posted
i hope this works but here is a picture of my so called spider bite.... does this look like a possible tick bite bullseye rash???? i was dx with ms
it looked a whole lot worse before this pic.
lisa Posts: 40 | From ky | Registered: Apr 2007
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
looks like it to me. If you goggle "Em rash", they've got tons of pictures...
That's what led me to self-diagnosis and I was right!! course this was after seeing a lot of doctors.
then when I got the Igenex -- yep, positive.....
but to make absolutely sure -- get a doc to do the bloodwork and send to Igenex to make sure.
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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mojo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9309
posted
My guess is that a tick bite (which this does look like) would give you Lyme Disease vs. a spider bite givig you MS.
Sorry, my smart mouth was for your Dr's. My concern is for you. Do you have Lyme Dr. that you can go to?
Posts: 1761 | From USA | Registered: May 2006
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Jill E.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9121
posted
Lisa,
Remember that only a fraction of Lyme rashes are actual bulls-eyes. The EM (Lyme) rash tends to expand - get bigger.
My rash was a very pale pink long oval - several inches long. My father's rashes (he was bitten several years after me) were initally big splotchy purple "angry" rashes, followed by one bulls-eye, followed by several smaller bulls-eyes.
They can take all kinds of shapes, sizes and colors. Please look in the archives for photos.
Long after I was diagnosed, I finally found a photo much like my rash in one of the well-known Lyme books.
Take care, Jill
-------------------- If laughter is the best medicine, why hasn't stand-up comedy cured me? Posts: 1773 | From San Diego | Registered: Apr 2006
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Vermont_Lymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9780
posted
lisabeth --
In my opinion,you should definitely go to see an llmd if you have that rash.
Posts: 2557 | From home | Registered: Aug 2006
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
WOW! Good pictures!!!
I have to agree with mojo who said..
"My guess is that a tick bite (which this does look like) would give you Lyme Disease vs. a spider bite givig you MS."
And I too am mocking your doctors... NOT you!
It is a rare day to see doctors who can, and do, actually THINK!!! Glad YOU have your thinking cap on!!!
Welcome to LymeNet.. and please feel free to ask us anything you care to. We've been around the Lyme block a few times and will try to help.
I think.. after seeing that picture... I am going to have to call you little Miss Muffett.
shazdancer
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1436
posted
My son's bite looked a lot like that second view, and was also behind the knee, a common place for tick bites. We kept an eye on it, it never expanded. So going by what we'd been taught, we thought it couldn't be Lyme.
We were wrong.
Please see a doctor who knows Lyme, now.
Posts: 1558 | From the Berkshires | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
ok.... now i'm a little scared!! since aug. 2005 I was told i have multiple sclerosis......... at that time i had 6 lesions on mri of brain and my spinal tap came back with two obliclonal bands.. I even went to UOFK where the chairman of ms and a specific ms specialist confirm my diagnoses..he said my lesions show "dawson fingers" and then he did a 2 hour mri with and without contrast and said with the results that my ms is very active.... Now 20 months later I am bedridden because of the last major episode i had feb 23rd 2007 from that i am dx. with POTS and now they throw there hands in the air and say wow this ms shouldn't cause POTS................ they even said in Jan of 2007 that i may have had a relapse of mild transverse myelitis because of my symptoms at the time and the two new lesions on my spine... I am so confused............ but after laying in this bed for over 2 months i have done alot of research and find that my symptoms can be lyme and it would make since to have POTS with lyme... I'm not sure which one I would rather have.... If I'm already having heart problems with a pos. tilt table(my hr with standing goes to 160 and stays there and i am very symptomatic) I am probably in the later stages of lyme and i know i could still be treated with antibiotics, but what does it look like for me?????? sorry that i'm so confusing but i am having a hard time and with no help from the docs.
except i am going to vandy to see a ms specialist in june... sorry so long. hugs to all. lisa
Posts: 40 | From ky | Registered: Apr 2007
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Vermont_Lymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9780
posted
Lisa,
Sorry to hear about your health troubles.
If it is lyme, it is certainly treatable! That is the good news, and I hope that you will see an llmd as soon as possible.
I won't say that it is always easy, and treatment can certainly take an extended time -- I am in my ninth month of antibiotics for late stage lyme -- but there is alot of hope if your condition is indeed caused by lyme.
If you do a search here under "MS" you will find alot of information on lymenet.
Best wishes for your health!
Posts: 2557 | From home | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
I'm sorry your drs are so uninformed. Believe me, they THINK they know what they are doing because drs are taught in medical school that Lyme disease is nothing to be concerned about.
They didn't do their homework on EM rashes either. And I'll bet they don't know that Lyme disease causes lesions on the brain!
The good news is that you can give up on them and get treated, and possibly get your life back. It may take awhile, but you have a very good chance of getting out of that bed!!!!
Keep reading....and then begin your search for an LLMD....or vice versa!
I too have a MS diagnosis. And yes, Lyme can cause lesions....just like MS can cause lesions.
I certainly hope you find a LLMD....as soon as possible! This is the most important thing you can do, find a good lyme educated doctor! and give yourself HOPE!
Here's an article that I found very helpful in understanding the MS/Lyme connection.
