Topic: Get out the ice cream- Eating organic food can kill you
Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
My oh my.. I should just eat flies.
I threw out my bags of spinich last month. I dumped my carrot juice down the drain when it was recalled.
I drank organic pear juice a while back that had fermented .. and I was an unhappy tipsy lady who thought the Babesiosis was just hitting harder than normal.
I ate organic hummas several years ago... and managed to get Listeria from a tainted batch.
I got food poisoning from eating a fresh FRIED hard crab when the chef left the batter out in the heated kitchen all day.
My deer meat may be infected... my tea may be moldy... my doughnuts make me fatter... sooooooo I ask...
What's a hungry girl to do?
The Risky Nature of Organics
By John Berlau Copyright 1999 Investor's Business Daily March 3, 1999
Organic food is a booming business.
Once sold mostly in health food stores, most cities have at least one upscale supermarket that features natural and organic foods. Established grocery chains are also making room on their shelves for produce labeled organic.
Sales of organic products have grown at an average annual rate of 42% from 1992 to 1997, according to the Organic Trade Association. Organics are now a $ 4.2 billion annual industry - and that's estimated to climb to $ 6.6 billion by 2000.
Even though organic food frequently costs more - for example, organic produce costs an average of 57% more than food grown with man-made chemicals, according to Consumer Reports - many customers are willing to pay extra because they believe the food is safer and healthier.
"(Reducing) pesticides in the diet is probably a big reason why people buy organic food," said Kate Clancy, director of the Agriculture Policy Project at the Henry A. Wallace Institute for Alternative Agriculture in Greenbelt, Md.
It was in late February 10 years ago that CBS' "60 Minutes" set off a national panic by calling Alar, a chemical sprayed on apple trees to uniformly ripen fruit, "the most potent cancer-causing agent in our food supply." Major health groups like the American Medical Association have since calmed some of the panic by calling fears about Alar exposure groundless.
In 1996, the prestigious National Research Council concluded that chemicals in the diet pose few health risks. "Based on existing exposure data," the council said, "the great majority of individual naturally occurring and synthetic chemicals in the diet appears to be present at levels below which any significant biological effect is likely."
The council also said that naturally occurring chemicals are much more prevalent in the diet than manmade ones.
Even so, there has been a flurry of warnings about the risks of pesticides over the past month. In a report titled "Do You Know What You're Eating," Consumers Union, which publishes Consumer Reports, suggested that people should buy organically grown foods because they "have substantially lower pesticide toxicity loading than conventionally grown counterparts."
Still, the report, which was partially funded by environmental funding groups like the W. Alton Jones Foundation, acknowledged that the health benefits of eating fruits and vegetables "outweigh risks from the pesticides they contain." During the Alar scare, some environmental groups suggested that children could develop cancer if they ate produce that was sprayed with pesticides.
A report by the Environmental Working Group put it in even stronger terms: "Buy as much organic food as possible."
In a brochure called "Pesticides and Food," the Environmental Protection Agency likewise endorses organic products. It suggests buying organic food "to reduce your family's risk of pesticide exposure."
But some prominent food scientists and analysts are now saying that organic food is actually riskier than food grown with chemicals because of the way it is fertilized.
"Organic is now obviously the deadly choice in food," said Dennis Avery, director of global food issues at the Hudson Institute.
Avery, who served as a food analyst in the departments of State and Agriculture, says the composted animal manure used without chemical sprays and rinses to fertilize organic food may infect the food with deadly bacteria that are carried in feces.
"We have never recorded a death that anyone could attribute to pesticide residues," Avery said. Yet he notes that the Centers for Disease Control report hundreds of deaths caused by foodborne illnesses each year and estimates there are thousands more.
Though he doesn't attack organic food as strongly as Avery, Lester Crawford, director of the Center for Food and Nutrition Policy at Georgetown University, is also concerned.
He said eating organic food carries "quite a risk" if farmers "use improperly composted manure.
"I can't see in the data that there is a problem (consuming food treated with pesticides)," said Crawford, a former division head at the Agriculture Department and the Food and Drug Administration.
"(Consumer groups) need to be scaring us about things like bacteria and viruses in the food, and they're still talking about pesticides," he added.
