Topic: What kind of doc would biopsy inguinal (groin) lymph nodes?
tailz
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posted
I've been thinking - I know this is more than Lyme - my very first symptom was enlarged (painless) lymph nodes in my groin, and I know it means something. The doc who I showed them to first said, "Oh my God - they're huge." They did an US on them maybe - I can't even remember - maybe they didn't. If they did, they were unconcerned and didn't want to biopsy them.
I kept pointing these lymph nodes out to every doctor after that, arguing with a few, even asking one doc outright to biopsy them. He said, "Do you know the RISKS involved in biopsying lymph nodes?!"
I cowered. I wish I would have realized the whole medical establishment had no clue back then what they were doing. Basically, you present with signs of infection, and they sit and wait to diagnose your cancer down the road.
Interestingly, sweats, painless swollen lymphs that wax and wane, chest tightness, liver and spleen involvement, recurrent infections, lung problems - all are symptoms of Hodgkin's and non-Hodgkin's.
Who would biopsy them? Most of them went down, though I can feel two at least on the left side of my groin still. One is still a good size, the other is tiny, but palpable. They are harder to feel because I finally gained some weight, though I lost a few pounds again recently, but at least I didn't lose muscle this time.
They were so huge at one point though that you could almost see them, and they swelled up again this past spring.
I thought my PCP was supposed to handle this kind of stuff, referring me to a general surgeon? I don't want any more x-rays, CT scans, etc...
The only thing I would let them do to me would be to biopsy the darn things, and that would only be if they could do it without the help of any EMF exposures, since, if I'm right, and this is why my body can't fight infection, I know I got it for the same reason my neighbor's kid developed childhood leukemia - I'm going to take a wild guess here that they placed some sort of wireless antennas on top of the water tower up the street from where I lived and beamed it right at my house, which sits higher than anyone else's in that neighborhood.
Can I refer myself to a general surgeon? - because I have no doc, no PCP, no LLMD. Would it matter? There is no way I would spend the rest of my life going through chemo - no way.
I guess I just want to satisfy my curiosity here. I'll tell everybody here this - if I'm right and anything happens to me, I want every PCP I saw sued. If my daughter ever logs on for me because I'm too sick to do it myself, give her any info you have on me. I have nothing to hide. All I expected from these fools was to save me. Thanks.
By the way, my Rife Consoladated Frequency List says to run specific frequencies for Simian virus (for non-Hodgkin's) and chlamydia pneumonia, pseudomonas, penicillium, aspergillus, and rhizopus (for Hodgkin's) - in addition to the regular frequencies for these cancers.
I have not checked to see which bugs metronidazole, minocycline, and ceftin kill - these are the ones that helped.
I'm curious if mino kills rhizopus, since my tongue turned black and my teeth turned sort of a greyish color this last time (I guess it was a bluish grey) - and this never happened in the past and I'd been on mino for years.
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dontlikeliver
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Tailz,
I really think you should take the advice you've had to your other posts and seek out the help of a Psychiatrist (an LLMD one) and get help with your anxiety issues. I mean that in the kindest possible way.
DLL
Posts: 2824 | From The Back of Beyond | Registered: Oct 2003
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tailz
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dontlikeliver - You are no better than my doctors in how you treat me on this forum. Please ignore my posts from this point forward.
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merrygirl
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Tailz,
I have very large lymhnodes through out my body. I have very enlarged cervical and epitrochlear nodes especially.
As far as a biopsy goes, I believe you would need to see a surgeon.
I think it would be a good idea to get a biopsy. That is my next step.
Try not to worry about Lymphoma, I know it is hard. Lyme and co's can cause the enlarged nodes.
Maybe you should try to find a pcp or llmd?
Good Luck- Melissa
Posts: 3905 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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map1131
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Ladies, I know about clogged lymph nodes. Mine never were visible, but tight and knotty.
Lymph drainage weekly for a couple months will really help. Mine were so bad at one time that my therapist(massage) would get ALL mine flowing and then the next week they were knotted up again.
This went on for about 6 weeks. Then it would just be a couple that were not flowing. So it is a process. Yes, this is money, out of pocket money. But I believe the longer these toxin sit in the lymph the greater the possiblity of them turning cancerous.
