posted
I am adding limited Cowden to my abx protocol under the supervision of my LLMD. I just started phasing in the Samento, so I can't give your results ...
He said he's had good luck with Cowden.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
There are many posts on Buhner and a few on Cowden, but numbers are increasing. I guess both approaches are not EXCLUSIVE.
I would think of them as resources for different herbs/ tinctures for treating lyme, coinfections, parasites, cleaning, immune modulation.
I was on Buhner's protocol for borrelia and immunomodulation, Dr. K's protocol for cleaning and ANS 'tuning', with some Chinese herbs for killing coinfections and kitchen spices for various uses.
It took me two years to get rid of lyme and coinfections with a reinfection in between. I believe I'm on a full remission. I'm in month 3 totally symptom-free. Off all lyme and co-iinfection herbs, only treating remnant pre-lyme fungal infection, but even this is finally reaching its end (I hope).
If you want info on Cowden, you can type each of Cowden tinctures like Burbur, Cumanda, Parsley and see what you get.
Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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savebabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9847
posted
I am also on the limited c protocal, but it is still to early to tell if it is working or not.
I am also adding in samento this week, so I will have to repost in a few weeks and give the update.
I heard that many people have had luck with these herbs. Keep you fingers crossed.
[ 05. November 2007, 09:51 PM: Message edited by: savebabe ]
Posts: 1603 | From ny | Registered: Aug 2006
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CherylSue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13077
posted
I've been doing a modified Cowden since July. It took my 3 months to build up to a therapeutic dose of 15 drops/2x daily of Cumanda. I take the burbur drops to help with the herxing.
Cumanda packed a strong punch. I was herxing on 1-2 drops in the beginning. Now, the drops are energizing.
3 weeks ago I started taking Amoxcillin under an LLMD's guidance. I am herxing again.
However, I am improving slowly month by month. I hope to return to work in January.
I have heard that both Buhner and Cowden protocols are good. However, most LLMD's on the East and West coasts are adding Cowden's protocol to their treatment of Lyme. From what I've been hearing/reading these patients are having the best rate of success without relapsing (using both ABX and the nutraceuticals.)
That's my experience.
CherylSue
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
Please remove last names of lyme practioner's per lymenet rules. We want to protect our doctors.
Please follow the rules and remove the last name. I don't recall seeing GIGI use the full last name but I usually ask people to remove it if I notice it.:
5. You also agree not to post the last name, or the first name, of any person that treats Lyme disease. Instead, please use the first initial of the last name only, with the state, but not city. For example, Dr. B. in NY. This person's contact information should not be displayed on LymeNet. However, you may email this information. This is to protect those that treat Lyme and the Lyme community
Thanks Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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charlie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25
posted
are you saying you can't say Cowden or Buhner then????
or have the other posters removed the names of real lyme practitcioners??
not that the herbal protocols don't have a place but the proponents aren't apt to be sued or worse by the cretins in charge...
Posts: 2804 | From Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
I'm not a moderator so I can't answer for absolutely sure but my opinion is that I don't think we have to worry about Buhner because he does not treat patients.
I do think that Dr. C. treats patients and I would think we should not refer to his full name probably. It does present a problem in that his protocol is named after him. I suppose we could call it the Dr. C. protocol. Kind of awkward. We could get the input of the moderator unless someone has a better idea.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
I am on the Cowden protocol along with abx. I just started my 2nd month. I take 30 drops Cumanda 2x/day Samento 1 day and a bunch of detox and immune support things 3/day.
It is hard for me to say it is working as I was doing pretty well prior to starting it. I had been doing abx since 12/05 after being sick for 5 years.
I will say that this month's cycle when I tend to have the worst symtpoms has been the mildest I have had since starting all of this.
My LLMD said that he has seen people in my position have good luck with this protocol. Getting the last push as they go off abx after being close to finished before starting it.
It is complicated but the chart they sent with the 2nd month is great. It isn't cheap even though I get all the stuff through an herbalist and cheaper than through Nutramedix. I feel good :-)
-------------------- Lucy Posts: 342 | From Hawaii | Registered: Nov 2005
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
Good point sixgoofykids - I'll send a request for Jennifer to view the thread and clarify for us.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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I assumed {we know what that does}, that B and C would not be under the same class as a LLMD.
Again, just let me know.
thanks for all of your responses.
Do B and C encourage ABX along with their approach?
Peace, BJG
Posts: 468 | From IL | Registered: Oct 2003
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
BJG, I can understand why this one is not clear. I'm pretty sure that Dr. C. is an LLMD (but in any case he treats lyme) whereas Buhner does not treat lyme (at least last time I heard).
Thanks for your kind response. I'm sure that Jennifer will clarify for us.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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bejoy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11129
posted
I have used a modified B protocol from Healing Lyme.
I have a kinesiologist and a naturopath who both help me decide which herbs and supplemnts to use, when and how long.
I have also used some good homeopathics from Deseret Biologicals (ordered by professional only) not on either protocol.
Mixed these in with about two months of high dose abx, and I'm 90% better in 8 months from 20-30 years of lyme. Just lucky I guess.
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
I don't think the medical review board is bothering doctors who are treating holistically. Just longterm abx.
Least I haven't heard of any. Am I wrong about that?
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
quote: I don't think the medical review board is bothering doctors who are treating holistically. Just longterm abx.
Yes, holistic doctors in Washington State are being targeted but not just for treating lyme disease. The AMA trying to control everything as usual.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
Mini wrote: These people choose to name things after themselves, if they were worried they wouldn't do that.
As far as I know, the only one we are worried about here who has a protocol named after him is Dr. C.. I don't have a clue if he actually named it or if others just started calling it by his name for lack of a better name.
