Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
thanks carol B. so is mag malate the same as aspartate?
I really am trying to understand this...it just isn't registering...and I cant find any other info.
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trueblue
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posted
I'm sure aspartate and maleate are different. Somewhere I saw a post with all the forms of magnesium listed, I can't find it now. Sorry it vanished. (The search function here is all but useless; It was better when it didn't work at all.)
Melanie, I stumbled upon this thread... Scroll down to Marnie's post near the end of the thread. Give her a shout and see if she can help. It seems she's saying aspartate is a bad form.
edited to add: it might just be easier to contact the Dr's office and see what brand he's suggesting and then just google that.
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Marnie
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posted
Be glad you didn't find it.
This is a BAD FORM of Mg! Mg aspartate. (Melanie...Mg malate is Mg + malic acid.) Malic acid chelates - removes - aluminum.
You already have a glutamate problem. Too much glutamate.
Mg and Zinc are supposed to block the glutamate receptors (NMDA).
Those 2 nutrients are low -> excess glutamate.
Brain is "rapid firing"...this is what happens to kids with ADHD.
"When glutamate OR aspartate attaches to the NMDA receptor, it triggers a flow of sodium (Na) and calcium (Ca) ions into the neuron, and an outflow of potassium (K), firing the neuron."
This IS the most "absorbable" form, that is why he chose it...and it looks to be good...it isn't. I asked George Eby about this years ago..and I've been searching my files for the absolute link...I have zillions of Mg files and can't find it fast, but did find the above.
NOW (brand) makes a 200mg tablet of Mg citrate. You can cut them in half (pill cutter) and space them out...along WITH B vitamins please...smallest doses you can find of a complex. All the B vitamins work together and also work WITH Mg.
For starters...
[ 25. July 2006, 01:03 PM: Message edited by: Marnie ]
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Also, what your Dr may have been Rx ing is for mag asporotate, it's different than aspartate. What works the best to is to get mag via IV or IM. The IM shots need lydocaine mixed with the mag to lessen the bite. The injectables work the best, and are really cheap. They are just harder to do because of the needle thing.
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Jill E.
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posted
My LLMD recommended Magnesium Asporotate. I found the Solaray brand that says Magnesium Asporotate on the front label, then in the ingredients describes it as a mix of aspartate, citrate, orotate and oxide).
I take it sometimes, also bought the Mag-Tab SR that Dr. B's guidelines recommend and take that sometimes, also used to use Magnesium Citrate.
I am totally confused about this.
Marnie, it sounds like the Magnesium Citrate is the preferred?
I don't have someone locally who can provide IV Magnesium although I'll keep searching.
Thanks, Jill
-------------------- If laughter is the best medicine, why hasn't stand-up comedy cured me? Posts: 1773 | From San Diego | Registered: Apr 2006
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I am taking several kinds of magnesium just for covering all the bases: malate, chelate, and magtab sr. Not saying there aren't other good ones.
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Jill E.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9121
posted
Marnie,
It sounds like you recommend avoiding malic acid. I do not take malic acid supplements now that I have Lyme, but that was part of the protocol back when I had CFS for reducing muscle pain/fibromyalgia.
Do you think malic acid is really a problem with Lyme? I had been tempted to try it for Lyme muscle pain but will avoid it if it in any way adds to the glutamate issue.
Thanks, Jill
-------------------- If laughter is the best medicine, why hasn't stand-up comedy cured me? Posts: 1773 | From San Diego | Registered: Apr 2006
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
Magnesium Citrate Solution Active Ingredients: Magnesium Citrate Solution
What is magnesium citrate oral solution? What should my health care professional know before I receive magnesium citrate? How should this medicine be used? What if I miss a dose? What drug(s) may interact with magnesium citrate? What side effects may I notice from receiving magnesium citrate? What should I watch for while taking magnesium citrate? Where can I keep my medicine?
What is magnesium citrate oral solution? (Back to top) MAGNESIUM CITRATE (Evac-Q-Mag, Citro-Nesia, Citroma) is as a saline laxative. This medicine is commonly used to empty and prepare the colon (bowel) for rectal or colon exams (diagnostic tests) or surgery. This drug may be used to treat occasional constipation, but it should not be used regularly for this purpose. Generic magnesium citrate oral solution is available.
