Topic: For Herbalists and those interested in alternative therapies
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
The following is 9 pages printed out. It has to do with curcumin.
It is several days' worth of research on my part.
The chemical, curcumin is found in tumeric. Tumeric is found in the spice, curry. This chemical, curcumin, is currently being tried to treat many diseases and there are NUMEROUS (!) abstracts about it on Pubmed this year (2007). Below I will simply list information I have found without links unless I feel they are critical (to save space). I will try to be as concise as possible.
Before I go any further, I need to make you aware of the following:
We don NOT know what dosages and how often to use this nutrient to attain therapeutic levels.
We do NOT know all the drugs it may impact (exception: for sure it impacts the blood thinner, Warfarin - potentates it).
We do NOT know what Rxs- antibiotics, antidepressants, etc.it may alter...repeating for emphasis.
We know our bodies do NOT absorb a lot of this when it is taken orally.
We do know bioperine (found in black pepper) has a synergetic effect with curcumin. It enhances the bioavailability of curcumin.
We can purchase curcumin with bioperine OTC - over the counter - and
it is available in topical creams too.
Now, here is a list of facts about the chemical, curcumin (a few will be hard to understand, I'll try to keep those at a minimum, but leave some there for any medically savy individuals who may be lurking on this board):
1. Powerful antioxidant (most resources), but ONE says it is a pro-oxidant via modifying TrxR...or...it is both an antioxidant and pro-oxidant depending on the presence of copper (PMID: 10418962)...ahhh...the joys of research! 2. Has antibiotic properties 3. Anti-inflammatory 4. Painkiller 5. Antispasmotic 6. Anti-viral 7. Anti-fungal 8. Immune modulating 9. Protects the liver against a number of toxins 10. May be a very potent anticarcinogen 11. Lowers cholesterol 12. Appears to help prevent colon cancer in a dose dependent manner 13. Increases glutathione levels 14. Anti-ulcer by protecting the stomach lining 15. Anti-atherogenic effect of alpha-tocopherol (in vitamin E supplements) is potentiated 16. Gives tumeric its bright yellow-orange color 17. Inhibits constitutive and IL =7 STAT 3 Phosphorylation in multiple myeloma cells (multiple myeloma is bone cancer). Curcumin plays a roll in the suppression of MM proliferation. 18. Inhibits the cox - II enzyme 19. In vitro, inhibits the production of TNF -alpha, interleukin -1 beta, and Interleukin-8 among others. Il-1 beta decreases inward sodium current and outward potassium currents. Since Bb motility is dependent on NaCl it is logical that Il-1 beta goes up as a defensive move. Keep in mind, normally K is supposed to be in the cells and Na OUT. Bb moves away from KCL...as it also moves away from ethanol. Bb, it appears would rather have NaCL in the cells. K, potassium, currents are dependent on calcium. TNF-alpha, interferon gamma and to a lesser extent, interleukin 1 -beta can cause damage to epithelial cells which maybe a factor in epithelial shedding in airway diseases. Cortisol apparently causes K, potassium, to go into the cells as does insulin. However, insulin ``shock'' treatments done years ago by a doctor in Atlanta (who shall remain nameless), didn't work to cure lyme. 20. May suppress IL-12 production in macrophages which suggests a possible therapeutic use in Th1-midiated immune diseases. Macrophages are the principle immune cells in the brain. When macrophages are activated by beta amyloid oxidation they release toxic molecules called cytokines which are known to cause harm. Significant high levels of interleukin -6 are detected in people with Alzheimer's. (See #24) 21. Suppresses Interleukin 1 beta mediated prostaglandin E synthase 1 by altering early growth response gene EGR-1 and other signaling pathways 22. Helps heal wounds 23. Ameliorates MS, RA, psoriasis and inflammatory bowel disease in humans or animal models 24. Inhibits autoimmune diseases by regulating inflammatory cytokines such as Il -1 beta, IL-6, IL-12, TNF - alpha, and IFN - gamma and associated JAK-STAT, AP-1, and NF-kappa B signaling pathways in immune cells 25. Inhibits reactive oxygen generating enzymes such as lipoxygenase/cyclooxygenase, xanthine dehydrogenase/oxidase and inducible nitric oxide synthase - iNOS. The enzyme cyclooxygenase and its products called prostaglandins may increase glutamate which is an amino acid that excites nerves and, when overproduced, is a powerful nerve-cell killer. 26. Inducer of herme oxygenase -1 27. Inhibits PKC, EGF - tyrosine kinase, and IkappaB kinase. Receptor tyrosine kinases on Langerhans like dendritic cells* induces signaling* as shown by tyrosine phosphorylation and dephosphorylation of distinct proteins. Furthermore this engagement renders the cells less capable of stimulating CD4+ T cells. Bb infects the Langerhans cells which envelop Bb and carry it off to the lymph nodes to present antigens (proteins) in Bb's outer wall in order to make mature antibodies to combat Bb. Bb has a PKC inhibitor! It looks to be a PKC delta inhibitor. 28. Inhibits the activation of NF-KB and the expressions of oncogenes including c-jun, c-fos,c-myc, CDKS, FAS and iNOS. Oncogenes are genes that regulate cell growth. If they are mutated or overexpressed, they can promote the growth of cancer. 29. May suppress tumor promotion. The oxidant tumor promoter TPA ACTIVATES PKC by reacting with zinc thiolates present within the regulatory domain, whereas the oxidized form of cancer chemopreventative agents like curcumin can INactivate PKC by oxidizing the vicinal thiols present within the catalytic domain. 