quote:The photos are a couple of messages down. They aren't perfect or consistent from one to another, and it has been noted that some of the red blood cells are contorted into odd shapes in some of them. There is also some babesia visible if you look closely.
These photos were taken nearly a year ago at the end of a year and a half of antibiotic therapy. The thing that is a little scary is the sheer number of these cyst forms despite the usual cyst busters like Flagyl.
I also had alot of pain at that time. The lower back pain was very bad, but there was also knee joint and foot pain. So, I was very interested in ANYTHING that made that feel better.
Most are quick to assume that things they are not personally familiar are experimental and have not been fully studied. Especially things like this involving lots of electricity.
Would it interest you to know that this particular type of therapy has been very extensively studied the world over since its invention in 1928?
...That over 750 articles and studies were published just from its invention in 1928 and 1936, when a medical text I am reading was published?
Or that it was used extensively by mainstream medicine not only for physical therapy, but to treat a number of infectuous diseases ranging from TB to gonococcal arthritis?
These uses were replaced for the AMA doctors by antibiotics once they became available, but the uses for physical therapy and to promote would healing are still approved.
What if I were to tell you that the heart and soul of one of the pictured devices is an FDA approved Short Wave physical therapy machine from a major medical manufacturer?
Rife was trying to cure cancer, not Lyme Disease. While studying what Rife was working on, these humble machines that deleloped along side him and eventually became part of mainstream medicine became of interest.
We as Lymies suffer many of the pain and arthritis problems that these medical diathermy machines were designed to treat. While they were not intended to target specific microbes as in Rife's work, what they do seems of tremendous value in itself.
The basic effect is to cause deep gentle warmth, increased blood circulation in the area, a stimulatimg effect on the immune cells in the area and healing. (These are the FDA recognized effects)
Pulsing a Shortwave Diathermy Machine is also not experimental. Most of the moderm machines are in fact pulsed at several fixed rates for different effects. The FDA does not object if a Diathermy is pulsed, just so long as what they consider unsubstantiated medical claims are not made.
These include the Magnatherm ($30,000),
models by Siemens,
one of the less expensive portable units by Mettler, and probably others. You may know a chiropractor that has one, or even find them in a fitness center.
The experimental thing here is using a wide range of pulse frequencies and watching for effects on target pathogens. The AMA and FDA do not approve of that use... treating infections.
Machines of this type can cause injury if safety procedures are not followed, and are generally intended for use by trained therapists, just as an FYI.
Also, just in case any are adventurous.... Antiques will show up on eBay now and then. They usually lack critical safety considerations in their design that make them unsuitable for actual use. Not to mention deterioration due to age and the fact that there may be over 2,000 volts inside. That is potentially lethal if someone were to get shocked messing around inside one. Don't.
Besides they will cause horrible TV interference as most were not even shielded.
I'll tell you the good news and the bad about what this all seems to be able to accomplish later.
[ 09. April 2007, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: James H ]
Posts: 714 | From San Antonio TX | Registered: Oct 2004
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At the same time, I'm not sure it's a good thing to see the RBC's becoming misshapened as in the last two pictures you posted. One of my reservations about rife is not knowing how it's impacting our own flesh.
That being said, I want to make it clear that I myself have rifed in the past, and plan to do so again in the future. However, this is one of the reasons rife isn't FDA approved. We really have no hard evidence as to long term side effects.
Posts: 449 | From Pasadena, CA, usa | Registered: Aug 2005
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Greatcod
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Its not scaring me, but that third photo, those other cells looked severely impacted too. That someone is at least trying to do what Rife tried to do is good, especially if it applies to Lyme--Rife never heard of Bb.
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CaliforniaLyme
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I never said nor would want you to delete the thread!!!!!!!!!! I like your photos!!!! And I always find what you have to say honest and interesting!!! Seriously!!!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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sparkle7
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Hi James H-
Where might someone find a machine like the one you have a photo of? Why do you think the commercially available Rife Machines are no good? Did you feel any better after the treatment(s)? Please don't remove the thread. It's important for us to know this info to decide on what type of treatment we want & what the facts are.
Do you have any info about the Bob Beck's machines vs. Rife machines for Lyme?
Thank you!
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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(This is the original post and was moved from top of thread.)
