posted
got short paragraph from pcp; he noted i have cariovascular disease; what is that?
arthritis crp was elevated at 2.8; normal to 1.0.
your h.s. crp, which is the cardiac crp was 24.8; average is to 3.0.
above 3.0 is high; so this indicates an increased risk of cariovacular disease. **********************************
also, vitamin B12 level was high at 2,000; we worry that b12 level is too low. i was on b12 shots from july to end of nov. 06.
rn's, doess his mean:
heart attacks and strokes?
last night i could barely type and hands were not cooperating since i've not been able to use my left hand and writing for last 3 days ... after entering those 140 names total on 2 lyme petitions; uffda.
sorry for all typose; right now pinkie and ring finger are feeling better but just throb in bed and can't find a comfy spot to lay them for any length of time.
now i'll start reading below; hurts to much to capitalize so it's lower case for awhile for me to heal injuries.
lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
Hey there Betty,
judging from the way you typed this news it's got you shook up!
Take it easy...
This probably means you have some plaque type cholesterol build up in your veins that service your heart!
zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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C-Reactive Protein (CRP)can be a marker of infection, inflammation, trauma, or risk of cardiovascular disease.
It is normally present at a very low level in healthy people.
C-reactive protein (CRP) is a sensitive marker of inflammation. As such it has for a long time been used to distinguish bacterial infections from viral infections, assess the severity of tissue damage and monitor antibiotic treatment. Recently CRP has also been shown to be useful in predicting the risk of cardiovascular events.
An acute-phase inflammatory response occurs as the human body mounts a systemic response to tissue injury caused by infectious, noninfectious, chemical, physical, or immunologic toxins.
CRP is a type of acute phase protein that is regulated by cytokines. (Upregulation of cytokines occurs during tissue damage, inflammation, illness, etc.)
Any pathological condition associated with invasive bacterial infection, inflammation or tissue destruction is accompanied by elevation of the CRP level in the patient's serum.
Very high CRP levels sometimes indicate severe inflammation or infection, such as in bacterial menningitis. (This was me.) Mildly elevated CRP levels are sometimes from viral infections and noninfectious causes.
CRP is a useful serum marker to assess and monitor the presence, severity, and course of the inflammatory response in infectious and noninfectious disorders, including acute myocardial infarction, angina, malignancies, rheumatoid arthritis, inflammatory bowel disease, burns, and trauma, and after surgical procedures.
There are different ways to measure CRP. Qualitative, semiquanitative, and quantitative. It is important to know how the test was done and what type of CRP the lab uses because some are not as accurate. Quantitative is the most sensitive and rapid method. Qualitative and semiquant. are not accurate enough so they don't use that test with infants.
CRP is not only a marker of severe infection and trauma but can also be used to predict a risk of developing cardiovascular disease. Even minimally increased CRP values (2-3 mg/l) double the risk of future atherothrombotic events, compared with CRP values of approx. 1 mg/l.
CRP in myocardial infarction (heart attack)
CRP rises in acute myocardial infarction, correlating positively with infarct size in the absence of thrombolytic treatment. The CRP response is lower in patients with an open infarct-related coronary artery than in patients with a fully occluded infarctrelated coronary artery. Serum CRP concentration averages 160 mg/l in extensive infarction and 40 mg/l in limited infarction.
CRP is also an independent predictor of survival after ischaemic stroke. Survival has been found to be significantly worse in patients with CRP exceeding approx. 10 mg/l than in those with CRP less than 10 mg/l.
Mild elevation in serum CRP has recently been shown to predict atherosclerotic diseases.
**So what does all this mean? Because you have diabetes you are at risk for cardiovascular disease and stroke. An elevated CRP could mean inflammation, infection, or atherslerosis issues.
If your doctor feels that your elevated CRP is not related to your inflammation or infection and feels it is cardiovascular, he should be doing some further testing. I think I remember that you had an area of ischemia on your brain that showed you had a previous stroke. The doc should be following up on this with monitoring your cholesterol levels, clotting times, ECG, bp checks, calcium channel scoring, and possibly stress tests or carotid ultrasounds.
Also keeping your glucose under control is very important.
Now if your CRP indicates infection that is another story.
Hope this helps.
-------------------- **Eat Chocolate** Posts: 942 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2005
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Vermont_Lymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9780
posted
Hi Betty,
Hope you are OK, sending healing thoughts your way.