Over the past 15 years, deadly new strains of foodborne bacteria have emerged, such as E. coli 0157:H7. The CDC estimates that this strand of E. coli causes as many as 250 deaths and 20,000 illnesses per year.
While it was originally found in undercooked meat, more recently this strain of E. coli has been traced to produce. This poses more of a problem since many fruits and vegetables aren't cooked before they're eaten.
In 1996, two of the biggest outbreaks of food poisoning from this strain were traced to organic lettuce and unpas- teurized apple juice sold in natural food stores. Using a CDC listing of 488 confirmed cases of E. coli outbreaks, Avery points out that 24% of these cases in 1996 could be linked to consuming organic or natural foods.
"Admittedly, this is a limited data set," Avery said. But the numbers are large enough to promote more research, he says.
"I believed something that had less pesticides would not be unsafe for you," said Rita Bernstein of Wilton, Conn., whose two youngest daughters became ill in the lettuce outbreak. Her youngest daughter Haylee, who was 3 at the time, still suffers from reduced kidney function and vision problems.
The CDC has taken issue with some of Avery's interpretations. Paul Meade, a CDC epidemiologist, points out that no study has been done directly comparing the risks of foodborne illnesses from organic and conventionally grown foods.
Still, in 1997, CDC epidemiologist Robert Tauxe was quoted in the Journal of the American Medical Association as saying that organic food may pose special problems, because it is "grown in animal manure."
Later, he wrote in JAMA that composting standards for organic food weren't stringent enough to kill bacteria.
Fans and makers of organic foods went ballistic, according to the TV newsmagazine American Investigator. The program quoted an unnamed CDC official who said the agency was flooded with "nasty calls" from organic groups.
Tauxe also seems to have backtracked. He told American Investigator: "My concern is with manure, not organic (food)." When asked if manure makes organic food more dangerous, he responded: "I'm not sure." Tauxe would not respond to requests to be interviewed for this story.
The Hudson Institute's Avery suspects the "politically correct" status of organic foods may keep the CDC and other government bodies from talking about the risk of consuming them.
Katherine DiMatteo, executive director of the Organic Trade Association, says that Avery is citing examples that don't reflect the way organic foods are typically produced and sold.
She says the lettuce was labeled organic but it wasn't approved by an organic certification group. The unpasteurized apple juice was natural but not organic, she says, and pasteurized food can still be considered organic.
"I lump organic and natural together because they appeal to the same market," Avery said. He also notes that both natural and organic foods -including unpasteurized juices - are sold in organic stores.
DiMatteo says organic farmers don't just use manure to fertilize their crops. They also use "cover crops" like clover and they rotate crops.
She also says that many private and state government certification agencies require that manure be composted for at least 60 days at a temperature that will kill the bacteria.
But Dean Cliver, a professor of food safety at the University of California, Davis, says that as of now, there's no magic number of days of composting manure that will definitely kill E. coli 0157:H7. Tests show the bacteria can survive in manure for as long as 70 days, he says.
He says it's also hard to verify the temperature of composting manure.
posted
Great! I don't like spending the extra money anyways. Maybe the pesticides wil help kill the Lyme and Bart huh? Can't hurt. That way I can cut back on the meds and save there too! Now should I celebrate with ice cream or cheese cake?
-------------------- You're only a failure when you stop trying. Posts: 945 | From U.S | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
Jill E.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9121
posted
I've always believed chocolate was a health food - long before the recent claims about antioxidants.
Perhaps that should be the mainstay of my diet.
One of the worst toxic reactions I ever had was to a canned organic soup. Turns out they used well water as an ingredient.
Well water can be filled with all kinds of pesticides and anything else that soaks into the ground.
I also got sick once on organic coffee, but not on Starbucks!
Even though I try to eat organic produce, especially those like strawberries that have lots of pesticides, all the recent food poisoning outbreaks just make you want to run for a twinkie!!
Jill
-------------------- If laughter is the best medicine, why hasn't stand-up comedy cured me? Posts: 1773 | From San Diego | Registered: Apr 2006
| IP: Logged |
Vermont_Lymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9780
posted
Hi Tin,
Sorry to hear about your organic food mishaps--
Freshness is the thing!