30. Induces apoptosis, cell death, thru the impairment of the ubiquitin-proteasone pathway. 31. May decrease the possibility of ARDS secondary to cytokine storm. Acute respiratory distress syndrome. 32. Taken on an empty stomach may cause gastric distress. Take with food - absorption appears to be better with food. 33. May stimulate bile production. For that reason, contraindicated in those with bile duct obstructions and those with gallstones. 34. Not for pregnant women and nursing mothers. 35. Caution should be exercised in those with GERD - gastroesophogeal reflux disease and in those with a history of peptic ulcers. 36. May have antithrombotic activity. Caution in use if on warfarin or anti-platelet drugs. 37. Adverse reactions are mainly gastrointestinal and include epigastric distress and nausea. One report of transient giddiness. 38. Abnormal liver tests have been reported in rats, but NOT in humans. 39. Transient hypotension has been reported in dogs, but again, NOT in humans. 40. In animal studies, curcumin was found to enhance the antitumor effect of cisplatin against fibrosarcoma. 41. In animal studies, curcumin was found to decrease the nephrotoxity due to doxorubicin and to decrease chromosomal aberrations due to bleomycin. 42. May reduce efficacy of reserepine, intomethacin. 43. Inhibits camptothecin-induced and mechlorethamine-induced apoptosis of breast cancer cell lines in vitro. Inhibits cyclophosphamide-induced tumor regression in animal studies. In other words, it looks to prevent cancer DRUGS from working. In other words...it appears one PKC inhibitor can downregulate another. Keep that in mind! 44. Interferes with the replication of viruses, including viral hepatitis and HIV. 45. Increased the CD4 count and inhibited the activity of enzymes that carry the virus into healthy cells. 46. Using intestional epithelial cells, inhibitd IL-1 B- mediated ICAM-1, and IL-8 gene expression in IEC-6, HT-29, and Caco-2 cells. It blocked NFkB DNA binding activity, RelA nuclear translocation IkBa degradation, IkB serine 32 phosphorylation, an IkB kinase - IKK - activity. Wound induced p38 phosphorylation was not inhibited. Blocks a signal upstream of NFkB inducing kinase and IKK. NFkB and TNF alpha stimulate androgen receptors...too much ongoing isn't good. This is where prostate cancer links come into play (constant stimulation of the androgen receptors). Vitamin D downregulates TNF alpha AND downregulates the Th1 pathway. The body is in a defensive mode if vitamin D levels climb, IMO. 47. In animal models, suppresses the development of abdominal aortic aneurysms along with structural preservation of medial elastin fibers. 48. Inhibits cell growth, induced the apoptosis - cell death - and enhanced the expression of maspin gene in LNCaP cells (prostate cancer cell lines). Maspin is a protein that protects us from cancer cells spreading. It is controlled by a tumor SUPPRESSOR gene. If that gene is turned ``off''...cancer spreads. 49. Downregulates homeobox gene NKX3.1 in prostate cancer cell line LNCaP for more specifics. 50. Inhibits Na,K=ATPase activity in a dose-dependent manner. Decreased the apparent affinity of Na, K-ATPase for K (+) and increased it for Na (+) and ATP. ATP triggers the EFFLUX of K(+) from the cells which is followed by Ca influx and activation of phospholipases. 51. Abrogated K (=) occulusion to the enyme above. Decreased the vanadate sensitivity of the enzyme. This indicates it should be taken with additional potassium. 52. Lowers fibrinogen 53. Attenuates diabetes 54. Synergetic with green tea..noted in more than one source - it's the EGCG in tea. Epigallocatechin-3-gallate. 55. Could slow Alzheimers (more info. will follow) 56. Could be synergistic with resveratrol 57. Prevents artherosclerosis 58. Prevents eye enlargement 59. Potentiates beneficial eddects of alcohol and attenuates the detriments (ethanol-caused hepatic injury) 60. Increases bone density 61. May induce HSP70 (heat shock protein) via initial depletion of intracellular Ca followed by the suppression of p53 gene function 62. May reduce bowel cancer because it inhibits the production of the inflammation-related enzyme cyclo-oxygenase 2 (COX-2) levels which are abnormally high in certain inflammatory diseases and cancers. 63. (Again) inhibits the production of IL-8, MIP-1 alpha, MCP-1, IL-1beta, and TNF-alpha by PMA or LPS stimulated monocytes and alveolar macrophages. IL-1 beta can be toxic to islet beta cells. These are the pancreatic cells that secrete insulin. A decrease in the functional B-cell mass is the hallmark of both type 1 and type 2 diabetes. The drug, diazoxide which opens potassium channels partially restores insulin secretion. Glucose, high levels, B cell production of IL-1beta contributes to glucotoxicity in human pancreatic cells. In addition, it appears IL-1beta DECREASES cholesterol. However, adequate cholesterol (amino acids) is vital in sepsis situations. 64. May help prevent oral cancers when used in combination with green tea. 65. Decreases total blood lipid peroxides as well as in HDL and LDL-lipid peroxidation. 66. Reduces amyloid in vivo. Inhibits the formation of ABETA oligomers and fibrils and binds plaques. Low levels of acetylcholine = high levels of beta-amyloid. Beta amyloid may disrupt the channels that carry sodium, potassium and calcium. When beta amloid breaks down, it releases oxygen free radicals. Oxygen free radicals bind to other molecules and this ultimately cause sever damage in cells and tissues and effects DNA. Acetylcholine opens K channels as does insulin, it appears. Dogs were chemically defibrillated using an acetylcholine-potassium chloride cocktail when they failed to respond to electrical defibrillation. Trivia. 