I've been hesitant to post this as I am still not quite sure how to interpret some of it myself. So, please just view it as some interesting observations with no particular claims being made as to the importance of any of this.
This is a photo of a live blood sample showing quite a few of the cell wall deficient, or 'L', or spheroplast forms of bacteria. After we have been treated for awhile with ABX these are common, though you hope not to see quite so many.
The photos are from an American Optical 10 series using darkfield at 1,000x.
The smaller, more 'fuzzy' forms are mostly platelets. The large spherical objects are red blood cells, which look normal. The small very spherical objects containing mostly white granules and sometimes snake like forms are the 'L' forms.
This is a wet mount of a drop of finger blood before anything was done, showing that there were a large number of the spheroplasts, (cyst forms), and that they were not clumping together.
(It is of an area of the slide that didn't happen to have many blood cells. Don't try to make any comparison wuth the other slides in this regard.)
Using an experimental instrument similar to this:
Which is roughly equivalent to a physical therapy diathermy you might find in a chiropractors office, but can be pulsed at any desired frequency within certain physical limits.
Here are photos from a sequence of peripheral blood samples spaced over several hours.
This is a photo that was taken a few hours after running the machine through a range of about 380,000hz through 400,000hz. When some mild herxheimer effects were noticed, I took another sample and it had areas that looked like this...
Notice how the spheroplasts have begun clumping together. I theorize that antibodies are attaching and causing this.
A few hours later much larger clumps can be found, whith indicidual spheroplasts still discernable, but also some platelets visible in the mix. Notice the neutrophil.
Hours later, on another fresh sample, clumps could still be found, but they were smaller, more scarce, and individual spheroplasts were not discernable. They just looked like granular 'stuff'.
And finally, some debris that may have been the clumps is all that could be seen. Notice the lack of the spheroplasts compared to the first photo.
Is this the elusive Rife effect? I am not sure. It is interesting.
Just to be clear to everyone, I am not aware that ANY of the things sold as Rife Machines will do this.
Unless your Rife machine contains parts that look like these... (Those tubes are nearly a foot tall, for prespective.)
...I am quite positive your results will vary.
Obviously this is not anything that could ever see commercial production, but I think it shows there are some areas for research.
The carrier frequency is 27.12mhz, and it was pulsed at approximately 382,000khz in this instance.
[ 08. April 2007, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: James H ]
Posts: 714 | From San Antonio TX | Registered: Oct 2004
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treepatrol
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Did you build that RIFE machine James?
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
This may be a little wierd, but I ran across this description of an Electro Cell Manipulation Machine, manufactured by a well established medical lab supplier. In any case, below is an explanation of the machine's function. I gather that it operates to create cell fusion on a small scale. Important to me me is that it involves the application of electrical energy to biology, so the Rife's concept are not widly far fetched, as far as I had earlier thought. Limited frequencies, very much lower AC voltage.
The ECM 2001 is a versatile electro cell manipulation instrument. It generates an AC waveform for benign dielectrophoretic alignment of cells. With only microsecond switch-over time from AC to DC, efficient fusion can take place. After fusion AC re-application keeps cells together for the rounding off process. The DC square pulse section can be used as a stand alone powerful electroporation system with a wide range of voltages and pulse lengths capable of operating into low impedance loads. Somatic cell nuclear transfer technique is applicable for the production of stem cells. The nuclear transfer between an oocyte and a donor cell is accomplished by cell fusion using electrofusion technique. An electrical pulse is applied thus fusing the oocyte and the donor cell. Resulting blastocyst can be further modified to produce immunologically compatible stem cells. Also called the Roslin Technique, it is applicable for use on a variety of animal cells.
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That one is a laboratory device, and an interesting application at that.
Actually there are all kinds of electrotherapy and electromedical applications approved and in widespread use today. More than you would think and growing all the time.
There are also 'industrial' applications that parallel what might be used medically, for things such as food safety.
All contribute to a vast amount of knowledge about the uses, effects, and safety considerations.
The only time the FDA or AMA get bent out of shape is when somebody makes a medical claim for a device that seems to infringe on the pharmaceutical solutions, or is clearly unsubstantiated.
I'm busy with work right now, but I will explain later what this setup seemed to be able to do and not do for me.
