posted
i think lyme is mostly hypercoagulation and no blood flow to the brain
my reason for thinking this is that i can feel my brain wiggle when I quickly turn my head
heparin thins blood and improves cognitive stuff?
does this work?
Posts: 8 | From Texas | Registered: Oct 2006
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SForsgren
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I just stopped heparin after just over 4 months of 5000 units twice daily. I know that some people like it, but personally, I wish I had never started it. I am back to Rechts-Regulat now and am thinking that I could have done without my heparin trial.
I do believe hypercoagulation is an important part of treating Lyme disease. I am just not convinced that Heparin was the way to go.
The reason is still theory and not proven, but I have pretty good reason to believe the heparin started a cascade of issues that I have not yet resolved.
Heparin:
1) Causes hair loss (fortunately I have not seen that) 2) Causes osteoporosis 3) Leaves big ugly bloody bruises at the injection site that scar and do not go away (I have those) 4) Made me feel no better
Recently, I had my standard twice yearly bloodwork done by my endocrinologist. From March (had not started heparin yet) to now, my cholesterol went from 180 to 223. The increase was in HDL.
I found information that suggested that unfractionated heparin can raise HDL cholesterol. I also received some very strange results on my hormone tests. Testosterone went from 550 to over 1200. Estrone from 30 to 130 (dangerous). I read where Marnie had posted in the past that increase in cholesterol can impact hormones as that is where the hormones come from.
Thus my working theory is that the heparin raised my cholesterol and thus impacted hormones as well essentially setting everything out of balance.
Thus, if anyone wants to try heparin and be totally safe, for now, I would at least suggest monitoring of hormones and cholesterol as you pursue this treatment.
I for one have stopped and will likely never do it again (or at least cannot envision doing it again).
posted
thank you for the info
Posts: 8 | From Texas | Registered: Oct 2006
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GiGi
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Dr. K. when discussing Heparin at the recent KMT Matrix seminar told:
Heparin leads to increase of cellular defense mechanism. Heparin binds metals.
From my little knowledge, as soon as the heavy metals are on the move and/or a flare-up of any of the infections happen which often is connected with release of heavy metals (because they are all part of the total eco-system), cholesterol production (for our protection) by liver increases. When the danger is past, cholesterol goes down.
Glad you didn't lose your handsome locks! Four months is a l o n g time!
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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Thank you for sharing your information! I started doing heparin injections a couple of months or so ago and am still not taking as much as my doctor would like me to.
It really makes me herx too, although I'm not sure if it is treating a possible Babesia infection and/or uncovering infections, so my immune system can get to them. My best guess is both.
I think now is a good time and reason for me to purchase some Recht-Regulate and see if I can avoid any of the negative issues you mentioned with the heparin.
I get a PT, PTT, INR, and fibrinogen test done every 10 days, so I should be able to see if the Rechts-Regulat will work for me instead, assuming it doesn't take it long to start working.
-------------------- My Lyme dx:11/05. My Mom's Lyme dx:5/16. ISO ASAP-Lyme Literate Dr & Neurologist-Prefer IL, IN, KY, MO, OH, TN. Can travel farther. Finances limited. Prefer Drs take Medicare or Payments. Need great list to find best fit. Tyvm. Posts: 701 | From Owensboro, KY | Registered: Sep 2005
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SForsgren
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I think it is important to comment that some people I have talked with have had very good results with heparin.
My experience is not relayed here to suggest that people stop or even consider that. However, I would suggest that you might follow your cholesterol and hormone production as a precaution while using it.
I don't know yet whether or not my theory is correct, but I did find some information online to suggest that heparin does increase lipid levels:
In the meantime, please take this as only one experience and one that is still somewhat speculation. I just think it is wise to be cautious when it comes to this drug. I got too excited about it and now wish I had been more clear on the potential side effects.
I also think that if you are seeing a herx from using it, that is a good sign.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I had less pain while on Heparin and I took it for 3 years. No problems with cholesterol, although my triglycerides spiked one time soon after going on the heparin.
I think it was due to a not-so-good diet, though!!
There is research which shows its benefits in babesia treatment, as well as getting the abx deeper into tissues, cells because the fibrinogen is cleared out.
I'm now taking Boluoke and Rutozyme.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96223 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
Hi all--I have what is probably a stupid Q but I'm new to all of this...
The heparin that you use during your infusion regimin--is that the same kind/and dose as what your doctors had you on? Is this just to allow the blood to flow to other parts of the body more easily?
Also, how and why is it effective in treating babs?
Thank you to anyone who can help!