67. Supresses oxidative damage, inflammation, cognitive deficits and amyloid accumulation. 68. Better Abeta-40 aggregation inhibitor than ibuprofen and naproxen 69. High dosing of oral curcumin appears safe..while other research says low concentrations are beneficial, high concentrations have a toxic effect. 70. May chelate iron 71. Inhibits lipid peroxidation better than vitamin E 72. In clinical trials, cancer patients have not shown adverse effects with doses from 2,000 to 8,000mg per day. 73. Rates of Alzheimer's and gastric cancer in India are much less than in their Western peers and this maybe attributed to curry in their diets. Women have a much higher risk of Alzheimer's which is likely due to estrogen, specifically a form of estrogen, estradiol levels which gets into IGF-1 and IGFPB-3...insulin like growth factor and insulin like growth factor binding protein. IGFBP-3...estradiol inhibits IGFBP-3. IGFBP-3 looks to bind to IGF-1 to carry insulin INTO the cells. Calcium is positively related to IGF-1 and magnesium levels are positively related to IGFBP-3. Soy foods can lower IGF-1. IGF-1 can also activate the glucose transporter, GLUT3 and promote glucose uptake into the cells. Muscle and fat cells interact with insulin and IGF-1 through the tryrosine kinase receptor. TNF alpha severely disturbs this glucose transport. TNF alpha causes the upregulation of integrine receptors which compete for IGF-1 binding with the tyrosine kinase receptors. When IGF-1 has bound to more integrine than tyrosine kinase receptors, the GLUT4 receptors retreat back into the cell cytoplasm, halting any glucose metabolism even in the presence of insulin.Got off track, didn't I? 74. Reduced the accumulation of beta-amyloid and the associated loss of proteins in the synapses, or gaps, between individual brain cells. The loss of the gaps correlates well with memory decline in Alzheimer's. 75. Note...rosmarinic acid, while it has a similar structure, has been found to INCREASE AB accumulation 76. Enhances enzyme that protects neurons against free radicals 77. Our brains have relatively weak antioxidant defenses. 78. Astrocytes treated with curcumin had an increased expression of hemeoxygenase-1 known as HO-1. This gene protects the neurons in our brains from damaging free radicals. 79. Increased expression of two detoxification enzymes, quinine reductase and glutathione S-transferase in astrocytes exposed to curcumin. Astrocytes are the largest and most numerous of the supporting, or glial, cells in the brain and spinal cord. Astrocytes (meaning "star cells" because of their shape) contribute to the blood-brain barrier, help regulate the chemical environment around cells, respond to injury, and release regulatory substances that influence nerve cells. 80. An ointment of curcumin was found to produce remarkable symptomatic relief in patients with external cancerous lesions. Smell, itching, pain, and reduction in lesion size was observed in those with skin cancer. 81. Dietary curcumin partially restored the suppressed hematocrit. 82. A daily dose of 1.6g of curcumin is required for efficacy in humans to prevent cancer has been suggested 83. Serum peak of curcumin happens at 1 to 2 hours after oral intake gradually declines within 12 hours. 84. Inhibits proliferation of a variety of B lymphoma cells. 85. 1.5g a day of TUMERIC (one teaspoon) helped to reduce mutagens in smokers. Mutagens are substances that cause genetic mutation and often cause cancer. 86. This is WEIRD...if one wanted to purchase curcumin from a supplier, it apparently comes in 3 forms: C21H20O6 - C20H18O5 - C19H16O4 . These are called curcumin 1, curcumin 2, and curcumin 3 respectively. Normally the molecular formula for curcumin is the first one. Note: curcumin 3, or, C19H16O4 is the identical formula for...get this...warfarin! Now...there is a HUGE difference between molecular formulas and molecular STRUCTURES. The way things are ``built'', even if built with identical elements, changes their functions. Still...strange. Now...here's something else...Chemists will hate me for doing this, but...mathematically if we take C21H20O6 (curcumin) - C19H16O4 (warfarin..there is ``H16'' marker for blood vessel damage) = C2H4O2 = acetic acid! ODD...very odd. Curcumin C3 complex has reference to its three main chemical compounds...curcumin, demethoxycurcumin and bisdemethoxycurcumin collectively known as curcuminoids. Bisdemethoxycurcumin is the ``H16'' one. Remember, molecular STRUCTURE matters. 87. May prevent hepatic fibrosis. 88. Findings support a role for curcumin as an adjunct to traditional chemotherapy and radiation in the treatment of brain cancer. 89. Inhibits or modulates beta-amyloid precursor protein metabolism (Alzheimer's implications) 90. Suppresses the initiation, promotion and metastasis of different tumors via induction of cell cycle arrest 91. Induces apoptosis in HEC-1-A cells (human endometrial adenocarcinoma) 92. Alleviate alveolitis and pulmonary fibrosis. 93. Nephroprotective (kidney) and hepatoprotective (liver) effects of curcuminoids 94. Plays a protective role in chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, acute lung injury, acute respiratory distress syndrome, and allergic asthma 95. Protective role against myocardial necrosis 96. Enhances the activities of glutathione-S-transferase in vivo 97. Reduces wound healing time, improves collagen deposition and increased fibroblast and vascular density in wounds thereby enhancing both normal and impaired wound healing. Potential for developing nontoxic compounds to treat skin diseases 98. Protects various systems against the deleterious effects of radiation while enhancing the effects of radiation (protects normal cells). 