I would rather eat fresh food from a farmers market that is not 100% organic than stale organic food.
Posts: 2557 | From home | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
Every time I shop for organic food, I notice most of it is wilted and nasty looking. I got so frustrated the other day, I mentioned it to a young store clerk who just looked at me blankly.
I sure don't know what the answer is. I wash everything in that Veggie Wash. The organic is usually dirtier than the non.
I guess we need to go back to the "good ole days" when we all grew our own food
lymemomtooo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5396
posted
Chocolate and ice cream are good for me..lmt
Posts: 2360 | From SE PA | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
Aniek
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5374
posted
quote:Originally posted by karatelady: Tin,
Every time I shop for organic food, I notice most of it is wilted and nasty looking. I got so frustrated the other day, I mentioned it to a young store clerk who just looked at me blankly.
I sure don't know what the answer is. I wash everything in that Veggie Wash. The organic is usually dirtier than the non.
I guess we need to go back to the "good ole days" when we all grew our own food
Sandy
One of the reasons is that many non-organic fruits and veggies are waxed so look fresh longer. It also keeps the dirt off. Cucumbers and apples aren't naturally shiney.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
Animal and human manure is called nightsoil, and I think its use is a problem south of the border in Mexico, but I think organic food in the U.S. used composted vegetable matter. If there is any tainting from bacteria or viruses, it is more likely to be incidental as a result of animals or birds going number 2 in the area of crops being grown. That is my understanding of it. So how the crops are picked is important, and keeping the area food is grown as free of critters as possible is important. But I think it is inaccurate to say organic food here in the U.S. is grown in manure.
Farah
Posts: 208 | From New Mexico | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
OCA Statement on Nationwide Outbreak of E-Coli Poisoning from Bagged Spinach By Ronnie Cummins Organic Consumers Association, Sept. 18, 2006
OCA is saddened and concerned about the nationwide outbreak of E. coli food poisoning, which, according to he press, has caused one death and serious illness among more than 100 people, apparently coming from California bagged spinach, affecting several dozen brand names, possibly both organic and non-organic. A Sept. 18 Associated Press story indicates that all contaminated lettuce detected so far has come from non-organic lettuce, though a major company involved in recalling its spinach, Natural Selection Foods, distributes both organic and non-organic brands.
According to Justin Norton from the Associated Press, "The company whose fresh spinach was linked to an E. coli outbreak that's sickened at least 109 people said its organic products had been cleared of contamination, while health officials continued working to pinpoint the bacteria source. Natural Selection Foods LLC, the country's largest grower of organic produce, said late Sunday that manufacturing codes from packages of spinach that infected patients turned over to health officials all were from non-organic spinach. Natural Selection packages both organic and conventionally grown spinach in separate areas at its San Juan Bautista plant."
Already, some agribusiness-connected websites have posted material claiming that this health emergency was caused by organic agriculture's dependence on animal manure as fertilizer. Nothing so far has indicated that this problem is exclusively related to organic spinach nor that it has anything to do with contamination that took place in the field. The most likely explanation for this outbreak is that 90% of the nation's bagged spinach comes from one region in California, Monterey County, where a combination of excess manure, tainted with a dangerous variety of E. coli, from factory style dairy farms adjacent to spinach and lettuce farms, and above average rainfall and flooding appears to have contaminated irrigation water with E. coli-tainted animal feces, resulting in spinach plants being contaminated with E. coli. As background to his issue, the Cornucopia Institute www.Cornucopia.org has provided the following information.
1. Organic Farming Protects Humans, Livestock, and Environment ― from Dangerous Profit-Motivated Industrial Agricultural Practices
Over the years, right-wing think tanks (the Hudson Institute, the Competitive Enterprise Institute, and the Hoover Institution, etc.) have tried to discredit organic farming practices by saying that composted fertilizer containing animal manure, used as a non-chemical fertilizer on organic farms, is dangerous, when in fact there have been very few reported cases of of food poisoning caused by organic products. On the other hand the Centers for Disease Control have admitted that American consumers suffer from up to 78 million cases of food poisoning (coming from conventional food) every year. Think tank funding for much of this anti-organic propaganda comes from Monsanto, DuPont, and other agrichemical manufacturers.
