posted
I am taking 500mg 2 x day of Ceftin and have been for 10 weeks. I feel like I am dying. I am too tired to bathe, not sleeping well and jsut feeling weak and achy. Is it okay to stop for awhile to let my body catch up? I know this isn't a high dose or anything but about 2 weeks in I started feeling worse and do each week instead of feeling better after a herx. Can herxing last nonstop this long? I have not had one good minute since this started. Thanks for any input.
Posts: 146 | From Midwest | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
It can last non-stop for a REALLY long time. I don't want to depress you here.
Why don't you ask your LLMD if it's OK to stop for 2 days? That way the keets won't get the upper hand and you'll get some relief.
Just a non-medical suggestion.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96223 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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TerryK
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posted
Yes, it can last a long time. I would beef up my detox - intracellular, neurotoxins, metals. Also make sure you are not having a reaction to the meds.
Ask you doctor before going off of anything.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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trueblue
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posted
I'd talk to the doc about a bit of a break.
The LLMD I started out with insisted patients back off when herxes got very bad. He felt it was too much stress on the body to push it too hard. I am thankful he felt that way.
I have trouble detoxing or clearing many medications and the breaks made it possible for my body to keep up.
I've always felt, a herx, then a clearing and then cycling around again was what I was aiming for. When I hit the place of continuing escalating herxes it was time for me to take a break.
Not medical advice just my personal experience.
-------------------- more light, more love more truth and more innovation Posts: 3783 | From somewhere other than here | Registered: May 2005
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JimBoB
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posted
Some people die from herxes.
I HAD to stop abx after less than two months on it. Just couldn't take it anymore. BUT I didn't stop HELP.
I went on herbs, only, for the past 23 months, and am doing quite well. Feel better now than in years. MUCH better.
Get Stephen Buhner's book "Healing Lyme" naturally.
posted
Thank you all for your replies so far. I really appreciate it. I think it is time for me to talk to the Dr about taking a break.
Posts: 146 | From Midwest | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
There's so many variables for why this is happening to you, so I think seeing your Dr. is imperitive. I've been there and there are things that can be done. Good Luck!
Posts: 161 | From midwest | Registered: Jul 2007
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Rianna
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I am also advised to back off during a herx, let it clear then to restart - I am sure if you speak with your LLMD he will confirm this is OK -most good LLMDs state the saddest cases they have seen are people that have herxed to hard and that it is better to go slow and steady without causing permanant damage by braving a herx out for to long.
Posts: 1172 | From UK | Registered: Jan 2007
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dmc
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posted
talk to your doc. I was told not to back off or stop while herxing (in my circumstance) whenever I herx.
That is what non-llmds do...they have you stop abxs when you get the herx reaction thinking it's bad.
My llmd is one of the famous ones...past pres. & founders of ILADS.
You have got to talk to your llmd first.
[ 25. October 2007, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: dmc ]
Posts: 2675 | From ct, usa | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Hi - I'm sorry your having such a rough time of it. I know it can be just horrible. It is good to check in with your doctor.
The thing that came to my mind right away is detox. It is very important to be proactive in the detox arena. The first time I was on antibiotics for Lyme, I didn't know enough about this and I ended up having to stop treatment. I had made progress in my symptoms, but I was just feeling horrible.
I relapsed.
This time around, I have really tried to use whatever energy I can muster for detoxing. I know you said that even bathing is hard, but hot epsom salt baths (1-2 cups per bath with perhaps a cup of baking soda also) and soaking for as long as I could stand it really helped me. Bring some water into the bathroom with you with Electrolytes in it. You will be sweating if it is hot enough and that is good.
Sweating is good, just remember to replenish your electrolytes. I use them all the time and I feel much better with them.
Other things I have used are detox foot pads, rebounder, dry brushing (especially before that bath), chlorella, vitamin C flushes (to keep your bowels moving - this is very important). Exercise is good, but I realize you are wiped out. Maybe some gentle stretching. Try to get some movement in your body - it will help with the aches and pains. It will seem impossible, but you will feel better afterwards.