Posts: 714 | From San Antonio TX | Registered: Oct 2004
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I'm glad you asked. That is the back of an approved physical therapy diathermy machine made by R.A. Fischer & Co. I would guess in the late 1950's by the construction.
The circuit is push-pull Triode TNT (Tuned plate, Not Tuned grid), which was used in nearly all of these up until the modern ones which used a crystal oscillator and pentode sweep tubes. Probably because the FDA approval was gotten with that circuit and nobody wanted to go through that process again.
Here's the circuit for the older Fischer machine pictured above...
And a view of the back...
The newer one you asked about operates on the 27.12mhz ISM band, which allows unlimited output for non-communication purposes such as diathermy and welding. In practice they still try very hard to keep it politely contained. Since the output is balanced and tuned to a low impedance load across it, the tendancy to 'broadcast' is less that one would expect... if the machine is well built.
If it were a communications device, it probably would be capable of near 1kw. The R.A Fischer machines were always very overbuilt.
In this case those are 810 triodes replacing the original HF-100's which would have to be stolen from a museum now. They barely have to get warm doing what it asks of them.
In this application the 'load' is somebody's sore back or arthritic knee, and the intended result is pleasant and subtle warmth, not well cooked! One like this would be used in a chiropractor's office probably.
Some of them are probably still in service... well made ones can have an incredibly long service life.
The data plate does not list the output in watts. I would guess there is about 250 watts at the plate circuit in normal use.
There are several fail safe coupling steps between the plates and the patient to prevent any remote possibility of contact with plate voltage despite multiple component failures.
There is also a tuned coupling circuit to finely adjust the desired amount of energy to the area being treated. At this point the power would be greatly reduced, but is not stated in watts.
Either insulated 'condenser pads' or induction are used to couple the energy to the area being treated. Both are very effective, but have different effects.
That is the approved use for physical therapy on injured or inflamed tissues or joints.
The photographed effect is from pulse modulating it at particular rate. I don't think this effect could be obtained from the low powered Rife gizmos that are common. Of course I haven't bothered testing them either.
The observed Rife effect is interesting and encouraging, but I am not yet sure just how much it can do. This stuff seems to have an uncanny ability to survive its own death.
The physical therapy effects of plain old diathermy on the pain are wonderful though.
[ 08. April 2007, 10:38 PM: Message edited by: James H ]
Posts: 714 | From San Antonio TX | Registered: Oct 2004
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No, unfortunately this is not something that is available from any source. It was built from vintage equipment that is in itself rarer than hen's teeth. Even more so are are people that understand the electronics of that era and can work with them without electrocuting anybody.
The only thing that can immediately be put to use is the suggestion that plain old physical therapy diathermy may be very helpful for the arthritic effects of Lyme. It made the pain go away within about a week, even before anything remotely resembling a Rife machine was made out of it. It has kept it away for a year now.
Someone that has a chiropractor with a diathermy might want to try it for a week and see if it helps them.
And I didn't say that other people's rife gizmo's were no good. Their users can judge them. Just that none I am aware of have ever demonstrated an effect like that and probably cannot.
Actually, that thing is not a real 'Rife' machine either. It is just a different form of 'Not Rife' machine employing a more mainstream and higher powered ancient technology.
Posts: 714 | From San Antonio TX | Registered: Oct 2004
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James H, What an awesome post!! It continues to amaze me how little we human understand the effects EM fields have on the body. I am glad (and grateful) you are taking the time to share with us JoeHam, I always knew you were very knowledgeable, but just being able to describe those old components is incredable!
Can we do the same with the modern equavalents?
Thanks, Ernie
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treepatrol
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What bothered me about Rife machine was all the different frequencies that people were are useing some may be very detrimental to human cells. I like James that you are testing this on the blood.
Because when you find the right frequency that kills sprirochetes then you can study its effects on human cells.
Tweak it until it kills borrelia and not human cells if this is possible.
Keep after it.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
quote:Originally posted by treepatrol: What bothered me about Rife machine was all the different frequencies that people were are useing some may be very detrimental to human cells.
Tree,
I'm glad you brought that up. One difficulty with all this has been separating the fact from the folklore and just plain old hype.
Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I haven't seen evidence of anything, friend or foe, being killed directly by this technique.
