bejoy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11129
posted
Do I have to take this tooth out, and then ruin two other good teeth to make a bridge? Sounds risky.
I think I'd be better off missing a tooth. Do implants work, or would that cause me more problems?
I've had the root canal done twice because they missed part of the root the first time.
When I use the silver pulser the swelling and pain subside, but I quit using it for about two weeks and an obvious infection is back.
I read something about ozone injections. Anybody?
bejoy
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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CaliforniaLyme
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Get thee to a dentist*)!)*!)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We are not dentists here!*)*)!*! Well, not all of us, and the one who is shouldn't be giving medical advice and risking liability~!!)
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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kelmo
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Member # 8797
posted
I agree with CaliforniaLyme, get to a dentist. I had a root canal that never felt right, and there was some deep infection in the tissues that wouldn't heal because of it, so I ended up having the tooth pulled and getting a bridge.
I cried through the whole process because I was so proud of my teeth, and wanted to be buried with all originals.
I guess I should've died the day before, huh?
Anyway, I'm still here, and losing one tooth was better than losing more.
That was my experience, but you need to get a professional opinion.
I know you know we aren't dentist but you probably wanted to hear what others with lyme have done.
I had a root canal bothering me that would flare up at different times. It got to the point where it felt infected so I decided to go to a biological dentist (she herself had lyme and is well now) and she sent me straight over to the surgeon and he took it out.
I felt like if I had gone to my regular dentist she would've sent me to the same person who did the root canal and he would've taken off the crown, cleaned it up and put it back on.
After reading GiGi's topics on this, and from the advice of this biological dentist, I decided that was what I wanted to do.
It's a back tooth with a tooth on each side. My regular dentist who was very sweet about me seeing the biological dentist (because she understands my lyme issues) said I should maybe wait awhile before deciding on an implant or bridge (don't think I want to go the implant route). She said I shouldn't wait too long though.
I would like to get a little better before doing anything else to it.
GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Sarah, I will take my chance here and jeopardize my laywoman's liability!
Bejoy, yes, go to a dentist, but not to just any old dentist. But a dentist that has learned that root canals create horrible toxins for the body to deal with.
I started with one root canal many years ago. When this dead tooth finally gave out (it is a dead tooth), I got a bridge - just as you talked about. It didn't take many years before one of the stressed teeth holding the bridge needed a root canal. When that root canal gave up, I had a bridge over four teeth. And it went on and on from there. Rootfilled teeth are dead teeth!
That was the manner in which I ended up with many root canals, with the possiblity of one causing enough problems to put me in a wheelchair. I have a patient friend who got out of her wheelchair after removing a single root canal from her mouth. She has been well ever since.
You already answered your own question.
Leaving a gap is also not desirable because all the teeth will eventually be affected by a poor bite, affecting longterm everything else in the body. Your back. Drainage/ clearing of toxins.
Putting an implant into body with microbial infections is not a good idea. I had one and I had to lose it to survive Lyme Disease.
Research a well made partial out of material you are not allergic to. That would be my choice if I had to face that problem again.
You will find a few thousand posts here on teeth and root canals.
I had an infected root-canal that gave me shooting pains down to my toes!
I had an apecoectomy (drilled through jaw bone to trim posts) that was awful and not worth it in the long run.
They ultimately pulled the tooth and a long-standing sinus infection left within 30 minutes of the extraction!
I haven't replaced the tooth with a bridge or an implant. I'm thinking about a partial...but it's been three years of Lyme-ed-ness.
curious to see what your choices are...
Best of luck,
wiserforit
Posts: 508 | From Banks of the Hudson | Registered: Jul 2006
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bejoy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
Thanks everybody for your input, and Gigi, for all the links.
I'm asking on this board because I think a dental infection for someone with active lyme is a bigger deal than for your average dental patient.
I want to hear about your experiences and I want your advice. Then I'll go forth to a good dentist and be able to ask the right questions.
I have a good dentist who doesn't use amalgams, but he doesn't know much about lyme. Fortunately I had all the amalgams removed years ago, so that's handled.
This does sound as complex as I thought. I really don't want to take down more teeth with this one.
It also pains me to take out a tooth that has had so very very much expensive attention given to keep it intact. Oh well.
What is a partial? Do they have to mess with a good tooth to put one in? Can anyone briefly describe their experience having one made and living with one?
bejoy
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Look into Maryland bridges - they are bridges that don't require destroying healthy teeth to attach them. If my root canaled-now crowned tooth ever starts to give me trouble, I may go that route.
-------------------- Getting older is when we would rather not have a good time than have to get over it. - Oscar Wilde Posts: 386 | From Radnor, PA - where the ticks run free | Registered: May 2006
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
The beauty of a partial is that one can, if you should be so unfortunate as to lose another tooth, attach the replacement tooth/teeth to the same partial with less expense. Even if it is on the other side of the mouth. There are people who wear a partial upper and lower.
Maybe someone will come up with a better invention some day. I know they are doing ceramic implants in Germany and some people are traveling overthere to have it done. But it is costly and time consuming. Bone loss is a problem if waiting too long and the infection is spreading. I would never ever go to the length I did trying to save a tooth no matter what!
