pamoisondelune
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11846
posted
Members here are saying they "trashed" their gut flora by taking antibiotics. I'd like to know, when that happened, were they taking abundant, high-dose acidophilus and probiotics with every meal? That's what I do, and I thought I was protected and safe from gut disasters.
Posts: 1226 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044
posted
your never safe from abx induced yeast and other infections.
you can not take enough probiotics to replace the missing ones the abx kill. second with reduced norma flora you increase the risk of viral and related infections.
norma flora is in a specific ration in our body, that is controlled by your immune system. any variance whatsoever causes an imbalance in the system and coinfections occur.
one idea is to use diflucan and acyclovir while one abx. this is what i used to control coinfections and has worked fairly weel.
docdave
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
It depends on your system too. I have been on abx 8 years with no yeast issues!!!!!!!! I am generally conscientious about prophylaxis though!!!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
H. Pylori is impacted by Na levels.
TNF alpha opens Na epithelial cell channels (these cells line our blood vessels). Sodium in, potassium out.
Bb needs NaCl for motility...it "tricks" us into supplying what it needs...
Na + Cl + an ongoing glucose supply...just certain kinds of glucose though!
From WebMD:
"May 30, 2007 - A high-salt diet isn't just bad for your blood pressure -- it could trigger an ulcer or even increase the risk of gastric cancer, new lab studies suggest.
Why? Salt apparently riles up the poorly understood bacteria known as Helicobacter pylori.
The H. pylori bug causes the vast majority of stomach and duodenal ulcers -- and greatly increases a person's risk of gastric cancer and a form of lymphoma called MALT.
D. Scott Merrell, PhD, Hanan Gancz, PhD, and colleagues at the Uniformed University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., note that people who eat a lot of salty food seem to get more severe stomach diseases than other people. When they exposed H. pylori cultures to salt, the bugs got stressed out.
"Stressed bacteria react more violently to their environment," Gancz tells WebMD.
"What they do then is to make their environment more hospitable to them -- and worse for us." The salt-exposed H. pylori pumped up the action of virulence genes.
The more active these genes are, researchers suspect, the more dangerous the bacteria.
"The obvious implication is that decreasing the amount of salt in our diet would reduce our chances, if we are infected with H. pylori, of developing severe gastric disease," Merrell tells WebMD.
"Our next step is to find which H. pylori genes are needed to survive in the environment. If we can find them, they might be good targets for a therapeutic drug."
Merrell and Gancz reported the findings at this month's annual meeting of the American Society for Microbiology in Toronto.
Gastroenterologist Lawrence Saubermann, MD, of the University of Rochester, N.Y., notes that H. pylori is a common infection. For reasons still not understood, most people infected with the bug never develop ulcers or H. pylori-related cancers.
"Nobody can predict whether the organism will cause disease," Saubermann tells WebMD. "There are those who have H. pylori all their lives and have no trouble. What causes some people to develop complications from it is not clear."
Doctors don't usually test patients for H. pylori infection unless a person shows signs of having an ulcer.
But if the infection is detected, patients usually receive treatment. Treatment means using at least two strong antibiotics and a double-strength antacid pill.
That's a little bit scary, as doctors expect that with more and more people getting treated, antibiotic-resistant H. pylori strains will appear.
This is why Saubermann hopes that Merrell, Gancz, and other researchers succeed in finding out why -- and when -- H. pylori starts causing disease.
SOURCES: 107th General Meeting of the American Society for Microbiology, Toronto, Ontario, Canada, May 22, 2007. D. Scott Merrell, PhD, assistant professor, Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences, Bethesda, Md. Hanan Gancz, PhD, postdoctoral fellow, Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences, Bethesda, Md. Lawrence Saubermann, MD, associate professor of medicine, University of Rochester, N.Y."
Posts: 9435 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
I've been taking probiotics (good quality, multiple strains) regularly throughout my abx treatment and have always been quite pleased that I have had no yeast problems. And then I just ended up with c. diff colitis. So I guess we can't be too careful.