What should my health care professional know before I receive magnesium citrate? (Back to top) They need to know if you have any of these conditions: *colostomy or ileostomy *diabetes *diarrhea or severe constipation *heart disease *kidney disease *stomach or intestine problems, such as stomach pain, diverticulitis, a stomach obstruction, bleeding or vomiting *an unusual reaction to magnesium citrate, other magnesium products, other medicines, foods, dyes, or preservatives *pregnant or trying to get pregnant *breast-feeding
How should this medicine be used? Take magnesium citrate solution by mouth. Follow the directions on the prescription label. Magnesium citrate may taste better if it is chilled before you drink it. Magnesium citrate should be taken with plenty of additional water or other approved fluids. It usually takes only 30 minutes to 2 hours for magnesium citrate to work, so do not take it late in the day or at bedtime unless your health care provider has instructed otherwise.
If your are using this medicine prior to an exam or surgery, follow all instructions of your health care provider regarding your preparation for the exam or surgery. Do not mix the magnesium citrate solution with other fluids unless your health care provider agrees, as you may have to follow dietary restrictions.
Do not use magnesium citrate on a regular basis as a laxative; if your constipation is a continuing problem, contact your health care provider.
Contact your pediatrician or health care professional regarding the use of this medicine in children. Special care may be needed.
What if I miss a dose? If you miss your dose, and you were to take this medication at a certain time prior to a procedure or doctor appointment, check with your health care provider for directions. You still may be able to take your dose, or you may have to reschedule your appointment and take the magnesium citrate at another time.
If you are using magnesium citrate short-term as a laxative, skip the dose you missed and take only the next regularly scheduled dose. Do not take extra or double doses.
What drug(s) may interact with magnesium citrate? *antacids, laxatives or dietary supplements that contain magnesium (examples: Milk of Magnesia and many antacids) *cellulose sodium phosphate *certain heart medications, such as digoxin *edetate disodium, EDTA *etidronate *quinolone antibiotics (examples: ciprofloxacin, gatifloxacin, levofloxacin, and others) *sodium polystyrene sulfonate *tetracycline antibiotics (examples: doxycycline, minocycline, tetracycline) *water pills (diuretics, especially potassium-sparing diuretics such as triamterene or amiloride)
Tell your prescriber or health care professional about all other medicines you are taking, including non-prescription medicines, nutritional supplements, or herbal products. Also tell your prescriber or health care professional if you are a frequent user of drinks with caffeine or alcohol, if you smoke, or if you use illegal drugs. These may affect the way your medicine works. Check with your health care professional before stopping or starting any of your medicines.
What side effects may I notice from receiving magnesium citrate? Side effects that you should report to your prescriber or health care professional as soon as possible: *dehydration *dizziness, redness or flushing of your face, shortness of breath, excessive sweating, chest pain or heart palpitations *extreme drowsiness *muscle weakness *severe nausea or vomiting
Side effects that usually do not require medical attention (report to your prescriber or health care professional if they continue or are bothersome): *diarrhea *mild nausea
What should I watch for while taking magnesium citrate? Be sure to take this medicine exactly as directed by your health care provider. If you have questions on how to use your medication, ask for directions from your pharmacist or physician.
Magnesium citrate can taste very bitter. If you chill the solution before you drink it, it may taste better to you. You may add lemon, orange or other citrus juices to the solution to help hide the bitter taste, if your health care professional agrees. Check with your health care provider for approval, as there may be dietary restrictions prior to your procedure or surgery. Be sure to drink 1--2 full glasses of water with each magnesium citrate dose to help prevent dehydration.
Your health care provider may need to monitor your kidney function. Be sure to tell your health care professional if you have any kidney problems.
Where can I keep my medicine? Keep out of the reach of children in a container that small children cannot open.
Store at room temperature between 8--30 degrees C (46--86 degrees F). Dispose of any unused product within 24 hours of opening the bottle.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
Because citrates convert to bicarbonates...or so I've read...that makes Mg citrate to me...very important. I think in lyme...the body is trying to get bicarbonates released/available.
Not only do indoles (H=N) part of melatonin trigger release of bicarbonates from the intestines, but I just read where angiotensin does too.
Mg down, Ca up, TNF alpha up, angiotensin up...the body is trying to find a way...
However, if we could find a Mg formula that contained Mg malate, Mg citrate...perhaps best?
Re: Asporotate
"Solaray and is called Magnesium Asporotate(TM), from the back of the label comes the following;
It looks like any formula that contains aspartate - ? aspartic acid - might be "troublesome".
