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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Glucosamine sulphate vs. Glucosamine HCl

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Author Topic: Glucosamine sulphate vs. Glucosamine HCl
Truthfinder
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In previous posts, Groovy2 has suggested taking Glucosamine sulphate to help alleviate joint pain and rebuild joint cartilage. Groovy also said:
*** ''Make SURE that the GS you buy Does Not say derived from HCL on the label'' ***
(Apparently it is cheaper but does not work as well.)

So, as long as I stay away from products that say ``Glucosamine HCl'' in the ingredients list and buy only ones that list ``Glucosamine sulphate'', is that all I need to know?

Any others out there impressed with any Glucosamine products?

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Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are.

Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
B R H
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I used various glucosamine supplements in the past to alleviate terrible knee pain when cycling. It got to the point where I simply could not bike unless I took glucosamine. Unfortunately it never cured anything - purely palliative. Each time I stopped taking it (at least 5 times over 3-4 years), my knee pain would get as bad or worse within a matter of weeks. Both forms had the same effect for me. I haven't taken them at all since starting MP.
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TerryK
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Sorry, don't know about the differences in glucosamine products but glucosamine seems to send my pain through the roof. I couldn't figure out why but the babs book says that it *may* treat babesia.

Terry

Posts: 6282 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
lifeline
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I also have joint pain, particularly, my ankles, and when I read what Jay had written about glucosamine sulfate, I went the next day and purchased two bottles, and I have to say, it is gradually miraculously working for me.

It is worth the trip to Whole Foods for me even though it is a distant drive.

It has only been a few months, but I'm thrilled that it is working. (Thanks Jay)!

lifeline

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Truthfinder
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Thanks for the input, folks. It does seem that most people report similar experiences - that glucosamine products only work as long as they are taken.

I get the distinct impression that joints are one of the places where the `bugs' migrate in an effort to avoid destruction from various treatments. I think maybe joints also tend to accumulate toxins.

With this in mind, it may be beneficial to use glucosamine or other supplements, at least until the body has a chance to clear some of the organisms and debris from the body as a result of treatment.

Terry, that is interesting information. And which Babs book are you talking about - Schaller's?

I believe you have stated that you made significant impact on overall pain by changing your diet. I've noticed that the type and quantity of food I eat does seem to have a direct impact on joint pain, especially my knees, and also on night sweats. I probably eat too much animal protein, and yet if I don't, then I freeze to death and can't generate my own body heat. But if I eat too much protein/fat, or eat too much processed foods, then I end up with more joint pain and night sweats.

It's difficult to concentrate on treating the whole body and all of the manifestations of TBDs when there are always a couple of symptoms that stand out and demand attention no matter what type of treatment people choose to go with. [dizzy]

[ 20. January 2008, 08:49 AM: Message edited by: Truthfinder ]

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Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are.

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luvs2ride
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I too tried the glucosamine sulphate after reading Groovy's post and I too am having less pain.

I specifically was targeting my left wrist which MRI and x-rays show the cartilage is gone. Fusion probable in my future. I would like to avoid surgical fusion and am praying for natural fusion. I am using the wrist more right now than ever before. I'm getting more flexion and I guess glucosamine gets the credit.

I was hopeful the glucosamine would actually rebuild the cartilage. Most medical info says the body can't do this because of restricted bloodflow to the joints. That would support the theory that bacteria hangs out in the joints. Nice, safe harbor.

I'm sad to hear the glucosamine only seems to work while taking it. [shake]

There are two procedures that replace/regrow cartilage I have found on the internet and am interested in.

When I tried to bring it up to the LLMD, she mentioned prolotherapy without hearing what I had found. So, I still don't know if they are worthwhile or not.

Anyone have any experience with these two procedures?

http://www.iagh.com/
http://www.nibib.nih.gov/HealthEdu/SciSnippets

Luvs

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When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace.

Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Truthfinder
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Great to hear about your improvements with glucosamine, Luvs.

I noticed yesterday that glucosamine HCl is included in my bone-building supplement. I almost with they hadn't done that. The supplement also contains D3, and now I'm not sure if my slight, general improvement is from the D3, the glucosamine HCl, or what. [Frown]

Wow, the IAGH injections sound interesting - if you could afford them. I'm still not sure what IAGH stands for - obviously GH stands for `growth hormone', but not sure about the IA part....

.... and I could not determine how many injections were required or length of treatment.

There wasn't much info on the second link.

I've read that if there is even a small amount of cartilage left in the joint, cartilage can be regenerated, at least to some extent.

I also think that it may be important to include some kind of bio-available Silica through supplementation. Silica is the fundamental building block of collagen, and Lyme attacks collagen.... Who knows what imbalances we are facing with TBDs?

