luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
From the beginning, I have not been able to do epsom salt baths as it causes incredible pain about 20 mins later which last for days.
Recently I have had very little pain, almost normal (RA is my only symptom)
Friday night, my joints in my hands were just a little achy. I thought surely I could now do epsom salts. So I soaked only my hands for about 10 mins.
I awoke Sat morning with increased pain and swelling in my hands and also in my ankles and jaw. Pain in my ear. Stiff neck with swollen glands.
I had a big day ahead of me so I broke down and took Advil. (Since getting leaky gut, I avoid NSAIDS as much as possible.)Got through my day.
Sunday morning I was hurting too bad to go to church. No doubt, I overdid the day before. I could barely walk. I just couldn't believe the salts had done this to me. I read every post I could find here about epsom salts and found where others had increased pain from the salts too. While alot of theories were given, no one seemed to have any solid answers.
I went back through my bloodtests (4 in all) and saw that my magnesium levels were always on the low normal side so I don't think I'm getting too much mag.
The theory that the salt is killing ketes in the skin may be true, but not that the ketes start moving around and get zapped by abx, because I'm only doing a very low dose minocycline protocol (300mg per week) which I believe is too low for killing borellia.
Anyway, I got angry about it and decided to take a bath in the salts in my whirlpool tub. Yeah, I know, what sense did that make? It felt great while I was in there, but the rest of the day was spent in bed and I could barely stand on my feet.
Monday morning I am only barely better.
Does anyone have any solid information about what the salts are doing?
I have heavy metal toxicity which a doctor is preparing me for chelation but all is going very slow because my liver and kidneys are flat and he has been building those up.
I'm wondering if the salts don't pull the metal toxins through the body which then causes me this great pain. The doctor has told me more than once that if he were to chelate me too soon, I would not be able to stand the pain of it.
Any ideas?
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
One thing I know for sure is that Mag (That is what Epsom Salts are - Mag sulfate) does not kill keets. They need mag. That's why mag is depleted in lymies, because Bart and lyme take it from us.
But there are Dr's who believe that mag and calcium should be avoided because it strengthens these bugs. I think that you should stay away form the Epsom salts and see if that doesn't solve your problem. Could be that your body is trying to tell you something.
-------------------- You're only a failure when you stop trying. Posts: 945 | From U.S | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
When I first read what you wrote, I thought of an allergic reaction to Epsom salts. I have done epsom salt baths and never had those type of reactions.
I agree with Micul, I would stay away from them if I got that kind of a reaction.
There are other things you can do to detox. -- Take antioxidents, infarred saunas, Chlorella, Dandelion tea, Milk thistle(great for liver), Slippery Elm tea, and lots of water with lemon!
Here is also thread on Epsom salt baths you might find interesting.
posted
without enough Mg+ our immune systems don't work well. Lyme drains the Mg+ reserves from the body. When one takes an epsom salt bath, one is adding Mg+ to the body, therefore activates immune system, more die-off =herx.
regarding not taking much for abx, to me, 300 mg of mino would be a death sentence. it took me 6 months to get up to 100 mg and then another 3 to get up to 200mg, and still had to take breaks for rough herxing.
I like you found that until I had my nutritional levels of Mg+ restored, I would herx horribly after an epsom salt bath. I had to add Mg+ to my diet slowly, 200 mg every other day to start, because it was waking up my immune system, and I was herxing.
You may want to talk to your dr abt nutritional support for raising your Mg+ levels.
Hope you are feeling better soon.
Posts: 663 | From NH USA | Registered: Sep 2004
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
"Magnesium deficiency in lyme disease"...abstract from a Romanian Cancer hospital. The % drop at the outset is astounding!
Yes...our body was/is telling us something...THIS is the nutrient we need to fight...we simply can't let it drop too low (Mg-ATP) is needed by our brains to think, for our heart to be able to relax (contract = calcium)...
We didn't have enough to "spare" to fight this very toxic pathogen.
I suppose you could say, since the antioxidants vitamin A and E drop also, we should not supplement those either. (Gotta be careful with vitamin A !).
The reason WHY vitamin E drops is to protect the cells from damaging ethanol which is one of the harmful end products of sugar fermentation. This ethanol is doing a "number" on the pancreas, liver and brain.
The reason WHY vitamin A drops is because it "downregulates" TNF alpha which would harm the very sensitive eyes. The proteins can upregulate or downregulate one another, depending on the current situation.
It is believed TNF alpha can cure lyme. Ouch. Too much is harmful. But...it does have MANY benefits! MANY. I have listed and linked them in my Updated Nutshell post. TNF alpha lowers cholesterol. However...it can lead to insulin resistance...The body is "telling us"...the most important thing is... get cholesterol down.