A study by the University of Minnesota, published in the May 2004 issue of Journal of Food Protection, concluded that there was no statistical difference between contamination in vegetables grown on conventional and organic Minnesota farms, with chemical fertilizer and composted manure, respectively.
2. Risks from industrial concentration/factory farming
According to an FDA letter to growers (November 2005): "The FDA is aware of 18 outbreaks of foodborne illness since 1995 caused by Escherichia coli 0157:H7 for which fresh or fresh cut-lettuce was implicated as the outbreak vehicle."
This is a problem that far supersedes debates about the merit of organic farming. This is a grave public health risk directly attributable to industrial-scale livestock production (factory-farming).
This agricultural area of California, where this latest contamination crisis originated, produces the majority of the country's spinach and many other fresh-market vegetables. It is contiguous to many CAFOs (Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations) managing thousands of dairy cows each.
The combination of this concentration of a mountain of manure in a relatively small geographic area, and animal feeding practices, poses tremendous health and environmental liabilities.
E. coli and other potent pathogens are known to migrate onto neighboring farms by contamination of surface water and groundwater and/or by becoming airborne through blowing dust from feedlots or farm fields where manure has been spread.
The FDA's November 2005 letter went on to say, ``E. coli O157-H7 was isolated from sediment in an irrigation canal bordering a ranch that had been identified in three separate outbreaks."
A concern is that many of the pathogens now entering the food chain due to industrial agricultural practices are becoming resistant to many antibiotics due to their widespread use in livestock production.
``To get this many people sick, it's got to be the water,'' said William Marler, a Seattle attorney who is representing 25 victims of the outbreak. ``Thirty years ago, if you bought contaminated lettuce or spinach, just your family would get sick. Now it's a nationwide outbreak."
E. coli O157-H7 is a by-product of grain-based feeding to ruminants (dairy and beef cattle) in an attempt to fatten them up quicker and at a lower cost. The cow's digestive system (and acid balance) evolved to break down grass, not high-production, refined rations. This health crisis, and past deadly problems with contaminated meat, is a direct by-product of producing cheap, unhealthy cattle.
The majority of all animal manure, as well as municipal sewage sludge (politely referred to as biosolids―human waste), in this country is spread on conventional crops. In most cases there is little regulatory oversight.
3. Organic safeguards
Unlike conventional production, the application of raw manure on organic crops is strictly regulated and sewage sludge is prohibited. Most organic manure is composted prior to application, a practice that greatly reduces risk and enhances environmental protection.
``I am a compliance officer. The USDA has looked into our farmers' composting practices―even on our smallest farm―they do check if things are not documented. Details ARE looked at. I can prove this because of an USDA audit we had that covered this issue,'' said Cissy Bowman, a long-time organic certification expert based in Indiana.
It should be noted that regardless of scale, all organic food has a mandatory audit trail required, so trace-back in the event of food contamination or questions of certification are possible. This mandatory audit trail does not exist for conventional food.
4. Organic and local ― an antidote for the problems of industrial farming
Furthermore, concentrating much of the nation's food supply in any given region, and the exponential increase in imports from developing countries, puts our nation's food security and health at risk.
There is no reason why spinach cannot be grown, much of the year, as is now being done by small and medium-sized producers in the Midwest and throughout much of the Northeast. The only reason that this is not being done on a larger scale is artificial economies, subsidies, and compromises in quality in an unbridled effort to produce cheaper and cheaper food in this country.
There has been exponential growth in direct-marketing by farmers at roadside stands, farmers markets, Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) farms, and organic farms. It adds great meaning for many consumers to buy organic food directly from the families who produce it, with loving care. These farm families need to be protected from any fallout in the marketplace that might occur due to the practices of large industrial farms in California.
I don't know about everyone else, but the main reason I eat organic as much as possible is because of the GM ingredients....not necessarily the pesticides. Chemicals are scary and toxic, but gene splicing utilizing viruses are downright terrifying!
Heidi
Posts: 36 | From new york | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
trails
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1620
posted
The NON-organic scare is HYPE from the HUGE agri-bussiness (DOLE and MONSANTO and DEL MONTE, etc) that CONTROLS most of this country's food and is very scared by the grass roots efforts that are gathering speed for organic food and small farms and locally grown produce.