When you go to the websites of various purveyors of Rife gizmos, do you see videos of their proprietary device blowing Staph aureus apart? Nope. Just a bunch of testimonials and old pictures of Rife himself, implying that their gizmo is just the same as his, only better.
The closest you will find are videos of a harmless one celled pond critter called a Paramecium being electrocuted for crimes he didn't commit.
You will find frequencies listed with digital precision for everything from your aura being out of whack to your cat having fleas.
How did they come up with that stuff? The latter is easy. You just turn the knob slowly until Fluffy stops scratching.
I believe Rife had found ways of actually killing certain pathogens (but not others) with his 1930's machines. One 'test' of an operating machine mentioned in surviving documents was the ability to kill a culture dish of a certain Staph. from across a room.
However, I don't think Rife himself fully understood the mechanism at work. Why? In his later life an attempt was made to revive his work, resulting in a modernized and improved version they called the AZ-58.
It was smaller, more refined and had less power. (The claim is always made that very little power is needed, just the 'perfect frequency'.)
It had some helpful effects, like the 'Rife machines' today, but they couldn't get it to kill anything. A certain Dr. Stafford who was enthusiastically testing it even set up a demonstration with a bunch of Doctors in a hospital... with a Staph culture to kill before their eyes... and the thing had no effect.
There appear to have been other aspects of those early machines, with long unshielded wires running all over the lab carrying high voltages and radiating RF energy, that were lost in the more refined versions. And now that knowledge is lost too, because nobody was even paying attention to those other factors.
I think what we are seeing in the above photos is not the machine killing anything. I think it is in some way just enabling the immune system to get past a defense of the cyst form. Maybe by altering the surface charge momentarily, or maybe by exposing some antigens on their surface.
It seems to be a gradual process taking place over hours inside the body, not on a static sample on a slide. More subtle processes seem to be at work. It does seem to be a frequency selective action, but maybe not that precise.
That also makes it difficult to zero in on a particular frequency, as the effects are not instantaneous.
Actually, I'd be rather worried if I saw this thing just outright killing things like some sort of a death ray.
[ 05. April 2007, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: James H ]
Posts: 714 | From San Antonio TX | Registered: Oct 2004
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What's difference in rife machine and tenns unit, besides size and portability?
Aren't these similar enough? I once applied one to a pt. that was holding it and she purposely shocked me and laughed about it.
Tenns units have different frequencies and are used for pain such as arthritis and back pain.
Posts: 290 | From ohio | Registered: Dec 2005
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sparkle7
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Does anyone know if diathermy is similar to far infrared sauna? I don't have alot of money & there is a chiropractor near me who offers far infrared saunas for $25 an hour. There is a guy near by who has diathermy but he looks expensive.
I was reading the book by Rosner. He does advise certain units & settings for Rife "style" machines. Do you think the info is not accurate or effective? Anyone can answer... James, it seems as if you have an opinion about this. The placebo effect is potent. Are the results based on any reality in his book (if you have read it) or are these authors just out to make some cash selling books?
Thanks for the great posts!
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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There are quite a few similarities between 'Rife machines' that involve direct electrical contact and TENS units.
Those nearly all put out a square wave and operate at audio frequencies, Usually between about 200hz and 5,000hz, and seldom above 10,000hz.
TENS units on the other hand usually have a choice of several waveforms that tend to be 'spikey' pulses or damped waves. (Not necessarily an undesirable feature.)
The other difference is they are limited to frequencies of 200hz or lower... a range that muscles can respond to. I think this is part of their FDA approval specification.
There are alot of other electromedical devices approved for various purposes of course, and they probably have different specifications.
Whether one would be of any value for this condition other than the stated pain relieving use is hard to say.
We do know that the FDA has been very unfriendly about 'off label' uses in areas like this.
I'm not personally real fond of that electric shock sensation.
[ 06. April 2007, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: James H ]
Posts: 714 | From San Antonio TX | Registered: Oct 2004
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Just to clarify... Just in case anyone misunderstood, a Diathermy Machine is not in itself a type of Rife Machine. Shortwave Diathermy is an approved physical therapy technique that has been in use for a very long time. This thread was about an experiment combining a 'Rife like' concept with that physical therapy technique.
