Topic: Dividing lymenet into alternative and conventional treatment?
hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
Someone from another thread suggested that, because of so many discussions going on here in lymenet lately, people being banned etc.
I find it's a great idea. Besides 'Medical Questions', why not having an 'Alternative Medicine Questions' part?
What does everyone think? If many are in favor of it, we could contact lymenet administrators and ask if there's a possibility to do so. I would love to see such a separation because of what's going on lately here.
People with mixed type of treatment would visit both parts.
Any suggestions/ comments?
Selma
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
I love this idea and I think the time has come for it. Lymenet is *the* site on the web for information, and most of the arguments have been over p.o.v.----alt versus mainstream, herbal versus antibiotic, energy medicine vs. hocum pocum, experimental (MP) versus conservative & safe etc etc.
However I wonder if you can still curb arguments. For example, on a city forum called city-data today I was reading a thread someone put up because they were tired of the bashing of Long Island. Some people living there love it. And so they started a thread where fans/denizens of long island would post what they love. And soon the bashers came over to diss Long Island! Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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Aniek
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5374
posted
Selma,
This has been discussed many, many times before on this board. The problem is where do you draw the line.
Probiotics are supplements and therefore, in many circles, considered alternative medicine. But almost every LLMD recommends the use of probiotics with antibiotics for Lyme.
Most LLMDs include some combination of medication and supplements. There are many supplements in Dr. B's guidelines.
There is also the fear that people new to the board might stick to medical and not ever go to the alternative section and read things that, while may be alternative medicine in the medical world, are pretty mainstream among those of us on the board, like taking magnesium.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
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CherylSue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13077
posted
In my opinion, T think the board should stay as is featuring both alternative and allopathic treatments. There's nothing wroing with a little "discussion." That's what get people thinking. We also get the best of both worlds.
CherylSue
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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But I'm also ok with it remaining just as is. I just think it might help alleviate some of the "wars" going on if these 2 subgroups existed.
Even though some conventional doctors use alternative methods, it doesn't change the fact that it's alternative.
But I don't think it'll be a big deal if someone were to mention treatments used in both conventional and alternative in either section. But some treatments are clearly alternative and others are clearly conventional and those are the threads that could benefit by having a specific section to go in.
Even if there are subgroups, it probably won't stop the debates and it shouldn't. Healthy debates are good and it allows for others to make better, informed choices about how they want to go about getting treatment.
There were complaints that one group's posts dominated the 1st page of "Medical," burying the other group's posts and that's another reason why I think having 2 subgroups will help.
-------------------- The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good, and how he treats people who can't fight back. -Abigail van Buren (Pauline Esther Friedman) (1918-2002) Posts: 409 | From Florida | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
I think we all just need to be more respectful of each other.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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tdtid
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10276
posted
I'm one doing antibiotics and Zhang with some other herbs all together and have been since the day of my diagnosis. Where would I go?
Would I have to curb my questions to only talk of abx in one and only alternatives in the other, when actually I'm interested in those that are doing COMBINATIONS.
Cathy
-------------------- "To Dream The Impossible Dream" Man of La Mancha Posts: 2638 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
tdtid you've got a point. Personally, I don't think it would matter if you were to post a combination of both types of treatments in either group.
But I guess there's a potential problem with others complaining that a post doesn't belong because it's not what they deem to be alternative or conventional or whatever.
-------------------- The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good, and how he treats people who can't fight back. -Abigail van Buren (Pauline Esther Friedman) (1918-2002) Posts: 409 | From Florida | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Lymetoo I agree that respect is the overall main issue regardless of what kind of treatment is being discussed.
The other issue for me is being responsible with the information that is shared on this board. Choose your words carefully.
-------------------- The best index to a person's character is how he treats people who can't do him any good, and how he treats people who can't fight back. -Abigail van Buren (Pauline Esther Friedman) (1918-2002) Posts: 409 | From Florida | Registered: Dec 2005
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hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
Aniek, if you think that magnesium, milk thistle, artemisinin, and probiotics are alternatives, it's true that it gets difficult to separate.
I consider these more main stream than alternatives. No one here is criticizing the other for taking probiotics, magnesium or milk thistle, right? We usually don't doubt much about their value, in most posts.
I guess there's no problem on these 'supplements'. The problem is on the 'controversial' treatments.
Things like homeopathy, Healing Lyme B's protocol, Dr. LC from NY tinctures, Dr. Z's Chinese herbs from NY, IRT, rife, microcurrent, hyperbaric oxygen, salt/C, Marshall protocoal, muscle tests, Acupuncture after Voll, accupuncture, craniosacral, laser therapy etc these fall more on the alternative side.