I week to every 2 weeks, then 3 weeks, 4 weeks and literally had lymph drainage treatments for about nine months. Today I still have body work and she just checks my nodes to see how they are.
Every once in a while one will be knotty and sore.
Insurance might pay for lymph drainage if you can find chiro office that has massagist that is trained in doing lymph drainage??????
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6478 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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dontlikeliver
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quote:Originally posted by tailz: dontlikeliver - You are no better than my doctors in how you treat me on this forum. Please ignore my posts from this point forward.
I'm sorry you feel that way. I think you're totally misunderstanding me. So, I think I'll give up and leave it at that.
Posts: 2824 | From The Back of Beyond | Registered: Oct 2003
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merrygirl
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Map-
I looked into the massage you mention but it is way too expensive. It would end up being $100 a whack with the tip.
I havent worked in months so it isn't realistic at this point.
I would love to try it though.
Thanks, Melissa
Posts: 3905 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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Cobweb
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posted
OMG hope you don't have Hidradenitis suppurativa.
It's a rare "orphan" disease. I have it-it can be very painful, really flares when my lyme flares.
Mine is followed by GYN who has to lance and drain if sitting in the bathtub for hours does not bring relief.
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posted
Lymph nodes generally swell up when there's an infection in the vicinity. Since many here are infected with Lyme disease, it could explain some of the lymph swellings. It could be cancerous as well.
If an MRI was done and a tumor wasn't apparent or an infection wasn't to blame, then I don't see why they won't do a biopsy for you. I think the benefits outweigh the risks here since a cause hasn't been determined for your swollen lymph nodes.
As soon as you step into a clinic or hospital, you'll be exposed to EMFs. To ask the doctor not perform a procedure w/out it is impossible. Maybe this is why you can't get a biopsy.
By the way, I'm still reading the BioInitiative Report you linked on another post and it's LONG. I think I'll only be able to read the summary.
-------------------- The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good, and how he treats people who can't fight back. -Abigail van Buren (Pauline Esther Friedman) (1918-2002) Posts: 409 | From Florida | Registered: Dec 2005
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merrygirl
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I would also make sure that they take the whole node out instead of a needle aspirate for the biopsy. The two reasons are that if you were to just poke a hole in the node,
you can create a way for potentially cancerous cells to leak out. It also provides more info for the pathologist to determine why the nodes are enlarged.
Melissa
Posts: 3905 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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I don't think the suggestion the see a psychiatrist was meant in a bad way.
One of the main problems that we deal with, with Lyme, is the anxiety and if your not taking any meds for it, or your primary dr. is not Lyme literate, then a Lyme literate psychiatrist could be a good thing.
Lyme causes all kinds of "wacky" symptoms and the swollen lymph nodes is one of the first ones I had, though I didn't know I had Lyme when I first noticed them.
Try to calm down and just go with the flow, so to speak.
No one here is out to get you or put you down. We are only trying to help and getting anxious over every little thing is not helping.
I wish you well and hope you will stop looking at us as the enemies. Between the medical field and these little Lyme "buggers", we all have enough of those now.
Take care Ellen
Posts: 50 | From Port Crane, NY | Registered: Apr 2007
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tailz
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posted
I know this is hard to believe, but I was not EMF-ing back when I asked the doc about a lymph node biopsy. I was letting them zap my lungs, head, and abdomen - over and over again - pretty much anything they wanted to do with me. I drank their barium, let them inject radioactive dye into me, and let them look at any crevice that they wanted a better peak at.
I had mentioned to a psychiatrist I had been seeing years ago for my OCD, depression, and anxiety that my one eyelid didn't always open completely sometimes, usually by the end of the day, and she chuckled and said, "Everybody's face is uneven."
So apparently she had thought I was just obsessing over the symmetry of my face (OCD). Do you realize how crazy some of these doctors look to me now knowing that my eyelid was drooping from infection?
I really was concerned though because these lymph nodes were my very first non-psychiatric symptom (other than acne and seasonal allergies). I'm even more concerned because there was an especially high incidence of lymphoma in the Reading area, and I used to work at a lab in a mall there. I knew a young girl with it.
