posted
This has happened to me. Awhile back I was on a green tea binge (for no good reason, I wasn't treating lyme, wasn't taking any abx).
I drank 4 or 5 cups one morning.
I became totally out of it..........really out of touch with reality. I went grocery shopping and just wondered around. The next day I had a sore lump under my right armpit (a swollen lymph node). It resolved in a day or two.
Posts: 554 | From Naples, Italy | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
I can't drink green tea at all. My symptoms become exacerbated. Now I know why - didn't know about the link with abx.
My children love green tea, and can drink it without a problem.
Can it have to do with the level of abx in the body?
-------------------- This is NOT medical advice - and should NOT be used to replace your MD's advice. Info is only the opinion of those who publish the site.
The shortest way to do many things is to do only one thing at a time.
cb Posts: 669 | From somewherebetweentherocks | Registered: Mar 2008
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AliG
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posted
Green tea is supposed to have neuro-protective benefits, isn't it?
Sojourner, you said you weren't taking anything.
I've been drinking a lot of green tea lately. I developed the Optic Neuritis after I started drinking a lot of it.
I also noticed Uthoff's Phenomenon(the increase of symptoms with elevation of body temperature). This was the standard method of testing for MS for 50 years.
I've heard that green tea can increase metabolism. I wonder if that can CAUSE an elevation in body temperature, thereby causing an exacerbation of symptoms in those who MAY have MS secondary to Lyme.
This is really something to think about!
Jay posted these great links on the other thread that tosho so graciously posted (Thanks tosho! ): health.msn.com Science Daily
Could increasing the effectiveness of ABX against bacteria also increase the toxicity to humans? Does anyone know this offhand?
I believe that Dr.B's Guidelines recommends 4 cups a day. (decaf)
I have often been drinking more than that. I wonder if this has anything to do with why my head is such a mess. Maybe I should back off the GT for a little while & see what happens.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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CherylSue
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I already found this out from experience. When I am in a relapse, I cannot tolerate green tea. It makes me feel worse for some reason.
When I am in remission I can drink it and it gives me some pep.
It didn't make any sense, but it is what my body told me. It's gratifying to see others having the same experience. I wasn't imagining it.
CherylSue
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
I am totally guessing here.
I've been watching the comments on green tea for a good while. My thought... comments welcome... is that is detoxing the body.
That is what they claim it does. That is what I feel is being done too when I drink it and I use more when I herx to detox.
It also can thin the blood... which can really help folks with too thick blood. Could it also be thinning the clumps of junk that is binding the keets and letting them hide out... so the antibiotics can hit them harder?
The bio-film stuff? And the lumps of fibren (the stuff that makes your blood clot)?
If that is the case... could you be killing keets big time... ans LAO detoxing too much too quickly?
GREEN TEA always makes me feel much better.. on or off antibiotics. My problem is I don't like tea.. never have. I have to make myself drink it... like a kid eating something they don't like.
posted
It might have something to do with CSF levels in our head... if lyme is causing some sort of hypertension caffeine would make it wrose... if you had some sort of hypotension caffeine would make it better.
just a guess but i've read lyme can cause either or.
i say just listen to your body and if it's not working- don't do it.
christine
Posts: 127 | From Toronto, Ontario Canada | Registered: Nov 2007
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Rianna
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posted
Green Tea is an essential part of detoxing the liver - The catechins in green tea speed up phase 2 liver detox pathways and balance phase 1 detox pathways. Catechins are also strong antioxidants.
As soon as you start working on clearing toxins from the liver you can get what seems to be a very strong Herx Like reaction, it is therefore necessary to work on the Bowel Detox/health before attempting Liver or Lymp Detox, then it is necessary to do all 3
When you start to move the stored toxins from there comfortable beds (liver/tissues etc) it can feel very uncomfortable - But again is a very necessary part of getting well and removing all the Neurotoxins associated with Lyme.
Once you have drunk your green tea in the morning (2-3 cups) then ensure you flush the toxins out with the aid of pints of water and products like Parsley & Burbur detox and keep the lymph moving either by gentle body brushing in the bath in an upward motion or a great alternative is bouncing on a trampet- When body brushing for lymph stimulation start from the feet in an upward motion to the lymph nodes behind the knees and then from the knees in an upward motion to the groin. On the arms work from wrists to the lymph nodes under the arm and the torso again upwards towards the lymp nodes in the stomach and then underarms.
Then again drink loads and loads of water to flush through.
Removing these toxins is as important as taking your antibiotics to kill the Lyme.
Beneficial effects of green tea have been known for millenia, particularly in Asian cultures. An ancient Chinese proverb says: "Better to be deprived of food for three days, than tea for one".
A cup of green tea contains up to 200 mg of catechins, whose biological activity has been mainly attributed to its antioxidant activity. Efficiency of green tea extract in oral hygiene has been known for centuries and this gave researchers a clue that antibacterial activity might be involved.
Now researchers from the National institute of Chemistry in Ljubljana, Slovenia discovered that the main ingredients of green tea are able to perform other tricks.