Lots of posts against these type of treatments, hot discussions etc.
I don't know, I just thought it was a good idea as people are being banned from lymenet because of such hot discussions that usually bring nothing but banning...
Either one side or the other: no one is pleased.
CHERYL, I also think certain amount of discussion is good. The problem is that, many times, it's not a real discussion, but lots of disrespect, bad jokes, threads get stuck due to side discussions that are not related to the theme. That's why people get banned.
I don't think this division alternative x conventional would make discussions be avoided, as there's nothing like "all alternatives are good" as there are not "single abx protocols" that will fit for all.
I find it sad to see people saying "I won't recommend lymenet to my relative because of the bad information going on, too many non-proved alternative treatment, it can be dangerous".
Lymenet is still a great place for exchange of information, no matter what you choose to do.
And on the other hand, others saying "I don't feel like posting here anymore about my experience with alternatives". Believe me, it's not easy to post about an alternative treatment being helpful. You'll get loads of comments implying you're lying, for example or just the mere comment 'it can't be true'.
It's no problem for anyone on any abx posting about one abx being helpful, right? It's not the same for alternative treatments.
Discussions won't end, I'm pretty sure. But hard core 'alternative' posters and hard core 'allopathic medicine' posters would stick to their sides, while "in between" people would go from one side to another, possibly posting the same thread on both sides?
There's one German forum that already do that: only conventional treatments are allowed to be posted in the main forum, while there's space for alternatives in another part of it, with much less posters.
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
People doing both are the open guys! You could just visit both sides!
I am for using Riamet, for example. But I'm mostly for herbs on other coinfections. When I have questions on Riamet, I would go to the abx side.
This just complicates the things, of course. But it's an idea to stop getting long term members banned. As I said, there's a forum in Germany doing that already.
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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Peacesoul
Unregistered
posted
They were treating lyme in Europe with herbs over 50 yrs ago, so let's clear this up. I would say ABX are the alternative and the herbs could be considered the conventional in treating lyme.
And I think a separate board is not a great idea. Only because all forms of treatment are helpful
I'm am for both and will go both routes to attack my lyme. :-)
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Beverly
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 1271
posted
I think you have good intentions with the idea, but the question I would have is...if someone on the Regular medical forum asks a question ..like what has personally helped you with such and such a symptom.. can we respond with an alternative treatment or not be able to talk about it at all?
I do see a problem with where do you draw the line?
I use herbs and my LLMD is aware that I use them. I use things to help me sleep like Melatonin and sleepy time tea..is that alternative?
I like LymeNet the way it is, people are capable of being respectful and polite when they want to be. It's a choice. And usually the people who do not mean to offend are very quick to apologize.
I was called an idiot for laughing once and did not receive an apology, some people just want to be rude and that's all. They have a bad day and take it out on someone else, or they are miserable and take it out on someone else. I don't see how we can stop it? It seems like rudness is all over in he world.
Just my 2 cents worth.
[ 11. November 2007, 06:43 PM: Message edited by: Beverly ]
Posts: 6638 | From Michigan | Registered: Jun 2001
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Aniek
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5374
posted
hardynaka,
I don't think the supplements I posted are unconventional. But, as nutritional supplements, they fall into most definitions of alternative or complementary medicine.
But where do you draw the line? You seem to have a clear view of what is alternative and what is not. But what if others don't share your view? Then we end up with arguments about what should go where.
I'm not opposed to the idea in theory. I just don't think it would work.
And, I don't think it would end the fighting. People who want to pick a fight will pick a fight. People who want to spam the board, will spam the board. People will over-react or misconstrue things that were not written in the best choice of words.
-------------------- "When there is pain, there are no words." - Toni Morrison Posts: 4711 | From Washington, DC | Registered: Mar 2004
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tdtid
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10276
posted
Again, being someone that has been on treatment just over a year and since day one, I have been on abx AND Zhang plus other herbs the entire time.
I think part of what really helped me a LOT was the fact that when I went to some meds like Mepron, I was told I couldn't do some of the herbs from people right on this board.
If I had been talking only herbs on one board and only abx on the other, I would have never gotten this VERY important piece of information.
Although things like CoQ-10 is a great supplement, it isn't depending on which meds you may be on. But on alternative, they would be saying "go for it" and on the abx boards I wouldn't be talking about it, so would be in the dark.
I'm just worried that by drawing lines, I'm going to end up not belonging ANYWHERE and that's not a comfortable feeling since Lyme leaves most of us already feeling so darn alone in life.
Just my two cents.