Our brain cells and our white blood cells need glycogen. It's stored in fat. We have to avoid insulin SPIKES. We NEED carbohydrates, protein, fats...in balance. What we don't need is a lot of insulin spikes. Eating complex carbs does NOT cause an acidic insulin spike.
"Magnesium for autoimmune"...U.S. patent Dr. Valletta also from a cancer hospital...in Italy.
Mg INactivates HMG CoA reductase which puts the brakes on the cholesterol formation in the liver (so do statin/arbs drugs). We KNOW Bb follows the cholesterol pathway. It's outer cell wall IS cholesterol (and zinc). It does not have a LPS layer as ALL other pathogens do. It is UNIQUE!
Mg INactivates PFK...phosphofructokinase. This is the rate limiting enzyme for glycolysis. Bb, as do all spirochetes, ferments sugar. It wants, needs fructose. Bb, we KNOW...from genetic researh, is "PFK dependent".
Mg (along with Ca) is needed to form HEALTHY antibodies. Many are damaged when Mg levels drop too far. We KNOW (Pubmed) that the antibody to lyme is damaged (fab portion...up at the top). Restoring Mg restores the health of the antibodies. They have to be a perfect "fit".
Mg is needed to make ALL proteins...enzymes, hormones are proteins too.
Mg is needed for us to make serotonin which converts to melatonin to help us FALL asleep..NREM sleep...which MUST PRECEDE REM (healing sleep) which is when acetylcholine kicks in. Melatonin - acetylcholine - melatonin - acetylcholine...sleep = NREM, then REM, NREM, then REM.
About melatonin. It is believed this works by supplying an indole...an alkaloid!
Mg is capable of stimulating DNA REPAIR.
Mg (in high amts.) can displace (not dissolve) zinc.
Mg is NOT something Bb wants! Quite the contrary.
Bb is happy as a clam in an acidic environment. The "active" part in melatonin looks to be an indole...an alkaloid.
This is all about pH. This pathogen causes the body to be way too acidic (toxic).
We are supposed to be slightly alkaline with our blood pH at 7.4. Acids, too many, are very damaging to our cells.
Cancer ONLY happens in an ongoing acidic environment.
We are most acidic at death.
Once again...This is a completely UNIQUE pathogen. MOST pathogens (other than mycoplasm) have a LPS outer cell wall/membrane.
Bb is UNIQUE. We have to approach it differently.
Leaky gut and on abx? Whoa. How many probiotics do you take? Good ones (the most "billion") in a gelatin capsule and refrigerated? One hour before a meal with a full glass of water?
Healing...all healing...starts in the gut. The gut HAS to be healthy in order to absorb and MAKE nutrients for us...this is what the "good guys" do...they make B vitamins for us.
That is step one. Get your gut healthy.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
Well, thanks guys. I'm as confused as ever.
Marnie, I really like your posts. You seem very knowledgeable. I'm not sure I understand everything you have posted here. I am under treatment for LGS and think I have the gut resolved but still have lots of bad "stuff" to clean out of my bloodstream. I am under a doctor's care for that.
Lisi, I've never had a problem using Epsom Salts before this, but with this disease, all things prior just don't seem to apply anymore.
Staying away from the salts is pretty much what I want to do too, I just wish I could understand the extreme reaction. It is too painful and makes me non-functioning for too long to keep doing it.
Could my immune system really fire up that well from just soaking in magnesium?
Achey,
The 300mg of mino is weekly not daily. That is considered too low dose to be effective against lyme. It is a rheumatoid protocol for mycoplasmas.
Thanks for the links. I will read them asap. I'm at work and trying to respond between phone calls.
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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lymemomtooo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5396
posted
Luvs, I have been told by one of the sages that if you are Mg deficient and apply liquid Mg to your skin it will burn you..If you have enough there will not be a reaction. I have not tried this but you could do a test..And again, I do not know if this is always accurate..Certaily not scientific.
From everything I have heard and read, all lymies have trouble keeping the minerals in balance.Lyme depletes them..
Perhaps you could try a Mg supplement to see if you can do better with it that way..
I also have heard that Mg does have some anti- biotic properties..I have also been told that epson salts should be combined with baking soda..A 4 lb to 1 lb ratio.
I am no expert so only relaying some info that I have been told.
Posts: 2360 | From SE PA | Registered: Mar 2004
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Nal
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6801
posted
Hello.
I too notice an increase in symptoms when taking epsom salt baths. However a couple days later, I usually notice a decrease in symptoms again-does that make sense.
I have a post on here somewhere where I asked about magnesium causing a herx. Check it out if you can.
You could try to journal for several days AFTER you take an epsom salt bath. Write down every symptom you have since taking one and then also write down any symptoms that improve or disappear ( even if it is only for a day or so).
Nancy
-------------------- Life is 10% what happens to you, 90% how you respond to it!
-Chuck Swindoll Posts: 1594 | From Colorado | Registered: Jan 2005
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