posted
Has anyone found garlic to help their symptoms? I read that garlic is a stronger antibiotic agent than doxycyline. How about hyperbaric oxygen therapy? Far infrared sauna? I'm wondering if there is anything that helps heal lyme besides antibiotics, which I have heard don't always work?Thank you for any info.
Posts: 6 | From FL | Registered: Nov 2006
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GiGi
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Garlic is one of the best. Far Infrared Sauna is great. Hyperbaric Oxygen did not help me that I could tell. You can do a search here on all three and find lots of commentary from many people.
Antibiotics for about 3 months, then I went almost totally with many different alternatives. I am totally well today.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Saunas, hot baths, and use of a far infrared heat lamp helped me a lot.
Farah
Posts: 208 | From New Mexico | Registered: Dec 2005
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Jill E.
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Yes, do searches on all these topics - they are discussed repeatedly. What works for some doesn't always work for others.
But in terms of garlic, I bow down to its effectiveness as a yeast-killer and natural antibiotic.
If I could only choose one natural supplement, for me, that's the one.
Jill
-------------------- If laughter is the best medicine, why hasn't stand-up comedy cured me? Posts: 1773 | From San Diego | Registered: Apr 2006
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AZURE WISH
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A little while ago GiGi had a really interesting post on garlic... If my memory is right alot of people on that thread were using / had used garlic.
posted
Gigi--is there a place I could find what alternative protocols you used to rid yoursel fof the lyme's? I don't want you to have to rewrite it if I can find it somewhere else.
I'd love to hear what has worked for you, bearing in mind of course that there is no one path to wellness... Posts: 77 | From New York | Registered: Oct 2006
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GiGi
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Crushed garlic loses its allicin releasing potential very quickly once crushed, etc. My aim with garlic is to be sure it is organically grown and freeze dried. That way it retains its potency until you are ready to put the capsules in your body.
If you add some of the ozonated oils (see my posts) and some of the Buhner herbs (lots of talk on this site) to this and stay with it faithfully, doing colonics and lymph drainages, etc. along the way, you are well on your way to conquering Lyme ----- with one caveat: Detox heavy metals effectively and make sure you have no dental infections, root canals, and of course amalgam fillings.
I took these notes from one of the talks by Dr. K. (www.neuraltherapy.com and www.klinghardt.org) This is the way he talks to his students (MD's and other practitioners) and even a lyme brain should be able to understand. I used to have one of these myself.
So unless you chop up organic garlic yourself 3 times a day or find it in a freeze dried form -- most others there is no guarantee of what is left in it. Certainly not the one that is crushed from Costco or any deli! Organic is the word. Why spend any money, have to tolerate eating it 3 times a day and use something that is not quite up to snuff in potency?
(We use Bioimmersion or Biopure freeze dried garlic. Maybe you can find some other brand that is worthwhile)Bioimmersion has very few products - only therapeutic foods. Their garlic is QAI certified raw organic garlic, freeze dried (proprietary/state of the art) with 26,800 ppm alliin content (industry standard for high potency is 10,000 ppm) Biopure is the same.
************************************************* Here is his talk:
"Garlic and a global approach to bugs
Don't try to pinpoint the specific bugs.
It is estimated through some newer studies that at any given time there are about 400 bowel bacteria that can currently be diagnosed, but science already knows that it estimates the number of different species in our bowel to be closer to 20,000. That means out of some 20,000 bugs, we only can diagnose 400. And the question comes up -- `what's the point?''
Let's do a global treatment for it. Let's raise specific immunity to the bugs. I use freeze-dried o r g a n i c garlic which is fantastic when it releases its allicin for its global anti-infectious effect.
Let's look at what the metals are doing to the person, and kind of undo that part so the body can do the rest. It's really kind of going back to the old naturopathic principles.
When you move mercury in reverse through the tissues (by DMPS shots, or other agents), you have to give Vitamin E and Garlic as protective agents in the blood, otherwise you get a tremendous amount of oxidative damage in the blood.