Cathy
-------------------- "To Dream The Impossible Dream" Man of La Mancha Posts: 2638 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
I think its a great idea. I personally am sick of seeing threads about people drinking urine or picking their nose and eating it, LOL.
I think if someone posts a medical question, and someone answers it recommending a supplement or pro-biotic then that is fine.
things like pro-biotics for yeast, or supplements for vitamin deficiencies are NOT alternative treatments for lyme, they are treatments for symptoms that go along with the disease or abx.
(you know that no matter WHAT symptom someone posts tailz is going to say EMF's causes it (LOL) and that should be OK.
but if the topic of the post is about a specific alternative treatment for lyme, like herbs, rife etc, then it goes on the alternatives board.
the only thing I see as "iffy" is marshall protocol (it does use abx, and medicines, not herbs) and HBOX which is an approved medical tx for other things.
i think this would be better for newbies, because they might not know what tx's are alternative and which are not, it would avoid confusion for them.
this way, you cannot bash abx on the abx board, and you cannot bash alternatives on the alternatives board, but you can reccommend each on the other board. all positive, no negative.
Posts: 615 | From maryland | Registered: Oct 2007
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
if my memory serves me corectly,
lymenet does NOT HAVE more spot for ANOTHER FOUM NAMES! theu are all full iht now.
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hardynaka
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8099
posted
Well, I think Aniek is right in saying that people who want to pick a fight will do it anyway!
Wildcondor, thanks for link. I didn't want to subscribe to read it though.
I believe I'm in remission from lyme, and probably soon visiting less lyme forums ... And I don't want more of the junk emails (more than what I receive due to lymenet!), that happen after subscription to forums... But if access to read was free from subscription, I would take a look at it!!!
CATHY, if my memory is good, CoQ10 is one of the main supplements in the list of dr. B from Ilads, so totally conventional. Every lyme patient with a bit of information has heard about it and knows of its benefits.
I don't think ortomolecular supplements are alternatives for lyme sufferers. I guess a lyme patient that doesn't take any supplement is an exception!
There are not many hot discussions with people being banned BECAUSE of ortomolecular supplements, vitamins, minerals, enzymes, probiotics, etc. The problem is not there, even if many would think of these as 'alternative'.
Aniek, I guess we could call 'conventional' and 'unconventional'?? instead of 'alternative' and 'conventional'? The term is not too important.
It's not totally clear to me what is alternative or not, but certainly some things are TOTALLY unconventional like IRT, EFT/ MFT, microcurrents, MMS, all herbal-only protocols, cavitations, etc.
The board itself 'shows' what people think in general as unconventional and not. It's easy to spot the problematic topics, that can lead to someone being banned!
I'm sure most people that POST on unconventional treatments would like a separation. People that read, but rarely post on unconventional treatments, would rather keep the board as it is. Same as for people that post more on conventional treatments. They don't need a special place for posting, as they're 'mainstream'.
My proposal was mostly because I feel the board loses in all senses!
It loses when it loses a member that was successful (even if partially) with unconventional treatments.
When the member get harassed, has to be constantly proving that s/he is telling the truth (that s/he is getting better/ is in remission), that s/he is not profiting from what s/he says just because the treatment is unconventional and decides to leave, that's a loss, I feel, for the ones that are still looking for alternatives from conventional treatments... It happened many times, on an on again. People simply drop the board.
On the other side, some conventional tx people feel it's a shame that things like IRT, EFT, muscle tests are discussed here. They think this is absolutely crap, no way they will EVER think of trying stuff like that. Even homeopathy and EMFs are thought of being out of 'space'. They feel the board is 'contaminated'!!
To leave the board as it is, is good for the ones READING about alternatives, but NOT for the ones POSTING on alternatives. The board loses again because many don't post here for fear of being bashed. And the ones who post, will only post partially about their experiences, or will post less and less (again, a loss).
And the board as it is is not good for the ones who wish 'hard core alternatives' just disappear because they spoiled a good 'medical board' that lymenet was!
Some may decide to leave because of that or not to indicate lymenet to an infected person, with fear that 'that type of person will take only herbs if he reads lymenet'!!!
Anyway, I'm just rambling...
Posts: 1086 | From Switzerland | Registered: Oct 2005
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map1131
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2022
posted
Seems like I would have to post my responses to others seeking advice in two different forums...
1)The traditional medical thread and my advice to get to a LLMD and do many detox protocols and any thing the LLMD recommended like supps, herbs etc.
2)In the alternative forum I would need to answer their post and explain why their abx might be failing them and letting them know there are other options besides abx treatment?
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6478 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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