Also - perhaps your doctor can recommend an IV that could help you with some detoxing?
Anyway - those are just my thoughts. Hang in there and let us know how you are doing.
Robin
Posts: 276 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2006
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GiGi
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posted
You may want to read some of my posts and links that tell of redistribution of toxic heavy metals and chemicals with microbial die-off. Shifting pains are one of the signs -- if it hurts here today, there tomorrow. Some of it can be prevented.
Take care.
Just sharing our experiences.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
I forgot to mention my Biomat. It is a far-infrared, negative ion crystal mat. It is pricy, but I love it. I can just lie down on it and rest while detoxing. I can adjust the temperature for mild heat or higher heat (8 settings). I can plan to sweat or just have a little time of relaxing heat.
I chose it instead of a far-infrared sauna because it is portable and I can lie down comfortably on it. But, I can still take a "sauna" on it, just by turning up the heat and covering up well - I sweat away!
Robin
Posts: 276 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2006
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CaliforniaLyme
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posted
QUOTE: Some people die from herxes.
JIMBOB- in the name of accurate information, can you give me the name of ONE person who died from a Herx??? There is not a single death on the Lyme memorial page from someone who died of a Herx. There is not one published report on PubMed or through any search engine I know of of someone dying from a herx from Lyme disease. Your statement is potentially injurious to those who might take it as truth and discontinue treatment. Can you give me ONE name with verifying information or a published case report?
Herxing can be potentially very serious in RELAPSING FEVER but that is a disease very distinct from Lyme disease.
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
My opinion is to listen to your body. If you feel you need to back off, it may be wise to do so.
Apparently there are instances, though rare, where a Herx has led to death especially where there is cardiac involvement. If you feel heart palpitations be careful.
Here are a couple of articles that advise being careful:
Clinical pathology of the Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction.
Bryceson AD.
The Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction is a complication that can follow treatment of several infectious diseases. Its most severe form is in louse-borne relapsing fever; in this syndrome the reaction can cause death. Information from studies in Ethiopia during the past eight years is presented, and clinical, physiological, pathological, and immunological features of the reaction are described. Possible causative mechanisms of the reaction are discussed, especially in relation to the role of endotoxin, and an attempt is made to consider this reaction in relation to other endotoxin-associated states.
PMID: 932495 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
I included this one as lyme is also a spirochete like syphilis.
Jarisch Herxheimer Reaction - In early syphilis the reaction is only a minor nuisance. In late syphilis it can on very rare occasions be more serious. Thus in neurosyphilis it may lead to epilepsy or a rapid, irreversible progression, and in general paresis it can cause exacerbation amounting to temporary psychosis. Sudden death has been reported in cardiovascular syphilis.
Be safe,
Looking
Posts: 590 | From Canada | Registered: Oct 2007
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CaliforniaLyme
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Yes, Looking, that abstract and paper refers to RELAPSING FEVER, not LYme disease. They are different diseases. RF is notable for having severe Herxes.
Herxes are NOT fatal in Lyme disease.
There has never been a single documented fatality due to a Lyme Herxheimer reaction. Ever.
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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CaliforniaLyme
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posted
And the second citation is syphilis which is NOT the same disease as Lyme disease.
We had two locals with RF and their disease courses were dramatically different from those with Lyme. It is a different disease and the response to treatment is VERY different.
Looking said:
Apparently there are instances, though rare, where a Herx has led to death especially where there is cardiac involvement. If you feel heart palpitations be careful.
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Obviously, it is impossible to say that there has never been or never will be damage caused by an antibiotic induced Herx. Everyone has their own unique physiology and it is wise to discuss your concerns with your own doctor, but even then don't rule out what your gut is telling you - it's your body.
Since a herx is caused by your body being overwhelmed with toxins that it cannot detox fast enough, a short break might help you get the toxins down to a tolerable level.
Looking
Posts: 590 | From Canada | Registered: Oct 2007
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Andie333
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posted
I'm really sorry you're going through this and I completely understand!