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sizzled
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1357
posted
Okay...
Melanie asked WHERE can she get this Magnesium asporotate.
I don't know.
I take the Magnesium malate with malic acid from Source Naturals at the recommended dose and have noticed my lifelong leg and foot cramps (as well as finger and other parts of my body)have more or less, disappeared.
I do not know where she can get the Magnesium asporotate if she can't find it in her health food store.
(MagTab SR did nothing for me and the citrate just acted as a laxative).
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trueblue
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posted
Good Work Sizzled! Bonus points for understanding the question, the spelling and answering it.
-------------------- more light, more love more truth and more innovation Posts: 3783 | From somewhere other than here | Registered: May 2005
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robi
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Member # 5547
posted
quote:Originally posted by Marnie:
Re: Asporotate
"Solaray and is called Magnesium Asporotate(TM), from the back of the label comes the following;
It looks like any formula that contains aspartate - ? aspartic acid - might be "troublesome".
That is the same one (Solar Ray) Marnie was talking about here.
robi
-------------------- Now, since I put reality on the back burner, my days are jam-packed and fun-filled. ..........lily tomlin as 'trudy' Posts: 2503 | From here | Registered: Apr 2004
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sizzled
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1357
posted
Thanks for the acknowledgement,trueblue...I tend to get hormonely grouchy lately...I tend to come on a bit STRONG.
Yes, robi, I reread the posts and discovered Marnie had explained this...
I am just trying to answer Melanie's post as simply and plainly as possible.
I understand we are all worried about her.
Am trying to support her if she wants to follow her doc's advice and not have to have her explain what she has already done to try and 'cure' her painful cramping.
Lord knows how painful this can be and cause one to lose valuable sleep.
My prayers are with you, Mel.
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Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Goodness, you eash are so woderful to help, and I so appreciate you! More than you could even imagine.
I still am unsure of which mag my doc suggested, but when I find out...i really feel it is important to trust in his judgement untill proven otherwise. I know you understand.
I dont have it in me right now to do the research, or to comprehend the research.
I asked my pharmicist oday to put a call in for an explanation, and wasnt able to get back tonight...
but hopefully, by morning, it will all be sorted out.
I did go late last night to buy sme pedio;lyte and gatorade, and have been drinking that all day, have stopped all meds, and am trying to sippliment with a little slowmag too.
I think thos ehave helped a bit.
I also got some strong narcotics to help with sleep, so I am praying that I can make it through the night tonight without pain...im just so tired.
anyway...thanks again so much to each of you! M
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Jill E.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9121
posted
Hi again, Melanie,
I hope you will feel better soon.
If it turns out to be the Magnesium Asporotate - the same kind my LLMD recommended - I found the Solaray brand at my local health food store. But even though it sames Asporotate on the front of the label, it's actually a blend of types.
Take care, Jill
-------------------- If laughter is the best medicine, why hasn't stand-up comedy cured me? Posts: 1773 | From San Diego | Registered: Apr 2006
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minoucat
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Member # 5175
posted
Boy, Melanie, I've been on another insomnia jag and it's MISERABLE. Doubly awful when you have a major workload, as you do. Hope you have a couple of great nights' sleep and feel much, much better.
GatorAde tends to have quite a bit of sugar/sweetener. I favor Emergen-C, which has balanced elecrolytes as well as a load of vitamin C, and there are some sugar- (and sweetener-) free flavors. And it's fizzy, which I like. But if your stomach is in a delicate condition, the Vitamin C might be too much.
I use Natural Calm magnesium (citrate). It's formulated to be highly absorbable (I know I spelled that wrong but I can't figure out how to correct it! The doc had me try Trazadone for the insomnia -- huge mistake. In addition to intensifying the insomnia, it fried my brain and made me quite ill. I know it works for some people, but never again for me!)
Natural Calm is more expensive than other forms, but I figure I get my money's worth in the increased absorption. Also, I've never had side effects (diarrhea) from the Natural Calm even in larger doses. I have no idea why that is and it doesn't make sense to me, but there you are. Life is an enduring mystery.
I hope this period of rough health ends SOON for you. Much better to have rude health, don't you think?
Hugs and best of luck.
-------------------- ********************* RECIDITE, PLEBES! Gero rem imperialem! (Stand aside plebians! I am on imperial business.)
Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Miss Minoucat,
Insomnia is the pits...I have suffered with it for years only getting about 3-4 hours per night, and some nights I would just stay up.
