SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
Has anyone tried a test of doing RainTree Cat's Claw, Nutramedix Samento or BioPure Samento for six months after having CD57 meastured and then retesting at the end? It is supposed to raise CD57 and I am interested in anyone that has tried to validate this.
Thanks
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Sorry, I have tried Samento and have taken Samento for extended periods of time, but I ddn't even hear of the CD-57 test until much much later, so I couldn't tell you. Although from research, Samento does kill Lyme and boost our own immue systems to kill Lyme, so naturally (no pun intended ), the CD-57's would go up for a while, and after a while, white blood cell levels will go down and the CD-57 natural killer cell levels will go down as well.
Good Luck to you, K-lyme
Posts: 227 | From CA | Registered: Apr 2004
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
Thanks for the response.
Hmm. That does not make sense to me. If Lyme causes suppression of CD57 and the Lyme is then killed, you would have increased CD57 and it would not go down. The whole point of the test is that if it is down, you likely still have active Lyme. So I don't necessarily agree that it would go back down if in fact it came back up.
People with Lyme usually have a count of < 60 where the healthy population is > 200.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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i haven't tried looking at CD57 relative to samento... but i have looked at the reproducibility of CD57 generally, and i think it's not as simple as it seems.
if you check your levels every day (which i've done for 3 to 5 days in a row, a couple times) you'll see that actually there's a fluctuation from draw to draw that is not insignificant. so having just one test and comparing it to one other on order to make clinical decisions about treatment seems problematc to me, unless you're taking about VERY large differences.
the other thing to be careful about is that while it does seem that levels are often under 60 in patients with Lyme, there are other complicating factors i.e. if someone also has cancer or other immune midulating diseases, it may be very high instead. i.e 300.
i posted a lot about this several years ago when i was first trying to see if CD57 (or similarly, elevated immune complexes C1q) could be used to actually track levels on Lyme or degress of infection relative to various drugs.... i don't know if those posts are still there...?
i did see changes, but had to do minimum three days of CD57 draws in a row in order to average the levels sufficiently to come to any conclusions about which antibiotics were helping and which weren't. the other issue is that Labcorps used to process the test in differnt locations depending on what day it was (new jersy or texas i believe), and the parameters were slightly different for the locations. so while it wasn't that important, if you are comparing just one test to another that can add additional variability.
i'm not saying at all that the test isn't useful -- if you get a level of 0 (which my partner consistently did) or between 23 and 50 (me) or 150 (non-Lymie friend) that can mean something. and those numbers did actually reflect our general level of wellness and ability to get well. our friend wasn't sick at all, i was not very sick, and took a lot of treatement but did respond well, and my partner has generally responded very poorly to even very aggressive treatment.
but it's my impression (and the impression of some of our docs and labs that we have talked to) using CD57 or elevated immune complexes C1q) to evaluate particular treatment (which seems like it should be possible and what i wanted to use it for) is more complex and takes a lot more sticks...
best, flossie
[ 17. August 2006, 01:38 PM: Message edited by: flossie ]
Posts: 773 | From yahoo.com | Registered: Dec 2002
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
I agree. I only advocate getting CD57 levels checked about every six months. I do not think that looking at several samples over the course of several days is what my intent was. I did two tests. One was 70 then several months later, was 65. I essentially said that was the same and have not done it for many months now. Probably again in 2-3 more.
I am however interested in anyone that did the CD57 then went on Samento for many months and then checked it again. Buhner says it specifically raises CD57 and I was looking for validation of that.
Good information. Thanks Flossie
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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), the CD-57's would go up for a while, and after a while, white blood cell levels will go down and the CD-57 natural killer cell levels will go down as well.
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