99. May help with chemoresistant cancer cell lines. Instead of adding more synthetic modulators, the use of natural dietary products which may work synergistically without increasing side effects is currently being studied. 100. Inhibits angiogenesis which is the development of blood vessels near tumors that are thought to ``feed'' tumors. 101. Tumeric is used in Indian medicine to cure biliary disorders, anorexia, cough, diabetic wounds, hepatic disorders, rheumatism and sinusitis. 102. Tumeric prevents LDL oxidation, suppresses thrombosis and myocardial infarction, suppress symptoms associated with type II diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis and Alzheimer's disease, inhibits HIV replication, enhances wound healing, protects from liver injury, increases bile secretion, protects from cataract formation and protects from pulmonary toxicity and fibrosis. 103. Called the Indian solid gold. Also considered an ideal ``Spice for Life''. 104. Exhibits activities similar to recently discovered tumor necrosis factor (TNF) blockers (e.gl, Humira, Remicade, and Enbrel), a vascular endothelial cell growth factor blocker (e.g., Avastin), humin epidermal growth factor receptor blockers (e.g., Erbitux, Erlotinib, and Geftinib), and a HER2 blocker (e.g., Herceptin). 105. Reverses breast tumor ixosomes mediated immune suppression of NK cell tumor cytotoxicity. 106. Inhibits tumor growth and angiogenesis in ovarian carcinoma. 107. Parathyroid hormone caused a significant increase in osteoclast-like cell formation (these cause bone destruction). This increase was inhibited in the presence of quercetin ...or curcumin. 108. By incorporating curcumin in rapamycin-loaded PLGA coating on stents significantly decreased platelet adhesion and activation, prolonged APTT clotting time and decreased the fibrinogen adsorption. 109. Used for maintenance therapy in ulcerative colitis. 110. In a mouse model, curcumin partially restored distorted neuritis in an Alzheimer mouse model. 111. Looks to reduce existing plaques. 112. A mononuclear 1:1 copper complex of curcumin has been found to be superior to curcumin in its anti-oxidant properties.Apparently radiation triggers PKC delta and NFkB activation which are not desirable. 113. Could prove an effective chemopreventative for bladder cancer recurrence. 114. Has protective effects against hepatic I/R injury associated with Hsp70 (heat shock protein) 115. Relaxing effect on coronary arteries. 116. May play a similar role as hydrocortisone in preventing BLNPF (bleomycin-induced pulmonary fibrosis) 117. Works best in combination with UVA or visible light to induce growth arrest and apoptosis in skin keratrinocytes (topical low doses of curcumin are suggested) 118. May be useful in treatment of IBD (irritable bowel disorder) 119. Prevents immune cell death in tumor-bearing hosts by restoring the cytokine dependent Jak-3/Stat-5a signaling pathway in T cells of tumor bearers. Stat - 5a is important in signaling T cell survival. Stat 3 is activated by growth factors (e.g., EGF, TGF-alpha, IL6, hepatocyte growth factor) and oncogenic kinases (e.g., c-myc and cyclin D1), suppress apoptosis (e.g., Bcl-x (L) and surviving) or promote angiogenesis, (e.g., VEGF0: STAT 3 activation has been linked to chemoresistance and radioresistance; and chemopreventative agents have been shown to suppress STAT 3 activation. 120. Suppresses NFkB activated by cigarette smoke 121. Pretreatment with curcumin attenuates LPS induced lung injury in animals. 122. Inhibited the development of TAA-induced liver cirrhosis. 123. Potentially an inhibitor of MMP-2 in hyman laryngeal squamous carcinoma cells Hep2. 124. Prevents hematogenous breast cancer metastasies in immunodeficient mice. 125. Has a neuroprotective effect on focal cerebral ischemic rats by preventing blood-brain barrier damage (in rats so far) 126. Ameliorates cerebral ischemia/reperfusion injury by preventing ONOO9_) mediated blood-brain barrier damage. 127. Potential value for controlling allergic responses 128. May lower blood glucose by inhibiting hepatic gluconeogenesis.. without affecting insulin receptor activation or insulin-stimulated glucose uptake 129. Is capable of playing a major role against heavy metal-induced neurotoxicity and has neuroprotective properties. 130. May raise serotonin, norepinephrine(noradrenaline) and dopamine in the brain based on animal studies.
``With regard to considerable public and scientific interest in the use of phytochemicals derived from dietary components to combat or prevent human diseases, curcumin is currently a leading agent.'' PMID:17569224.
Remember...
``Although the beneficial effects of nutraceuticals are traditionally achieved through dietary consumption at low levels for long periods of time, the use of purified active compounds such as curcumin at higher doses for therapeutic purposes needs extreme caution. A precise understanding of effective dose, safe regiment, and mechanism of action is required for the use of curcumin in the treatment of human autoimmune diseases.'' PMID: 17569223
Ancora Imparo!
[ 11. July 2007, 08:50 AM: Message edited by: Marnie ]
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
You can put "eliminates depression symptoms" on the list also. You will not find much on this but it worked for me. Discovered it by accident when treating my Crohn's disease. Use 95% standarized between 1800 and 2000 Mg per day.
In about 20 years this will be officially recognized.
D Bergy
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Might not take 20 years:
Eur J Pharmacol. 2005 Jul 25;518(1):40-6.
Department of Pharmacology, School of Basic Medical Science, Peking University, 38 Xueyuan Road, Beijing, 100083, PR China.