I too take ceftin as my primary abx and have been for the past two + years. In the first month or so, I honestly wasn't sure I was going to survive. My symptoms included, among othres: searing, almost unbearable nerve pain full body paralysis (2 bouts, each lasting about 4 hrs) increased neuropathy excruciating headaches
...not to mention an exacerbation of more general symptoms like exhaustion, mental fatigue, disorientation.
I have an LLMD who doesn't advocate backing off abx unless it's really the last resort.
I stayed with the ceftin, and as others have mentioned, I added detox techniques like lemon-water/ foot detox pads, epson salts baths, dry brushing
In retrospect, I'm glad I did it that way.
I'm back at work fulltime now, and gradually, all my symptoms are improving. It took awhile--about 7 or 8 pretty awful months, though none were as brutal as those first two.
I have no idea if there's one general answer for everyone; I only know I decided to trust my LLMD, and tht turned out to be a good decision for me.
I hope you're able to find something that works for you!
Andie
Posts: 2549 | From never never land | Registered: May 2005
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Rianna
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posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by dmc:[QB] 'I was told not to back off or stop while herxing (in my circumstance) whenever I herx. That is what non-llmds do...they have you stop abxs when you get the herx reaction thinking it's bad'
I am also under a famous LLMD (the same LLMD as many people on this site) and he says you MUST back off during a herx as some of the saddest cases he has seen are those who keep going and cause severe damage- therefore when you say 'non llmd's' tell you not to back off you are wrong.
CherylSue
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posted
My Lyme doctor is Dr. C, and he says mild herxes are okay to tough out. Severe herxes are not, and can cause damage to last a long time even after the medication has been discontinued. He compares recovery to the tortoise and the hare. Be a tortoise - nice and slow to get the job done.
He has based this on his observation over 18 years of Lyme patients.
Apparently, this issue is controversial, much like Lyme issues. I think with more research there will be a general consensus someday. Don't you like being a guinea pig?
CherylSue
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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GiGi
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posted
Supporting the organs/detox pathways while taking a killing med was always as important as the medication itself - for me. Some days were not as good as others.
We have only one heart, one liver, two kidneys. God also gave us a gallbladder for a reason and very often problems could be avoided if attention were paid early enough. Once any of these vital organs are damaged, life will be very different.
If I woke up early mornings around 1-2-3 AM, I knew my liver needed help. Most gallbladder attacks happen around 11-1 AM, per my doc. Check out the Meridian Energy Organ Clock -- it helps to identify problems before they become really serious. I am sure it can be found on the internet. I have also posted it here before.
I think all healing stops when the body is overwhelmed with stress and pain. And I think it really pays to use common sense and know when to back off.
I hope your doctor has the right answer for you. If you trust him, he/she is the one to ask.
Good wishes and take care.
Just sharing what I lived.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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kam
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posted
Suz,
I too went through this. I did back off and then stop to see if it helped.
That did not help I think so I would start back up.
it is so tough to figure this thing out. There are so many variables it seems.
I have noticed that some foods make things worse too.
I know you will be talking to your doc about it.
I just know when I was so bad, I didn't have what it took to get on the phone and talk so I did what I could to get through it.
Detoxing also came to mind. Still haven't got that into a routine yet.
I just know that overtime things have lightened up with me.
Although I still go through some rough times and go back to the backing off or stopping for a while and trying to detox.
With me, I usually am throwing up so getting meds, etc in me is counterproductive anyway.
Posts: 15927 | From Became too sick to work or do household chores in 2001. | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
This may be somewhat controversial, but I don't put too much stock in detoxing.
God knows that when you are feeling that awful, you can't do much but just lie there and wait for the herx to lift.
I took an antibiotic vacation during my worst herx and I am so glad that I did. I came back to treatment feeling much stronger mentally and physically.
Perhaps it set my recovery back some, but I don't regret it. Indeed, as others have said, the tortoise wins the race!
Posts: 390 | From Oakland, CA | Registered: May 2007
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posted
An article written by a Doctor and posted on the lyme memorial page raises a concern about the unfortunate suicides that have occured with lyme patients as having a possible connection to Herxing.