Ashley Posts: 77 | From New York | Registered: Oct 2006
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Marnie
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posted
For several reasons, lyme does cause "thick blood".
Bb looks to lock onto heparin (acidic)moreso than heparin sulfate.
Heparin is often used as a treatment adjunct in cancer. Those patients also often have "thick blood".
Some tidbits:
It was originally isolated from liver cells, hence its name (hepar or "ηπαρ" is Greek for "liver").
Pharmaceutical grade heparin is commonly derived from mucosal tissues of slaughtered meat animals such as porcine intestine or bovine lung.
In case of overdose, protamine sulfate can be given to counteract the action of heparin.
Heparin has the advantage over EDTA as an anticoagulant, as it does not affect levels of ions (such as calcium). Heparin can interfere with some immunoassays, however. As lithium heparin is usually used, a person's lithium levels cannot be obtained from these tubes; for this purpose, royal-blue topped Vacutainers containing sodium heparin are used.
Magnesium may reduce insoluble fibrin levels by displacing calcium in the coagulation process.
Ultrasound, which inhibits coagulation, may offer an effective means of treatment as well as diagnosis.
Heparin inhibits acetylcholine receptor aggregation at two distinct steps in the agrin-induced pathway.
These results clearly demonstrated that unfractioned heparin causes a concentration-dependent vasodilatation in human internal mammary artery, and this action seems to be via endothelium-dependent mechanisms, including
generation of nitric oxide
and endothelium-derived hyperpolarizing factor.
Unfractioned Heparin Produces Vasodilatory Action on Human Internal Mammary Artery by Endothelium-Dependent Mechanisms.
Lithium Inhibits a Late Step in Agrin-Induced AChR (acetylcholine receptor) Aggregation too.
Heparin preserves the vasoregulatory function of the coronary endothelium during brief episodes of ischemia-reperfusion injury, in part, via the nitric oxide pathway. Administration of heparin may have important therapeutic implications in the prevention of coronary endothelial dysfunction associated with reperfusion injury.
Heparin and heparan sulfate have recently been shown to bind to snake cardiotoxin (CTX) and to potentiate its penetration into phospholipid monolayer under physiological ionic conditions.
Inhibition of receptors for inositol 1,4,5-trisphosphate (IP3) by heparin or flunarizine blocks the effect of acetylcholine but only partly blocks the effect of cholecystokinin.
Moderate alcohol consumption may reduce levels of Factor VIII and fibrinogen, whereas disease states and hypothalamic stimulation may elevate them.
Smoking increases both red cell mass and fibrinogen levels.
These were treated with NaOH to release heparin chains...
NaOH is sodium hydrodroxide lye...very caustic, very toxic, very dangerous. It is a very strong BASE.
Baking soda is a weak base. It's formula is: NaHCO3.
Heparin-induced thrombocytopenia (HIT): a rare but serious complication of heparin therapy involving a decrease in platelet count.
Heparin is found in the natural state in the liver, lungs and other tissues. It is produced by mast cells and leukocytes (white blood cells - the most numerous are neutrophils).
A minimum chain length of 16 residues is required for heparin to inhibit cell binding by B. burgdorferi.
16...shoot...there it is again!
With Ca high... Calcium is needed to activate prothrombin, which helps convert fibrinogen to fibrin and is essential to blood coagulation.
Research the link between vitamin E and vitamin K.
If Vitamin E drops, if Ca is too high, if heparin is "tied up"...no wonder.
HIV is the direct opposite. Those suffering with HIV have to get shots because their blood is too thin.
HIV uses Mg. Bb uses Mn.
(In a pinch, if Mg is too low, the body will utilize Mn.)
In HIV, zinc goes down, copper up. In lyme, the reverse.
[ 11. November 2006, 04:12 PM: Message edited by: Marnie ]
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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GiGi
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I remember that some people turned allergic to the "affordable" heparin which then caused Dr. K. to stop using. Apparently there are different kinds. I don't know which ones - good or bad. I have never used heparin of any kind, except to flush my port when I used to have one. Dr. K. definitely uses Heparin where indicated.
Study the Hemex website - maybe they will give some useful information.
My general feeling is that when people take 50 different supplements and nutrients and pharma drugs, I am hesitant to call one particular substance the culprit. Reason: Usually things work in synergy, i.e. one substance is beneficial if taken alone; another substance if taken alone may be beneficial. But taking the two together, even separated by hours or a day, may cause a negative reaction. The body can deal with one and accomplish the task this particular substance requires. There is always an added "chore" that these "substances" ask of our body. And sometimes, this old body just gets tired and it turns against the very thing we think is good for us. (This is called a biochemical consequence = allergy; one of the four different types of allergies we know, i.e. there are emotional allergies, pure Autonomic Nervous System reactions/allergies, etc. etc.)