Curcuma longa is a major constituent of Xiaoyao-san, the traditional Chinese medicinal formula, which has been used effectively to treat depression-related diseases in China.
There is no information available about the antidepressant activity of curcumin, the active component of curcuma longa.
In the present study, we analyzed the effects of curcumin on depressive-like behaviors in mice, using two animal models of depression.
Our results showed that curcumin treatment at 5 and 10 mg/kg (p.o.) significantly reduced the duration of immobility in both the tail suspension and forced swimming tests.
These doses that affected the immobile response did not affect locomotor activity. In addition,
the neurochemical assays showed that curcumin produced a marked increase of serotonin and noradrenaline levels at 10 mg/kg in both the frontal cortex and hippocampus.
Dopamine levels were also increased in the frontal cortex and the striatum.
Moreover, curcumin was found to inhibit monoamine oxidase activity in the mouse brain.
These findings suggest that the antidepressant-like effects of curcumin may involve the central monoaminergic neurotransmitter systems. PMID: 15987635
Thanks for the puzzle piece! I've added this to my original post!
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
wow! this is amazing information... sounds like a miracle drug.
Does anyone know where you buy this? or the best manufacturer?
Posts: 151 | From ohio | Registered: May 2007
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CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
Yes, I've heard of this- good post, Marnie!!
I lived in India when I was little and have visited a few times and a cook of ours once claimed the reason for her health and that of so many of Indias poor was... yup, the secret is in the curry, she said, the spices(*)!*)!
And I always have believed her!!! She was great!!!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Life Extension Super Curcumin with Bioperine 900mg 60 capsules...about $16
1-888-771-3905
Topical curcumin in 4 oz size $34.60
1-800-882-8045
Other companies are in the process of developing more topical curcumin creams...one in NC. I think it is called Curry Pharmaceuticals.
I am in NO WAY affiliated with these companies nor do I in ANY WAY profit for the information I research and share with you here.
We know "bioavailability" of this is not so great...the following maybe WHY:
"In order for curcumin to be maximally effective against cancer, it MUST be introduced into the body in a bioavailable form.
Curcumin is almost totally insoluble in water. On the other hand, it is completely soluble in fat.
Curcumin dissolves readily in coconut milk or cream, especially if they are warm.
There is NO reason to boil coconut milk or cream in order to dissolve curcumin. Never boil anything unless you are absolutely certain the heat will not damage the medicinal properties of the natural medicine. I have no idea how heat stable curcumin is for medicinal purposes. So don't boil it.
Curcumin that is dissolved in fat will be introduced into the lymphatic system with the fat. There is exactly where we want curcumin to be introduced into the body. The lymphatic fluid bathes all the tissues in the body. We are NOT interested in directly introducing it into the blood.
People complain about the taste of curcumin. So add other spices, such as turmeric, or other spices to the mix to change the taste.
How much curcumin do we need to treat cancer and leukemia? No one knows.... "
Mepron with fat, right?
Now...if you are about to tell me coconut oil and coconut fat are bad for us and we should not consume this "fat", I will remind you of the soaps, hair conditioners, suntan lotions etc. in which coconut oil is added for reasons besides the great smell. We DO absorb things thru our largest organ...our skin.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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5dana8
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7935
posted
Excellent posts Marnie
Thanks for posting the above research
here's a link ~ Curcumin maybe effective cure for Alzheimers:
*Marnie: One quick question on your last post. If you take curcumin caps are you saying they are less effective if you swallow them? Should the caps be opened up & disolved in coconut milk or almond butter?
-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
In the energetic testing work I have done, curcumin often tests very well. I think it does have some promisning qualities. Thanks for posting these details.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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-------------------- 5dana8 Posts: 4432 | From some where over the rainbow | Registered: Sep 2005
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
New Chapter has some good products. Gaia herbs is another one I have tested with.
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
Curcumin is almost totally insoluble in water. On the other hand, it is completely soluble in fat.
I got plenty of that hhhaaa
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
Here is my original post on a Crohn's forum on how I figured out why I lost my long term depression suddenly. It also has the studies I found at the time
As I mentioned in another thread, I have had depression problems since my teens.
For some reason that I could not explain my depression went away when I started having problems related to Crohn's disease. This seemed so illogical since when you are sick as a dog and wondering if you are going to live. (undiagnosed at that point). It would seem that this would bring the depression on in spades.
That never happened, and for about three years now I have not had any more episodes of this. Maybe three months before my Crohn's but never longer. I had a theory that maybe I killed a bacteria or virus that caused it with my frequency treatments.
Well now I have a more solid explanation that is backed by some Chinese research.
It seems that Turmeric can help depression problems according to some Chinese studies. I have scoured the internet about all the benefits of Turmeric but have somehow missed these ones. I found them on another health forum by accident.
When I started getting my symptoms I also upped my dose of Ginger and Curcummin (extract of Turmeric) in the hopes of easing my symptoms and killing bad bacteria that I thought may be causing my symptoms. No diagnosis at this point so it was my best guess at what to do. This coincides with the loss of my depression problems. A couple of months ago I switched to Turmeric in its natural form because it was supposedly a better form for killing bacteria. It does not seem to matter since I have used both.( I have since found out that regular Turmeric is not strong enough to keep symptoms away. Use 95% standardized extract. ).
I do not know how reliable Chinese studies are but they certainly know the effects of herbs better than the western world. Since I know of at least two people on this forum who also suffer from depression I thought this would be of interest.