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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MagicAcorn
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posted
California Lyme said; We are not dentists here!*)*)!*! Well, not all of us, and the one who is shouldn't be giving medical advice and risking liability~!!) I think Doc Dave safely can give advice on an infected root canal. Since he actually went to dental school he probably should be the only one on this site talking teeth.
I know Gigi will say no but I'd get the implant. In fact I'll have quite a bunch of implants in about four months time. Dentistry is expensive but the longer you wait the faster the cost rises in pain and dollars. I know.
I had major extensive mouth surgery and have done well. I did relapse but my LLMD was there and helped me out.
-------------------- Posts: 1279 | From In hiding | Registered: Feb 2006
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bejoy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11129
posted
I talked to my dentist today, and he recommends a partial that is like a tooth replacement that attaches to the teeth next to it by some wires.
That sounds pretty good to me.
I've got an appointment in two weeks to get the monster out of there, and I'm on the list to get it done sooner if possible.
If I'm doing this much better while still dealing with an infected tooth, I can't wait to find out how much better I might feel in acouple of weeks!
Thanks again everybody for your input. Its good to hear experiences and opinions from many different angles!
I'm still curious if anyone has experience with ozone dental therapy, or if I might need
something in addition to the extraction to clean things up.
I want to make sure and get rid of all of the dental infection so my body can get back to focusing on lyme.
bejoy
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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Cobweb
Unregistered
posted
Poor Baby !
Hope your feeling better soon.
I've had several infected teeth and subsequent root canals. Even keeping with an every 6 month schedule of visits. My teeth also break easily-on peanuts, gummy bears, oatmeal.
I asked him once if this was usual for someone so young????(it's all relative) He said "no". At my last appointment he told me I am taking too many medications-so I asked him which ones I should cut out? He didn't have an answer.
Don't want to minimize your pain-tooth pain is agonizing. I feel for you. Take care. Keep us posted.
stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
i will jeopardize my license also, since i no longer have one but do have liability insurance. never been sued in 23 years.
so here goes from a dentist and information from gigi, yes gigi i do read your papers and make my own decisions., as you have done with the information.
first root canal 90% success rate. redo root canal 50% success rate. third time extract period. ist time success depends on vital or necrotic tooth to begin with and how the root canal is done.
so extraction is the answer to question 1. 2) extraction must be done by an oral surgeon that can totally remove residual cycts that are in the bone. these areas must be curretted and irrigated to remove abscess and toxins. 3) replacement. first option. maryland bridge , if done correctly will work. 2 one tooth partial, very dangerous and can be swallowed and aspirated into the lungs. 3 titanium implants with hydroxy apatite coating have had excellent success over the past 5 years with a very high success rate. i did hundreds of them when i was a dentist with not one loss of implant.
when the tooth is removed ask the doc to look for crack in tooth. this is the major reason for root canal failures beside poor root canal treatment.
good luck.
don not have immediate implant placement into diseased tooth socket. bone must heal prior to implant 4 months.
docdave,univ of md dental school, residency USPHS Staen island NY 96 grade, cheif dental services USPHS savannah ,ga. Private practice 23 years.
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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bejoy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11129
posted
Thanks Carol,
Nice picture! It doesn't hurt much really, but it's talking to me enough to let me know that it's got to be stressing the adrenals and immune system.
Time to send it to the tooth fairy. Does she bring money for adult teeth? They're bigger!
Doc Dave:
Thanks for your reply and advice. Can you tell me what a Maryland Bridge is?
I want to go to my regular dentist who I trust not to dose me up on epinephrine or expose me to too many chemicals.
He does extractions, and is very experienced, but is not specifically a surgeon. What questions should I ask to make sure he is capable of doing the job completely?
If I were to get an implant, how long do you think I could wait before getting it done? Is there any time limit?
Available funds are currently going towards lyme treatment or emergencies, and I think I'd be looking at much more than four months, given the option.
Thanks for your information, feedback and advice!!!
bejoy
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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stymielymie
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posted
first if you want an implant the extraction should be done by an oral surgeon, why medical reasons , post op complications, and minimal destruction of the implant site.
preop clindamycin150 tid x 5 days 2 before and 3 after will prevent flareup of lyme.
docdave
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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bejoy
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Member # 11129
posted
Doc Dave, You rock!
Thanks for the info. Just made an appointment with an oral surgeon.
Don't know yet what I'll do for a replacement, but now I know I'll be set up for success.
bejoy
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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Health
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Member # 6034
posted
I have my FRONT tooth out, it was a root canal put in at age 13 or 14. I had it removed because 2 of the ND's said it was causing a problem with my immune system.
I had it extracted by a Biologial Dentist, was supposed to be the best in the City. I had the front tooth replaced and attached with WINGS to the other 2 teeth beside it.
So there, is a hole up there.
I had this done about 8 years ago.
I still got sick with lyme. Back then I was working, and strong as can be. I later found out I had lyme about 4 years later.
So, I dont know what to tell you. I got very sick 2 weeks after the tooth was removed. I was supposed to take a 10 day course of the antibitoics from this Dentists, but it was Penicillin and I am allergic to it, he did not give me another.
