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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » B12

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Author Topic: B12
Marnie
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Vitamin B12 = Cyanocobalamin.

In lyme it appears MANY of the B vitamins are deficient. Since they all work together, obviously it would be best to take a B complex.

However, higher doses of the following B vitamin might be absolutely critical.

This vitamin is depleted by MANY DRUGS..I was amazed !

It also declines as we age.

We do store a lot in our liver, however, but is it being made available? (There is also a LOT of Mg in our liver too...attached to ATP....and yet it does not appear the body is utilizing those stores.) It appears, at least initially, that Mg (to fight) comes from muscle stores.

In another post, I will try to explain the connection of this vitamin (B12) to the infamous Western Fence Lizard.

Many insects are high in B12. The lizard feeds on insects all night, but THIS lizard has a ``blue belly''...which just maybe cobalt. Watch for my blue belly post.

Here is some general information on B12:

"a deficiency of B12 may reduce progesterone and estrogen levels while increasing cortisol levels and homocysteine"

(Sliding in a note here...B6 assists in the conversion of estradiol into estriol, the least harmful form of estrogen.)

"B12 inhibits fibrinogenolysis at neutral pH "

"Vitamin B12 also displays some antioxidant properties. "

"Thus, the concentration of heme and the presence of vitamin B12 significantly influenced the course of glucose fermentation by these bacteria." (These = a particular bacteria, not nec. Bb, but curious.)

"B12 acts directly on the pineal gland to provoke a faster release of melatonin."

In previous experiments (Schaefer and co-workers, '49a) it was shown that vitamin B12 decreases the dietary choline or methionine required for protection against the hemorrhagic kidney syndrome in rats.

"Supplementation with vitamin B12 decreases homocysteine and methylmalonic acid but also serum folate in patients ."

" If the immune cells made in the bone marrow are to mature into active disease-fighters, a sufficient quantity of vitamin B12 and folic acid are necessary. "

B12 "Has been used experimentally to suppress the AIDS virus and to support health in AIDS patients, who are commonly deficient."

"Deficiencies of vitamin B12 and folic acid can also cause diminished neutrophil production."

"Cobalt appears to have properties or characteristics unique to itself as a trace element , regardless of its indispensable role in vitamin B12 production.

Cobalt contributes to resistance against parasites and infection, in concert with other trace elements such as copper, zinc and iron."

``Vitamin B12 is essential for the production of red blood cells. It plays a role in the metabolization of proteins and fats and the synthesis of myelin, a fatty substance that encases nerve fibers.''

``B12 is the most chemically complex of all the vitamins. B12's structure is based on a corrin ring, which, although similar to the porphyrin ring found in heme, chlorophyll, and cytochrome, has two of the pyrrole rings directly bonded.

The central metal ion is Co (cobalt).

Four of the six coordinations are provided by the corrin ring nitrogens, and a fifth by a dimethylbenzimidazole group. The sixth coordination partner varies, being a cyano group (-CN), a hydroxyl group (-OH), a methyl group (-CH3) or a 5'-deoxyadenosyl group (here the C5' atom of the deoxyribose forms the covalent bond with Co), respectively, to yield the four B12 forms mentioned above.

The covalent C-Co bond is the only carbon-metal bond known in biology.''

``In several clinical trials, supplementation with cobalamin (vitamin B12) has been demonstrated to improve the overall asthma condition by reducing its severity and frequency.

This is especially true with pediatric asthma, which is often a result of sulfite-sensitivity. Jonathan V. Wright, MD of Kent, Washington, believes "B12 therapy is the mainstay in childhood asthma".

Vitamin B12 has been shown to induce the production of a sulfite-cobalamin complex, which blocks the allergic effects of sulfites. It has also been proposed that the oxidative action of vitamin B12 is able to block the sulfite-induced bronchospasm associated with chronic allergy related asthma.''

"Cyanocobalamin, also known as Cobalamin or vitamin B12, is a chemical compound that is needed for nerve cells and red blood cells, and to make DNA.

It is a water-soluble organometallic compound with a trivalent cobalt ion bound inside a corrin ring."

So, trivalent cobalt in B12...

Trivalent, delta. Curious!VERY.