If you try it be sure to start out on a smaller dose to begin with since Crohn's may not play well with it. Since I use Ginger with it, this may help me tolerate it better. If it works, it is one heck of a lot better than the alternatives.
D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
The 95% standardized is available from many sources. I am not at home so I can't check where I bought the last batch from. GNC or most any other suppliment place will have it.
It should state 95% curcuminoids and that is for a 450 or 500 Mg capsule. The curcuminoids are the active ingredients in Turmeric. Be careful because some capsules have like 50Mg of 95% cucuminoids and 450Mg of plain old Turmeric. This is not the same but is cheaper.
I have used the tincture also, it works fine but I do not like the taste. Capsules work just fine. I use equal amounts of Ginger also for absorbtion. Ginger has a long list of beneficial qualities in its own right.
Marnie probably has a laundry list for Ginger also.
They are the only two herbs I always take since the benefits are so pronounced for both.
D Bergy
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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MariaA
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posted
Buhner cured himself herbally from Hepatitis C (which is often fatal) and one of the herbs he used was curcumin (turmeric from the spice section of the health food store).
I think that for liver disease treatment he says to cook it a bit with liquid to make a thick paste, then swallow marble-sized balls of it. Sounds like more of a higher-dose than you get with a couple of capsules. If I were sicker when I read that advice, I would have tried it this way for Lyme inflammation, too.
I just buy it at the health food store in bulk (as one of the spices in the bulk section) and I also buy fresh root (ah, the joys of living in California) and grate it into my food- it tastes totally different fresh (fresh root tastes like a mild dillweed flavor, dried powder doesn't taste very good and is usually sparingly used for coloring in curries, egg dishes, etc).
Turmeric is one of the explanations commonly given for why there's little Alzheimers' in India, so the spice version must be potent if taken long-term.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
By the way I read somewhere that you can turn temporarily yellowish if you eat a HUGE amount of it, though I haven't seen that substantiated anywhere and I certainly haven't experienced that.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
I took turmeric with my first babesia infection, but I didn't feel many improvements with it.
I now decided to retest it again, as I got reinfected with babesia, it tests a bit good, but nothing compared to other herbs I tested, so I didn't take it this time.
I guess I had trouble in digesting higher amounts of it. I took it together with artemisinin last year (or a year before still).
Thanks for posting anyway! Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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Seems like I am always posting plugs for nutramedix... Sorry, it happens to be what I tried first and when I was making an order I would try to add enough products so I could get their "case discount."
So, I picked up their product "Avea (mood)" and sent it to my sister to see if it could help her because her regular meds ran out and she didn't have any money to see the doctor. She is still using it over half a year later and feels like it is really helping. I think it lasts her a couple months at the dose she uses.
So what is it? Tumeric.
-------------------- When I lost my grip on Faith in the maze of illness, Hope gently clasped my hand and led on.
RuthRuth Posts: 478 | From California | Registered: Jan 2007
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MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
Hey- look. Crosses the blood-brain barrier: (article from 2004 about an Alzheimers's study, I wonder what came of the human trials they mention there?)
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Curcuminoids (from point #86):
...if one wanted to purchase curcumin from a supplier, it apparently comes in 3 forms: C21H20O6 - C20H18O5 - C19H16O4 . These are called curcumin 1, curcumin 2, and curcumin 3 respectively.
Curcumin C3 complex has reference to its three main chemical compounds - curcumin, demethoxycurcumin and bisdemethoxycurcumin collectively known as curcuminoids .
It is the molecular formula of the last form that is identical to the molecular formula of warfarin...in formula only...not necessarily in structure!!! It is how different molecules are ARRANGED that determines how the body uses them. Think 3 dimensionally.
As I understand, primarily sugars and complex carbs are broken down first...higher in our GI tract (to supply glucose faster...our #1 fuel).In other words, these are broken down by enzymes in our mouths (saliva contains enzymes) and stomachs.
Fats and proteins that we eat are broken down and absorbed further down our GI tract (primarily small intestine) and water and electrolytes are primarily reabsorbed in our lower intestine.
So the question about powder versus capsules....gelatin (protein) capsules protect the powders or liquids in them from destruction by our very (!) strong stomach acids in order that they can REACH the place to be absorbed i.e., small intestine.
In other words, I think it likely would be okay to take a curcumin capsule along with a coconut oil capsule (Source Naturals makes them if you don't like the taste of coconut oil)at the same time.
Re: yellow staining. It is not harmful and goes away from what I have read.
I made up my own concoction yesterday. I purchased a jar of coconut oil and opened one curcumin capsule and mixed it into the warm oil. Then I put it in the refrigerator to harden. Normally coconut oil looks sorta like crisco and when melted is a clear liquid. It melts easily and quickly in heat. This new formula that I made is very orange.
Why? My husband has a little Psoriasis on his ankle. I'm going to see if it will help. It is supposed to.
I'm also going to "experiment" on myself. I'm going to apply a small amt. to 2 "age spots" and then expose them to sunlight...UV rays. Apparently the combination is SUPPOSED to help.
Sunlight is a "negative charge"...so are amino acids...proteins and fats and vitamins...
Apparently it is the combination of curcumin PLUS a specific "negative charge" that determines its effectiveness.
Maria...it is my understanding that fresh spices generally are weaker than the powdered. We can use less dried parsley than fresh in recipes, for example. I wonder about the strength of fresh from the grated root versus powdered curcumin or tumeric.
???
Remember, it looks to be very important for it to work, it may need to be taken WITH a fat so it is absorbed and transported to where it is supposed to go.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Interesting point about the fats+curcumin, Marnie.