If he is correct, then this is something we all need to be aware of -- so if disturbing thoughts start to plague anyone when taking antibiotics, please inform your Doctor.
Quote:
"Both suicidal and homicidal tendencies can be part of a Jarish-Herxheimer reaction.
I cannot emphasize enough the behavioral significance of the Jarish-Herxheimer reaction. As part of this reaction, I have seen and heard numerous patients describe becoming suddenly aggressive without warning."
Looking
Posts: 590 | From Canada | Registered: Oct 2007
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tailz
Unregistered
posted
I had to stop abx to recuperate numerous times. It could be a herx, and you just need to detox - or it could be some other bug now is free to explode - like babs. That's what I found happens with me. I would ask your doctor.
You might want to consider this as part of your problem, too. I think this might even be the root cause of chronic Lyme:
I measured the fields in my home, and they are definitely higher when I am symptomatic. Like right now - I started feeling lousy again, checked the levels, and the EMFs in my home went up almost a whole milligauss.
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lymebytes
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posted
Been there over and over and over the past 15 months. My herxing will go on forever, unless I cut back. Try not to stop completely, but cutting back to take a "breath" is VERY important.
Tell your LLMD what you'd like to do.
Your body is building toxins from the die off faster than it can rid itself of them.
The best advice I ever got from anyone was, "The point is to kill the bacteria, not yourself". I herx so hard, I get to the point I hope I do die, I mean it is awful and excruciatingly painful. Don't get to that point - it isn't worth it. Somehow, I have survived and with each "round" of killing I get better and better, slowly but surely. This takes time
posted
A strong herx can certainly land you in the hospital. I was in the ER twice from severe heart herxing from babs meds.
What if I had continued taking the meds with no concern for what they were doing to my heart? I could have died.
Would you guys stop attacking each other?
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96223 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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CaliforniaLyme
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posted
LymeToo,
You don't know what if- and to date there have been no reported deaths in that way- and it does matter. I volunteered for years in a detox for street addicts and alkies before I ended up working there- and EVERY single heroin addict detoxing- you know what? Every single one I've ever met, every heroin addict on days 1-7 of detox, thinks they are going to die. They feel that bad!!! But there has *never* been a death from that- there just hasn't been- no matter how bad they feel!! It does not happen!!!!
Alkies, on the other hand, don't even realize that detoxing from alcohol CAN kill them. There are withdrawal seizures which can and DO kill them. It was always so strange hearing this one group of people complain and be fearful when anyone with experience knew there was NO danger- and then this other group (and crossover, yes) but this other group who would NOT be expecting to be carted off to the hospital to avoid an untimely death.
It does matter what we tell newbies and people who are scared.
If there is documented evidence of pepole dying from Herxes I would have a very different reaction. But there is not. You, LymeToo, may have felt like you were dying- but that does not mean you were. What did the ER say? Did they keep you overnight? My husband has had to stay overnight when his heart has been erratic from MRSA. Heroin addicts all over the world who are detoxing are convinced they are on the verge of death all the time- but feeling that way doesn't make it true.
And as counselors working with them, we said, over & over- "You may FEEL like you are dying- but no one has died from this. You are okay." And every single person made it through just fine as long as they didn't go back on.
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
NO, but my BP was high and my heart rate was 125 at rest. They managed to calm things down with some inderal.
****And every single person made it through just fine as long as they didn't go back on.****
Back on abx?? That's my point.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96223 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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sizzled
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posted
California Lyme, you have been around a long, long time(well, not saying you are OLD!!! )
I believe you.
Thank-you!
Posts: 4258 | From over there | Registered: Jul 2001
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CaliforniaLyme
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posted
No, back on HEROIN!*)!! But I know you don't do that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I *do* respect that you had a horrible episode and that you listened to your body and it worked for you. But when our bodies are sick, they do not always tell the truth- like heroin addicts bodies who tell them that heroin will make them OKAY- because their bodies tell them they are dying- when they are not...