I am no expert, so you should speak with your llmd, pcp, and knowledgeable folks here about this: but if your CRP levels are a problem, aren't there nutritional approaches (pharmaceutical approaches) to lowering them? Take care and keep us posted! Posts: 2557 | From home | Registered: Aug 2006
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One reason your CRP is high COULD be from the inflammation produced by chronic Lyme.
Hope it isn't due to heart disease! You don't need that!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
everyone,
a heartfelt thank you to all who responded with info and good wishes; it's very much appreciated.
imanurse, wow, what detailed info you gave; i understood a lot of it except for atherslerosis issues; that word i don't understand.
imanurse, i showed the numbers above in 1st post that were shown in my brief letter; what does that mean to you?
quoting imanurse... Very high CRP levels sometimes indicate severe inflammation or infection, such as in bacterial menningitis. (This was me.)
what were your symptoms of bacterial menningitis? i've read of others especially another Iowan w/menningitis.
Also, had a cartoid ultrasound several years ago and it showed plague present but NOT enough for surer. Since my numbers are higher now, is this something in your RN mind that you would pursue?
my blood sugar is under control; had it down to 6.0 on a1c recently.
yes, i've got some type of infection/inflammation that has not been found to date! llmd couldn't find it in total body tests she had done in april/may 06; so wanted me to redo these tests 3 mo. after my ER visit for severe chest pains in heart!
mri this summer/fall showed 1 area where md noted old dried blood for a long time; can't remember rest of what was said; darn lyme effecting my memory.
meds ... done with 90% of supplementals of 22 llmd prescribed. still on nattokinse, pro boost, co q 10, chelated magnesium, and nystatin plus acidophilus
RX meds down to ... thyroid synthroid, baclofen muscle relaxer, diabetes glyburide, and zoloft/mood swing med, and occasionally for my panic attacks alphazoram
can't believe how these supplements have made me so FATIGUED ALL THE TIME; no get up and go; it just got up and went!
Tony, yes, I'm deeply concerned about this as I need to schedule left hip replacement surgery and they are booked till Feb/March 07.
I had hoped to get it done before 12-31 since I'd met my deductible for the year! no way; only 1 MD does this type of surgery locally. we live 5 minutes from hospital/clinic and I read i'd be in hospital for 1 week adjusting and getting PT promptly so can't see driving 30+ miles/60 miles RT for dear hubby. again, THANKS ALL!
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quote:Originally posted by bettyg: yes, i've got some type of infection/inflammation that has not been found to date!
Lyme disease
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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savebabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9847
posted
At 26 my CRP was through the roof. The ducks could not understand why my titers were so high. For me it signified acute inflammation withing the past 24 hours. It could also been an indicator for vascular disease, but in my case lyme was the culprit. Continued treatment for babs and lyme brought it back down to normal levels. Feel better.
Posts: 1603 | From ny | Registered: Aug 2006
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dontlikeliver
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4749
posted
I'm glad this topic's come up. I just had mine done also and my hs-CRP was 5.6, which is in RED and classified as 'at risk for heart event'....however, it seems 5.6 is not that high after all, Betty yours is so much higher. I don't know what that means.
My cholesterol was 230, but I was not fasting. Don't you usually have to fast for a Cholesterol test, I can't see how it's accurate if not.
I really don' tknow what it all means, but my LLMD is talking Actos and Statins. Not sure I'm ready for that yet, or convinced it's needed and reading this thread, I'm even less convinced as perhaps it is just infection related not not really heart disease at all.
DLL
Posts: 2824 | From The Back of Beyond | Registered: Oct 2003
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
i've posted my heart crp numbers on 1st post now.
lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
Hey there Betty...
Really sucks don't it!
I am tired all the time and I'm not on that zoloft and alphazoram combination...those plus muscle relaxer can't possibly do your energy any favors..
I do the glyburide now too...with recent diabetes diag....
Funny thing my wife came up with an indication of infection in her somewhere and the ducks still have'nt found out where...
go figure ducks.....they tell ya something and can't figure what it is that's causing it!
A cardiocath I had done is a relative piece of cake.... OR maybe they can do it with catscans or mri's now... Too bad you're not a mummy...they wast enough money on dead folks with their fancy machines...
If there's any consolation I have heard hips are a 100 percent easier than knees...
Never had a hip but two knee replacements...and I can tell you I did not have an easy time of it...
I'll bet you are having a bad reaction to this test cuz of interference with either the lyme or medications...