I can think of another example. When I cook with cayenne pepper in a dish that has coconut oil or red palm oil, for example, it seems to have more "impact" in terms of helping me to fight a cold or whatever ails me.
Annxyz, now thinking about Marnie's added comment, I would like to theorize that the Avea (tumeric extract in alchohol) may be absorbed by the muscus membranes before the stomach.
This would be consistant with my experience with other products. I get much more benefit from extracts and sublinguals. Probably because these delivery methods don't depend upon my digestion working correctly.
-------------------- When I lost my grip on Faith in the maze of illness, Hope gently clasped my hand and led on.
RuthRuth Posts: 478 | From California | Registered: Jan 2007
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SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
and....the fats logic is also why some practitioners use phospholipids taken with other medications to help increase their uptake...
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
How come you cannot mention your website on this forum anymore. Who came after you?
Posts: 116 | From Plano, Texas, USA | Registered: May 2004
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Sue, that's what I would like to know also.
Just thinking of the contribution that Scott is making to this "club", whether the Nellies are interested or not, a lot of people, including myself, benefit from his site - and often I can find things quicker than in my own "file cabinet" called documents.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Marnie...
I did it. GOOD info!!! Must have taken a LONG time to research. THANK YOU!!!
```````````````````````````````````````````
Maria...
You said.. "By the way I read somewhere that you can turn temporarily yellowish if you eat a HUGE amount of it.."
You know.. sometimes we need a little change to make us smile... as things can get rather boring.
And since it is summertime... and I do like yellow... I THINK I will try to see if I can make myself that way.
If I start now.. by Halloween I can go tric-or-treating... as a yellow submarine!
posted
I'm also wondering why Scott isn't allowed to mention his betterhealthguy site -- it's got helpful info.
Marnie -- Thx for the info! As a sidenote, you mentioned your husband possibly trying the curcumin mixture for psoriasis. I stopped my psoriasis by drinking oxygenated water for a week -- ie, oxygen treatment ended psoriasis. Let me know if you think I should repost this information under its own heading in Medical Questions...
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
OOOPS. Turmeric IS starting testing good NOW for me. It doesn't test EXCELLENT, but it tests good.
But it is a TRICKY powder to take. When I test it, I can never take it together WITH ANYTHING ELSE. Nothing tests good together with it (except water).
It says about AN HOUR AWAY from any other supplements (except some homeopathics). Including food.
My dose is testing for 1-2 teaspoons a day, half on early AM half on late PM. Always by itself, a bit like artemisinin tests (always away from other supplements AND food, for about minimum 50 minutes!).
[this is ALL just muscle tested for myself though]. [ignore my message if you don't believe it].
Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Here is some additional information:
The only well known problem with curcumin , besides its low absorption into the bloodstream, is that you can't repeatedly take it without food or you will tend to get an upset stomach.
***Taking it with some fatty food, or ideally with your daily fish oil supplements at the same time, will maximize absorption.***
were fed a high-fat diet containing turmeric oleoresin, curcuminoids, AND essential oil for 5 weeks.
The same diet without any of these fractions was used as a control diet.
Ingestion of turmeric oleoresin AND essential oil
inhibited the development of increased blood glucose and abdominal fat mass,
while curcuminoids only inhibited the increase in blood glucose.
DNA microarray analysis indicated that turmeric oleoresin ingestion up-regulated the expression of genes related to glycolysis, beta-oxidation, and cholesterol metabolism in the liver of KK-Ay mice,
while expression of gluconeogenesis-related genes was down-regulated.
Real-time PCR analysis was conducted to assess the contribution of the curcuminoids and essential oil in turmeric oleoresin to the changes in expression of representative genes selected by DNA microarray analysis.
This analysis suggested that curcuminoids regulated turmeric oleoresin ingestion-induced expression of glycolysis-related genes and also that
curcuminoids AND turmeric essential oil acted synergistically
to regulate the peroxisomal beta-oxidation-related gene expression induced by turmeric oleoresin ingestion.
These changes in gene expression were considered to be the mechanism by which the turmeric oleoresin affected the control of both blood glucose levels AND abdominal adipose tissue masses.
All of these results suggest that the use of whole turmeric oleoresin is more effective than the use of either curcuminoids or the essential oil
alone.
PMID: 17117790
Synergy.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
MARNIE: This is great information. Worth a trial for 3 months. I went to my health food store and bough organic tumeric at 95%...and some coconut milk. It's Wild Harvest Brand, and says it is 453 mg each. So @ 2 g per day? it costt 15.55.
I wish you would change this Topic Name to: Curcumin -- easier to find.
-------------------- Jeff Posts: 533 | From CA | Registered: Mar 2006
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butchieboo
Unregistered
posted
Is it possible that there is some of this curcumin in an anti-parasitic called "ALINIA"?
Or is it in MEPRON?
Just curious because of the tendancy to turn one yellow.
hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
Thanks for the info Marnie. I got tummy problems first time I took turmeric, now I remember!
What I said it doesn't test good with other things I meant other herbs/ supplements, at least not with what I take now.
There are easy herbs like Japanese Knotweed, even cats claw, that mostly test good with anything, but turmeric falls on the category 'difficult' one in my tests, like artemisinin. For some reason, minerals, vitamins, and other herbs don't 'match'.
I didn't test food/ fats & turmeric. I will do that to see what my muscle tests say! Thanks!
Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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clairenotes
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10392
posted
More great research!!