The lyme pathogen, borrelia Bb maybe able to use cobalt 1 and cobalt 2, but can it not use trivalent cobalt 3 as in Cyanocobalamin?

Sublingual (under your tongue) cycnocobalmin is available. I purchased some at my GNC. Read the boxes/bottles carefully... cycnocobalmin - NOT methylcobalamin !

B12 is also available at a PATCH to wear for absorption:
http://www.b12patch.com/about-b12patch.html

Now..about toxicity...over 90% of websites say B12 can be taken in high doses without problems. Excess is simply eliminated via the kidneys. Of course... discuss this with your doctor first .

Don't forget folic acid must be taken too because B12 decreases it.

Ancora Imparo.

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Squeegee
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Hi, Marnie --

Interesting post. My LLMD has me on vitamin B12 shots but insisted on methylcobalamin. He said they were more effective. I had to order them from a compounding pharmacy in Ohio.

Do you know how long it takes to feel an increase in energy level? I have had 5 shots so far and haven't noticed any difference yet.

Thanks,
Betty B

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Aniek
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I've been taking B-12 with folic acid for over a year now. I take sublingual. There is an almost immediate difference in taking it before or during exercise.

While on vacation a couple weeks ago, I forgot to take it all day for one day. I was absolutely exhausted much earlier in the evening than usual.

I just started adding it through an IV as well.

--------------------
"When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison

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klutzo
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Hi Marnie,
I make a point out of reading things by people I disagree with.....it stretches my mind. I recently read a book by a doctor who is strongly anti-supplement. Of course, now I can't remember his name or the name of the book, due to Lyme brain! It was a fairly new book,and the title had something to do with a billion dollar scam (referring to the supplement industry).

However, I do remember that though he is anti-supplement in almost all cases, even he now believes there is a strong case to be made for taking these 3 supplements:
1. Vitamin D3
2. Fish Oil
3. Vitamin B12 (people over 60 and vegans)

I have had levels of several nutrients tested recently. My B12 was at the upper limit of normal, my folic acid was way above normal, and my Red blood cell Mg was also above normal range. My homocysteine was perfect and my CRP was less than one. The doctor warned me that a folic acid level as high as mine was dangerous for my kidneys, so I changed my multivitamin.

With results like that, I wonder how come I still feel like a truck ran over me! Could CFS research shed some light on this, ie. the finding that normal B12 blood levels can exist when almost no B12 is present in the brain? If so, how do we get the stuff into our brains?

Regards,

Klutzo

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Aniek
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Klutzo,

My doctor says it is not just the levels of B12, your body has to be able to fulfill the methylization (sp?) process.

I don't understand the science behind this. But I know that amino acid deficiencies prevent this, and I was extremely deficient in amino acids. He also has me taking glutathione, oral in the form of Lipoflow, and recently I started IV for a boost.

I think it is important to remember that a perfectly healthy person, with a good diet, probably doesn't need supplements. But when you are sick, and your body is no longer processing nutrients correctly, you need to give your body a boost to get it working again.

--------------------
"When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison

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Marnie
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Cyanide + trivalent cobalt...

Cyanocobalamin, also known as Cobalamin or vitamin B12, is a chemical compound that is needed for nerve cells and red blood cells, and to make DNA. It is a water-soluble organometallic compound with a trivalent cobalt ion bound inside a corrin ring.

As the name implies, cyanocobalamin contains a cyanide molecule.

Most people are familiar with cyanide as a poisonous substance. Although the amount of cyanide in a normal B12 supplement is small and from a toxicology point, viewed as insignificant, your body will still need to remove and eliminate this compound. This removal is accomplished through your detoxification systems with substances like glutathione being very important for the elimination of the cyanide.

http://www.dadamo.com/napharm/store3/template2/b12.htm

Bb depletes cysteine and glycine which are needed to make glutathione.

"experiments with cyanide, which is able to displace the superoxide anion"

--------

The L forms of amino acids have been shown to be absorbed by "active" transport,

whereas the D forms are not. For example, L-histidine is transported six times faster

than D-histidine, and L-lysine is transported faster than D-lysine

***Also, the accumulation of L-histidine but not of D-histidine by tissue segments is

inhibited by cyanide***

or by 2,4-dinitrophenol. These findings raised the possibility that iron could be "actively" absorbed as an iron-amino acid

complex.