Lyme Disease: Unraveling the Mystery of Misdiagnosis by Marjorie Tietjen
Lyme Disease is the fastest spreading vector borne disease in the world. It is becoming obvious that the ticks and other insects which may spread the lyme bacteria (Borrelia burgdorferi, Bb) and other infections, know no boundaries. The ticks which carry lyme disease and numerous coinfections, are very hardy and their area of habitat is not just limited to New England. Ticks are able to withstand varied climatic conditions.
Numerous patients are being told that the ticks which spread lyme disease, just do not live in their state and as a result doctors are saying there is very little chance that the patient's problems could be due to lyme disease. Many times the coinfections are not even discussed. However, these seem to play just as important of a role in causing disease as Bb. Some researchers feel that perhaps the many different coinfections, such as babesia, erlichia, bartonella, mycoplasma, certain viruses, etc, may work in synergy with each other to cause the complex disease we call chronic lyme.
So, despite the denial that lyme does not exist in certain states, there have been confirmed reports of lyme disease in just about every state, including Texas. There are no tick border patrols. The incidence of autoimmune diseases and other chronic conditions seems to be escalating in proportion to the lyme/coinfection epidemic. Vast numbers of people with Lyme and other coinfections are being misdiagnosed with nonspecific labels such as Multiple Sclerosis (M.S.), ALS, Alzheimer's Disease, Fibromyalgia, Parkinson's, Lupus, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and many others. All of these disease labels only describe the symptoms, not the cause. Most of these disease labels have no known definitive tests, causes or cures, only symptomatic treatments.
Despite the very inaccurate testing, thousands of patients with these labels are being found to test positive for lyme and the coinfections. Everyone seems to have a unique combination of pathogens. This may account for all the different presentations of the disease complex called Lyme Disease. Currently there is no test in use which can totally rule out Lyme Disease. So ....it would seem prudent....especially with the degenerative diseases, to initiate an adequate trial of a single antibiotic ...or in some cases a combination of different antibiotics, which would also address the coinfections or different forms of the lyme spirochete. This brings me to my next topic....Pleomorphism.
It is felt ,by a growing number of researchers, that one of the reasons for the inaccuracy of testing for lyme and coinfections, is due to pleomorphism. Pleomorphic organisms are those which change form according to the internal environmental conditions they are faced with. We will use Borrelia burgdorferi as an example. When researching or testing for lyme, most researchers and lab technicians are trying to identify the corkscrew or spiral shape of the organism, or they are trying to measure the body's immune reaction to this form of the microbe. The tests are looking for certain proteins which are specific to the spiral shape of the organism. The problem with this is that when the spirochete morphs into the cyst or L form, there are now different proteins associated with this new form of the organism which the old tests can not identify. This would lead to the conclusion that the current testing is missing a whole segment of this microbe's population in the patient's body.
Dr. Stephen Phillips, who has been researching Lyme Disease for the past 15 years, shared some of his research with doctors, patients and advocates at a Connecticut conference in 2005. Many doctors feel that spinal taps are the gold standard for diagnosing central nervous system lyme disease. Phillips tells us that pleomorphism enters into this situation. Phillips said that in one study that when the spiral form of Bb was injected into the spinal fluid, there was 100% conversion of Bb from the spiral form to the cystic form. This cyst form of the lyme microbe is being found in the spinal fluid of M.S. patients.
Phillips strongly suggests that Bb may be one of the causes of M.S. He stated that every feature that you see associated with M.S. can also be found in lyme disease. Two of the most striking shared diagnostic signs for Lyme and M.S are brain and cervical cord lesions.
I think the main idea we need to come away with ,concerning pleomorphism, is that perhaps we should be probing for the L or cyst forms of Lyme in many of our rapidly emerging diseases.
Another example of a possible crossover or link to lyme, is with Alzheimer's Disease. Judith Miklossy, a Swiss researcher, conducted a study which was published in Neuro Report vol. 4, no. 7 of July 1993. It focused on autopsies of 14 Alzheimer's brains. It was entitled....Alzheimer's Disease - A Spirochetosis? The study found that spirochetes were found in the blood, cerebral spinal fluid and brains of 14 Alzheimer's patients during autopsy. Thirteen age matched control cases were without spirochetes. To summarize, the observations suggested that perhaps several strains of spirochetes, including Bb, are responsible for Alzheimer's Disease. One would think that researching the role of antibiotics in the treatment of Alzheimer's would be of primary importance.
Here is a partial list of reasons for misdiagnosis:
1. Inaccurate testing
2. Pleomorphism
3. Doctor's ignorance of the overall symptom complex of these tick, and possibly other insect borne infections. According to the CDC, Lyme Disease is a clinical diagnosis (based on patient's history and symptoms). Lyme Disease is not just a muscular skeletal disease. It can affect every system of the body and presents with a classic overall symptom complex. Individuals vary in the symptoms they exhibit but the overall picture is most often unmistakable.
4. Coinfections and different strains of spirochetes not being tested for
I would like to share with you several important links
In order to end this epidemic of misdiagnosis we need to identify and treat the basic causes of these diseases and conditions. The medical community seems to think that treating inflammation is treating the cause. We want to know, what is causing the inflammation?
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
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