Health
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6034
posted
I started to take Glucosamine capsules a couple years ago, and was so sick from it, I thought it was a healing crisis tso kept at it, but I just felt terrible, so I stopped it. My Mother has used it for years, with excellent results, for her arthritis, she does not have lyme.
I read that Glucosamine can feed the Lyme, and here is the studies done. Has anyone been told that this can happen by their LLMD? Here is the web page and a paragraph I took out of it...
"Energy metabolism The limited metabolic capacity of B. burgdorferi is similar to that found in M. genitalium (Fig. 3, Table 2 (PDF File: 32k)). Genes encoding all of the enzymes of the glycolytic pathway were identified. Analysis of the metabolic pathway suggests that B. burgdorferi uses glucose as a primary energy source, although other carbohydrates, including glycerol, glucosamine, fructose and maltose, may be used in glycolysis. Pyruvate produced by glycolysis is converted to lactate, consistent with the microaerophilic nature of B. burgdorferi. Generation of reducing power occurs through the oxidative branch of the pentose pathway. None of the genes encoding proteins of the tricarboxylic acid cycle or oxidative phosphorylation were identified. The similarity in metabolic strategies of two distantly related, obligate parasites, M. genitalium and B. burgdorferi, suggests convergent evolutionary gene loss from more metabolically competent, distant progenitors."
[ 11. July 2007, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: Health ]
Posts: 1250 | From Canada | Registered: Aug 2004
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CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
It DOES feed Lyme but it also tends to help a lot of people so I wonder whether it just feeds Lyme so Lyme doesn't leach it from the body!!! Because it does seem to help a lot of people as a supplement!!!
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Since Bb can only live in a body from which it can derive the nutrients it needs, it is taking any number of things from us, including vitamins. This is why some people think taking vitamins feeds lyme also.
The trouble is that when you eliminate everything Bb needs, you also eliminate things humans need for proper functioning. And that lack will produce symptoms.
So, my take on it is to use things that improve my condition and functioning and not worry about Bb.
Posts: 8430 | From Not available | Registered: Oct 2000
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CaliforniaLyme
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Lectin-binding characteristics of a lyme borreliosis spirochete Borrelia burgdorferi sensu stricto.
Vancova M, Nebesarova J, Grubhoffer L.
Faculty of Biological Sciences, University of South Bohemia, Ceske Budejovice, Czechia.
Borrelial glycoconjugates were localized by labeled lectins on ultrathin cryosections and on surfaces of intact negatively stained bacteria.
Protein-saccharide complexes in these glycoconjugates were partially characterized by means of enzyme deglycosylation and mild alkali pretreatment of cryosections.
The results of labeling were examined by transmission electron microscopy. Statistically evaluated results (relative labeling index, chi2 test) of gold labeling indicated that surfaces of Borrelia burgdorferi strain B31 and external (outer) membrane vesicles (MVs) were covered with glycoconjugates containing O-glycosidically linked
N-acetyl-D-galactosamine (GalNAc) and N-glycosidically linked N-acetyl-D-glucosamine (GlcNAc).
The presence of N-linked GalNAc, sialic acid, mannose and fucose on the surfaces of outer membranes and MVs was probably due to an adherence of BSK-H medium components, especially rabbit serum, to Borrelia surfaces.
PMID: 16295662
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
1: Appl Environ Microbiol. 2007 Feb;73(4):1180-
Identification of specific chemoattractants and genetic complementation of a Borrelia burgdorferi chemotaxis mutant: flow cytometry-based capillary tube chemotaxis assay.
Bakker RG, Li C, Miller MR, Cunningham C, Charon NW. Department of Microbiology, Immunology and Cell Biology, West Virginia University, Morgantown, WV 26506-9177, USA.
Measuring the chemotactic response of Borrelia burgdorferi, the bacterial species that causes Lyme disease, is relatively more difficult than measuring that of other bacteria.
Because these spirochetes have long generation times, enumerating cells that swim up a capillary tube containing an attractant by using colony counts is impractical. Furthermore, direct counts with a Petroff-Hausser chamber is problematic, as this method has a low throughput and necessitates a high cell density; the latter can lead to misinterpretation of results when assaying for specific attractants. Only rabbit serum and tick saliva have been reported to be chemoattractants for B. burgdorferi.
These complex biological mixtures are limited in their utility for studying chemotaxis on a molecular level.
Here we present a modified capillary tube chemotaxis assay for B. burgdorferi that enumerates cells by flow cytometry.