This was so detrimental to my recovery, that my former LLMD worked with me to come up with a great little ``knock you out'' cocktail that I took at bedtime. It sure worked...allowing 5-7 hours!
I went through a recent insomnia thing again, and asked my new doc for the same meds...well, I have 2 out of three...not sure still what the hold-up is on the third one. But wanted to share it with you, just in case it might help.
I have also been drinking the Emergen-C daily. I am always parched, and at least I feel that I am drinking something good for me with this, so thank you!
Take care of you, M
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Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Thank you Jill, I guess it wasn't asporotate after all, but I do appreciate the information! And thanks for the well wishes
Thank you Mizz Sizz, You have always been so very kind and good to me, and I do appreciate your help so much!
Thank you Robi, For everything!
Thanks Bluebird, For finding information and always helping when I need you!
Thanks Marnie, I am hoping you can help me to find exactly what I need? And advise on the choices?
Thanks Tree-hugger! You are a love!
Thanks Lou, your expertise is always appreciated!
Thank you Micul, It looks as if he isn't going for the injectables with me...but it may come down to that if I can't tolerate his newest choices.
Much love to each of you, M
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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trueblue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7348
posted
quote:Originally posted by Melanie Reber: OK...so I finally pinned down the doc's office help yesterday about the magnesium mystery.
These are my choices:
aspartate oxide glycenate orotate
or a combination of any of above...but the dosage needs to be 1500mg per day in divided doses.
Soooo, can one of you smart people PLEASE help me to figure out where to get the above choices?
and how the heck am I suppose to tolerate that much when just a little keeps me at home?
When I was looking for magnesium I took my narrowed down list to the health food store and the only one on my list they had was glycinate so I bought that. Sure narrowed it down for me.
Good luck and I hope it works for you. As for how you're going to keep it in you, I have no idea, maybe some forms act differently.
Personally, I'd wait around until Marnie stops by again. *nods*
-------------------- more light, more love more truth and more innovation Posts: 3783 | From somewhere other than here | Registered: May 2005
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posted
Forms of Mg followed by percentage of magnesium as it occurs in a given form. ``---`` = magnesium
---peroxide---43.17 http://www.earthsbounty.com ---phosphate dibasic ---20.21 --- `` tribasic---27.74 ---pyrophosphate---21.84 ---salicycylate---8.14 ---sulfate---20.19 ---citrate---16.16 ---mandelate---7.44 this might be edible, even though merk index didn't say so. ---lactate---12.01 ---oxide---60.30 a whopping amount of Mg for cheap ---acetate---17.07 ---acetylsalicylate---6.35 ---benzoic acid---9.12 ---chloride---25.53 ---hydroxide---41.68
Hormonal grouchiness?? Yipes! it must be bad if you can identify it. I myself will deny it to the end, usually while jumping up and down screaming, and knawing on chocolate.
Um.. I'll catch ya next week sometime ..
[ 04. August 2006, 10:31 PM: Message edited by: Mo ]
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aklnwlf
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5960
posted
Hi there Melanie,
Sorry to hear about the insomnia. Boy can I relate to that!
Hi to Robi too! At the first Dr. J hearing in NC I was just talking about Magnesium.
Here's what I take Melanie. I take NOW brand powdered Magnesium Oxide. I take about 1 and a half teaspoons but you'll have to take you recommended dose.
I paid only 6.99 for about 300 doses so it's pretty inexpensive.
I used to get God awful calf cramps alot but those are gone now.
For Insomnia I take Melatonin 3 mg, and half an Ambien CR and my usual one pain pill and muscle relaxer.
There was a gal in NC that was talking about hypersomnia and a new drug that Dr. J was prescribing for that. I can't remember the name of the med but it's hard to come by.
If you pm me I can give you her email address. She's not a member of this board otherwise I'd post it.
I'm sorry your not feeling well. I'm having some problems with my fingertips and toes getting numb and hurting so will start a low dose of orals.
I'm seeing a naturalpath on the 22nd and see what he recommends and will post the info in medical.
Hang in there my friend and I hope and pray this helps!
-------------------- Do not take this as medical advice. This comment is based on opinion and personal experience only.
Alaska Lone Wolf Posts: 6154 | From Columbus, GA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Carol in PA
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5338
posted
These are my choices:
aspartate oxide glycenate orotate
or a combination of any of above...but the dosage needs to be 1500mg per day in divided doses.