The Far Infrared Saunas and Shortwave Diathermy both have the stated objective of heating the painful area. I have not used the former, but both probably feel very soothing.
Back in the 1930's there was a raging debate about whether the infection fighting effects noted with diathermy were purely from the heat, or involved other effects. It is still debated.
I would encourage trying both if given the opportunity, and then if one or the other was sufficiently helpful, THEN figure out a cost effective way to use it regularly.
There are also a number of contraindications for diathermy. These include things like a pacemaker or other electronic implant, spinal cord injury so you couldn't feel if you were being burned, metal plates and screws inside the body, hemorrage in progress, active cancer (hemorrage), etc. Common sense stuff, but it might exclude alot of people these days.
Bryan Rosner's book is excellent on the Rife Machine subject in my opinion. Like all of us, probably not all of his opinions are scientific fact, but he speaks honestly from his own personal experience. He has personal experience using a number of the devices he describes. I have opinions on some of them, but have not personally used most of them.
I am by nature a skeptic of this kind of thing, believe it or not. Some of these very high priced 'Rife machines' with pretty colored lights and new age descriptions of how the cure you with some kind of mystery energy just scream QUACK to me. That's my opinion.
Others (Like the Doug Coil and the EMEM) were crudely engineered and built by people who were on a mission to solve an urgent personal problem, not to just rip off the public. I think these were the result of trying different things until something was found that actually worked, for them at least.
But... not everyone has really great electrical construction skills. I think that may account for some people being nearly cured by them, while others saw no benefit at all. An important circuit could have been left open and alot of users would never know that their machine was effectively inoperable. Or the wire connection that was twisted together and taped instead of being securely soldered to a terminal block comes untwisted.
There seems to be some scientific validity to this concept, but the usefulness of the available devices is variable.
It's kind of like the Wild, Wild West out there, and you don't have Consumer Reports to help you sort it out.
[ 06. April 2007, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: James H ]
Posts: 714 | From San Antonio TX | Registered: Oct 2004
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Could place of application be significant? I have neuro lyme many years. I notice that my violent muscle spasms go away within 1 hour after putting a very hot water bottle under me on lower spine. Even spasms arms, legs, and neck.
I know that these areas are connected to central nervous system but maybe these machines should be more specific in where applied. I suffered years with these spasms and they lasted all night and I had to work next day without sleep. My husband suffered without sleep due to the contractile nature of these.
Also, I noticed that after sitting in desk chair that has vibration that it shakes up my whole body. I feel shaking skin or crawling skin for hours. I think it shakes spirochetes up.I get same response when roller skating. (rarely do anymore)
Could these 2 things make a machine more powerful in killing infections?
My husband made a zapper for me with 9volt battery. It helped but not enouigh so added 30volt to it. It was great. It felt like it realligned my misalligned jaw on first use. I can't wear night guards or anything for my tmj. Causes more severe pain. But this was great. Symptoms improved greatly.
However, the wires wear out quickly and battery needs charged and feel bad again. He's looking to make a better machine and would like advice on this from anyone with significant improvement.
Thanks for the sharing and continue your studies and experiments. And if need guinea pig let me know.
Posts: 290 | From ohio | Registered: Dec 2005
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I've also noticed that atb's, and alternatives placed in or on other areas of body can make differece, such as in ears, nose or eyes.
I just read somewhere on zappers where a guy put it in mouth on tooth for toothache.
I'm more interested in areas of spinal cord for obvious reasons. I believe the spinal cord provides direct pathway for beneficial treatments to all areas of body.
I would like to send frequencies by way of spinal cord. I feel that this would benefit me a lot.
Oh and are these machines also similar to the old electroshock therapy? Or is that more barbaric torture? What were benefits and side effects of that? Could you get old one and tone it down or fine tune it and use it? If it helped insane people, why? Did they have neuropathogens?
Sorry so many questions,and I know curiosity killed the cat. I am in medical field with a bad brain so excuse the dumb questions.
Thanks again.
Posts: 290 | From ohio | Registered: Dec 2005
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david1097
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James,
I see the slides but I don't know the particulars that you collected them under. Are these taken from the point where the diathermy pads were attaced, a distant body location or perhaps these are from a wet slide exposed to the RF from the machine? I am not sure.
