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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » changed the topic to a Question about herxes

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Author Topic: changed the topic to a Question about herxes
KENNEDY
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I Also was about to post a question similar to hiker53. Only I'm not so much wondering if "I'm over Lyme", because who knows, there's no such test to determine that but was wondering what's next?


Is the aches and pains I'm feeling some days due to being 53 years old, out of shape and 10lbs, 20lbs,
OKAY FINE.....30lbs overweight? Actually I believe it's 29 1/2, but whose counting.

My last appointment with my new LLMD was on Dec. 7th and at that time I felt like my old self, I felt like a million bucks, and I had been feeling like that for a few weeks.

He had told me the results of bloodtests I had done right before Thanksgiving and once again I was tested for co-infections and none showed up. He said my C6 Peptide dropped from 5.68 to 1.96 and told me "we're not out of the woods yet, but we're headed that way".

So anyway he said being that I was doing good I was to drop my doxycycline dosage from 2 caps a day to just 1 for the month of Jan. and see where we are after doing that and if I still go symptom free I don't even have to come back.

Okay now I'll tell you what I did. Stupid or not, I decided to up my dosage. And I decided to do that because before my first LLMD retired, at my last visit with him that was the dosage he told me to take until the end of this year, so since I had the extra Doxy I decided to take that dosage.

I don't like doxy anyway and I found I was more nauseous on that dosage and so I only did it for 3 days, but during that time I noticed a pain in my shoulder blade that I had in the beginning of all this. So I was wondering if that's still Lyme and the upped dosage may have been the reason for it showing up again or is it because I'm 53, out of shape and overweight 29 1/2 lbs?

As much as I'd like to get off the medication, I'm a little worried about it. Maybe I should start taking herbs now? Any suggestions? I'm interested in what you would do if you were in my situation.

I value your opinions and thank you for all your help that got me to where I am now.

And about that 29 1/2 lbs. any suggestions about that, other than to stop eating, cause that's not gonna happen.

And to add to this topic, Can you herx if your dosage was lowered by half
or do you only herx if you up the dosage or change to a new antibiotic or treatment?
thanks for any

[ 11. January 2007, 11:51 PM: Message edited by: KENNEDY ]

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Carol in PA
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Kennedy,
About the pain in your shoulder blade, did it stop when you lowered the dosage of doxy?

If so, then your little experiment might have caused a herx.

Carol

p.s. The weight gain is probably metabolic.

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KENNEDY
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Hi Carol,
that's what I was thinking too, that it might have been a herx.

But I never dropped the dosage from 1- 100mg cap twice a day to just 1 cap a day, as he prescribed.

I always thought from reading all the posts on lymenet about recommended dosages that what I was taking was never enough but

when I had gone back after Thanksgiving and my results of the C6 Peptide was showing improvement, I just stayed on the dose I had been on.

But I figured that since I had the extra doxy to last until the end of the month I would try the dosage 2-100mg caps twice a day,

because unlike pain pills you don't have to be weaned off of a antibiotic. So when I upped the dosage, that's when the pain in my shoulder blade started again.

So I'm thinking if that was a herx, then I should'nt be going off the antibiotic yet. Would that be the right assumption? And again if this was a herx I should stay on the antibiotic for another 3 months. That's my thinking.

And about the weight gain, I was doing okay until my mother-in-law gave me the recipe for her apple pie and pumpkin custard pie. I definetly fell off the wagon during the holidays.

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KENNEDY
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UP
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Lisianthus
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Hi Kennedy,

To me (not a doc) it sounds like a herx. My mother, father, husband (all have Bb) get that same shoulder blade pain that you descibe when they take their abx.

My mother went through the worst of it, and used to go to physical therapy for that pain. But when she found out that she had lyme and started taking abx it eventually went away. But the pain did get worse on the days she took the abx.

As far as the weight, I've lost 58lbs since I started following the yeast diet. I still have 25lbs to go, although I feel really good where I'm at.

The one thing that helped me loose the weight was caprylic acid, I took it for a year before I started abx. I still take and other yeast fighters and I am still on the downward trend. But I am loosing it slower now (being on abx)

And I try and exercise at least once or twice a week(I know its not much) but anything helps.

Good luck,
Lisi

[ 15. January 2007, 12:15 AM: Message edited by: Lisianthus ]

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johnlyme1
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Hey Kennedey,

Sounds like a herx to me also. I would start to chart out on a calender the date that you had this. If you are as far along as it seems to kicking this bug, it might be interesting to see what happens 28 days from this last herxing.

My lyme cycle is like clockwork now, every 28 day I get a 4 to 5 day window of mild symptoms and I do bump up my ABX during this time.

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KENNEDY
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And to add to this topic, Can you herx if your dosage was lowered by half?
Or do you only herx if you up the dosage or change to a new antibiotic or alternative treatment?

The paragraph below in quotes, I'm sure many will reconize is from Dr. Burranscano's treatment guidelines, and

according to that paragraph, since I've never taken Doxycycline in a higher dose than 1- 100mg twice daily, I've never had a high enough dose to do much good.
So last week when I upped the dose of doxy from 200 mgs a day to 400, that is what probably caused a herx. Am I getting that right?

quote:

There are four types of antibiotics in general use for Bb treatment.

The tetracyclines, including doxycycline and minocycline, are bacteriostatic unless given in high doses.
If high blood levels are not attained, treatment failures in early and late disease are common. However, these high doses can be difficult to tolerate. For example, doxycycline can be very effective but only if adequate blood levels are achieved either by high oral doses ( 300 to 600 mg. daily ) or by parenteral administration.
quote:

I just didn't see my LLMD's point in dropping the dosage from 200mg daily to 100 daily. Unless you can herx just by decreasing the dosage and that might have been what he wanted to see if it happened or not.

Seeing that the pain in my shoulder blade returned, I guess the smart thing to do is to stay on doxy at a higher dose /or change to a different antibiotic for another 2 to 3 months.

Hope my Dr. goes along with that. I just don't want to lose the progress already made by going off antibiotics too soon.

Is what I'm saying making sense?
thanks for helping me make sense of this.

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KENNEDY
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Bumping up to see if anyone can comment on medication / herx question.
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Lisianthus
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Hi Kennedy,

I wanted to comment on your question about herxing on half the dose.....


When I first started abx my LLMD started me on 50mg of Mino a week, and I herxed really bad on that low dose. I couldn't get out of bed, slept for 12-15 hours a day, was in severe pain, and felt like I was run over by a truck.


My LLMD is oone of those who believes you don't have to herx to death to get better. He always told me if it was too bad to cut it back even lower.


It is not nearly that bad now (and I am on a higher dose) Everyone is different.

Your LLMD may have lowered your dose to give you a break and then ramp up when your body can take it.

Good Luck, and I hope it has gotten better.
Lisi

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KENNEDY
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Thanks everyone for your thoughts on this.
I was suppose to go off antibiotics the end of this month. But my gut feeling, (and my shoulder blade) tells me it's too soon and I don't want to lose any progress I made by going off too soon.

Hopefully my doc will agree. My next appointment is Jan.29th.

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