Vitamin E protects the system very strongly while mercury is moving out from the system. Vitamin E and garlic protect the red blood cells and the white blood cells while mercury is coming out backwards from the cells to the connective tissue, out in the bloodstream stream and out through the emunctories. The blood needs to be protected. The Vitamin E is doing a great job. I am not totally sure that alpha tocopherol anymore is the right one. That was the one in the literature, but at the time there was nothing else available. There is lots of literature now about gamma tocopherol being the far better agent, and there is a conflict between gamma and alpha. They neutralize each other, and there are the tocotrienols now, so I am not sure about the ultimate..... the research that was done on the protective effects of Vitamin E was done on the cheap over-the-counter alpha tocophereol.
************************************************************************We want to support the toxin removal via the gallbladder and bile duct. And again, the psychological work shines here. Coriander (Cilantro tincture) is incredible for the gallbladder and Taraxacum (dandelion) and Garlic and Bear Garlic (which is a form of European wild garlic) which is fantastic in its properties.
I have a whole lecture on garlic. There is a principle that applies in detox that is very important for you to understand. In the old days, the treatment of syphilis was giving people high doses of mercury. That's because mercury was an effective antibiotic for syphilis. Beethoven died of mercury poisoning from syphilis treatment, that's why he lost his hearing. Mozart died of mercury poisoning, which is not known in the U.S. It is known in Austria, but they kept it as a little small secret, so he could be the hero out there and not be shamed in that way. But it is important. Yes, Mozart didn't die of TB; he died of mercury poisoning.
Some people died because it killed the body before it killed the bugs, but just follow me mentally, and sort of know: Imagine you have somebody who is full of amalgam fillings and has high mercury levels in their system, and they get bitten by a Lyme spirochete. What will that do to the Lyme spirochete? It will control it somewhat in the system. Right? The daily dose of mercury coming in the system will suppress the Lyme spriochete.
Now what is going to happen if you remove the amalgam fillings? The Lyme disease suddently starts burning like a wildfire, and mostly because the Lyme spirochete recover from the mercury poisoning much quicker than the cells of our immune system do. That's a big enigma in our thing, that we do detox and some patients get clearly worse. And it's always the same; they've got Lyme disease or some other infection that was controlled before with mercury.
Suggestion: How about controlling the infection with something else, like some nice herbs instead? The nicest herb that we have found is freeze-dried garlic. There is fantastic literature. There is Dr. Zhang in NY who tracked the treatment of syphilis in China, which was always done with garlic very, very successfully. So we give people high doses of freeze-dried garlic, 3 capsules after each meal, 3-4 times each day. We work slowly up to it. Once side effect is that the worms come out, and giardia and amoebas get killed. We have got all the literature. H. pylori die from it. Most Herpes viruses disappear from the system. So those are the side effect of garlic, that you clean up the gut, but it is also very, very potent in the treatment of Lyme Disease and the other co-infections.
Now, when we struggled a little bit with the issue that the freeze-dried garlic we had available so far was not organic. It was grown in China, and we know about the uncontrolled pollution of herbs and stuff in China, so we now went to an organic source of freeze-dried garlic, which is slightly more expensive, but is fantastic, and I recommend the use of that. Biopure carries it. and it is produced by very close friends of us who constantly check the whole production - from where and how it is grown to here. That is a very important issue, because garlic binds toxins very naturally. It is strong because of its sulfa compounds, and if it's not grown organically, it is already full of stuff we don't want.
Freeze-dried garlic is a very very important co-treatment when you detox somebody to keep the infections at bay that you otherwise may unleash, to give the immune system time to recover. The immune system usually takes between 1-2 years to bounce back, and in that time when we give the freeze-dried goat whey, it has all the transfer factors and the immunity that the mama goat transfers to the baby goat; so we are basically treating the mercury toxic patient like the baby goat that needs immune support, and it needs the knocking down of the bugs with the garlic.
These are two aspects that are overlooked in, I think, pretty much everybody else's detox programs. You cannot do detox without addressing the infections that are in there. It's an ecocystem that you are changing and you can't just do one intervention. You have to treat all the players with it.
Bear garlic, also called European Garlic, versus regular garlic: Regular garlic is what most of the studies were based on. However, in Europe there is a tradition for about 2000 years, the old Celts every spring when bear garlic blooms (it doesn't form a bulb like garlic does), used it. It's a leaf actually that has all the allin in it that then converts to allicin, and the old German tribes used it. Even Caesar wrote a book on that, a small section on it. In spring, the Celts had the habit of trearing out the bear garlic leaves and eating them.