PS. I remember your post of dark field images of a peripheral blood smear you did some time ago. There was one with this odd looking almost stick figure thing inside. I was really strange looking, almost like someone had drawn a gremlin in the cell. I later came accros the exact same think in a UK veterinay publication on the various strains of babesia. I think it was a type that was prevelent in some animals in the UK. I lost the reference but if I see it again i will send you a copy.
Let me know how the slides where taken, I may have some info on what is going on.
Posts: 1184 | From north america | Registered: Feb 2003
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You weren't scaring me. I have a noriftrife set up and a Doug coil on order already. Perhaps you should give us a little more detail w/each photo when you post them so we have a better understanding of what's taking place at each step.
You can say that the blood was made thinner for easier viewing, but didn't you use a cover glass on the first slide as well? If so, how do you account for the difference in the shape of the RBC's from the first photo to the last two? Did you for some reason squish down the cover glass on the last slide harder than on the first slide? From when I did this kind of thing when I took an EM class in college, I don't believe we were supposed to force cover glasses down too much.
It would be interesting to know how many hours along each photo was taken. I assume each photo also represents a new blood sample taken at that point in the process of your being treated, or was the blood plated on the slide, then subjected to the machine? If it's the later, then I assume that each picture is of a new slide, and not the same one. I guess I'd like to know a little more about the study design and technique.
I'm a former pharmacist, but in spite of my background, I use plenty of non-FDA approved treatments in my effort to be cured of this horrid illness. That doesn't mean, however, that I'm going to roll over and stop asking questions. The purpose of the forum is to encourage discussion, and if you're going to post things like this, you have to expect a few innocent questions.
Posts: 449 | From Pasadena, CA, usa | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Sometimes I forget to say everything I'm thinking. I would never put anything in eye that wasn't eye friendly. Such as specifically made homeopathic or atb. But, I have studied oils and have put diluted oils in ears after studying which ones.
If I had a male genital I would never apply any electric to it. What was this guys purpose?
However, I have burnt my lower spine with the hot water bottle and my neck with the curling iron and didn't know it.As I have no feeling in body, I have to be more careful.
Posts: 290 | From ohio | Registered: Dec 2005
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Yes, I've seen that report and the accompanying photo before. It's like one of those Darwin Awards! Even more amazing is that it was a doctor that did that!
Aside from doing that to a prohibited body part, that was anesthesized so pain could not be felt, and with epinephrine so that the blood flow was nearly cut off and heat could not be dissipated... They did it for 2 1/2 hrs!
That's about like putting a donut (or maybe a hot dog?) in the microwave to warm it up a little... for 45 minutes!
Usually winners of the Darwin Award are COMPLETELY removed from the gene pool so they don't reproduce... but I don't think that guy will be reproducing either. Posts: 714 | From San Antonio TX | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Those pictures do need a little more explanation now that you point out some of the alternative interpretations. Sorry!
They are all of very small drops of finger blood, put on a slide with a glass cover slip put on top. They are being observed at 1000x with oil immersion darkfield. They are fresh samples taken at intervals of several hours.
The first one is just showing how many cyst forms there are, even in an area of the slide that was rather sparse. They aren't sticking together, and WBC's (none in that picture) do not seem to be aware of them.
The second is another sample a few hours after a rife session showing cyst forms starting to stick together in small clumps.
In the third, the clumps are much larger, and the individual spheroplasts are still discernable. I had serious concerns that this much stuff at once could cause a clot problem.
In subsequent samples you could still find evidence of these large clumps, but they seemed to just kind of break down and be cleaned up by phagocytes.
That's the general sequence, and I still have far more questions than answers.
These are not perfect photos and are not particularly uniform. They are just photos I took when I saw something interesting. Comparing the relative numbers of cells in different pictures for instance would be meaningless.
...And, as has been noticed some of the RBC's are contorted into strange shapes. RBC's also start getting a spikey appearance as they age on a slide. My hematology textbooks say this is normal, but don't really offer a satisfying explanation for it. 'Spiculated' is the term.
Normally a more generous drop of blood would be used, and the cover slip placed gently on it, so the over all appearance of the blood in its natural state can be observed.
If you look closely, you may spot some babesia. Babesia can be really hard to see though.
