heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
hi everyone,
my friend recently had what she thought was a lyme scare, but apparently it turned out to be poison oak. i'm posting about this here because, well, due to what i went through i'm eternally paranoid, and i care about her a lot and don't want her to suffer through even a fraction of what i did.
(i thought i'd run this by the group before i advise her to get a second opinion. as i'm sure you all understand i tend to see lyme everywhere now, and i want to make sure i'm not overreacting.)
long story short, my friend was running around the california hills a few weeks ago (i'm assuming around the bay area? though i'm not exactly sure - she's a touring musician and i can never keep track of where she is), and, as is the custom, used the woods as a makeshift bathroom. continued in her words:
"A day later I had this big spot on my...BUM and I felt flu-ish. It got bigger as the day went on and started to look like a big 'ol bullseye. I called my friend who's a doctor and she put me on that antibiotic right away. BUT it started to spread...AND ITCH LIKE A ****. Turned into the worst case of poison oak of my life and I took prednisone for a week for it. Made me crazy (er) but it helped a lot. Almost all gone now and thank god it wasn't the dreaded L."
so, does this sound suspicious to anyone else? if it was lyme, though, prednisone would've made it worse, not better, right? and do lyme rashes ever itch that badly, or spread so quickly (i never had a rash so i really have no idea)? i just saw her tonight and she seems perfectly fine now.. we didn't get much of a chance to talk but i asked her how she knew it was poison oak and she said something about it looking/acting just like a previous case of poison oak, only worse.
shazdancer
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1436
posted
Hmm, probably the only time I have ever said this...
I wish she had taken a picture of her BUM!
At least then a Lyme doc could have evaluated what the rash looked like.
That said, I think it is hard to tell what your friend had. But here's a comparison of the two rashes...
-- EM rashes usually expand evenly. Poison oak/poison ivy rashes don't expand, but they can take a few days to appear, so they look like they are spreading. They "spread" unevenly.
-- Both rashes may itch, though maybe those who have had both rashes can speak to whether one is worse than the other. My initial symptom was a red, swollen hand. The redness/swelling expanded, but did not itch. I know experiences on this vary widely.
-- Both may respond to steroid therapy (i.e. prednisone). The danger of using steroids with Lyme is that steroids suppress the immune system, so even though it may seem to help at first, it may allow the bacteria to disseminate throughout the body to cause trouble later on (which is what happened to me).
Hope that helps you,
Shaz
Posts: 1558 | From the Berkshires | Registered: Jul 2001
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David95928
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3521
posted
I live in the same region and there is LOTS of poison oak. I've had it systemicallly when I was actually scratched with it. The response to exposure was swift. It itched. It did not respond to antibiotics. It did respond to prednizone. It soundl like poison oak to me.
-------------------- Dave Posts: 2034 | From CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
hmm. thanks for the responses everyone. now i'm not sure whether i should be concerned or not.
CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
Sounds like Poison Oak to me!!! Lots of it in CA!!!! 2 things-
1. Poison oak soap!!! Helps clean area and stops it from spreading!!
2. I forget it's name but there is this stuff that if you put it on right away after exposure it can stop eruption!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is called... (someone will know)!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
thanks.
so most people think it sounds like poison oak and i shouldn't be too concerned? if anyone else has any other thoughts, please let me know!
posted
I've had poison oak several times and it never looked like a bull's eye ... however, I think there are different strains of poison oak here than in CA.
Personally, I'd want to be tested. Actually, after suffering with this, I would probably take the antibiotics to be safe, but that's just me. If it looked like a bull's eye, how could she know the difference. Did it itch like poison oak? I've never heard about a bull's eye rash itching.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Opinions are pretty evenly divided on the issue, but in my opinion, Lyme should not be ruled out yet.
Betty & Shaz have already given some of the points I considered important, so I won't repeat.
If the wooded area has lots of poison oak, it's likely that it is also good habitat for ticks.