For the old Germans, it was their parasite cleanse in spring - by eating the bear garlic leaves. They also attributed to it that they got supernatural male powers from it - so it was an aphrodisiac as well and gave them a certain sense of supernormal strength.
A friend pharmacist, did a comparative study on the ingredients and found on a per gram basis, there is more allin, which is the precursor, there's more allin and alinase in garlic. Allin is the active, the holy substance in there. Then the moment you chew it, the enzyme that is released in the cell wall of the alinase, and it converts allin into allicin. Allicin is the most potent plant anit-microbial agent ever studied. So bear garlic has more of that in it.
The trouble with bear garlic: A couple of papers were published by Dr. K. in Germany and then it became the most popular wild plant in Germany, already with the effect that in only 12 years, the amount has been truly decimated. It only grows naturally, you can't cultivate it in farms. It has to grow by riverbanks. So it's not sustainable at the current rate of use.
Shift to the garlic that can be gown in farms organically.
Garlic is a medicine. Let's not tell anybody, because at the rate we are going with use of herbs, mushrooms, chapparal being taken away, etc., as soon as a study is published showing medicinal effects, ........ one day we will not be allowed to eat garlic anymore, or eggs, or dink milk because it's turned into medicine............................
Most studies are done in Eastern countries - for obvious reasons???!!!"
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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i use the fresh garlic -cloves organic from a health food store. Most article state to stay away from the pre chopped garlic - because it looses it antimicrobial properties
I tend to stick to the small cloves to bypass the big herx gigi
nice article from Dr K
thanks
mag
Posts: 259 | From California | Registered: Mar 2006
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timaca
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Gigi~ Thanks for your info on garlic. Interestingly enough, I have decided to go off the garlic momentarily, to see if by any chance, it is one of the factors prolonging my (10 months) C. difficile infection. I know that it isn't likely, but since garlic can work as an "antibiotic" it "may" be causing some harm to my GI tract. I'm trying a new drug starting today for the C. diff, and cutting out the garlic...maybe it will help.
I was wondering...you stated the the hyperbaric oxygen therapy was not beneficial for you. How many dives did you do...how long were the dives, and what were the depth of the dives?
I have completed 29 of the 40 scheduled dives. Diving at 2.4 ATA, for 90 minutes, with a 10 minute air break. I had a marked herx response. I cannot say that I am "better" yet...but I have learned that it may take up to 2 months after completion of the dives to determine if the dives were helpful. At any rate, I know something is going on due to my herx. I can only hope I see improvement. I am interested in your diving experience.
Timaca
Posts: 2872 | From above 7,000 ft in a pine forest | Registered: Feb 2005
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marniaps
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I've done garlic, hyperbaric and infarred saunas. I think they all did some good but none seemed like the cure all. I think I did 2 rounds of 30 dives and the second time around, I was also doing IM injections of Rocephin. I use a regular sauna at the gym all the time and I have a jacuzzi at home that seem to help too. It is true that what works for some may not work for others. I basically tried everything out there and somehow I am better now. Not completely but significantly. My husband and I seem to think that I've been beating it down over the last few years cause we can't nail down a specific cure. A muscle testing doctor was giving me all sorts of vitamins and herbs and one day said the Lyme was gone just by waving her hand around my body.
She said I should get tested again, which of course I did. My Lyme Test came back negative although my CD57 is still a little low.
So, I think try as much as you can and eventually you'll find what's right for you.
GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
As long as I retained any heavy metals, as long as I still was fighting dental toxins from long removed root canals, getting well for me was a distant dream.
HBO did no more than mobilize heavy metals and really put me into orbit as far as brain fog was concerned. We are told by the people who used to own a clinic with several of the tanks, that results are clearly mixed. A few get better, a few don't.
I myself got worse. I definitely blame it on still being quite heavy metal toxic and HBO does not speed up the removal of the thioethers and mercaptans left behind from root canals and jawbone cavitations caused by root canals.
Most of the people that I have met over the years are mercury toxic plus a few others. To fix that, a good detox program should be followed under the supervision of a knowledgable doctor.
To go into a Sauna while still heavy metal toxic, or without having done any metal detoxing to take off the major load, is not a good thing to do. Further since the heavy metals etc are detoxed throug skin and mouth/breathing in the sauna, sitting in a sauna that is used by many different people is not a good idea. Same for hot tub sharing with others than possibly partner.