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/103/1/139.pdf

Bb's "zinc fingers" contain histidine.

More importantly -or just as- trivalent cobalt...

***Trivalent cobalt ions oxidize bivalent chromium ions and thereby

form bivalent cobalt ions and

trivalent chromium ions .***

Trivalent chromium...

Trivalent chromium, a dietary supplement that potentiates the action of insulin, was not included in the program.

Like metformin and troglitazone, trivalent chromium decreases insulin resistance and has an acceptable side-effect profile; furthermore, it is available at a fraction of their cost.

Trivalent chromium should have been included in the Diabetes Prevention Program; it is unfortunate that it was omitted.

PMID: 9247907

Chromium 3 picolinate is a food supplement which is widely available in the UK.



Further treatment with CrPic for 10 weeks significantly ameliorated changes in metabolic risk factors including favorable changes in histopathology of the liver, kidney, and pancreas, suggesting its potential role in the management of diabetes.

chromium picolinate = CrPic

PMID: 17697867



Main outcome: Sevelamer hydrochloride and chromium picolinate each significantly decreased the area under the serum thyroxine concentration curve, while ezetimibe had no effect.

Conclusion: Hypothyroid patients taking sevelamer hydrochloride or chromium picolinate should be advised to separate the time of ingestion of these drugs from their thyroid hormone preparation by several hours.

PMID: 17725434

J Cardiometab Syndr. 2007 Spring;2

Combination of chromium and biotin improves coronary risk factors in hypercholesterolemic type 2 diabetes mellitus: a placebo-controlled, double-blind randomized clinical trial.
Albarracin C, Fuqua B, Geohas J, Juturu V, Finch MR, Komorowski JR.

Alpha Therapy Center, Corpus Christi, TX, USA.

Dyslipidemia, often found in type 2 diabetes mellitus =T2DM patients, plays an important role in the progression of cardiometabolic syndrome. Two essential nutrients, chromium and biotin, may maintain optimal glycemic control.

These data suggest that intervention with CPB -chromium picolinate and biotin combination - improves cardiometabolic risk factors.

PMID: 17684468



Free Radic Biol Med. 2007 Jun 15

High Cr 3 concentrations, 250 microM Cr as Cr chloride and Cr histidinate and 120 microM Cr picolinate -highest amount soluble in the system,

not only did not result in oxidative DNA damage

but exhibited protective antioxidant effects

when cells were exposed to hydrogen peroxide-induced oxidative stress. These data further support the low toxicity of trivalent Cr complexes used in nutrient supplements.

PMID: 17512455

Diabetes Metab Res Rev. 2007 May 16

CONCLUSIONS: These results suggest that the chromium picolinate/biotin combination, administered as an adjuvant to current prescription anti-diabetic medication, can improve glycaemic control in overweight to obese individuals with type 2 diabetes; especially those patients with poor glycaemic control on oral therapy.
PMID: 17506119

Food Chem Toxicol. 2007 Jul;45

Using the Comet assay DNA damage was also monitored in extended-term cultures of human lymphocytes and in L5178Y mouse lymphoma cells that had been exposed for 3h to 500 microM CrPic under different exposure conditions.

A slight, but significant CrPic-induced increase in DNA damage was observed in the human lymphocytes, but only when these cells were exposed in the absence of serum.

In all other experiments CrPic was found to be without genotoxic effects, both in vivo and in vitro. Taken together, our results suggest that a high concentration of CrPic might be DNA damaging, but only under non-physiological conditions.

PMID: 17418471

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kelmo
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This is what Dr. Burrascano has in his guidelines.

I realize they are just guidelines, but when we get a lot of confusing information, I have heard this form of B-12 is the best to take from several other sources.

Not contradicting you, I'm open to anything, just reporting what I have heard.