Someone (a poster on another board) reported a cat that they treated homeopathically actually regrew both of its ears after a serious injury!

So, I think there are possibilities out there.

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Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are.

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TerryK
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quote:
Terry, that is interesting information. And which Babs book are you talking about - Schaller's?
Yes, "The Diagnosis and Treatment of Babesia"

He states that glucosamine is reported to undermine a common stage in both malaria and babesia. A special part of malaria and babs is the trophozoites. Glucosamine inhibits trophozoite stage in malaria so it is thought that it would do the same in babesia.

Here is the study that he quotes:
1: J Biol Chem. 2003 Jan 17;278(3):2036-42. Epub 2002 Nov 4.

Glucosamine inhibits inositol acylation of the glycosylphosphatidylinositol anchors in intraerythrocytic Plasmodium falciparum.Naik RS, Krishnegowda G, Gowda DC.

Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, Georgetown University Medical Center, Washington, DC 20007, USA.

Glycosylphosphatidylinositol (GPI) anchors are crucial for the survival of the intraerythrocytic stage Plasmodium falciparum because of their role in membrane anchoring of merozoite surface proteins involved in parasite invasion of erythrocytes.

Recently, we showed that mannosamine can prevent the growth of P. falciparum by inhibiting the GPI biosynthesis. Here, we investigated the effect of isomeric amino sugars glucosamine, galactosamine, and their N-acetyl derivatives on parasite growth and GPI biosynthesis.

Glucosamine, but not galactosamine, N-acetylglucosamine, and N-acetylgalactosamine inhibited the growth of the parasite in a dose-dependent manner.

Glucosamine specifically arrested the maturation of trophozoites, a stage at which the parasite synthesizes all of its GPI anchor pool and had no effect during the parasite growth from rings to early trophozoites and from late trophozoites to schizonts and merozoites.

An analysis of GPI intermediates formed when parasites incubated with glucosamine indicated that the sugar interferes with the inositol acylation of glucosamine-phosphatidylinositol (GlcN-PI) to form GlcN-(acyl)PI.

Consistent with the non-inhibitory effect on parasite growth, galactosamine, N-acetylglucosamine, and N-acetylgalactosamine had no significant effect on the parasite GPI biosynthesis.

The results indicate that the enzyme that transfers the fatty acyl moiety to inositol residue of GlcN-PI discriminates the configuration at C-4 of hexosamines. An analysis of GPIs formed in a cell-free system in the presence and absence of glucosamine suggests that the effect of the sugar is because of direct inhibition of the enzyme activity and not gene repression.

Because the fatty acid acylation of inositol is an obligatory step for the addition of the first mannosyl residue during the biosynthesis of GPIs, our results offer a strategy for the development of novel anti-malarial drugs. Furthermore, this is the first study to report the specific inhibition of GPI inositol acylation by glucosamine in eukaryotes.

PMID: 12419814 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

quote:
I believe you have stated that you made significant impact on overall pain by changing your diet.
Some people see improvement with a low carb diet. This yeilded a little improvement for me.

Terry

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groovy2
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Hi All --

Yep you perty much have to take GS for a
Long time - Worth every penny --

Now that I am close to the end of Lyme -Babs treatment - I have lessened the frequency
of me taking GS-- but I still take it -

For the first few weeks it is Important
to take GS every day --

If you miss a few days in a row joint pain
will start to come back --

Higher doses than 2000mg aday do seem
to help More --

I have had Zero bad side effects from GS
even at higher doses -

Most people in good health fell the
Good effects in 1 to 3 weeks --

I was in such bad shape when I started taking
GS that I felt a difference in 3 days -

But my body seems to have faster med reactions
than most other folks - Hours -

I worked for Whole Foods for about 4 years -
Part of my job was to Talk with the customers -

I have talked with several Hundred people
taking GS -- Me Included -

All but about 8 or 10 people had
Good results -

So it seems to work for most people --
I know it Helps me --

I am 100% Sure that I would be in a wheel
chair or worse -GS Helped Me that Much -

A good thing to do is write down on a list
the amount of pain from each joint --
Rate 1 threw 10 --date the List -

Then in 3 weeks or so look at the list again -
and compare how you feel -

Wow --
Never heard that about GS and Babs -

I need to read the post better and think
about it for awhile before I say anything
on that -

Would be Nice to be getting double
good effects --

Make sure the GS label Dose NOT say HCL -
its cheaper but Not as good -

-- Jay --

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Truthfinder
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Thanks, Terry. That study was too deep for me but nice to see the evidence that supports S's opinion. [Wink]

Jay, thanks for your info on glucosaime that got me started on this topic in the first place. [Smile]

--------------------
Tracy
.... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are.

Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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