They found out that green tea catechins inhibit essential bacterial enzyme DNA gyrase, which is the target of several existing clinically used drugs.
By the use of NMR spectroscopy, researchers from Slovenia have now pinpointed the ATP-binding site of DNA gyrase as target of EGCG, the most abundant catechin from the green tea extract.
Up to now several compounds targeted against the ATP-binding site of bacteria gyrase have been known but couldn't be used as drugs due to their side effects on mammalian cells.
Lead researcher Roman Jerala, the head of the Laboratory of Biotechnology at NIC explains: "We can anticipate to avoid the problem of toxicity using the compounds based on the green tea catechins, which have centuries of established safety record in the human diet."
This finding may be used to develop even more potent antibacterial compounds. Results were recently published in the Journal of Medicinal Chemistry.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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AliG
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posted
Perhaps those who are feeling stronger effects are those with lower baseline GST activity?
ScienceDaily (Aug. 12, 2007) -- Concentrated chemicals derived from green tea dramatically boosted production of a group of key detoxification enzymes in people with low levels of these beneficial proteins, according to researchers at Arizona Cancer Center.
These findings, published in the August issue of Cancer Epidemiology, Biomarkers & Prevention, a journal of the American Association for Cancer Research, suggest that a green tea concentrate might help some people strengthen their metabolic defense against toxins capable of causing cancer.
In a study of 42 people, the concentrate -- composed of chemicals known as green tea catechins in amounts equal to that found in 8-16 cups of green tea -- boosted production of the enzymes, which belong to the glutathione S-transferase (GST) family, by as much as 80 percent in some participants.
GST enzymes are believed to be crucial to the body's defense against cancer-causing chemicals and other toxins, according to the study's lead investigator, H.-H. Sherry Chow, Ph.D., a research associate professor at the University of Arizona. They modify the cancer-causing molecules that would otherwise damage cellular DNA, thus rendering them inert.
"They actually convert known carcinogens to non-toxic chemicals, and studies have shown a correlation between deficient expression of these enzymes and increased risk of developing some cancers," Chow said.
"Expression of this enzyme varies dramatically in people due to genetic variation and environmental factors," Chow added. "Green tea catechins somehow increase gene expression of these enzymes, which can be an advantage to people with low levels to start with."
Green tea has long been of interest to researchers given studies that have shown populations in which it is often consumed, such as the Chinese and Japanese, generally have lower rates of cancer.
To find out if green tea can protect against cancer, the NCI has sponsored a number of rigorous scientific studies testing capsules of the extract, Polyphenon E, that have been prepared in Japan to meet exact specifications.
These pills contain epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG), a catechin known for its potent antioxidant activity, and are currently being tested against a variety of cancers in clinical trials.
This study was designed to see if green tea catechin concentrate had any effect on the levels of GST enzymes in healthy individuals research that could explain the tea's anti-cancer properties.
Healthy volunteers were asked to abstain from consuming any tea or tea-related products for four weeks. At the end of this "washout period," blood was drawn and baseline GST enzyme levels were determined for each participant.
Then, the volunteers were asked to take four Polyphenon E capsules, for a total of 800 milligrams of EGCG, each morning on an empty stomach for four weeks and to abstain from drinking tea or eating many cruciferous vegetables, which contain other beneficial chemicals.
Another blood sample was taken after four weeks, and GST activity was determined.
Researchers found that use of Polyphenon E enhanced GST activity when data from all participants were included for analysis.
But it had its most significant effect in volunteers whose baseline blood measurements showed low GST activity -- an 80 percent increase compared to baseline GST activity.
Activity did not change in volunteers with medium GST expression, or in those with the highest levels, GST seemed to decrease slightly although researchers believe that decline was due to random variation.
"This is the first clinical study to show proof that chemicals in green tea can increase detoxification enzymes in humans," Chow said. "There may be other mechanism in play by which green tea may protect against cancer development, but this is a good place to start."
The NCI supported the study and researchers from NCI also participated in conducting the study.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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AliG
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ScienceDaily (Apr. 6, 2008) -- Tea drinkers who opt for black, oolong, green or white teas may find that these beverages offer health benefits. The April issue of Mayo Clinic Health Letter covers what is -- and isn't -- known about the health effects of drinking tea.
Black, oolong, green or white teas have a common origin. Each is produced from the leaves of the Camellia sinensis bush. The leaves are loaded with flavonoids and other polyphenols that work as antioxidants, possibly lowering the risk of some diseases.
While numerous studies have found possible benefits, the actual benefits of drinking tea are not certain. Most research about tea's benefits is based on population (epidemiological) studies. Findings are limited because factors other than tea consumption could influence the results. Here's some of what's known about tea's potential benefits:
Cardiovascular
It's still uncertain if drinking tea over long periods might positively affect cholesterol levels, blood pressure and atherosclerosis. There's some early evidence that regularly drinking green tea may reduce heart attack risk or atherosclerosis. There's conflicting evidence on black tea consumption and heart attack risk reduction.
Cancer
It's still unknown whether regular black tea consumption influences cancer rates. Early lab tests with white tea indicate it may protect against colon cancer in particular. So far, well-designed studies haven't proven this.
