posted
Might it be the inability of organs that detoxify our bodies - skin, lymph, liver, kidney and colon - to effectively eliminate the die off products that are produced ?
If those organs are stressed too much, like from lots of drugs having a difficult time being detoxed by the liver, might the herx be, at the bottom of the barrel, organs that are not working properly ?
Would really like to hear any input, comments, opinions on this from those who are "in the trenches."
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Geneal
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10375
posted
I (think) that there is a point in what you posted.
It is the high number of toxins released and then have to be removed
During a die off that may over load our systems.
That is why some of us back off during really intense herxes and
Use other methods to help detox the system.
Hugs,
Geneal
Posts: 6250 | From Louisiana | Registered: Oct 2006
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lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
I have a theory that with myself my nerves and my brain have become sensitized to the toxins.
There are people who drink every day, take drugs, eat dougnuts, yell, scream, drink coffee and they dont have half the problems we have.
I think the LYME spirochete screws up our nerves.
Its worse then alcohol or any other drug.
I think there was a theory that the governemt were working on a bacteria that would paralyze people. They were working on some sort of biological weapon. It escaped from the island off old lyme CT.
Now we are all here thanks to the government. Thanks alot George Bush.
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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lymeHerx001
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6215
posted
Well I need someone to blame. Cant start blaming myself now can I. It will just make me more depressed. Depression isint good for the immunu system.
quote:Originally posted by Lymetoo:
quote:Originally posted by lymeHerx001:
Now we are all here thanks to the government. Thanks alot George Bush.
That's very unfair to name him. This happened long before he took office. [/QB]
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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ByronSBell 2007
Unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by lymeHerx001: Well I need someone to blame. Cant start blaming myself now can I. It will just make me more depressed. Depression isint good for the immunu system.
quote:Originally posted by Lymetoo:
quote:Originally posted by lymeHerx001:
Now we are all here thanks to the government. Thanks alot George Bush.
That's very unfair to name him. This happened long before he took office.
[/QB]
The fall of man brought about this disease, so in theory it is our own fault, it's no 1 single person's fault.
As for herxing and inability to detox... You are correct Ralph. It is an overload of toxins that is too much for our bodies to handle. The reason that detoxing lyme is different from detoxing say..... unhealthy foods, alchohol, ect. Is that the herx reaction comes from our immune's reaction to the infection and it's toxins. Our immune system reacts to alchohol and substance abuse but in a different way which causes different symptoms.
This particular bacteria (lyme and it's co-infections)are known for it more than others. As an example, my mom got an infection after a surgery and when the infection was killed her BP, heart rate, inflammation, immune activity, ect shot through the roof to get the toxins out even thought the infection was dead.
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
Ralph, that's exactly it.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
lymielauren28
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13742
posted
Lymetoo I just want you to know that you crack me up!!! You're a very funny lady, and I love how your personality comes out in all of your posts!!! On that note, I'll just post one "graemlin" instead of fifty -
-------------------- "The only way out is through" Posts: 1434 | From mississippi | Registered: Nov 2007
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
Ralph wrote: might the herx be, at the bottom of the barrel, organs that are not working properly ?
Based on my own experience and research, I personally think the length and severity of herxing type symptoms is tied to a combination of factors:
genetics - how well we are able to get rid of various types of toxins
length of infection (amount of borrelia toxins already in the body)
other enviornmental exposures that further tax the body's ability to detox
Number of infections that we are dealing with -
I have been in treatment for 2 years next month and I have had a continous feeling of herxing. Technically I don't think it is actually a herx but it is a feeling of being toxic and really sick with very little let up in overall symptoms.
My Visual Contrast Sensitivity test (used to determine the amount of neurotoxins a person has in their system) is worse now than it was when I started treatment.
Other tests such as C-3d Immune Complex was very high 6 months after I started treatment indicating that cells were full of debri probably because my body was not able to keep up with the die off.
My sister had some genetic testing that showed difficulty getting rid of toxins from spider bites, lyme and mold. Means she needs a binder like cholestyramine to get rid of the toxins created by lyme die off. Without it, they will stay in the body making her feel sick.
I'm having the genetic testing for methylation mutations done (don't have the results yet).
Amazingly my sister called me the other day and said her doctor had ordered tests for just a few of the possible methylation mutations since he also felt that this might be a problem for her. She has several mutations and needs the full genetic testing to determine how to get around them.
Her doctor told her that he feels that it is likely that both of our parents had methylation mutations. If both parents have the same mutations, all children will have mutations.
Her mutations show that she can't get rid of ammonia very well or parasitic infections and she has trouble deactivating viruses. Lyme creates ammonia and if you can't get rid of it then you are bound to have a LOT of brain fog.
She also can't properly process folate so she needs another form of folic acid that does not need to be processed. Supplementing with the proper form of folic acid in itself should help with detox from what I've read.
There is much more than what I can put in this post. I'm still learning about the implications. If you are interested in these issues with methylation, do a google search for Dr. Amy Yasko.
I suspect I have similar issues as my sister. Viruses have been a major problem since I started lyme treatment and I clearly have some detox problems.
As the spirochetes die they release metals. If you are a genetic type that cannot get rid of metals very well or you have a huge load of them, you will be sicker.
Exposure to certain toxins can cause damage to our DNA which in turn can further impair our ability to detoxify depending again on your genetic situation.
If we have a lot of other infections, not only can it impair our ability to see improvement but we might be killing a lot more than lyme disease which could overwhelm our system.
My perception from my own experience and from reading here is that when we reduce one infection, sometimes another one seems to take up the slack. It's as if resources are freed up which helps a once less dominant infection proliferate.
I think herxing is a term that is used when people feel bad while in treatment but it is very hard to tell herxing from other things like parasitic infections or mold exposure problems etc..
Terry
[ 30. April 2008, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: TerryK ]
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