Mercury leaves the body in parts in vapor form - you actually breath it to your partner - research available. You mercury can be found in the offices that were formerly used by dentists - on walls and carpets. Am not kidding - but deadly serious. I will not share our sauna with anyone - not even our own adult children. It simply is not a good idea.
So I would urge caution.
I would also caution before making such statements as "she waved her hand over me" -- unless you understand kinesiology and muscle testing, why go to places like that in the first place. That's part of muscle testing. The Lyme can easily not show up at one time during muscle testing, that does not mean it is gone for good. A couple of months later it may show up again at a different layer. Or it may really be gone for good. Most kinesiologists will confirm that. And we all know, if any symptomns remain, there is still some problem somewhere in the body.
If you have not looked for heavy metals and/or detoxed them, that's a good place to look. That is where most people hang up. Lyme gets killed, letting go of heavy metals and other chemical toxins that now are in circulation in your body. They can affect any part of the body. Neuro symptoms can be caused and feel exactly alike by all neurotoxins. Look up the list of neurotoxins and what causes them at www.neuraltherapy.com/neurotoxin elimination protocol. Not garlic or HBO, nor sauna in the very toxic metal state, does much to get it out of the body. All contribute a little, but it takes a lot more to really eliminate the neurotoxins so the body can completely heal.
There is a lot more information on all of these problems on www.klinghardt.org.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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Hyperbaric Oxygen is an adjunctive therapy for lyme. It is very effective if offered properly. And if you have treated any co infections. I have seen great results and can put you in contact with several people that have benefited from it.
I recently offered a presentation at the UHMS conferance on lyme and hyperbaric oxygen. If you email me privately I will send you a copy of it.
The key to success when using HBOT is removing chemical toxicity and treating underlying co infections. HBOT has healing qualities, is bacteriocial and will also boost your immune system.
The problem with it is that it can be cost prohibitive. If you are interested in HBOT contact me as I am in New Jersey and can offer you the sessions quite affordable in comparison to other clinics...
-------------------- Please consult your LLMD before making any changes to your treatment regimen. Posts: 641 | From NJ, USA | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
My husband had 10 hyperbaric sessions in August. We did not know he had lyme at the time. We though we were fighting candida and perhaps some type of infection causing his dermatomyositis. The first few dives he felt good. The last four or so, he started to feel really awful. He asked what was going on and they said the first few were to oxygenate and the last few were focusing more on detoxing. Well, he had a horrible flare. It has been three months and he hasn't gotten back to where he was before the hyperbaric. We had a lot of hope it would help since I had met a woman whose daughter almost died from lupus and credits HBO for saving her.
Posts: 984 | From San Diego | Registered: Nov 2006
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If your husband started to feel awful at the 10th session then her was experiencing a classic HBOT Herx..
I for the most part only take "lymies" and I can tell you that the herx can be seen within as little as five sessions but for most they will start to have them around the 10 to 15 mark.
The first thing I do when someone comes to me for HBOT is explain to them how the herx will manifest.. And that they must PUSH through to the end of the sessions (40)
If they can not see it through to the end then they will not see any benefits at all.
I hope that this is of help to you. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions.
Blessings,
Julia
-------------------- Please consult your LLMD before making any changes to your treatment regimen. Posts: 641 | From NJ, USA | Registered: Oct 2001
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timaca
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I just finished dive 37. I am pushing through to 40..thanks for the encouragement, Julia.
Timaca
Posts: 2872 | From above 7,000 ft in a pine forest | Registered: Feb 2005
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WildCondor
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All of the things you mentioned can help Lyme disease. I have my own FIR sauna, and it helps clear toxins. I have done a ton of hyperbaric treatments too and it was a tremendous help to my progress with Lyme disease. I did HBO while on IV and oral antibiotics, and I have remained well enough from it to be off antibiotics for 2 years and back to a normal life again. Garlic is used as part of Chinese medicine to help attack the Lyme, and it is also very good for yeast. So..all of them work well!
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I'm glad that you are almost at the 40 mark. Please let me know how you've done.