I am glad you did what you did, LymeToo, because if you were going to be the first documented Lyme/Babs Herxing death I woouldn't want it to happen!!! We would miss you awfully and I am so glad you are here*)!!!
But when I jump in on Rife threads or herbal threads I say, "Rife scares me. I'm not sure it's safe." I don't say, "People die from Rife herxinG!" (I wouldn't either but if I did, boo-rah! there'd be a riot!) I just think it is important to be accurate and in this case not scare someone to death who was otherwise in no danger from it.
Best wishes all, Sarah
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Peacesoul
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posted
I'm so surprised there are lyme sufferers on here that do not believe in detoxing. When we eat something bad, our bodies throw it up or excrete via the bowels. The body has the capacity to sweat etc. We are designed to detox or yes, we would die. If you're putting a ton of toxins in your body, such as bad food, abx and not to mention the toxins in the environment alone, how can you think the body can detox on it's own? It's a fact that people who suffer ANY illness heal quicker and are less sick when they lower toxic levels in their bodies, eat clean and exercise. I'm not an llmd, but I truly believe herx'ing for too long or too intense will harm you. Maybe not kill you, but harm your body for good. If one has let's say a UTI twice a month for yrs, eventually the bladder will die. Intense herxing has ZERO benefits
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TerryK
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suz9601 How are you doing?? We care, please let us know.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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heiwalove
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posted
when our immune systems are compromised by a chronic infection such as lyme, we are unable to detox properly and need to help the process along. it seems like common sense to me.
quote:Originally posted by heiwalove: when our immune systems are compromised by a chronic infection such as lyme, we are unable to detox properly and need to help the process along. it seems like common sense to me.
it's total commom sense. It's like if someone overdoses on drugs, they need to get their stomach pumped in order to survive. Does one think that our bodies will naturally eliminate those toxins..wrong! Sure, 50 yrs ago when our enviroment was cleaner and we had less chemicals in our foods, maybe our bodies were better equipped to detox, but in today's world along with putting TONS of ABX in them, there is no way our bodies can excrete all of that as quickly as needed. Some people have constipation issues and if they do not have a BM in a week, the body is NOT doing it's job in detoxing (since a bm is a form of detox). Should they leave the stool in there to get sick, or should they find a way to eliminate? Makes sense huh?!
Question, for those not detoxing, how long or how bad are your herx'es.
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Peacesoul
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quote:Originally posted by minitails2: Ellie K,
I'm with you on the detox thing unless someone can come up with actual evidence. As many have stated our bodies are built to get rid of "toxins" so I'll let my body do it's job unless there is a reason to help it along.
not to start a debate, but you want actual evidence on if detoxing works but aren't you being treated for lyme. An illness where there is little evidence that chronic lyme exists
The body detoxes on it's own, and when it does, we can survive in a healthy manner. To think that helping detoxing along (like when one would take a laxative)is not necessary, then this lacks common sense. I'm not going to try to convince anyone about the importance of detoxing, but why not do all that you can to help progress healing? By the way, I don't condone excessive detoxing (Like constant coffee enimas or lyphe drainage) but I do condone detox baths, natural liver cleanses, juicing, making sure you have 3-4 bm's a day and drinking a TON of water. I'm not extreme, but I'm smart enough to know when I need to keep my body at a good detoxing level.
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CaliforniaLyme
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I have never done any detoxing and I have done great. People in full remission from our group over the years- only two did stuff like detoxing that I can think of- and one of them just relapsed-!!! Others, nope, they really didn't-
I think it's important for longterm chronics, that's the group I see embracing it, trying to keep a balance to keep themselves as well as possible- But with the people who go into full remission- nope, not really...
Very sincerely, Sarah 100% symptom free with no detoxing, ever for Lyme!!! except detoxing from alcohol/drugs in 1990
p.s. Hey, maybe I was ALREADY so pure I didn't need to*)!*)!! (Yeah right*)!*)!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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heiwalove
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posted
sarah,
you said you've done great without detoxing, but how bad were your herxes while you were treating lyme? detoxing properly helps keep herxes to a minimum, so you can kill lots of bugs without feeling like you're going to die.