In hindsight (no pun intended), I would have wanted to have been as concerned about the c. diff as I was about yeast. It just seems it isn't discussed as much.
monkeyshines
Posts: 343 | From Northern VA | Registered: Oct 2004
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stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044
posted
monkeyshine: i would consider a test for systemic yeast. many of us low lifes on the board think that treating for yeast ,may cure your symptoms, . this means that the longer symptoms may be from long term systemic yeast and fungi and not lyme.
i look a 8 week supply of vfend. felt 100% better after 2 weeks. added acyclovir,vfend, doxy , zithro and plaquenil for the last 6 weeks and went into remission.
been in remission for 4 months now. had not had a remission or even close in 3 years prior.
search posts on systemic yeast by myself, marnie, bettyg and others.
docdave
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
Hopefully, you are taking your probiotics at least 2 hours before or after you take your antibiotics. Otherwise, your antibiotics will kill the good bacteria in your probiotic.
You might want to check out Theralac or Ultra Flora probiotics...they are good.
Yeast can raise havoc with us and C-Diff. can be life threatening. You got some good advice from others.
Good luck!
-------------------- nan Posts: 2135 | From Tick Country | Registered: Oct 2000
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
Wow Stymie! I didn't know you were in remission.
Good for you!!!!
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Here's a meta-analysis of probiotics for gut problems including C. diff. 25 clinical trials were included in the analysis.
Meta-analysis of probiotics for the prevention of antibiotic associated diarrhea and the treatment of Clostridium difficile disease.
McFarland LV. Am J Gastroenterol. 2006 Apr;101(4):812-22.
CONTEXT: Antibiotic-associated diarrhea (AAD) is a common complication of most antibiotics and Clostridium difficile disease (CDD), which also is incited by antibiotics, is a leading cause of nosocomial outbreaks of diarrhea and colitis...
OBJECTIVE: To compare the efficacy of probiotics for the prevention of AAD and the treatment of CDD based on the published randomized, controlled clinical trials.
STUDY SELECTION: Trials were included in which specific probiotics given to either prevent or treat the diseases of interest. Trials were required to be randomized, controlled, blinded efficacy trials in humans published in peer-reviewed journals...
CONCLUSION: A variety of different types of probiotics show promise as effective therapies for these two diseases. Using meta-analyses, three types of probiotics - Saccharomyces boulardii, Lactobacillus rhamnosus GG, and probiotic mixtures - significantly reduced the development of antibiotic-associated diarrhea. Only S. boulardii was effective for CDD.
(Lactobacillus rhamnosus GG = Culturelle. Products like Theralac fall under "probiotic mixtures", I guess.)
Posts: 621 | From US | Registered: Jun 2006
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Here's a twist.
Adequate B6 lowers prolactin levels in the blood. (corrects hyperprolactemia)
"A vitamin B6-deficiency in Lactobacillus plantarum markedly
reduces the amount of glutamate and other amino acids
which can be taken up and accumulated from buffered solutions."
(Re-read those first 2 sentences.)
In lyme...glutamate is too high. The glutamate receptors (NMDA) are "gated" by Mg, zinc, glycine and glutamate.
It should be obvious to many of you that the first 3 are deficient...
The gate is broken.
Prolactin is RIGHT NOW in immediate test mode because:
Prolactin "spontaneously restored the myelin sheath in mice"...
Went right to human trials (Feb., 2007)
I wish I could use arrows...
Adequate B6 = low prolactin blood levels
LOW B6 = high prolactin - myelin sheath restored/preserved
LOW B6 (in lactobacillus) = LOWER glutamate
Another protective mechanism happening. See it?
CoQ10 (enzyme to carry hydrogen INTO the mitochondria) is also dependent on B6...
"Low Circulating Vitamin B6 Is Associated With Elevation of the Inflammation Marker C-Reactive Protein Independently of Plasma Homocysteine Levels"
Mindboggling, isn't it?!
Posts: 9435 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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