In fact I am using a pair of 812a's push pull with about 2kv on the plates.
If it hasn't given the results you had hoped for I can tell you what the problems are and some ways to solve them, as the circuits are not that different.
Modulating a vacuum tube in a circuit like that with transistors is not as easy as it would seem. Transistors are current amplifying devices, and as you know it is voltage on s control grid that controls a vacuum tube.
If you could measure it without frying any test instruments, you would find about -200 volts DC on that grid. plus it is very hot with RF. You can create the voltage across a resistor, but coming up with 100v or 200v to drive the 812's grid is not easy in itself.
Then, you have the complication that the single grid is your RF oscillator too and it is already hot with the carrier RF... possibly several hundred volts peak to peak.
It can be done though. My prototype is being modulated at the grids using the audio side of a very old vacuum tube signal generator that puts out about 75v rms up to 200khz. It will modulate nearly 100% up to about 90khz. Above that the modulation effectiveness falls off very rapidly.
This wasn't the intended target, but it is working for us and relieving symptoms even like that.
It is a little touchy trying to modulate the same grid that is acting as your oscillator, as the modulating voltage tends to stop your oscillator. When that happens you will have a red hot tube in a matter of seconds and a burned up one if you don't notice it soon enough.
I have to leave to go to a mandatory party right now, but I would like to discuss this more later.
Regards, James
Posts: 714 | From San Antonio TX | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
The RF on the grid was filtered via a couple of RF chokes. However it did have a tendency to cause problems with the solid state driver. It would sometimes overload and shut off.
The whole thing worked because any TV in the house when operated on an antenna had black bars going across the screen. I guess the RF had lots of harmonics to 100 MC or more.
Posts: 499 | From Western NY | Registered: Dec 2000
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posted
I think alot of people have probably gotten to that same point. They wire a vintage transmitting tube and a few other components to a transformer that puts out lethal voltages and then connect the output to some kind of gas plasma tube, and presto! If the tube lights, we have a working Rife machine... well, sort of.
Even though it readily burns up resistors, messes up the neighbor's TV, and emits pretty lights from the plasma tube, the hoped for effects are elusive. Some very important subtlties are generally overlooked.
By the way, electrolytic capacitors in the high voltage supply make for very impressive explosions if high level RF feeds back through them. They send flaming pieces of oily paper, melting plastic, and aluminum foil across the room with enough force to hurt someone.
There needs to be a suitably rated RF choke between the HV supply and where it connects to the tank coil.
If you happen to be working in a spare bedroom instead of a garage or basement, the fiery debris from the exploding capacitors can catch your carpet on fire too. (Don't ask me how I know this.)
What is missing is a delivery system. The plasma tube lights, and there is some stray radiation as evidenced by the TV, but the intended recipient is not coupled to the circuit. Instead it is just making resistors get hot... it is being absorbed by a dummy load.
That is why I took to reverse engineering 50 and 60 year old diathermy machines. Their makers had decades ago worked out the problems of matching the output to the impedence of a human body, and coupling it into the circuit safely and efficiently.
Let me emphasize the word "safely" again... You don't want the only thing between your body and a 'Green Mile Experience' to be an underrated capacitor salvaged from an old radio. You want failsafe on at least 2 levels. 2 or 3 kilovolts from a 30 pound line transformer can be quite lethal.
Of course once you get past that all you have is a low powered diathermy device. You still need to modulate it with an effective treatment frequency, and as you have seen that is more difficult than it looks.
I think that is the reason the electromagnet devices like the Doug Coil work better for most people. They are crude and simple. What they lack in efficient design and correct treatment frequencies they can make up for with sheer brute force.
Not very many people would get as far as your little 812a creation pictured on your website, and far fewer would continue on to get it to do something more useful than making smoke and a pretty light.
James
Posts: 714 | From San Antonio TX | Registered: Oct 2004
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