BUT...you never know..I wish you the best and hope you can locate the problem...
zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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Geneal
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10375
posted
Dear Bettg,
I don't know much about cardio issues, but I wanted you to know I am sending you all of my positive thoughts and prayers.
Hang in there. I will be praying for you. I know how scary the suspicion of a heart issue is.
I just had a nuclear stress test as an echo-doppler showed multiple problems. I was petrified.
My stress test showed everything normal. Thank-God. My little sister is a Cardiac-care RN. I will try to run your info by her today and let you know what she says.
My cardiologist, who was referred to me by my sister, was a doll. Very compassionate. Not LLMD literate, but wonderful just the same.
Will be praying for you and your family. Take care.
Geneal
Posts: 6250 | From Louisiana | Registered: Oct 2006
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I see now that it is your cardiac CRP which does indicate risk for heart and stroke. Again, there is a huge correlation between diabetes and cardiovascular issues.
There is also the possibility that Lyme can damage the heart.
Having a previous stroke, diabetes, and positive finding of plaque, and recent chest pains in the ER would mean to me you might need a cardiac consultation or work up. YOu need to let your primary doc know you are on nattokinase too since you have had a previous stroke.
Ask your doc about the following:
Do I need a heart echocardiogram which looks at the function of the heart?
Do I need another recheck of carotid ultrasound that showed plaque years ago?
What were the results of my last cholesterol numbers and should I be on cholesterol reducing medication?
What about my blood pressure? Meds?
What are the signs of a heart attack or stroke that I need to seek medical attention for?
Check out the Iowa Heart Center. I go there and am in my 30's only. (Lyme damage) www.iowaheart.com
-------------------- **Eat Chocolate** Posts: 942 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
I also just noted that your LLMD said you are done with Lyme treatment and you have not been on antibiotics in some time.
Spirochetes love the heart and cause inflammation in the body. Just something to consider.
-------------------- **Eat Chocolate** Posts: 942 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2005
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
Tony and Geneal, thanks for your support and comments.
imanurse, THANK YOU again for more useful comments and questions to ask my pcp soon, and the link on iowa heart center.
i took Dad to methodist, DM location for many years, and would see the pumping of his heart and them explaining to me what was happening with him. Dad had 2 mitral valve pig replacements; so i learned early how critical heart disease is if not taken care of properly.
i'll check into your suggestions, and very grateful your RN expertise; thanks again!
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AliG
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9734
posted
Betty-
So sorry you're going through this. I'm glad Ima's here to help you with the technical info.
All I've got is this:
. . . . . . . ..
I'm glad you've got your sugar under control. My FIL has diabetes and just recently found out about taking a 1/2 tsp of cinnamon in am to keep sugar steady. It's been working very well for him.
I wish I had something else to offer besides my prayers. You always have those.
hugs, Ali
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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That very test is what set off my PCP in 2004 in what led to our extensive search to find out what is wrong with me.
My understanding of this test is that under 3 is normal, over 3 up to 10 is an indication of potential heart disease and stroke risk.
Over 10 is considered an indication of inflammation in the body of an unknown source.
My doctor's first question to me then was "do you have an arthritic condition of some kind?"
That led to me going to the rhuemy, told I had RA, then that was ruled out, then I got the fibro label.
I was checked top to bottom. Heart workup and all, and everything checked out. Other than some of my other numbers being out of whack too. The whole lipid panel including glucose testing, slightly elevated. But nothing "bad" enough to treat other than be told I had to live a more healthy lifestyle, loose some weight (I'm really not that big, but started out pretty skinny so have had about a 60 lb weight gain - size 8 up to 18 at my biggest).
The bite is, I do not know anyone who could possible live a healthier lifestyle than I have my entire life. As a general rule anyway.
I eat fresh fruit and veggies every day. I eat mainly chicken, fish and other sources of protein that are not red meat. I take all my vitamins. I walk about three miles a day when I'm not down with crippling pain. I exercise and stretch in other ways most days.
Nothing made sense.
Then they found MASSIVE inflammation in my colon. I had over a foot of my colon (all of the sigmoid and about 6 inches or more of the descending) removed in September of 2005. Diverticulitis was the diagnosis, but all my GI workup pointed toward not only current inflammation and massive infection there, but loads of evidence of previous incidents and chronic infection.
Then the testing began for Chrons and other inflammatory bowel stuff. All ruled out.