I also know my tongue and teeth turning black-grey on mino means something, too. All last winter I slept with a heating pad on high against my back. It was the only thing that enabled me to sleep. When I saw Dr.F, I showed him my back - my back had turned this funky bluish-grey where the heating pad had been. Again, this was before I was EMF-ing, obviously. He said this was mold.
Last year I also had a patch of this near my tailbone, at the top of my rear-end crease, too. The doc backed away and wouldn't even get near it. He diagnosed it as eczema, and then a dermatologist diagnosed it as psoriasis. I got rid of that smaller patch by changing my diet alone - this was even before any antibiotics. I didn't get rid of the grey on my back until I stopped using the heating pad.
But I don't think it is unreasonable to be concerned over bluish-black molds or bacteria when my tongue is turning black on a medication that had never done this before.
It isn't an obsession, and frankly, for never having completed a semester of college even, I think I'm doing pretty well here - I think that's why these doctors had problems with me, too. They like nice compliant patients who never question any of their decisions.
Well, guess what? I questioned their menopause diagnosis, and had I listened to them, I'd be dealing with the biological consequences of that, too - along with the estrogen they gave me as 'food' for my (lymphoma) cancer cells. If I learned anything, I learned that they aren't any smarter than me.
This is one of my problems with the medical community today, too - once they learn something, it is nearly impossible for them to unlearn it, so I'm very careful now. For 15 years they were telling me everything was stress and my inability to deal with it, and I learned it was infection. I don't want to fall into the same trap here blaming lymphomas on Lyme for the next 15.
I just started taking cinnamon though, because this is supposed to reset your blood sugar and metabolism, and I lost 3 lbs since starting it - I'm 105 now. My blood sugar had been high this past spring. I believe cinnamon is antiviral. I put it in grape juice and then drink it. It burned the first few times, and I do have these tiny little red dots on the thing that hangs down the back of my throat - it also still points left.
I also started taking turmeric and cumin. These two seem to be helping some. What's interesting is that both of these kill h-pylori, another corkscrew-shaped, virulent bacteria that is common to people who have been on antacids and proton pump inhibitors.
It is easily passed from parent to child, and my mom had a duodenal ulcer and had been on Zantac most of her adult life - so she had this. I had been on Prevacid for years myself.
MALT lymphoma is a possibility if h-pylori is a culprit here. I have trouble with magnesium and calcium, too.
I just ordered mastic gum though, so we'll see. It's supposed to kill h-pylori.
I'm not sure what I'm going to do as far as a biopsy goes. I need to get my copy back from Dr. F of the ultrasound they'd done. I wouldn't let them give me chemo or radiation anyway though, so maybe I'll just add this to my things-to-do list, which includes regenerating my gums, ovary, and uterus. Maybe once I do that, researchers will finally 'get it' that we weren't meant to grow old and die.
Thanks though everybody for your input. Means a lot.
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Health
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Drs will think you are NUTS and need a psychiatrist if you tell them too much.
I learned the hard way. You must be very professional when dealing with Dr's and you cannot get emotional too much. Write things down on a pad of paper, for yourself, before going to Dr.
This is your life, and you deserve to get well, do not absorb the negativity of the Dr's and keep moving to find the DR you want.
I have had to toughen up, to take my stand and find the treatment I need and Dr's, it has not been easy, I started to pray again, as I was loosing it mentally because Dr's were not listening to me,
I was sinking into a depression, so I pray now, and it seems to be working for me to keep going and finding the right treatment.
It is tough. I had to go to another part of me, I never knew I had.
I also found that LYME and candida and toxins can make me VERY unstable and very unrealistic.
I found that treating lyme and candida grounded me. I was told I was not grounded, and i did all this work with counsellors to be grounded, well, this lyme and candida and coinfections were making me unrealistic.
My mind was helped by treatment for lyme/candida and coinfections.
I am still getting well, so my mind is still healing,
YOu can get well too Tailz, you just need to keep going, and rest if you must.
AND, all questions you need an answer for and cannot find them, start a book and write them down, and the date, and the year, one day you will come across the answer, I did.