TerryK
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Member # 8552
posted
According to what I've read from Dr. S and Dr. S, about 25% of the population have a genetic problem getting rid of borrelia toxins, spider toxins and/or mold toxins.
My sister had the genetic tests and she has problems with all 3. This is what the cholestyramine and actos protocol is used for. There are other things that can be used as well. Search here for further info.
It is said by some doctors that if one cannot get rid of these toxins on their own and they do not use something to get rid of them, they will not feel well, even if they get rid of their infection. This makes some sense because as most of us have read, many of our symptoms are related to the toxins that are created by our infection.
My LLMD ran some tests on me when I was so ill after the first 6 months of abx and he said that we were killing LOTS of bugs but I was not getting rid of the intracellular toxins. My understanding is that this is seen in a number of lyme patients. BTW - Borrelia, bartonella and babesia are all intracellular organisms.
In my opinion, part of the reason that I felt better during an abx break is because I stopped killing bugs/making toxins and continued using detox to clean up. After a few weeks, my arm pain that I'd had for years, magically went away! When I started back with abx, I started feeling sick again, likely due to toxins.
I personally beleive that the reason some people cannot take abx is due to problems with detox. Common sense tells one that if they are dumping a lot of debri into their body via abx/or herbal bug killing and that debri causes symptoms that getting rid of the debri will help them feel better.
Also, for those of us who have been sick for decades and have difficulty getting rid of biotoxins, we start treatment with a huge load of toxins to begin with. We add a lot more toxins when we kill more bugs. This may tip us over the edge with symptoms and put more strain on an already sick body. I'm glad there are people here who have a great ability to detox. Unfortunately, I'm not one of them.
I trust my LLMD and my response to treatment. I personally need help with detox and I've no doubt that my sister and a number of others with lyme are in the same boat.
There have been many discussions here about the need for detox. Do a search for more info.
[ 07. November 2007, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: TerryK ]
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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Peacesoul
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posted
quote:Originally posted by CaliforniaLyme: I have never done any detoxing and I have done great. People in full remission from our group over the years- only two did stuff like detoxing that I can think of- and one of them just relapsed-!!! Others, nope, they really didn't-
I think it's important for longterm chronics, that's the group I see embracing it, trying to keep a balance to keep themselves as well as possible- But with the people who go into full remission- nope, not really...
Very sincerely, Sarah 100% symptom free with no detoxing, ever for Lyme!!! except detoxing from alcohol/drugs in 1990
p.s. Hey, maybe I was ALREADY so pure I didn't need to*)!*)!! (Yeah right*)!*)!
I just read in another thread you also eat a lot of junk food, so just maybe you're one of the lucky few that can pollute and not detox. The majority of people with chronic illness are not this way. Detoxing is part of an over all healthy lifestyle w/ or w/out an illness. One can eat like hell and never exercise, but will prob not be able to ward off other illness if they came about. The strong less toxic person normally can fight off illness better. Also, if you were an addict, you already had a lack of caring for your health and body. Can I ask, did you go into recovery only after you were diagnosed with lyme?
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CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
Peacesoul,
Nope, I have been in recovery for a long long time, at least I think so- 17 years and counting!! Got Lymed 10 years back- got sober when I was 21 years old - so on the contrary I think getting sober so young reveals a very determinedly healthy person. In fact, even in early sobriety I was super athletic and did 200 push-ups and 200 sit-ups a day- and swam 25 laps a day- I was in incredible shape!!!!!!!!! Was one of those perfectly muscular tiny women back then- (those were the days!*)!*)! AND I weightlifted too*)!!! (I get tired just READING that- ah youth*)!!!!!!!!!!
A lack of caring? Nope, as a drug & alcohol counselor by profession I can tell you that you are wrong in your estimation of addicts in that regard. Yes, there is frequently demonstrated a lack of ability to care for oneself when one is inthe throes of addiction or alcoholism, but there is not neceasarily a dearth of caring for oneself than in any other population. In fact, in my experience addicts & alkies tend to care excessively for themselves*)!*)!*)!