Bone and joint health
Early laboratory research indicates green tea could be beneficial in reducing inflammation related to arthritis and slowing cartilage breakdown. Some early data indicate that regular tea consumption might improve bone mineral density in older women.
Memory
Studies are limited, but a recent one found that older adults in Japan who drank green tea daily showed less risk of memory difficulty, compared with those who didn't drink tea regularly.
While there's still much to learn about tea's health benefits, the potential benefits seem to be in the cup, not in supplements or tea extract capsules.
So far, there's no certainty that the compounds in supplements are the same ones in tea, and even less certainty that these supplements might provide the same potential health benefits as tea.
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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AliG
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posted
I'm going back to my green tea today. I didn't seem to feel any better when I stopped drinking it yesterday.
Maybe I need to alternate with lemon-water. I can try that today.
TC - try Salada decaf green tea. So far, I have found that it seems less bitter than the others I had tried.
I had been thinking that I didn't like it, but then I realized that I always enjoy it in Japanese restaurants. I tried a bunch until I found one that I could drink. I do like the Salada much better than the other ones.
I think Tazo(?) makes one with baby leaves or leaf tips (or something like that) that is also pretty smooth.
You might also try it iced, if you haven't already, maybe it would taste different cold.???
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
All these replies are great. Yes, I think it truly is good for you and for the mind. That is why I was so perplexed that it gave me such a complete spaced-out feeling. Sojourner, I can totally relate to the wandering around the grocery store story! I do the same thing, not even knowing where I am going half the time : )
Yes, I am hesitant to mix it with my abx, just so i don't completely overwhelm my system, but I am just dying for a cup, so we'll see.
My favorite green tea recipe is this:
Loose green tea (I think it's called "gunpowder green") boiled with plenty of dried mint and (sometimes) sugar. Of course it tastes better with the sugar, but I try to avoid it or use honey. When I visited my husband's family in Tunisia, they make it the same way, but with LOTS of sugar, and float pignoli on the top. So delicious. I was completely spaced out the whole trip, just because of the tea, but I couldn't say no!
Posts: 636 | From Saratoga County, NY | Registered: Apr 2008
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AliG
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posted
I'm wondering if the Gunpowder Green is decaf.
When you boil the tea, how long would you boil it? I usually just add a bag to boiled water.
I think the package said to steep for three minutes, but I was leaving the bag in. I am wondering if doing that might have been causing the tea I've been drinking to have a higher level of caffeine.
Today I've been taking the bag out to see if it makes any difference. I would think that, if the green tea is detoxing, it would also have to detox the caffeine. Even though it is "decaffeinated" I believe there is still SOME caffeine, albeit a lot less.
I also think that the stated caffeine content would be based on preparing as recommended in the directions.
Anyone else have any thoughts on rogue caffeine as a possible factor?
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
I haven't found the gunpowder, or any green tea for that matter, decaf in the loose form. If anyone finds it, please let me know, for the bags don't seem to have the same flavor.
Actually, I misspoke before. I boil the water, then add to a pot of tea and dried mint to steep. That way works the best. When I do boil the tea instead, I find it tastes bitter, especially when I leave it to boil too long. I think it does increase the caffeine if left longer.
Posts: 636 | From Saratoga County, NY | Registered: Apr 2008
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Keebler
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Member # 12673
posted
-
Some teas and coffee undergo a chemcial process for decaf. Be sure to inquire about the process.
Rianna - thanks for that info. on the detox phases in regard to Green Tea. I've just never gotten into the tea, but will now. Don't know what I've been waiting for.
I just found a fabulous "Chai Green" by Yogi Tea. - just 35 mg. caffeine per cup ( 8oz. of coffee has 90 mg. caffeine) - www.yogitea.com.
BTW, a little caffeine can help the gallbladder.
Brewing up a cup with several bags and later adding cold water is great for iced tea.
Lots of great info here, I have been a tea drinker for a long time, but recently switched to green tea after the latest reports of it helping the antibiotics to work better.
Republic of Tea has some really good green teas that don't have that grassy taste to them, and some of their fruity green teas make excellent iced tea (which is how I usually drink mine). They also use a natural process to decaffeinate their tea, instead of the chemical process that some brands use, so I feel more comfortable with their decaf than other brands. They have a ginger peach that is good also, especially if you are experiencing some nausea - ginger is good for that, and the wild berry plum decaf is really yummy, I buy that one online though since my local store doesn't carry it. -karen
Posts: 205 | From northern california | Registered: Apr 2008
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Hi cs! Glad to see you here. I think I'll give my abx a week to kick in, then try some nice iced green tea. Sounds so delicious.
Posts: 636 | From Saratoga County, NY | Registered: Apr 2008
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
AliG said..
"TC - try Salada decaf green tea. So far, I have found that it seems less bitter than the others I had tried."
THANK YOU! I will look for it! I, too, like the tea served in Chinese places (but they don't offer other stuff usually ... so maybe that is why I drink it?
Rarely go out anymore.. but that does make sense that there could be better ones.
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