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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » viral herx?

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Author Topic: viral herx?
5dana8
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Is there such a thing as a viral herxheimer?

I always thought lyme, syphillus and maybe yeast where among the few things that would creat a herx. I have searched here & googled it but found no answers.

Thanks a head of time for any feedback.

Blessings [Smile]
Dana

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5dana8

Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kendrick
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I don't think virus's release toxins.
That would be pretty scary if they did, because they are not curable and already make us terribly sick to begin with.
Herx's are usually from toxins released as Bacteria is killed off.
You do get a cytokine response to fighting off a virus, which is why you get a fever... but I don't think this what herx is meant to be.

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5dana8
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Thanks kendrick

thought maybe this might be the case, but want to know for sure.

I am herxing BIG time from a natural combo that am taking for a possible viral complication. I am getting some really for me, classic herx reactions -head pressure,restless leggs ect.. could it possibly be hitting some of the lyme as well?

or it is over stimulating my immune system/responce. If this last is the case I have to stop asap

I am taking Larix & Takuna. The herxing started the next day I took it.

Thanks again for the info

Blessings [Smile]
Dana

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5dana8

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trueblue
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I'm never sure... Is the herx from the toxins released or from the die-off... (debris that then has to be cleared out?)

I always assumed die-off. Obviously, have no medical background and forget what I read, far too often.

By the same token, Babs supposedly doesn't produce herxes but there has been a dramatic increase in rotating symptoms since starting treatment. I'm not sure if it's semantics but something definately happens.


I'm curious about the experience of people who have taken anti-virals. (Deciding whether to embark on a trial, shortly.)

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Annxyz
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I believe viruses can cause herxheimers . There have been studies of CFIDS patients taking an antiviral drug called VALCYTE , which is POTENT
and rather new. The first three weeks of the study , everyone felt more sick and fluish from the VIRAL die off according to the studies I read on immune support ( com) .

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ANNXYZ

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Annxyz
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Also , larix is the same thing ( just about) as Ambrotose . And yes IT INCREASES WHITECELL counts according to goosd studies ( go to the immunesupport.com library and look up
"glyconutrients" ) . The studies found an increase ( significant ) of NK cell activity .

I can only take 1/4 tsp of ambrotose if I want to be able to stand the next day . It is STRONG , esp combined with ABX or other therapies .

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ANNXYZ

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5dana8
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Thanks True [Smile]

That's a very good point about the babs TX and having such a herx or symptoms getting worse. Somethings going on...My initial thought was maybe the babs meds could be hitting the lyme as well? But now not sure at all. As you said a die off could be a die off...

Thanks again for your thoughts

Thanks Annxyz for your feedback [Smile]
Not much info I could find on larix or takuna so I really appreciate the link to the immune site.

Two thoughts come to mind...maybe the larix is over stimualtng my immune sytem & causing some real problems. From the little info I could gather the takuna is an herb from the bark of a Ceropia Strigosa tree in South America. And works similar to Echinacea.

Or- the stimulation of NK cells are increased and going after the lyme as well as possibly some virus's?

Not real sure at this point but do know my stomach is trashing again worse & I have to pull out of this one week treatment for now. Also the combination of the 2 was just making me too sick. Couldn't take it any more . So a break for now.

May take 1 week off & then try again at a lower dose of the larix if my stomach gets back on line again.

Thanks again for all your help!!

Blessings [Smile]
Dana

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5dana8

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Annxyz
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I suspect the larix is firing up your white cells and they are doing their job . That never feels good !
The ambrotose to me is extremely powerful.

My problem with the nutramedix products is the abysmal lack of literature to support their claims. It almost seems shady .

Have you heard of anyone having success with the tekuna? What did it do for them?

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ANNXYZ

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5dana8
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Hi Annxyz

thanks for the tip on the ambrotose being similar in nature to the larix.

I do think its possible the white blood cells are fired up and I think it also possible that it maybe hitting some of the lyme as well as the virus's.

I do have serious concerns about firing up my white cells too much. Because in lyme I have read that an over stimulated immune isn't always a good thing. And I worry about that. I want my immune system to be strong but not over stimulated if I am making any sense.

The lack of information on some of the Nutamedix products are worrisome. I feel like I am in uncharted waters.

I am going by the Cowden protocal-which uses alot of nutamedix products. Here's the link...scroll down to the bottom & thats where the virus protocal is located. They also have protocols on ALOT disease's- makes me wonder:

www.bionatus.com/nutramedix/pdfs/protocols.pdf

Blessings [Smile]
Dana

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5dana8

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Annxyz
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They make big claims about their ( pricy ) products , but have almost nothing that substantiates the claims.

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ANNXYZ

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serendipity
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Hi Dana,
I did a similar protocal and did not have a herx.

I was muscle tested for doses of both the Takuna and Larix- for both effectiveness and toleratbility. I have found this to be helpful before starting any medication.

I don't see why you can't have a herxheimer, or in a broader sense healing crisis, when killing off viruses. As the body kills off microbes of any types, the lymphatics, kidneys and liver need to move the debris out. If the lymphatics or othe detox organs get overloaded, I would assume that you would feel ill.

No scientific studies, just my thoughts.

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