======== Melanie, The spelling for the third one should be glycinate.
High Absorption Magnesium, Doctor's Best, 120 Tabs Contains Magnesium 100 mg per tablet (as magnesium glycinate/lysinate chelate)
SRP: $14.99 Our Price: $8.73
Sheesh, at 15 tablets per day, the bottle of 120 would last 8 days.
I think you will need to ramp up on this, and see how you do.
If you do want to order from iHerb.com, you'll get a discount at the checkout, from 4% to 10%, depending on the size of the order. Their shipping costs are reasonable.
Hope this helps. Carol
Posts: 6947 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Thank you Bluebird, PQ, Miss Maureen, Aklnwlf and Carol in PA!!!!!
I decided to go with the NOW brand.
Because it is powdered, and I can control the amount a bit more that way, and because I am already taking 20+ pills a day and really didn't want to take any more
I have never been good with mag in any form...it does NOT agree with me. So, I am hoping that by ramping up to the docs recommended dosage, I can tolerate it eventually enough to do some good.
I SOOO appreciate all of your wonderful help everyone!!!
Much love, M
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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I just ordered Schiff's Chelated Cal-Mag from my food co-op, but the catalog did not have any specifics on the concentration so I googled Schiff and found the info on the Swanson Vitamin website.
It is 130mg Calcium-glycinate and 80mg Magnesium-glycinate per tablet. The bottle is 180 tabs and listed for $6.89. It got it from my co-op that orders from Frontier (Wholesale Organic Food and Supplement supplier) for $5.85.
Dr C's website says that chelated Mg is the only form absorbed well by the body.
-------------------- God's mercies are new every morning.
Karla Posts: 85 | From KANSAS | Registered: Jul 2006
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lymeinhell
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4622
posted
It was Magnesium Aspartate. And yes, it is quite different from Malate or Citrate. If you have loose bowels, the only that won't kill your stomach and leave you in the bathroom all day is Aspartate.
I just had this conversation with my LLMD last week. I've been on Mag Aspartate with Potassium Aspartate for 2 1/2 yrs. now. My stomach was such a mess, and I was so dehydrated from the runs, there's no way in heck I could take any other form. Dr. E still insists there's no way I could take any other kind.
Both Magnesium AND potassium deficiencies will cause the foot cramps.
Mag Aspartate is easily absorbed and available in small doses.
I use Potassium Magnesium Aspartate by Pure Encapsulations. No fillers to irritate the stomach. It's 70mg magnesium and99mg potasium and 8mg vitamin c.
In the interim, try soaking your feet in baking soda - it should help restore some of your potassium.
Feel better!!
-------------------- Julie _ _ ___ _ _ lymeinhell
Blessed are those who expect nothing, for they shall not be disappointed. Posts: 2258 | From a better place than I was 11 yrs ago | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
i hope it works out for you Melanie. LEt me know. I have the strange cramping stuff going on in my feet at times too.
Posts: 89 | From AZ | Registered: Mar 2006
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Repost...
You already have a glutamate problem. Too much glutamate.
Glutamate and GABA are the "workhorses" of the brain. The first excites, the latter inhibits.
Mg and Zinc are supposed to block the glutamate receptors (NMDA). Prevent "over excitement".
Only on holidays and on birthdays is this a good idea.
If those 2 nutrients (Mg and Zn) are low -> excess glutamate.
Brain is "rapid firing"...this is what happens to kids with ADHD.
"When glutamate OR aspartate attaches to the NMDA receptor, it triggers a flow of sodium (Na) and calcium (Ca) ions into the neuron, and an outflow of potassium (K), firing the neuron."
Mg glycinate seems to be the easiest on the stomach for many. Mg citrate (convert to bicarbonate) would be MY choice.
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5dana8
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Member # 7935
posted
I also like th mag Glycinate. It does seem easier on my tummy.
But I find it also helps to take it with food. I could be wrong in suggesting this, this is only what I found out for me.
Make sure to talk over everything first with your LLMD
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Thanks for all of your help...
I ordered the powdered NOW oxide ...and am awaiting its arrival.
Citrate was NOT one of the choices given to me. And Marnie advised against aspartate. (at least I think that is what you are saying about the rapid firing thing)
So, because the glycinate info came after I put my order in...that was not chosen either. But, I will keep it in mind in the event that I can not tolerate the oxide.
Much appreciation to each of you, M
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