The e-coli tragedy is just what they needed to scare people into eating their crap.
dont believe the hype.
It doesnt matter if it was grown organically or not, the large farms that can not control every aspect of their growing and picking will always be at risk for bacteria and disease outbreak. no matter if it is organic or not.
I live in the central valley of CA--where agri-bussiness surrounds me. I live about and hour from where the tainted spinach was found. I have seen much political scrambling here to see how agri-bussinesses can benefit from this.
yes---get out the ice cream, by all means.
but dont let the super huge corporations run your life and your body. Eat what you know is best for you: locally grown food that is well taken care of and inspected and hopefully organic.
PS---I am not a health nut and I dont always choose organic.
Posts: 1950 | From New Mexico | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged |
trails
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1620
posted
PPS---if you wanna follow some of the money on this trail read FAST FOOD NATION or watch some old episodes of PBS Bill Moyers.
Posts: 1950 | From New Mexico | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged |
mlkeen
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1260
posted
Here in PA, food can be certified organic if stringent proceedures are followed.
In order for produce to be labeled Certified Organic, amoung other things, the manure must be composted until it heats to a specific temp for a number of days to kill bacteria that may be lurking. Or the manure has to be spread at least 120 days before you plant crops. I bet you didn't think I knew crap!
The problem comes when heat or microbes haven't killed harmful bacteria that can then transfer to crops. When produce is picked and put in plastic the bacteria is encouraged to multiply....
Somehow buying "organic produce" all wraped up in plastic at a supermarket just doesn't seem organic to me.
Posts: 1572 | From Pa | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I grew up on home grown veggies. I eat as much organic as I can and will grow as much as I can for myself. Big Ag runs about everything,they are the ones spewing manure to be worried about. Just read the book " Our Stolen Future" Your hair will stand up after that.
I saw an article today on how men's testosterone levels are dropping off. Pesticides are why, they are estrogen mimicers.
I live on a working farm. The farmer who leases from me has 4 children. The oldest , a boy is mentally challenged and has penile deformities. Most likley from the father's exposure to the herbicide Atrazine. Penile malformations have sky rocketed over the last few decades. see link http://lists.essential.org/1997/dioxin-l/msg00605.html
The two daughters have been plagued by sleep dsorders, ear infections and other assorted health problems. The fourth child was born in June so I do not know if he has problems, yet.
Farmers have a high rate of parkinson's, linked to exposure to chemicals. So yes, keep eating the tasteless produce served up on a massive scale.
Posts: 160 | From texas | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
My husband grows alot of our fruits and veggies and we never get sick from them. We get milk from our neighbors cow and goat and it is yummy.
We also get fresh country eggs on our farm but I rarely kill a chicken to eat. My kids just wouldn't understand.
I am all for eating organic as long as I grow it, I wonder how much is really better for us anyhow?
I'm gonna get out that ice cream now that I have a good excuse!!
-------------------- Daisy Posts: 122 | From at the computer | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
the anti-organic crusade is nothing more than agri-business hoopla & propaganda.
eating organic is expensive and definitely not always doable financially (thank capitalism and big agribusiness for that), but if and when you can afford it, it is absolutely better for both you and the environment to eat organic, without question. please try not to injest conventionally grown (pesticides, weed killers, wax, ick) and genetically modified crap.
(it is especially important not to eat conventional berries - strawberries, blueberries, blackberries, etc. something about the structure of the fruit makes it hold onto a huge percentage of the toxins used in conventional growing practices.. if berries are the only foods you buy organic, it's worth it.)
and yes, if you can get your organic produce locally grown, that's even better.
sizzled
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1357
posted
I support local organic farmers!
Gonna die someday of something but I'll be damned if I am going to support genetically-engineered food and chemically altered, pesticide agriculture.
They are incredibly strict about what is labeled 'organic'.
What have they done about prions in our food???
Besides....if I get sick from eating my neighbor's food...I'll just go and him on the head!! Posts: 4258 | From over there | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[bonk]](graemlins/bonk.gif)
him on the head!! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic