Topic: HELP-probable babs infection-3 weeks untreated-terrified of prognosis
adamm
Unregistered
posted
Hello. I was bitten by a tick on the seventh of this month, and have since developed a rash of pinpoint-sized petechiae on my arms. I know this is a babs symptom, but I won't be able to begin treatment at least until this wednesday (if I'll be able to start it at all.) My Dr. has never before diagnosed this infection, so he couldn't give me a prognosis. I AM being treated with doxy, so this is the only infection I'm really worried about.
So what do you guys think-- it there any chance I'll get through this without any brain damage? (does it even always occur, or is there something to the oft-cited statement that some people have no serious complications from and can beat untreated babs?) Or am I screwed? Is it likely that I've already experienced some degree of encephalopathy? (last Tuesday, I had psychological/intellectual tests that indicated that I was functioning as well as ever, and I have my spleen. Aside from the rash, I have no other babs symptoms. Oh, and also, I'm virtually certain that the tick that bit me was a wood tick.)
I'd immensely appreciate a response to this; I've been so worried about this this past week I haven't been able to sleep at night.
Oh, one more thing: I was wondering what mechanism underlies a babs herx--I thought herxes were specific effects of the treatment of spirochetal infections.
TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
Hi Adam, I'm sorry you were bitten by a tick and now have to worry about all of this.
quote: My Dr. has never before diagnosed this infection, so he couldn't give me a prognosis. I AM being treated with doxy, so this is the only infection I'm really worried about.
Co-infections can be very tricky, especially babs. If you are not seeing an LLMD (lyme literate Medical Doctor) who is a member of ILADS, please find one.
The tests for babesia are tricky. One can easily have a negative result and still have the infection. I don't know that I would assume the rash alone is proof positive that you have babs. I think bartonella can also cause petechiae but so can other things that aren't tick related. I would turn all of this over to a very good LLMD and let them determine the course of treatment.
Are you being treated with a high enough dose of doxy? 400 mg per day is what most people take from what I've seen but I'm not a doctor so please get your dose from an LLMD. You also need an antibiotic that deals with the cystic form of Borrelia.
quote: So what do you guys think-- it there any chance I'll get through this without any brain damage? (does it even always occur, or is there something to the oft-cited statement that some people have no serious complications from and can beat untreated babs?)
YES!! If you've only had it for 3 weeks you have a very good chance of coming out of this without ANY damage. I can't stress enough though that your best outcome will be obtained through an LLMD. This is all they do and most are very good. Go to the seeking doctors section and get patient recommendations. Also get recommendations from the ILADS site. This page towards the bottom - use the referrals link. http://www.ilads.org/
quote: Is it likely that I've already experienced some degree of encephalopathy?
I'm not a doctor so I can't answer this question with certainty but you have not been infected for very long so my guess is probably not or if you have it can be ameliorated without damage. I don't know that for sure though. You see the terrible damage from encephalopathy and possibly quinolinic acid in many of us who have gone a long time without proper treatment thanks to the ignorance of the medical community. You on the other hand have caught this very quickly and have every right to expect no brain damage. Especially if you get to an LLMD right away and get appropriate treatment.
quote: I've been so worried about this this past week I haven't been able to sleep at night.
I'm so sorry. Please try to get your rest, you need it to get better.
quote: Oh, one more thing: I was wondering what mechanism underlies a babs herx--I thought herxes were specific effects of the treatment of spirochetal infections.
According to the new babesia book, written by Dr. S., some doctors think that babesia generates a toxin not unlike borrelia. I don't beleive anyone knows for sure though and this is a disease that likely has a lot of strains and very little research. Also, some people have difficulty detoxing biotoxins (and possibly other toxins) and a lot of dead bugs in the system can cause inflammation and cause one to feel very sick. My sister had the genetic testing for this and she is one of the apparent 25% of the population that has trouble with this. I seem to also have difficulty as evidenced by some tests that my LLMD ran.
Someone else will be along with a welcome package but if not, I'll keep an eye on this and make sure you get something.
Please don't worry too much. You are doing the right thing and are getting treatment in a timely manner EXCEPT that you need an LLMD. VERY IMPORTANT and I'm so glad for your sake that you are getting treatment quickly. The most important thing is to get to an LLMD right away. If you have babesia or bartonella or one of the other infections that ticks carry, you need someone who can figure it out based on their experience and the backing and experience of the many other LLMD's that they have access to.
Please stay in touch. We are here for you.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Terry said everything I would have said.... saved me all that typing!!
I agree....relax. I believe I had babesia and Lyme for at least 42 yrs before being dxd and treated. I began my treatment 7 yrs ago and have been off abx for 2 1/2 yrs now.
The following signs/symptoms may be present in those infected with Babesiosis: Fatigue* Arthralgias* Myalgia* Drenching sweats* Headaches* Emotional lability* Depression* Dark urine* Splenomegaly* Dizziness* Nausea and vomiting* Cough* Dyspnea* Fever* Chills* Hepatosplenomegaly* Jaundice* Malaise* Shortness of breath* Bleeding tendencies, bruising* Thrombocytopenia* Hemoglobinuria* Hyperesthesia* Pulmonary edema* Encephalopathy* Low to normal range leukocyte counts* Possible elevated levels of dehydrogenase, bilirubin, transaminase* Anorexia* Approximately 25%- 66% of Babesia patients are known to be co-infected with Lyme disease. These symptoms may continue for long periods of time, decrease, then return. A low Babesiosis titer (IgG) often indicates a chronic infection. An acute or current infection may show a higher reading on the IgM test initially. There are over 100 species of Babesia in the United States but only ONE or TWO species are currently checked by commercial labs.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96223 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
if it were a bacterial infection like ehrlich., rmsf, or bart., wouldn't doxy. be treating for it? The reason I'm worried about babs is that the spots were appearing despite therapy with abx.
TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
Many of the LLMD's call the tick transmitted bartonella a BLO (Bartonella Like Organism). It gets different treatment than the standard cat scratch fever.
I'm not sure about the rest of the co-infections since I *only* have bartonella and babesia but from what I've seen, various abx are used depending on the infection. I would not count on doxy being an effective treatment for bacterial co-infections.
Also, please make sure you are taking high quality probiotics, such as theralac while on abx and for awhile afterwards. This can save you a lot of grief down the road since abx kill off the good bacteria in the intestines and probiotics replenish them. Take probiotics at least 2 hours away from abx.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by adamm: The reason I'm worried about babs is that the spots were appearing despite therapy with abx.
Could be herx-induced rash....could be from erhlich, or bart or RMSF.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96223 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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adamm
Unregistered
posted
sorry, just one more question: Is the small size of the petechiae (they're as big as pinpoints) specifically indicative of babs? Or can they be any size from any infection?
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valymemom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7076
posted
I had pinprick dots and have only been treated for lyme and bart. I think it was bart in me for the dots left with levaquin/ceftin treatment.
It is very hard to say which infection can be the cause. I have two being treated in my home for babs and a hubby I believe has had it for over ten years (untreated) & none of them had this rash.
Your symptoms will guide your llmd.
Posts: 1240 | From Centreville,VA | Registered: Mar 2005
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adamm
Unregistered
posted
Sorry, one more question Does the fact that I had a bruise around one of the petechiae indicate babs, or could that happen with other TBS's too?
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
Sorry, don't know.
Up for answers.
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
I don't know either. What's strange is that I have those pin point red dots and they never went away with treatment for Lyme and babs. I'm pretty sure I don't have bart.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96223 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
I have borrelia, babesia and bartonella that I've had for many years. When I first got petechiae on my legs and the top of my feet (a few years ago), my regular doctor said she see's them in patients who have edema. I do have a lot of edema but it is all over, not just legs and feet and when the petechiae developed, my edema was not any worse in my legs and feet so I don't think they were caused by edema.
My fibro doctor had no idea what they were. After being on mino for awhile I developed hyperpigmentation in exactly the same places on my legs so I can't tell if they are still there or if the little spots turned into the big brown hyperpigmentation spots that I now have. I read on a university cancer site that toxins may be responsible in some for hyperpigmentation and I know I do have a problem getting rid of toxins. I've no doubt that there are other things that can cause petechiae besides TBI's.
What it boils down to is that petechiae is bleeding under the skin, bruising is also bleeding under the skin caused by damage to blood vessels. You had the streaks which can be caused by inflammation of the blood vessels. There may be some process going on with your tissue and blood vessels but I'm not a doctor and really have no idea if that is what is happening or not. If anyone can figure out if it is related to TBI, it would be an LLMD.
If you find out, please let us know.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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kelmo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8797
posted
Cave.....I get it. Posts: 2903 | From AZ | Registered: Feb 2006
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