If the film of blood is very thin so the cells are in a single layer, the little critters living inside them start to become visible. Gently press on the cover slip so it flattens the cells and you will see them more clearly.
(If you want to see something really interesting, squeeze harder so some of the infected RBC's rupture, and look at what comes out.)
After a number of months with these machines there alot fewer spheroplasts (cysts) but they are not gone.
What I am seeing that I don't like is alot of babesia. Not to mention the really strange looking thing David mentioned. David, I am still seeing those. If you run across it again, please take note of what it is for me!
Unfortunately, I have not found any kind of a 'Rife mode' that seems to have any effect on Babesia. And... It seems like Babesia prospers when you thin out the Bb population for it. That is my bad news.
Feel free to discuss any theories. I promise I'll be much less snappy as soon as I finish my taxes.
James
Posts: 714 | From San Antonio TX | Registered: Oct 2004
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Greatcod
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Cave, how did you find that one? That poor guy is probably looking for an herbal way to grow his penis back.
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david1097
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posted
HI, A couple of quick notes, I will have more a bit later (after I think about things).
Take a look for a term called "crenation" I think this the effect you are seeing on the RBC's. The spiculed effect has much longer protrusions on the cells, still the term spiculed used in a lot of professional discussion to describe the knobs that grow out of the RBCs, albeit incorrectly (from what I recall). I agree, the description of these is inadequate as they are basically called artifacts by almost every reference that I could see, yet I have noticed a direct co-relation with the degree of physical symptoms (as occur during relapse) as there are many more cells with these protrusions during worsened symtoms. I have also seen that some animal studies that show slides from sick animals (al sorts of different diseases) have more of these crenated cells.
Here is an interesting paper on the spiculed/crenated cells and the relationship to a few diseases:
Have you tried to do thin smears. I think that you will see that the the cells with babesia in them that are ready to emerge will fracture during the smear. Quite often you will see 4 of the little things near the fracture point. These are visible in plain feild.
I have also seen a very odd form of RBC, in which the RBC look like a 4 bladed propeller. IE 4 elongated RBC's connected together in the center with a filament. This same shape was reported by the group that works with Brornson in sweden. i have seem them a number of times on wet prep slides. They do not match any morphology that is in any text book. I have to take some pictures next time I see them.
On the RBC fracture from pressure, do you have any pictures? When the RBC break apart there are long proteins that come off as the cell breaks apart. These don't have the chracteristic spiral shape but are long and stringy. They also come out of some of the RBC as they deteriorate after an extended room temperature storage.
You might want to centrifuge and then dilute the RBC's in water, put them on a slide and then fracture them. If they are the lyme bacteria and they are alive/motile, they should go into cyst form in a few minutes. The use of distilled water is a technique that is used for production of cysts for lab studies.
Let me know about the above and in the mean time I will think about things a bit more.
Posts: 1184 | From north america | Registered: Feb 2003
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Yes, 'crenated' is the word I was looking for. I haven't been too concerned with it since the cells start out nice and round, and then start taking on the crenated appearance once on the slide for a little while.
That was a better article on the subject than I have seen.
It is interesting that a 'glass effect' was noted where they would do that when in direct contact with a glass slide or cover slip, but not if plastic was used.
I don't have alot of lab equipment, just a small collection of microscopes and some simple stains. No centrifuge.
I do make thin smears sometimes, and also thick smears where the blood cells are allowed to lyse. In this case I wanted to watch what was going on in the live state, thus the wet mounts.
Is the strange critter you remember seeing?
This is the typical stuff seen when a wet mount is squished a bit. Mostly it is the so-called 'darkfield objects' that you mentioned, which have been a subject for discussion for decades.
I think there are other things mixed in there too in some of these...
It would be good to know what is just structural stuff of blood cells, what is pathogenic, and what might be really strange looking 'guests' inside us that are perfectly harmless. Interesting anyway.
Alot of these others really do look like some kind of Babesia...
Most of these photos were from back when we were still in the middle of the ABX treatment by our LLMD. We were alot sicker then. Now, thankfully, the photos aren't quite so interesting. Posts: 714 | From San Antonio TX | Registered: Oct 2004
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I'll try to answer a few of those questions as I get time. A few things though...
