lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
I dont get it. I saw my LLMD yesturday and he asked me what I am taking for my liver. I said nothing
I told him that I was doing excersise and drinking water.
I then told him that every time I take Milk Thistle Im in more pain the next day. He didnt have an answer for me.
So last night I had my bottle of standardized milk thistle. So I took 1,,,,yes one!
Today I feel horrible. I slept for 11 hours and woke up with severe neck and back pain. I havent woke with back pain like that in a LONG time.
My feet are burning so bad today and I was so depressed this morning. I told my mother I just wanted to DIE again so I didnt have to be a burden and I didnt have to think about money.
I dont get it. My liver levels are always good. Is it really possible that the Milk Thistle is purging that many horrible toxins?
Or am I just having a unknown herbal reaction.
Is this a good thing like a herx. I just took one! But every time I have taken it especially since anti-biotics I feel so much worse. I can hardlly move without PAIN>.
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
my llmd told me to take my milk thistle supplement(s) with tomatoe juice - something to do with how it breaks down maybe - can't really remember why.
the fact remains that i hate tomatoe juice so i either eat salsa (has tomotoes in it) or with tomoto soup (hey what can i say)
might try it with tomatoe juice see what happens ?? just a thought.
Posts: 121 | From Gaithersburg, MD USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
Thats weird.
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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I'm on milk thistle with no problem, but I did a search and found the following link which lists some adverse effects of oral ingestion of milk thistle (if that is what is going on). http://www.ahrq.gov/clinic/epcsums/milktsum.htm
It sounds like you've done some experimentation on your own to determine that it is definately the milk thistle causing your "problem". Can't say if it is just cleansing your liver or if it is an adverse effect.
Good luck.
jloisu
Posts: 197 | From Seeing Lyme Green in Iowa | Registered: Jun 2005
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lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
Thanks so much.. Im reading it now.
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
It says here that these are the advese effects.
Adverse effects associated with oral ingestion of milk thistle include:
Gastrointestinal problems (e.g., nausea, diarrhea, dyspepsia, flatulence, abdominal bloating, abdominal fullness or pain, anorexia, and changes in bowel habits). Headache. Skin reactions (pruritus, rash, urticaria, and eczema). Neuropsychological events (e.g., asthenia, malaise, and insomnia). Arthralgia. Rhinoconjunctivitis. Impotence. Anaphylaxis.
However It does not say why,, of course. It could be that the milk thistle is purging the liver but there is no evidence for this in the mechanism of action.
It does say that it blocks toxins. So it might be possible that the Lyme is generating so many toxins that they are not being processed by the liver?
Instead they are going and accumulating in other places of my body. IE muscles and brain.
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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valymemom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7076
posted
LymeHerx,
I just went to a pdf I have describing Dr. K.'s protocol and looked at his liver support. (He is Gigi's doctor).
The ingredients in his liver support (that's what he calls it - Liver Support)...... are different.
You may want to take a look. These products can be purchased through Pharmax.
Posts: 1240 | From Centreville,VA | Registered: Mar 2005
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
If you chose to post your email addy...I will explain ...
Posts: 9426 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
?
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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johnnyb
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7645
posted
I think Marnie is saying is to go into the "profile" link on top, edit your profile, and add your email address in the correct field.
Marine, can you cc: me on this? I just started Biaxin and wanted to try Milk Thistle to protect my liver, but I want to do it safely.....
hopeful123
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3244
posted
lymeherx001, I am taking Milk Thistle and it does not seem to produce any side effects. I don't take it as much as recommended, but I am taking it and never actually thought that it could be a problem for some folks.
posted
Milk Thistle intereferes with the P 450 System so depending on what other meds you are taking, there is most likely a logical explanation. What other meds are you on??
posted
I dont know and perhaps Marnie has the answer for you but she doesnt seem to want to share it with all of us for some reason.
You could just be sensative or alergic to it. I know I cant take psyllium. Every time I take it it does exactly the opposite of what it does to most people.
I get bloated and stopped up and things just dont function. My gp said it sounds like an allergy so after trying and trying I gave up.
Posts: 561 | From connecticut | Registered: May 2004
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posted
Re: Milk Thistle. The liver stores lots of toxins. When you take Milk Thistle it stimulates the liver to release these toxins. If your colon is not in good shape, the toxins have no where to go and are released into your blood stream making you feel worse than you already did. Try a good colon cleanse, Arise and Shine makes a great one. Take lots of probiotics. Also look into "The pH Miracle" the author's last name is Young. Has a cleansing program and recipes. You need to cleanse the colon before using any herb that stimulates liver cleansing. A couple of months ago I experienced some really severe symptoms. Just felt awful, tired, pain increased, depression, you know the usual but just worse. Of course the local doctors wanted to put me on antidepressants. Been there, done that before I was diagnosed with Lyme. Since I have been on antibiotics, no depression, no panic attacks, etc. Didn't want to start up with those drugs again if I could avoid it. Thought about it and said, you know, I just feel like I have been poisoned. I don't want to sound too strange to some of you folks but I went to a local clinic run my a naturopathic doctor and had a colonic and started a broth fast, then added some juices... just followed a very simple cleansing diet plan and to cut to the chase. I started feeling better almost immediately. I have been on antibiotics for almost two years straight and I think my body just needed a break. I have totally changed the way I am eating and I feel much better. I have been able to give my body a little break from the antibiotics and have felt really well. Just a couple of weeks ago I started feeling like I need to go back on the antibiotics again soon. I go to see a new (to me) LLMD in North Carolina, am a little nervous and will probably need to start back on them after I see him. Anyway...hope this helps someone out there. Main point, Cleanse the colon, then the liver. I'm not a doctor either, and nothing I have said should be taken as medical advise. It is just what I have learned during the nearly 20 years of being misdiagnosed and learning take care of myself so my doctors didn't kill me. Hang in there.