Yes, I eat junk food. YUM!*)*)!)! I also have a very GOOD diet most of the time- no salt, no sugar, no junk food- 95% of the time! But junk food, like many things in moderation, is great!*)!*)*!)!*)! I also, as I have ALSO written, eat a GREAT many fresh herbs daily (not marijuana though just to clarify*)! that are healthy & anti-bacterial...
Heiwalove, I was one of the worst local Lymies we have, right in there with the MSers and ALSers in terms of severity of disease and potential mortality. I am not attempting to be evasive in any way, I am just pointing out I was not your average bear, I was an ultra neuro-clearly on the path to death bear.
That said, I had horrific Flagyl herxes which is common with Lyme- but other than that, no, not particualryl bad Herxing at all. Only Flagyl was awful (which is not unusual). Even, when chnaging meds since IV, definitely herxes, but not in any way incapacitating. I continued to progress for months while on IV but that was because I was so bad. When I did become responsive and began to improve on Rocepihn I had no Herxing at all-!! It is always hard to say if my continued progression was Herxing or simply continued progression- the grey area-
My Herxing, with the exception of Flagyl, has always been SLEEP! I definitely have that narcoleptic subtype. When I herx, I sleep! It is not a particualrly unpleasant Herx at all, especially if I have good dreams. Just just ultra, ultra sleepy... unable to stay awake- and after IV never incapiciating-
Anyway, Drinking my morning coffee, Yup, I love caffeine too*!*)*)! Best wishes all, Sarah
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
p.s. Just to clarify- YES I eat junk food- but in moderation, not as A Junk Food Diet. AT least 95% of my meals are very healthy- no salt- no sugar- my husband is diabetic and on a strict diet-!~!!
I eat and cook wonderful things- the vast majority being very healthy- My kids have never once eaten at a Burger King or Wendys or whatever. I myself was 17 before I ever ate at a fast food restaurant!!
But I do enjoy cheeseburgers here & there- and chocolate creme brulee'!*)!)*!)!*)!!!!!!! And Chicken Fricassee made with heavy cream!!! & gourmet cakes made with 3 kinds of chocolate-
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
Sarah, Must be nice to have reasonable herxes. I have been in an almost continuous herx for 17 months.
If it weren't for detox support I could simply not tolerate treatment, period. My sister is the same in needing detox support.
I've had my liver phase I and phase II tested and it is reasonble but I still have to watch my liver enzymes and I still have to do aggressive detoxing or I am so sick that I literally can't function.
I think older bodies don't have the same ability to detox or throw off infection as well as a younger body but I also think genetics has a lot to do with it as has been mentioned before.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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Peacesoul
Unregistered
posted
Sarah, thanks for your kind and respectful reply. I was not trying to offend or point a finger but to figure out your situation as to where u would not need detoxing. Most of my friends are cancer researcher or dr's (I worked in Medical research for 8 yrs along with addiction issues) and many people on chemo, interferon etc are set up for detox via their dr's or nd's. The fact that you never felt you needed to detox and still got well worked for you, but doesn't work for the majority of people with chronic illness. It's safer to condone detoxing than to promote non-detox and a bad diet. Yes, I did assume when you said you ate junk, that that was your main diet. I think everyone dabbles in naughty food once and a while. I know this, I've always done some form of detox (even when I was healthy) and feel that it prob saved me in many ways. It's always a benefit to others to promote wellness.
I would address the other post above you, but I didn't come here for drama. There seems to be a lot of drama on this board. But I think my above post explains it all Again, thanks for the kind reply :-)
quote:Originally posted by TerryK: Sarah, Must be nice to have reasonable herxes. I have been in an almost continuous herx for 17 months.
If it weren't for detox support I could simply not tolerate treatment, period. My sister is the same in needing detox support.
I've had my liver phase I and phase II tested and it is reasonble but I still have to watch my liver enzymes and I still have to do aggressive detoxing or I am so sick that I literally can't function.
I think older bodies don't have the same ability to detox or throw off infection as well as a younger body but I also think genetics has a lot to do with it as has been mentioned before.