I haven't spent much time with zapper type devices and can't really tell you how helpful (or not helpful) they may be. Maybe somebody else can.
As far as building things or buying anything very expensive... a modestly priced function generator like you can buy off eBay for $50 or $100 will work as good as any of them providing you get one that puts out 10 volts or more.
One older HP model that I know works for this purpose is the HP 3310a or 3310b. It is a small, very simple unit with a big knob to set the frequency (up to 5mhz) and has plenty of power. Many others will work too. Usually they have a knob to set a DC offset, thus making them like the zappers if you want.
One thing about DC offset though. Too much DC current through your skin will cause an electrolysis of the liquids in your tissues. The result is from a rash to an injury like a 2nd degree burn. Normally this would cause a very uncomfortable burning sensation before doing too much harm... but did you say you had no body sensation? You might want to be a little cautious.
Larger electrodes spread the current out so it isn't too concentrated, or else the voltage can be turned down. (The zappers usually have a resistor in series to limit them to a small current.)
Using the devices without the DC offset does not seem to cause this problem.
It is something to be aware of at least.
Posts: 714 | From San Antonio TX | Registered: Oct 2004
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
I have spoke with one manufacturer of a popular Rife type machine and he readily admits that he has not been able to kill bacteria in experiments using his device in a lab setting. He also says that despite this result it does have a different effect in the body. Since he lost a daughter to cancer his Rife research has largely been focused on producing the same results as Royal Rife. Super regeneration seems to be the corner post of his current research. I know about as much about that as I do about the space shuttle.
This seems to support the theory of either making the bacteria visible to the immune system or making it vulnerable in some other way.
On the other hand "Doug" of the Doug device actually watched the Lyme spirochetes spin around and seen damage to them under the microscope. Since he was using a magnetic field delivery method maybe this has some unknown effect also. Since Doug had no reason to make up false results and was trying to cure himself and his family he seems to be a most credible source. He has not gained a penny from his discovery that I am aware of.
It is generally accepted that there are two distinct effects from a Rife device and they may or may not be present at the same time. The first one being an immune system boost and the other is damage or some negative effect on bacteria or viruses.
Thanks for the great photos. You have been very busy while I was on vacation.
D Bergy
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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I think there are many different effects involved with the many different things people call 'Rife Machines'... And that those 'effects' can have totally different effects on the various conditions people try to treat with them.
I just spent a year and countless thousands of dollars investigating just one small area of this subject involving one or two related conditions.
I feel very fortunate to have come away with some things that appear to work well on the some of my immediate concerns.
1) Shortwave Diathermy seems to be incredibly helpful in eliminating much of the pain and suffering associated with Lyme. It may also have at least some local effects against the infection itself.
2) Frequencies in the low RF range modulated onto the diathermy signal appear to be effective at getting Bb cyst forms destroyed in some manner. Perhaps antibiotics AT THE SAME TIME would be a complementary treatment in this case.
A few slightly adventurous people might be able to take advantage of the first one... trying some diathermy to treat their Lyme Arthritis and muscle pain.
Unfortunately VERY FEW will be able to take advantage of the second one, just because of the difficulty level of the equipment needed.
I would be happy to share the recipe, but I think messing with ancient vacuum tube circuits carrying that kind of voltage is out of reach for most Lymies.
It looks like a very simple circuit with few components, but the engineering subtleties that make the difference between it working and not or burning itself up are more than most would imagine.
Plus, something like this is SO POLITICALLY INCORRECT these days!
Maybe someone else can learn something that can be distilled down into something more accessible to the masses.
This is just Lyme Disease, pathogens that are at least known and are big enough to see with common microscopes. You just have to figure out a way to make it become dead without hurting anything else.
The people trying to tackle cancer have so much bigger obstacles to overcome! They are having to fly blind.
Posts: 714 | From San Antonio TX | Registered: Oct 2004
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
I hope you are documenting your research well James. You are probably part of the last generation of people who understand the old technology that has not yet been fully explored.
Keep up the research. No one else is using your approach that I know of. It may turn out to be an important part of the puzzle.
I will have to use the GB-4000 since my limited grasp of electronics keeps me from going further than that.
D Bergy
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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JoeHam, I always knew you were very knowledgeable, but just being able to describe those old components is incredable!![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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