Buhner doesn't treat lyme patients. Edited to add: Dr. K's full name is being used in other threads. Dr. K. has no specific protocol with his name on it. He treats many lyme patients and it is very clear by lymenet rules that his full name should not be used.
Basically, we are trying to protect our doctors but also need to follow lymenet rules. If you dont agree with the rules, perhaps you should write to the moderators and try to get them to change their mind.
Personally I agree with the rule. I have seen threads where some don't agree with this rule. A recent one was started by someone who doesn't need to worry about their doctor because they are in a State that protects doctors who treat lyme disease. Not so in many other States.
I don't understand why people flagrantly disobey the rules and then are very bitter and surprised when they are told they have to leave. If one breaks the rules over and over, don't be surprised when what they were told would happen, actually happens.
BJG - sorry to take up so many messages about this in your thread. Hopefully we will hear from Jennifer soon.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
BJG wrote: Do B and C encourage ABX along with their approach?
In his book, "Healing Lyme", Buhner admits that he is not a fan of abx in general but states that they are warranted for lyme disease. He also states that they are spectatulary effective for many people. From what I can tell, he does not incorporate them into his protocols but I wouldn't expect him to since he is a master herbalist and not a doctor.
I know very little about Dr. C. other than he is an M.D. who treats lyme disease, is involved with holisitic medicine and of course I've heard of his protocol for lyme disease. I don't know if he ever uses abx. Hopefully someone else will come along with an answer.
Minitails2, Sorry you are confused. I'll try to clear that up.
Several recent posts here at lymenet are using the full names of some of our LLMD's (Lyme Literate Medical Doctors) even though the lymenet rules specifically state that we are not to post the last name or first name of any person who treats lyme disease. Please see where the full rule has already been quoted in this thread.
Your post of November 5th conveyed the same thought as another post by Cod of November 4th on a thread where he insists on using Dr. K's full name. http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=060157 Cod: "It seems to me that those doctors who have publicly authored protocols are in a different category,"
In my post immediatly before your post where you parrot Cod's sentiments, I stated that Dr. C. treats lyme. The rules say anyone who treats lyme should not be named. As was stated before your post, we are waiting for Jennifer to clarify for those who are questioning the fact that he has a treatment plan that is identified by his last name.
Minitails2 wrote: And further more, if you don't know, why are you starting an argument with me?
It was not my intent to start an argument with you but simply to keep newbies (you signed on last month) from getting the idea that it is OK to use a lyme practitioner's name.
Minitails2:
quote: Do you want people to get kicked off?
Hmmm.... kind of harsh and not what I said. Having read many of your posts, I feel that you do understand the recent problems this board has experienced but I'll go into more detail just in case I'm wrong and you don't.
We've recently had an upset here at lymenet because one member was removed for not following the rules.
A number of people have been upset by this as evidenced by the thread about this that I know you read because you posted in that thread. My point is that we need to follow the rules if we don't want to be removed.
I apologize if I've confused anyone and hope I've explained the issues adequately.
Rather than take this thread off in another direction than it's orignial intent, (sorry BJG), please PM me if you want to discuss this further.
Hopefully Jennifer will be along soon to clarify things.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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CherylSue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13077
posted
Yeah, this is a sticky topic, alright. What about the Marshall Protocol? Do we say M protocol from now on?
It seems if a doctor or herbalist has an established protocol that is well known (ie. Cowden protocol, Buhner protocol, Zhang protocol) that is should stand as it is. It also educates people to delve futher and do an internet search.
However, individual doctors who practice and follow ILADS guidelines, etc. may not want the publicity. It would be best to refer to them by initial.
Does this make sense?
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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Although I agree, we should never post LLMD's name, if someone, troll wants to find them, they will. As with DR C, it came thru another doc-DUH.
I agree C, B and M are all out there, open to the world.
Am I paranoind, or am I detecting a hypersensitivity on Lymenet?
Seems sad.
Peace, B
Posts: 468 | From IL | Registered: Oct 2003
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JimBoB
Unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by CherylSue: Yeah, this is a sticky topic, alright. What about the Marshall Protocol? Do we say M protocol from now on?
It seems if a doctor or herbalist has an established protocol that is well known (ie. Cowden protocol, Buhner protocol, Zhang protocol) that is should stand as it is. It also educates people to delve futher and do an internet search.
However, individual doctors who practice and follow ILADS guidelines, etc. may not want the publicity. It would be best to refer to them by initial.
Does this make sense?
##
I agree. I have used Buhner's Protocol AND his name for almost two years now, and certainly do not intend to stop. Everything he recommends is legal, and he certainly does NOT recommend LONG TERM abx. NOR do I, or would I take them long term. I respect my body more than that.
Is that 30 drops of Samento and 30 drops of Cumanda ?
When I first started treatment 2 years ago, they started me on Cumanda (under the tongue) and Samento at 2 drops twice a day till I reached 15 drops a day.
How long did it take you to take 15 drops twice a day ?
Sherri
Posts: 116 | From state of lyme | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
No, 30dropd Cumanda 2/day and 20 drops Samento 1/day with trace minerals, parsley and other detox stuff, adrenal, immune support stuff. I know it changes again but I can't recall to what.
You build up the Cumanda slowly over 15 days but I didn't have any reaction. I have been on abx for over 20 months so would hope my germ load is pretty low.
As far as using names. I had seen the protocol names used on here and it isn't the name of my LLMD so I didn't think about it. If I need to edit my posts I will.
-------------------- Lucy Posts: 342 | From Hawaii | Registered: Nov 2005
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
I've written to the moderators again. We should hear something soon.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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that B and C would not be under the same class as a LLMD.![[bonk]](graemlins/bonk.gif)
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