I think it has been lyme all along, or some other tick borne illness. Every 3-5 years, some part of me gets massively inflammed. In 2001 it was a massive kidney infection, 4 days in the hospital then. But nothing would grow in the cultures even though the urine workups showed large amounts of bacteria.
I'm rambling now.
My main point is that with each of these weird massive infections, my numbers get all goofy. Sed rat elevates, HS-RCP (the test you mention here) goes sky high, lipids get goofy, sugar gets goofy, I go on antibiotics for the massive infection du jour, and then I'm okay again for 3-5 years other than the cyclical monthly flare ups that the doc says is "just hormones. . ."
Anyhow, long story short, this test if the numbers are over 10 indicates inflammation of an unknown origin - and sometimes that origin is never found, especially if you are stuck with a doc who will not think outside of the little box his great big health cooperative puts him in. Took mine 15 months to make itself known in my colon that time around. And it literally almost killed me. Now at least he pays attention when I say I don't feel good. . .
God bless, Moosie
-------------------- Trying to figure it all out. Posts: 38 | From Spanaway, WA | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by imanurse: I also just noted that your LLMD said you are done with Lyme treatment and you have not been on antibiotics in some time.
Spirochetes love the heart and cause inflammation in the body. Just something to consider.
I agree.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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kelmo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8797
posted
I'm bringing this subject back up because I went for my followup visit today with my daughter's LLMD. I had bloodwork done due to fatigue and night seizures.
It showed a positive 41 band, and that's all. My blood smear was clean with the exception of a few bartonella.
However, My CRP was 5.3. Anything above 3 puts you at risk for heart attack.
Anyone have an elevated CRP and have it return to normal with Lyme treatment?
I'm going to start zithromax today and have been taking artemesia for the past two weeks with herx symptoms.
posted
An elevated CRP means you are having inflammation. Inflammation can be associated with cardiovascular disease. It doesn't mean you difinitely have it but does mean your inflammatory marker is elevated, so you are at risk.
Posts: 340 | From Ohio | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
My son who is 11 was diagnosed with Lyme in 2005, we have been monitoring his CRP, which has increased while on treatment- last check he was at 8.9. He was tested for RA and Lupus, both came back negative. He was recently tested and I didn't get the exact name of the test, but he tested very positive for "sensitivity to Inflammation", which obviously with a CRP of almost 9 makes sense. He is currently taking, rifampin, minocin, biaxin,plaquenil, flexeril, and of course probiotic and he will go for another blood test in July to see what his CRP is.
posted
Hang in there, Betty! Am sure all these numbers relate to your lyme. I just went through heart tests because I went to ER with atrial fibrillation.
The cardiologist actually told me he thought the AF was due to a flare up of the lyme!
My heart is fine according to all the tests.
Peace to you!
-------------------- nan Posts: 2135 | From Tick Country | Registered: Oct 2000
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Cobweb
Unregistered
posted
Hey Nan-birds of a feather! I spent most of Tues in ER, too having tests-conclusion? Lyme Disease. I thought I was going to die. but I live to tell the tale.
Betty-never ending heh? Amazing . We are indeed Lyme Warriors. Save the last dance for me.
posted
Betty, My thoughts and prayers are with you!! I'm sorry but I don't remeber, why aren't you still being treated for Lyme??
Hugs!! Kathy
-------------------- You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have. Posts: 807 | From South Dakota | Registered: Jul 2005
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
nan, kathy, and carol,
thank you all for your best wishes, but there has been a misunderstanding.
i was commenting on the high numers of OTHERS WHO POSTED above my comment; sorry; but good wishes are always accepted even if in error!
quote:Originally posted by aiden424: Betty, I'm sorry but I don't remeber, why aren't you still being treated for Lyme?? Hugs!!Kathy
kathy, iwas on 20 mo. of pulsed abx; then 2nd llmd took me off them, and put me on her 22 supplemnts which made me WORSE. i'm still in constant fatigue plus recuperating from my march hip surgery .... fatigue very frequent for me with naps 3-4 times a day/night time even before i come on here late at night!
i'm just trying to deal with other things wrong with me, then will pursue again lyme specifically. BG.
quoting cobweb carol
Betty-never ending heh? Amazing . We are indeed Lyme Warriors. Save the last dance for me . Carol
carol, cute! tincup's stick man gets my 1st dance, and you want the LAST dance! as if my poor aching body could even think about dancing right now. a woman at nursing home mentioned dancing to me just before i left there before lymenet!! coincidence huh!
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