Two things really jumped out when I read what your friend said about her experience -
1. "had this big spot...and I felt flu-ish" doesn't sound like poison oak, but IS typical of early Lyme disease.
2. "It (spot) got bigger as the day went on & started to look like a big 'ol bullseye." A bullseye rash is diagnostic for Lyme. The cases of poison oak & poison ivy I've seen do not fit this description.
I think it would be very important to know what treatment your friend received - 1. What antibiotic? 2. How long did she take it? 3. What dose per day?
If she received a strong enough dose for a long enough time, that should take care of the problem. But the fact she was given an antibiotic does NOT mean that it was adequate treatment!!!
Unfortunately, the odds are not in favor of her receiving adequate treatment.
IF she has LD & did not get enough abx, then when symptoms flare up at some time in the future, she will probably NOT consider a recurrence of Lyme & the problem will not be diagnosed & treated correctly.
About 25 or 30 years ago, I removed a tiny tick that was attached no more than 4 or 5 hours. The only symptom I had at that time was a rather small bullseye rash.....NO other symptoms for about 5 or 10 years. The rash itched & gradually disappeared. For years, the area continued to itch some after the rash was gone If only I had known about Lyme at that time & received adequate treatment!!
We're not even addressing the possibility of other TBDs (Tick-Borne Diseases) like Babesiosis, Ehrlichiosis, Bartonella, etc.
The earlier LD is diagnosed & treated, the better the results. I hope that she will be tested by IGeneX as soon as possible.
Invite your friend to join the LymeNet group. She is truly blessed to have you so concerned about her health.
Please let us know what she decides. We care!!
Posts: 4638 | From South Carolina | Registered: Mar 2001
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heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
cbb, thanks so much for your in-depth response. maybe i'll just direct her to this thread so she can read it and decide what she thinks for herself.
sixgoofykids, yeah, she said the rash itched A LOT. it also spread everywhere, and i think continued itching until it finally went away after the prednisone treatment.
heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
also, i've been looking at poison oak rashes via google images.. and would a lyme rash erupt or be all oozing and pus-y (for lack of a better description) like poison oak? and would it spread all over the place, indiscriminately, without holding any sort of bullseye or circular-type shape? i don't think i've ever heard of an EM rash acting this way.. ??
and what about the quick development of the rash (the next day)? i read somewhere that EM rashes don't usually appear until at least 3 days after the bite, but who knows if that info was written by a member of the dreaded Steere, et al posse or not (and cbb, you said you noticed a rash developing only four or five hours after tick attachment..).
also, the EXTREME itching my friend described seems uncharacteristic of a lyme rash. but i know lyme rashes vary so much - that's why i'm still a bit concerned, especially because her rash started as a bullseye.
Geneal
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10375
posted
Maybe it's both.
Is it possible she got bit by a tick and exposed herself to poison oak?
After Hurricane Katrina and living outside in the country for 34 days I came down with Ring worm.
Lovely, huh?
It was everywhere on me. As I look back now, I wonder if some of those "rings" could have been a bullseye rash, as not all of them itched.
Probably never know for sure.
Maybe I was exposed to both at the same time.
Just a thought.
Hugs,
Geneal
Posts: 6250 | From Louisiana | Registered: Oct 2006
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heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
hi everyone,
i directed my friend over to this thread and she thinks you are all wonderful and sweet for being so concerned and helpful. so, a big thank you from both me and her.
after getting a few more details from her, it turns out that her rash really does seem like it was poison oak, and not lyme. it spread unevenly and randomly - for instance, she noticed some random stray bumps on her neck and on one finger (which makes it seem really likely that she touched the poison oak oil and spread it herself) - and it itched like CRAZY.
she also said she didn't notice any sort of real bite mark or center to the rash, even when it started out looking like a bullseye.
she was prescribed abx (i'm assuming doxy, though not sure of the dosage) and took them for two days, and after no response at all she went to the ER where she was prescribed the prednisone. after taking that for a week she's fine now and she's not at all worried about lyme anymore.. so it was just me being a paranoid overprotective friend.
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