Terry
Terry, you can compare it this way. I have friends who drink coffee all day, eat like crap and smoke 2 packs a day. They never work out or do anything healthy for themselves, yes they always feel great and never get sick. Yet, I will smoke a cig and have a glass of wine and pay for days from it. That doesn't mean they are healthier than us, it means they are able to withstand higher levels of abuse. Everyone pays the piper one day
I just started abx so I'm wondering how bad my herxes will be. I've been on good detox for a week now to gear up.
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CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
Peacesoul, I didn't take your post meanly at all. Thank you back*)!*!
Um, the only tihng is, I have been the TBD Support Group Facilitator in Santa CRuz County, CA, the highest place for Lyme in CA, for 8 years now- and of the over 300 people who have come through- there is just NO link between "detoxing" and full remission- at all!!! In fact, if anything there is an inverse ratio- because the people who full remission that I know don't tend to mess around with detoxing.
So when I hear you folks espousing it as necessary it is just plain *weird* to me, because around here it just ain't so!!!
Nicely back, And I don't endorse a bad diet, I have a VERY healthy diet!!! As I posted in other thread, I do eat junk food, happily, but don't have a Junk Food Diet- And locally, Minitaliz, Jenni, was at the last meeting and can verify that no one in our group there even follows the Lyme diet thing- She can't verify the full remission no connection to detox thing because she is relatively new-
10 years ago you couldn't FIND posts re Lyme diet or detox on Lyme boards- it is a trendy hyped thing in my opinion- and I mean that with utter respect, truly- NOT all of it, sure, for some people I believe there is benefit, but that doesn't necessarily even have to do with Lyme!
Sincerely, Sarah
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
There are people here who think they know everything and continue to harass anyone that doesn't agree with them.
If you are newly diagnosed with Lyme, find a good LLMD and do as much research on Lyme as possible. Be aware that what works for one person may not work or be right for you.
Kathy
-------------------- You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have. Posts: 807 | From South Dakota | Registered: Jul 2005
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Peacesoul
Unregistered
posted
Sarah, I was not saying detoxing causes remission, but detoxing can and does help with herxing. Heck detoxing when not sick with an illness keeps one alert and keeps our "machines" free from gunk. It really is a "to each his own" situation and a personal decision on how to heal or stay healthy. Like I said in a previous post, I'm not here to convince anyone to detox, but in my personal opinion, it worked and works for me.
Now pass the chocolate chip cookies ;-)
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Hey, California, maybe JimBob meant you may WANT to die in the midst of a severe herx.
Thanks for giving us the facts.
Peace, BJG
Posts: 468 | From IL | Registered: Oct 2003
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CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
I AGREE with you Peacesoul- that what works for some may not work for others*)!*)!*!
And thank you BJG- don't think that's what he meant but that's nice of you-
And Kathy is right- Aiden24-
We all should do what we find works for us*)!*))!
Take care all, Signing off this thread amicably, Sarah
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Peacesoul
Unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by minitails2: Now, Peacesoul, none of what I say is for the sake of drama. I believe I'm allowed to respond to your posts. As someone recently made fun of me regarding my neuro issues, as a way to handle my difference of opinion, I was very sad to see such a thing happen again.
I guess where Cali lyme and I are, we just tend to be very pragmatic. Whatever works, we all support, unless, of course, it's clear that someone is in big trouble and can't see it, suicide, that sort of thing.
None of us, our group, feels a need to convince others that what we're doing is RIGHT. I too have not had awful reactions to herxes. I have a feeling that on this web site in general, "herx" is misused by some, perhaps not understood. Finally, although I am simply not dogmatic, I wouldn't want to stand around trying to prove any of my "theories" right as some end of life "I told you so."
Fair enough....thanks for the explaination. And anyone who would make fun of someones illness, shows that that person has more than their physical illness to content with. Making fun of others just shows a lack of maturity. Gathered info and sharing of this info is a great way for others to feel less alone and to find their path to healing. I think it's awesome when people come together like this (or other health boards) and help one another. It makes us human
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