We forget that literally everything we put in our mouth or on our body, especially when the body is already struggling to keep going, has an effect, not always positive. Multiply that by the number of items you take and do that over a few months - you are bound to have reactions - and most likely tending to be negative rather than positive.
We also forget that all supplements are extremely potent when compared to a food. How long do you think your body will tolerate this????? It has to dispose of the residue somewhere. Just look at the fillers that are in every supplement you swallow!!!!!! Ever given some thought to how many pounds of magnesium stearate you are depositing somewhere in your gut? We know for certain that antibiotic residue stays in the body for many years!
Think before you swallow all that man-made chemistry. Eat good foods and a variety of it.
Take care.
[ 11. November 2006, 06:17 PM: Message edited by: GiGi ]
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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SForsgren
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I agree with Gigi's comment that it is difficult to say that it is one thing or a combination of things. Many of us are doing several different things and certainly they can interact with one another. Whether or not it was the heparin alone, heparin combined with something else, or not related the heparin at all is still conjecture. I am working with my doctors now to try and figure out the cause and get things back in balance.
My main point is that I think people that are using heparin should potentially consider the added monitoring of cholesterol and hormones just to be safe.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by ashleygait: The heparin that you use during your infusion regimin--is that the same kind/and dose as what your doctors had you on? Is this just to allow the blood to flow to other parts of the body more easily?
Also, how and why is it effective in treating babs?
Sorry your question wasn't answered. The dosage is NOT the same at all. I'm not sure of the exact dosages, but I'm pretty sure that what is given daily in shots is different from using it for IV flushes. [I'm pretty sure the dosage given in the IV is minimal.]
As for the babesia, there is research which shows it can inhibit the protozoa. I don't have the link to that info.
You can do a search here because it has been discussed before. Just type in "babesia and heparin."
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96223 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
Thank you so much Lymetutu! Posts: 77 | From New York | Registered: Oct 2006
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Jellybelly
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I was on the less epensive heparin for about 3 1/2 years. Unlike Scott, I was losing my hair BEFORE the heparin, heparin helped my hair to grow back in, more blood flow I suppose. I felt like there was no blood in my brain.
I had no ugly bruises, because I used a nasal spray form of heparin that a compunding pharmacy made up for my docs patients. Dose for dose the same. The spray was a real plus.
My doc said that they have found over the years that osteoperosis was not as much of a concern as they first thought, due to the extremely low dosing. He does try Nattokinase before putting his patients on heparin now.
I have been off of the heparin and in a high state of remission for about 4 1/2 years now. I believe that the heparin ALONG WITH some, not alot of ABX have gotten me to where I am now.
Posts: 1251 | From california | Registered: Apr 2005
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GiGi
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Posted this on another thread, but it fits here too.
Scott also talked hormones, cholesterol, etc.
This is what I learned over time from my doctor:
Cholesterol should be between 180-220, somewhere in there. That's my doctor's normal. It has a meaning if it is below: People don't produce hormones, their sex drive dies. At a level below 180, per his writings, the cancer risk goes dramatically up, and their sex drive and joy of life goes down.
Per Dr. K., over 220, it usually has to do with active heavy metal toxicity. Anything over 220 is his indicator: watch our for the metals; put them on a new program so the metals are moving through the system again.
With the hormones, he also looks at the cholesterol levels; and if the level is too low, he tests people for the different oils. Fish oil is usually number one.
Niacin is also, in cardiac care, the preferred substance to elevate the HDL levels, high density lipoprotein levels, It has a great effect in turning on the shuttle system across the cell wall for heavy metals. Dr. K. calls it reverse cholesterol transport.
A high cholesterol level protects us from neurological diseases. Cholesterol has to be high for detoxing. Cholesterol is a shuttle agent for the toxic material.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
3) Leaves big ugly bloody bruises at the injection site that scar and do not go away (I have those)
Scott, what size needles did you use?
4) Made me feel no better
maybe 4 months wasn't long enough? Maybe you don't have babs either? Have you tested positive for it?
HDL is the good cholesterol...There is nothing wrong with it going up. It's a good thing.
-------------------- You're only a failure when you stop trying. Posts: 945 | From U.S | Registered: Oct 2004
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SForsgren
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I used 30g 1/2 inch 1cc needles. I do have confirmed Babesia.
Again, not suggesting people don't use it, but suggesing that people use it only after reading about and understanding the potential risks and doing appropriate monitoring tests with your doctor while on it (PT/PTT and based on my experience, I would monitor lipids and hormones).
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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