I have been taking New Chapter's 'Zyflammend' which has some turmeric and curcumin in it with good results. For some reason, I feel like I absorb water better. Not sure why this is but there are several other ingredients that may factor in.
We started giving turmeric (Solaray) to my daughter also, but still too early to tell how it is working for her. It was suggested for possible inflammation, but we decided to give it to her daily as it tested well for her.
I would like to try the Life Extension Brand. It may be more potent.
I have always been drawn to the warmer Indian spices and cooking. Good idea to use it with coconut milk.
Claire
Posts: 1111 | From Colorado | Registered: Oct 2006
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
Claire...what is so weird is that BOTH curcumin (in tumeric - which is in curry) AND Forskolin appear to INhibit NFkB.
But they work opposite!
The former reduces cAMP and the latter increases cAMP.
I don't get that!
cAMP is a second messenger, used for intracellular signal transduction, such as
transferring the effects of hormones like
glucagon and adrenaline, which
*cannot get through the cell membrane.*
Its main purpose is the activation of protein kinases; it is also used to regulate the passage of Ca2+ through ion channels.
Low cAMP and the cell is deprived of glucagon and will die.
High cAMP and our helper (effector) T cells are given a boost...and now we have antibody protection.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
Yes, Buhner stated in his book "Healing Lyme", that it works better here in the midwest, Wis/Minn. than the east coast. And that it works for some people and not others.
I have not tried it, but maybe should for my chronic arthritis. The stomach problems does concern me though. I sure don't want any more of those.
quote:Originally posted by MariaA: Buhner cured himself herbally from Hepatitis C (which is often fatal) and one of the herbs he used was curcumin (turmeric from the spice section of the health food store).
I think that for liver disease treatment he says to cook it a bit with liquid to make a thick paste, then swallow marble-sized balls of it. Sounds like more of a higher-dose than you get with a couple of capsules. If I were sicker when I read that advice, I would have tried it this way for Lyme inflammation, too.
I just buy it at the health food store in bulk (as one of the spices in the bulk section) and I also buy fresh root (ah, the joys of living in California) and grate it into my food- it tastes totally different fresh (fresh root tastes like a mild dillweed flavor, dried powder doesn't taste very good and is usually sparingly used for coloring in curries, egg dishes, etc).
Turmeric is one of the explanations commonly given for why there's little Alzheimers' in India, so the spice version must be potent if taken long-term.
Maria: Buhner is NOT "cured" of Hepatitis C! He states this in his latest CD. He has basically healed himself with the proper regimen and continuing maintenance protocol, but NOT "cured".
You don't get CURED from Chronic Lyme either. You co-exist with it, once you get it under control and the proper maintenance schedule.
Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
I wonder what would have happened if Buhner said - verbally or in print - that herbs CURED his hep. C?
Food for thought.
Did he SAY his viral load has been tested and the virus is still present?
"Quest Diagnostics Incorporated Quest Diagnostics Announces Availability of HEPTIMAX Ultra-Sensitive Quantitative Hepatitis C Virus "Test
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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MariaA
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posted
quote:Originally posted by JimBoB: Yes, Buhner stated in his book "Healing Lyme", that it works better here in the midwest, Wis/Minn. than the east coast. And that it works for some people and not others.
I have not tried it, but maybe should for my chronic arthritis. The stomach problems does concern me though. I sure don't want any more of those.
Jim
I think he said that about teasel, not turmeric.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
clairenotes
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10392
posted
I don't have all of the information regarding cAMP -- only the earlier stuff on bioflavonoids. Did you determine that forskolin was not good? Will go back and research later.
Anyway, getting the proper `materials' into the tissues is so important. Amazing how Bb messes with our protein kinases, which prevent some of that (?) and prevents our immune system's ability to go after Bb. This IS good research.
Strange that sometimes I take zyflammend with grapefruit juice for an added punch, though the warm herbs and the citrus seem so opposite eachother. It is unusual for me to crave opposite flavors or foods with opposite properties (hot/cold).
I also wonder why curcumin is synergistic with resveratrol?
Claire
[ 18. July 2007, 12:53 AM: Message edited by: clairenotes ]
Posts: 1111 | From Colorado | Registered: Oct 2006
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Ok, I posted it, now what does it say? Posts: 468 | From IL | Registered: Oct 2003
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by MariaA:
quote:Originally posted by JimBoB: Yes, Buhner stated in his book "Healing Lyme", that it works better here in the midwest, Wis/Minn. than the east coast. And that it works for some people and not others.
I have not tried it, but maybe should for my chronic arthritis. The stomach problems does concern me though. I sure don't want any more of those.
Jim
I think he said that about teasel, not turmeric.
You are absolutely right, Maria, I was reading about both as they were just a page apart in the healing lyme book, and messed up on my answer. Thanks for the correction.
posted
D Bergy(or others with experience with curcumin for depression):
Have been taking 1800 mg standardized at 95% for about 2 weeks for very very very severe depression. How long should it take to see some relief?
Is a larger dose a bad idea?
Thanks very much and good luck to all, Dave
Posts: 175 | From Colorado | Registered: Feb 2007
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D Bergy
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Member # 9984
posted
I would say it should be working already. Turmeric is difficult for the body to absorb that is why I used an equal amount of Ginger with it. There are probably better ways to get absorbtion but I was taking the Ginger anyway. Fish oil may be a better way to get absorbtion plus it is an anti-inflamatory like Ginger.
I would not take any more than you are now, unless you have some professional advice.
Keep us posted on whether it helps you or not. I hope you start feeling better.
D Bergy
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