Dr B's guidlines answered MANY of my unanswered questions, have you read these Tailz? if not I would read them,
I think? I read that Swollen lymph nodes are Bartonella, I know a LLMD said this, I read somewhere.
Have you been tested for bartonella?
Find a LLMD, that is what i suggest,
Trish
Posts: 1250 | From Canada | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Tailz, I have two swollen inguinal nodes, and my doc referred me to a general surgeon to have them removed, in order to be checked by MDLab and another lab for a list of things (lyme, bartonella, cancer, viruses, mycoplasma, etc.) Still trying to get the appts. set up at this time. If they come up with something specific, I'll try to remember to let you know what it's from.
I was told a simple needle biopsy could "miss" possible cancer cells, and might also cause them to spread elsewhere, if any are there. The consensus of my docs was that it was better to get them out and try to find out what was causing them to swell, rather than ignore them. We've been watching them for months, and if anything, they are slowly enlarging--which is why they are concerned. They are only about 1.0 to 1.5 cm in size, not anything huge, but can be seen as a lump just under the skin.
I already had an ultrasound, then CT scan. One tech said it didn't look like any cancer that she has seen in the past, but no one has offered any guess on what else it might be. Probably the lyme or a virus of some sort... BTW, I am on antibiotics and have been for a long time.
The blue-gray color in your teeth is most likely hyperpigmentation from being on the minocycline for over a year. (I have had that, and quit using mino because of it.) It can take months or even years to fade once you stop the drug, but usually the skin problems will go away with time IF you cease using the drug. (I don't know if the blue color on teeth will fade the same way.) Silver (like colloidal silver) can also build up in your system and cause a blue-gray skin discoloration, one which can be permanent.
There are links below where you can see examples of what minocycline does to teeth & skin:
The drug can also cause on the legs larger blue gray spots that look like "bruises", but they don't turn yellow and go away like a normal bruise, such as those here:
"Some known medications that can cause skin pigmentation include anti-malarial medications, anti-seizure medications, and minocycline. Ingestion of metal preparations that contain mercury, silver, bismuth, arsenic, lead or gold can also contribute to hyperpigmentation. Most of the time, a relationship is established between drug ingestion and darkening or irritation of the skin." http://tinyurl.com/2oe73v or try
[ 22. October 2007, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: Virginia of Yore ]
Posts: 193 | From Virginia | Registered: Oct 2002
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tailz
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posted
Trish - I've been praying non-stop. I've been praying though, not so much for my own cure, but that the planet is as unhappy as I am, and somehow I think it is. I even had a nightmare last night that they put a cell phone tower in my one tree.
I don't think you should have to be anything different though than what you really are when you approach your doctor. They should be trained to deal with chronic neuro Lyme, and one person can only take so much. I'm finding it harder and harder to bite my tongue. I may start a journal, but I don't think that will change how I feel.
And yes, I have read Dr. B's guidelines. I've also been tested for bart. I also had been on steroids a couple of times, so my situation could be a little different than most. I know when he put me on steroids this last time, my breathing got much worse. I never got my voice back either.
I'm not even sure now that I would want to know if it's cancer. Would they be able to force me to get chemo and radiation? - I can't handle any more power struggles.
Virginia - Thanks for the pics. My teeth had that bluish haze - not quite that bad, but I didn't realize much of that was just see-through mino stain from the back of the teeth. I had a few teeth that looked like the first pic here (scroll), but this stain in the pic was from some sort of mouthwash in this patient - not mino.
Some of the stain remains between the teeth and in the creases of the biting surface, though it does look like some has worn off on it's own. I go back in 4 months because she only had so much time.
My rashes looked more like this, I think, only there was not very much red and it didn't itch really - it was silvery grey - like the arm in this pic sort of - I think it was some sort of fungus:
My neighbor though said that when I showed it to her the first time it reminded her of her husband - he had died of some sort of fungal infection and she said he was black everywhere. Some of the grey areas were a darker grey, so I don't know.
Let me know though what you find out when you get your lymph nodes removed. How long does it take to get scheduled? If I do this, how do I approach a new doc? It seems every time I start with a new PCP, they want to start over from scratch.