I went for the IV vitman C, wrong choice I feel.
I know many healthy people with root canals, my parents have them, a few each, and are healthy.
I think maybe? if you have lyme you need them out? I dont know. I dont know how I would be feeling if I did not have the root canal out.
Maybe because my body was so overburdened from the lyme, it could not handle a root canal.
I know that I could not take birth control pills when I had the root canal out, I threw up from them.
Too many toxins I had, I could not even take tylenol, got sooo sick from it.
ALSO, I wanted to say, that the Dentist took my tooth when it was out, and put it in this machine, and this machine made the same tooth out of porcelain. Then this tooth was put in beside the other teeth, did not get put into the hole, and then it was attached
with porcelain to the other 2 front teeth.
ANYONE else have this done? the machine was from Germany the Dentist said, and was computerized. I wonder if this is safe?
I saw a Mercury free Dentist in my town now, and he said that it was safe, anyone else have this done?
All this and all that, no wonder it is good to have an ART practioner, takes the guessing and insanity out of, could it be this? or that???? or this? or that. Trish
Posts: 1250 | From Canada | Registered: Aug 2004
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My husband has been having laser treatment for periodontal disease and the dentist doing the treatments says he now needs a root canal or pull one of his back teeth that is one side of an anchor for a bridge. (BTW - the gum is sunken below the bridge where he had a tooth pulled about 5 yrs ago.)
The Dentist wants to extract the tooth and lazer the socket because if a surgeon does it, the surgeon will not get all the infection & toxins out trying to grind the socket out (my rough terminology, cause I can't remember how he said it). Basically he was saying surgeons don't get all the infection out when extracting teeth (or going in later to remove infected bone)and that is why lazer is better and the cost is way less. What do you think?
Since hubby has periodontal disease, is it likely he has an infection going on in the bone from the prior extraction done by our former dentist (who didn't explain that hubby had periodontal disease).
I guess the lazer treatments he has had for the periodontal disease do not get that deep or are not set to go that deep?? His gums are looking much better and his "pockets" have decreased dramatically!
The current dentist says that he will be able to tell if that prior extraction site has an infection going on when he extracts this molar beside it. I beleive that is what he is telling me.
And since hubby will be missing the last 2 molars on that bottom side, it looks like he will have to go with implants - no other good option, correct??
-------------------- God's mercies are new every morning.
Karla Posts: 85 | From KANSAS | Registered: Jul 2006
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stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044
posted
not real familiar with lazers. they had not been a reality till after i stopped practice. there are 2 types of lazers hot and cold.
cold lazers are used to remove decay and provide space for a filling. hot lazers are like cauterizing scapels. they cauterize and kill bacteria as they cut.
i would venture to believe both would kill any bacteria either in teeth ,gums and inside bone due to the pulsing nature of the lazer.
they can do lazer eye treatment in 3 minutes without any infection with a sterile field.
the problem with using a lazer in a previous socket is that it can not distinguish between bone and granulation tissue. too much lazer could cause necrosis of the underlying bone, i would think.
will it work, i would believe yes, as long as care is taken. might even want to consider artificial bone matrix to get quicker bone growth for the implant.
do not do immediate implants into extraction site.
discuss all this with the oral surgeon, and it sounds like you found a very very knowledgeable one, good for you.
docdave
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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bejoy
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Member # 11129
posted
Hi Doc Dave,
Hoping for a little more advice.
I got the root canal tooth pulled yesterday. It was a pretty tough one to get out.
The oral surgeon says he saw no obvious infection or cysts.
I realized today that there was a sinus opening and I went back in and got two collagen plugs put in.
He says it should heal itself within four to six months.
My husband's cousin who is an oral surgeon says this is a serious condition that may need surgery. He says I should get it checked weekly. Your thoughts?
My oral surgeon is not familiar with lyme. He gave me clindamycin as you suggested, 250mg TID, (although I didn't do the two days preop.)
I have seven days worth of clindamycin plus a refill. How many days would you suggest taking it under these circumstances.
I wonder if I should pulse some flagyl with this to avoid C. diff.
I have avoided abx up to this point for several reasons, including that my gut was not up to tolerating orals. I think I can handle it right now for a round or two if I'm careful.
I am not currently on any other prescription abx, but am taking several herbals, including berberis, artemisia, hydrastine and teasel.
I have been taking an herbal, Gentian, for the dental infection. I'm also on cortef for adrenals.
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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stymielymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10044
posted
clidamycin has an affinity for the mouth, teeth and bones of the mouth.
oral -sinus fistulas are a problem but not usually dangerous unless gets infected.
all infection in the mid face area, lips to eyes drains thru the brain and can cause major problems.
this is why abx is important before and after.
oral-sinus(antral) fistulas should be closed by primary closure.
this means the oral surgeon should have loosened the skin on both sides of the extraction and pulled them up to totally close the wound site. this is called primary closure, and is the recommended choice of any wound closure. he canstill go back in a do this if it becomes necessary.
docdave
Posts: 1820 | From Boone and Southport, NC | Registered: Sep 2006
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