Blessings,
Julia
-------------------- Please consult your LLMD before making any changes to your treatment regimen. Posts: 641 | From NJ, USA | Registered: Oct 2001
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timaca
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HI Julia~ Thanks for my interest. I will post my progress here so others can read my report and your response.
I have finished 37 of my 40 dives. Hopefully, I will finish the last 3 dives next week before Thanksgiving.
My dives are at 2.4 ATA for 90 minutes with a 10 minute air break in the middle of that time.
I did have a herx on day 12 after starting the dives. This consisted of extreme fatigue (hard to get out of bed or stay out of bed); headache for the entire day, right knee pain, extremely sore lower back as well as back muscles; and chills. The day before and the day after were relatively OK days (for having lyme).
So, I felt encouraged that the HBOT was doing something!
My friend who dives with me seems to always have reactions (skin breakouts and nerve burning)either while the dive is occuring or shortly thereafter.
I did, just once, have a breakout in the hive type rash that she gets. That occured 2 weeks ago. My friend was happy that I had joined her "rash club."
I had hoped to see improvement as the dives went on. For the most part, this has not been the case.
I do seem to be improved in my stamina. I can stand for songs at church most weeks, and seem to be able to do mild exercise without tiring so easily. I'm also not SO wiped out after the dives. This seems to be my only notable improvement thus far.
My muscles, joints and nerves are all worse. I also feel like I have more ataxia (feel awkward walking).
I don't know if this is toxin build-up that will clear as the dives end, or if my lyme (or coinfections) are getting worse. Or if I have heavy metal toxicity (although testing for that through normal labs have always been normal). I guess time will tell.
Any input you have would be appreciated. I have so appreciated your support over the last several months.
Timaca
Posts: 2872 | From above 7,000 ft in a pine forest | Registered: Feb 2005
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The rash is something that I have seen a bit. I have a nice lyme rash pic that I could send you. It appeared the day following HBOT. She has a long term history of lyme as well.
I believe it to be the result of endotoxin release but it's just my guess.
Besl Regards,
Julia
-------------------- Please consult your LLMD before making any changes to your treatment regimen. Posts: 641 | From NJ, USA | Registered: Oct 2001
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Good job and based on my experieince with doing that many dives in a short time frame you may not feel the difference at all unitl MONTHS later.
That is what happened to me - I herxed every single day for months after (feeling like I was going to die) but then one day I just got better.
It came on slow - allowing me to have 2 good days in a row and then 3 and then 4 and suddenly there I was feeling better.
Of course this all went along with staying on the diet and taking things to treat the yeast.
Best of luck to you.
Posts: 374 | From NJ | Registered: Aug 2006
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timaca
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Thanks everyone, for your replies...and HAPPY THANKSGIVING to you all!
I finished dive 40 yesterday, so this is truly a day of thanks for me. I am technically done with my dives.
Yes, julia, I'd love to see a photo of that rash. Please post it here, or e-mail me (you have my address).
Thanks, ladylee, for your encouraging words as well. My vision is horrible (I keep having to lean forward to read my computer screen as I type) ...but poor vision comes along with the dives.
I do look forward to my vision returning to normal. I think I will take at least a 6 week to 2 month break from the hyperbaric and see where I am.
I will also be coming off the C. difficile medicine and see if that is gone.
I know I had a herx to the hyperbaric...that was distictive at 12 days after starting the therapy... so I know it was doing something.
But, I am not noticibly better at this point in time (as I had hoped to be).
I may, after 6-8 weeks, do another 4 dives, and see if I get another herx.
We'll see. Any further input is appreciated.
Timaca
Posts: 2872 | From above 7,000 ft in a pine forest | Registered: Feb 2005
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My first round of dives were 21 over a 2 week period. Back to Back.
Did not notice a difference towards good health until 3 months AFTER treatments with no other treatments inbetween.
I started herxing on day one in the chamber and I herxed all the way thru the sessions until I was done with the treatments and then herxed even more once the treatments stopped and then finally on to my SUDDEN day of awakening as I call it.
My point don't expect to see/ feel to much to soon after the treatments allow it time because I believe in time and with time you will notice an improvement!
Posts: 374 | From NJ | Registered: Aug 2006
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I have tried to post it but I haven't figured out how to upload it to this site...
Blessings,
Julia
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But in terms of garlic, I bow down to its effectiveness as a yeast-killer and natural antibiotic.![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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