I'm just trying to figure out why they gave me such a hard time when I asked for a biopsy. It seems they wanted to send me everywhere I didn't want to go (to psychiatrists, a second colonoscopy, etc...), yet the things I thought they should have been doing (biopsying lymph nodes, sending me to ID), they fought me tooth and nail.
They were just so darn sure that I was some mental case, that they almost let me die right there in front of them, and I'm having a very hard time dealing with that.
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Aniek
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Tailz, I hope you no longer sleep with a heating pad. That is very dangerous. You can get very severe burns from sleeping with a heating pad.
Heating pads are also meant to only be used for a short periods at a time, like 20 minutes.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
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Truthfinder
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posted
I agree with Aniek - heating pads and electric blankets are a big no-no if you have Lyme.
If you want your symptoms to flare up, use a heating pad or an electric blanket for awhile.
If you must use something like that, heat it up but turn it off before you use it to minimize the negative effects.
Well, you probably know all that NOW, right?
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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tailz
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posted
Aniek and Tracy - Don't worry - I stopped using the heating pad. It was the only thing that helped with the pain though (initially), even though it did a number on my back.
By the time I woke up though, my back hurt worse than when I had gone to sleep. I didn't care - I was happy to sleep for a couple of hours once a week.
I'm still worrying about these lymph nodes though. I wonder if I could schedule directly with a general surgeon? I don't want to go to a GP first - if I tell them I have Lyme, they won't be concerned with the lymphs, especially since I only feel one huge now, as most have gone down considerably.
A GP will just send me in 12 different directions to 12 different specialists, and this is what weakened me over the last 2 years. The only reason I would want to know would be for Rifing purposes - the only way I would get near electromagnetic fields again.
That's one of my problems now - I can't make a decision. I don't know if that's Lyme or not, or if it is just because every decision I make seems to only make things worse.
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Cobweb
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I had a lymph node removed from under my arm pit. Out patient surgery, local anesthesia, surgeon talked about golf with his attendants the whole time, while I counted ceiling tiles.
Results- Hyperplastic-no known etiology. It was not tested for lyme. They were thinking cancer.
In hindsight it probably was lyme-that was 30 years ago-I was just diagnosed with lyme in 2004.
Which means I will probably have lyme for 30 more years-although I don't think I will live that long.
posted
Cobby, did you have to go through your PCP to see the general surgeon?
I would just blame it on Lyme, except I was thinking today - my first symptom may have been these lymph nodes, but my liver appeared 'granular' to the GYN who had done my diagnostic laparascopy for endometriosis - like almost 10 years ago.
Add to that the fact that I was on Klonopin and Accutane, can no longer digest any foods with vitamin A (spinach, spirulina, carrots), and...
I had three consecutive male cats who became ill in my last house.
The first died of fatty liver at the age of 2.
The second died of FIP, a fatal feline virus similar to AIDS, at the age of 2.
And the third had failing kidneys at the age of 2, but survived.
Something weird was going on in that house. I wonder if that 2mm liver lesion that they were dismissing meant something, too? They didn't see it the next time they scanned me, so I don't know what my liver looks like - and I was never a big drinker either. What if I have liver cancer, and the lymph nodes are enlarged because of that?
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Health
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Tailz,
On the bright side, I read that sometimes, Cancer therapy can help people with lyme, sometimes it can make it worse, but sometimes, people go into
remission with lyme, so there you go.
Maybe because the cancer was bringing the immune down>? I dont know, maybe the chemo killed their strain of lyme? I dont know.
I was put on Dexamethasone for a supression test I think it is a steroid, I had my breathing get MUCH worse, I was struggling to breath for several days, I then went off it and 1 week later about, breathing better.
I think you need to try treating babesia one day, it could change your life,
could, not sure.
Trish
Posts: 1250 | From Canada | Registered: Aug 2004
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tailz
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There's no way I could handle chemo though. I couldn't even handle 3 hours sitting at a garage today getting my car inspected. Plus, I lost enough hair already.
I'm trying to figure out why I can take my car in and nobody blames the brake fluid that's leaking on stress - or the wheel bearing noise on OCD. Nobody judges my car though. They just look at it, see where it's leaking, listen to where it's making noise, and fix it.