METHYLCOBALAMIN (Methyl B12)
quote:
Methylcobalamin is a prescription drug derived from vitamin B12. This can help to heal problems with the
central and peripheral nervous system, improve depressed immune function, and help to restore more normal
sleeping patterns. Many patients note improved energy as well. Because the oral form is not absorbed when
swallowed or dissolved under the tongue, Methyl B12 must be taken by injection. Dose is generally 25 mg. (1
c.c.) daily for 3 to 6 months. Long term studies have never demonstrated any side effects from this drug.
However, the urine is expected to turn red shortly after each dose- if the urine is not red, a higher dose may
be needed or the present supply may have lost potency. The injectable form of this is not

I happened to by this in the sublingual form for my daughter last week. I hope she gets SOMETHING out of it.

Kelly

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lymebytes
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I used Cyanocobalamin b12 bought at regular pharmacies until I learned more about B12. It is a very, very low dose (1000mcg per ml) of b12 and hardly worth the shot in my opinion. I also didn't like the fact that some sort of aluminum is listed on the bottle ingredients.

As per Dr. Burrascano's guidelines methylcobalamin b12 injections purchased at commpound pharmacies is the only way to reap the benefits of B12. It is the purest form and the body does not have to work to convert it.

I have had neuropathy and diminished reflexes and I truly believe the methylcobalamin has helped a lot. If you study it, you can find that it can cure Bell's Palsy and regenerate nerves as well as help develop normal sleep patterns.

My LLMD said forget oral forms, they go straight through you and patches I would be hesitant of, the only way to ensure B12 absorption is by injection.

--------------------
www.truthaboutlymedisease.com

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Cobweb
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You lost me after
"Deficiencies of vitamin B12 and folic acid can also cause diminished neutrophil production."

But I can tell you that for two years(and who knows how long before that) my WBC, Hematocrit, and Neutrophils (Absolute) have been consistently Low.

that is-until someone sorted out my med schedule so I can actually follow it-I have been taking my vitamins and supplements consistently as prescribed now for over a month.

Which, according to the label, means I am getting 16,667% daily percentage of B12 and 200% of Folic Acid .

Here's the punch line- for the first time in treatment all my bloodwork was within normal limits! [woohoo]

Carol

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klutzo
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While I did not understand most of that answer, I can tell you that my neutrophils have consistently been too high, not too low. I have low lymphocytes and high neutrophils, a sign of simmering infection.

My symptoms do not fit either the profile of too low methylation or of too high methylation. I find it hard to follow the science behind the Pall Protocol anyway, so I am waiting to see how others do on it first.

I also take chromium and biotin in my daily multivitamin, which I take 6 hrs. away from my Armour Thyroid, so I am doing all that right, according to the info above.

My multivitamin says it has the methycobalamin form of B12 at 33,000 X the RDA. If that form is only available by injection, I wonder how it got into my multi!

I have taken amino supplements many times, both in gelcap form and from whey protein, but I never get any change in my condition from them, even after months of taking them, and I am not made of money, so I've stopped. I continue to take strong digestive enzymes with each meal, hoping that will help me absorb aminos from my food.

I understand from reading research that no matter what they eat or what supps. they take, Fibromyalgia patients have deficiencies of 7 aminos, the only known disease where that is true. Other diseases where aminos are deficient involve either only one amino being too low, or all of them are too low. The reasearch was done by I. Jon Russell. M. D. at a Texas Univeristy....I forget which one. Like many here, my previous dx was Fibro, so I believe it applies to me.

Recently, I did add something that has noticeably helped me. I am taking 600 mgs. NAC daily with a meal, which is nothing new. But, I have added about one gram of L-gluatmine powder each morning, in water, on an empty stomach. Those two things are supposed to work together, along with vitamin C, which is in my multivitamin, to raise glutathione, among other things.

If I take more than one gram of L-glutamine, I get really sick (anorexic, head pressure and fog, flu-like malaise), so I think I must not need more than that, and may be converting it to glutamate if I take the higher dose indicated on the label, which is 4.5 grams. However, the one gram dose has given me more energy and improved my mood to the point where people are commenting on it. I am even driving again, after almost a year of not driving.

The purpose of adding L-glutamine is to help me make more glutathione, to raise my human growth hormone level, to lower my appetite, and to help heal an intestinal metaplasia (precancerous change) that was discovered when I had a scope put in my stomach recently. It is supposed to be able to do all of those things.


Klutzo

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