Posts: 49 | From Florida | Registered: Dec 2003
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johnnyb
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7645
posted
I must be really lyme-brained today. I thought you called it "Arse and shine," not "Arise and Shine!"
Seems like "Arse and Shine" would be a better name for a colon cleanser, anyway!
Seriously, that is actually very good stuff to know about Milk Thistle!
posted
If you are responding this dramatically to Milk Thistle it is obvious that your liver is extremely toxic. It is attractive to be looking for a quick fix and answer. Especially when we are really sick, we want the answer to be a change in meds or something easy to mix up and take. But it really takes a change in diet, no cheating. Sorry if some people think it is funny but an impacted toxic colon is no joke. Diverticulis is no joke. A colon cleanse is essential to get started and then try either a smaller dose of the milk thistle or do research on other herbal cleanses. At www.theaimcompanies.com you can find Herbal Release and Herbal Fiberblend, both in capsule form. These are good but only if you follow a cleansing diet of some sort, starting with broths or juicing for a few days. You might want to find a naturopathic doctor or acupunturist who can help you get on the right track. The typical liver enzyme test does not pick up the toxicity until it is way too late. The liver is one of the most resilient organs in the body but again, if it is going to start dumping toxins, it needs a clean, free flowing colon to release into otherwise it will release back into your system and you will feel really sick. Hope you feel better.
Posts: 49 | From Florida | Registered: Dec 2003
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Please document the liver "dumping toxins"
This is NOT what it does.
Posts: 9426 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
Then what does the liver do if not dump toxins.
I eat a good diet,, eggs vegetables, chicken,
I eat NO flour or sugar,, if I do its once a week.
I also excersise every day,, at least try to.
What your saying about the colon,,,hmm? My bowels used to be very constipated but now they are much better since Im on Flagyl.
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
Has anyone else had a strong reaction to Milk Thistle?
I feel that I need to take it but the pain and depression it causes makes me feel like Im giving up even more of my precious life.
I mean how long am I expected to live like this?
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
quote:Originally posted by Marnie: Please document the liver "dumping toxins"
This is NOT what it does.
Oxidation, Reduction, Assimilation
wouldnt that be a dump?
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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Geneal
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10375
posted
Check out this website for meds that shouldn't be taken with milk thistle:
Or just google milk thistle and antibiotic contraindications.
I can't take it now as I am on rifampin, however, my liver enzymes continue to be normal.
Thank God!
Hugs,
Geneal
Posts: 6250 | From Louisiana | Registered: Oct 2006
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
WHEN I went to my duck for a so-called "complete" physical last year as part of the "Welcome To Medicare" program, and told him about taking the 93 capsules of herbs everyday, plus some tinctures, he became very alarmed and said he was very worried about my LIVER!
I was NOT worried about it. Because I knew I was keeping my system in pretty good shape with the MILK THISTLE, RED ROOT tincture, AND SARSAPARILLA. AND when I had been on heavier abx, I took Acidophilus.
My liver checked out GREAT by the LAB tests. As a matter of fact the only tbing that was not GOOD on the tests was my Cholesterol count. IT was about 240. He said I need to work on that, by letter. I haven't seen him since that visit. Though they have sent me a letter that it is time to get testing again.
I figure for what? They won't take the tests I really want anyway. Like a Lyme test. Nor a Babs, Erlichia or Bartonella tests.
Medicare, my part D insurance, and Medicaid would pay, at least the majority, but they still don't want to???????????
I have read many of the posts on this OLD thread, and I agree that COLON cleanse would be very important for MOST of you. I don't ever need one because CIPRO and my duck helped me get rid of it way back in 94. I had had diverticulitis for many years before that.
BUT our systems are made up of a lot more than our liver.
The liver is just PART of our entire Lymph SYSTEM. AND when you get all the poisons out of your body, where are they going to GO? OUT your colon, or in MY case the small intestine. We can only breathe out so many.
So cleansing is actually MORE important than KILLING.
Health
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6034
posted
try to find a ND that goes vega testing a well known ND if you can that is good at vega testing or has one of his staff as a vega tester.
This has always worked for me, I get vitmains tested, and so forth.
It should not cost a lot of money, hopefully. I have one I have seen on and off for years, so he knows me and I can go in and get things tested. He is though a 3 hour drive to get there, and 3 hour drive back.
THIS has been the best for me, to know if the supps are compatible for me, and if what I am feeling from them is good or bad.
Takes all the stress out of it. and it actually saves me money, because I know what to buy, and dont waste it.
Also, I am one to have troubles with supps, however I did not when I was well.
Trish
Posts: 1250 | From Canada | Registered: Aug 2004
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
Trish: Is Vega testing something like ART testing or muscle testing?
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