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hshbmom
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Hi tailz,
I ran across this article this morning and thought you'd be interested.
Lymphadenopathy: Differential Diagnosis and Evaluation American Family Physician, journal of the American Academy of Family Physicians, Oct. 15, 1998
Vol. 58/No. 6 (October 15, 1998)
This medical journal article describes the normal sizes of various lymph nodes, and the causes of lymph node enlargement, including Lyme and TBDs
Posts: 1672 | From AL/WV/OH | Registered: Jun 2006
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Have you tried the mini trampoline. This seemed to work well for me between Rife treatments. It sounds silly but I think it does get the lymphatic system going.
-------------------- RV Posts: 249 | From Healing in USA | Registered: Mar 2005
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david1097
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Here is a perhaps sad observation but is fact.
Most Dr's will make a judgement on how sick and subsequently how to agressively to treat a patient in the first 10 seconds upon entering the examination room for the first time.
Things can only go down hill from there.
Keep this in mind next time any one goes to see a new Doc.
Posts: 1184 | From north america | Registered: Feb 2003
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tailz
Unregistered
posted
Mine are rubbery. Some have gone down some - not all of them though. It says that suggests lymphoma.
I avoid sugar and protein, too, because they make me sick. There was also an increase in Hodgkin's in the Reading area. I worked in Reading for a while for a lab, and I also lived in Berks County. In fact, Hodgkin's or non-Hodgkin's were my first thought when I found them.
I had lost weight, was so tired - I literally slept entire weekends away (20 hours some weekends), just so that I could get to work to keep the house going - and pay vet bills while my pets were also dropping like flies.
I lost 2 successive male cats (both age 2) - one died of fatty liver - the other died of FIP, a fatal feline virus. A third cat went into renal failure at the age of 2, but miraculously lived, but still struggles. I notice he and I both look sick when the EMFs are especially high in this house, too.
The vet told me if you have an immune system, you can't get FIP. Who knows, maybe I caught FIP, too, and it caused some sort of cancer?
Here's what my ultrasound report says:
Multiple images of the groin areas were obtained using grey scale technique.
Multiple hypoechoic areas noted in the inguinal area. Echogenic centers and well-defined areas are present, compatible with multiple lymph nodes. The largest lymph node in the right side is 16 x 3mm and on the left side is a 14mm node.
Impression: Multiple well-defined lymph nodes are present within the inguinal area. The largest is 16 x 3mm located in the right inguinal region.
So basically, they just measured them. It was a waste of my insurance money because everybody could feel they were 'huge' - my doctor's own words. Nobody bothered to biopsy them though. This report is dated 06.25.02. That's over 5 years of cancer growth, if that's what is going on.
I kept mentioning them to my PCP (Dr. C) - he accused me of trying to lose weight. He thought I had anorexia nervosa, probably because I was on psych meds, and I guess anorexics don't get lymphomas?
I mentioned this to another PCP in the area (Dr. S and Dr. N both) when I was growing increasingly weak and thin - to the point of being eventually diagnosed with malnutrition. And even to an anorexic I looked malnourished.
In fact, I showed these nodes to every PCP in the area. Dr. N though raised his voice like I had suggested something stupid when I'd suggested a biopsy, "Do you know the RISKS involved in a biopsy?"
I don't know what to do. It even says in my record that 'patient thinks she has cancer'. I honestly think I do. I'm not kidding either. In fact, if I have it, it's probably in my liver, lung, and brain now.
I don't even want to lay eyes on a doctor again. I cannot handle being slapped around anymore by this medical system. I just can't.
I don't want chemo. I don't want radiation. I just don't want to be a rat in a cage anymore with no options.
I'm taking mastic gum though - in case it is MALT lymphoma. I give up. How could they not biopsy these nodes?
Thanks for the article though on lymph nodes.
I was looking at trampolines last year - they're expensive though, so I don't know. Maybe I can get one here.
I guess I'm going to avoid proteins and sugars forever. But I have one request here - if anything happens to me and my daughter (Jill) logs on here, I want an autopsy, and I want her to access every post of mine for the purpose of suing whoever should have biopsied these nodes.
Chemo would kill me now. I can't even handle everyday chemicals.
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