Initial studies identified N-acetylglucosamine as a chemoattractant. The assay was then optimized with respect to cell concentration, incubation time, motility buffer composition, and growth phase. Besides N-acetylglucosamine, glucosamine, glucosamine dimers (chitosan), glutamate, and glucose
also elicited significant chemoattractant responses, although the response obtained with glucose was weak and variable. Serine and glycine were nonchemotactic. To further validate and to exploit the use of this assay, a previously described nonchemotactic cheA2 mutant was shown to be nonchemotactic by this assay; it also regained the wild-type phenotype when complemented in trans.
This is the first report that identifies specific chemical attractants for B. burgdorferi and the use of flow cytometry for spirochete enumeration. The method should also be useful for assaying chemotaxis for other slow-growing prokaryotic species and in specific environments in nature.
PMID: 17172459
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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CaliforniaLyme
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 7136
posted
Yes!!! Occurs in human body!!!! QUOTE:Glucosamine is a substance that occurs naturally in the human body. It provides strength, flexibility, and elasticity to cartilage and connective tissue by stimulating the production of glycosaminoglycans, molecules that hold joint tissue together. Glucosamine also decreases inflammation that can lead to the joint destruction of arthritis.END QUOTE_
And Bb uses it- so if we give Bb some EXTRA maybe it won't use ours*)!*)!)! My theory as to why it works as a supplement*)*!)!)!!!!!!!! Feeding Bb directly*)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Otherwise it takes what we need from our bodies.
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
i don't know, it sounds like one vicious cycle to me = a+b=ab.
your body needs it, lyme eats it, deleting it, so you supplement it to replace what lyme eats, so and so and so....
i'll just take my chances and continue with supplements.
tests all come back normal, so if it doesn't show deficiency, then everything is just ok....
strange........
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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Boomerang
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7979
posted
Good grief......what to do, what to do. I agree with randibear, it's all a vicious cycle. Sigh.
Posts: 1366 | From Southeast | Registered: Sep 2005
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groovy2
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6304
posted
Hi All
I have taken Glucosamine Sulfate for over 10 years- Daily --
I am 100% Sure that if I did not take GS may joints would be toast --
Now in Good shape -- Jay --
Posts: 2999 | From Austin tx USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
From how I see it... pretty much most compounds that are good for us, are good and/or necessary for Lyme. Think about it... there are only so many amino acids for forms of life to utilize, as well as certain molecular structures that just "work".
I don't think we should try to avoid feeding the lyme so much, because we're also starving ourselves. The key is to find compounds (like antibiotics) that overwhelmingly attack the lyme, without hurting us (or nearly as much). This can come in many forms, from boosting our immune system, to antagonists (Abx, antiparasite/protozoans) perhaps even energetic means (ie targeted frequencies, though I am a skeptic as far as rife and whatnot is concerned. In theory however, they only hurt the pathogens, not the body itself).
Trying to starve the lyme out by reducing our intake of most chemical compounds, vitamins, or minerals is probably a losing battle.
Remember, the converse is also true: I have a fool proof cure for Lyme: Radioactive Cesium! Not a single Bb will remain. There may be unpleasant side effects though. Like death. Just because the patient didn't survive, doesn't mean the operation wasn't a success Posts: 690 | From East coast, USA | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Just because the patient didn't survive, doesn't mean the operation wasn't a success
Amazing tiny little evil microbes that have managed to modify their host to the point of self-destruction or maybe collateral damage at the hands of others.
-------------------- When I lost my grip on Faith in the maze of illness, Hope gently clasped my hand and led on.
RuthRuth Posts: 478 | From California | Registered: Jan 2007
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tailz
Unregistered
posted
I think I tried one of these for arthritis, and I didn't feel well at all. I think my spirochetes take my nutrients before I do.
But I would need to check, as I am not positive it was glucosamine.
There were two popular arthritis sups, but I chose the cheaper one of the two. Was it glucosamine?
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jamescase20
Unregistered
posted
Glucosamine KILLS babs, hello? Did high doses of it, I took 20 caps each of HCI, and Sulfate, and guess what happened? I have terrible heavy leg pain, just like I got with malarone. I am am not wacked, read Dr S book babsia. I dont have any studies I could find on lyme and gluco, but, gee, your body makes it and needs it so, good luck ridding your body of glucosamine, and be ready to be crippled.
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posted
He doesn't say that it will kill Babs; He says that there is some speculation. I don't believe that it will. It most likely is an unsubstantiated rumor that was started by muscle testing.
As for your heavy legs being a herx....doubtfull. It's most likely a reaction from feeding the Bartonella what they love the most....the amino acid glutamine. Did you know that Glucosamine is glutamine + a sugar molecule? You can find the article in the Bartonella thread on the 2nd or 3rd page that discusses how Bart derives it's nutrients from amino acids, and glutamine is one of its favorites.
-------------------- You're only a failure when you stop trying. Posts: 945 | From U.S | Registered: Oct 2004
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