GiGi is in Germany now for a few weeks exploring this.
She will be posting back at this tread - unless she makes a new one at that time.
Mati is also exploring this in a different place. You can follow her here as well or at the thread above . . . or keep your eyes open for any new posts by Mati.
The harder you work the luckier you get! Posts: 965 | From Nebraska Cornhuskers fan in Massachusetts | Registered: Dec 2007
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oxygenbabe
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Can anyone find out if the LED's in Bionic are "binned"? Is that why they're expensive like the Nasa device? This is really important--Lymie in MD can you find out? I don't have the energy right now, I have a knee problem that is totally preoccupying me.
The second thing is--how did they arrive at the particular frequencies they chose? Are these considered general healing frequencies, or did they arrive at them after long experimentation? Why did they not choose Nogier frequencies and do they know about those? There are six frequencies.
Somebody has to make a call to the manufacturer of the company and I'm sure they speak English.
I really need to know this as I've heard back from Soto instruments adn will talk to them tomrorow. They do not bin their LED's so there is a range in each one, but the strength is comparable inf act Sota is a bit stronger. Sota has 80 LED's.
If we're going to think about using Sota--and if it doesn't work, then find a way to afford Bionic, and that is, IF Gigi reports from users, the doctors and hubby that there is improvement, then...we really need to understand this.
NOgier frequencies are very powerful. I know as the Chee Energy device uses them.
I'm hoping to get a Sota device for my knee anyway.
Can someone else pursue the answers above? I'm good at analyzing data but I don't have any room/time to do that with other problems (knee).
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lymie_in_md
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Nogier had his reasons based on research to choose certain frequencies. The frequencies chosen for the bionic 880 came from Fritz Popp's work, probably more advanced then Nogier's. Just a guess!
I'll email the manufacturer today with the question about LEDs. I'll let you know when I have a response.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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I decided to go to see Dr Woitzel instead due to my mercury problem and have an appointment on August 8th. I stay in the area for 3 weeks, for 2 treatments a week. I can't wait!
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oxygenbabe
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Bob, thanks for helping out. I spoke with Sota today, and they figure that a lot of research must have been done on 880 to even support the claims they're making. I ordered one oftheir devices as I may have torn my meniscus, have to get an MRI, hurts like heck. It takes a while to get it from Canada and btw shipping ain't cheap so....whatever online source offered free shipping that Sparkle found, is a good deal.
Mati--let us know what happens!
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lymie_in_md
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sparkle7
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I don't know... if you compare the mW of the LightWorks & the Lumen Photon 90 they are very similar.
Is it really worth the extra $600?
I don't see that the company that makes Bionic 880 is actually saying that it cures people. Testimonials are very different than claiming that it cures diseases.
It's also different in Europe about this kind of stuff than in the US. These things have to be approved by the FDA if they are to be used by professionals in regards to "curing" illnesses in the US...
There's alot of politics involved in this stuff. Big Pharma is king.
Using an LED array at home is a different matter.
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sparkle7
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Bob- re: The frequencies chosen for the bionic 880 came from Fritz Popp's work, probably more advanced then Nogier's. Just a guess!
I wouldn't necessarily assume this... Nogier is very respected. He came up with the whole concept of ear acupuncture. The Chinese weren't doing it prior to the 1970's.
He went to China & verified that the acupuncture points on the ear did actually correspond with meridians throughout the body.
He did studies & came up with the Nogier frequencies. He was a pretty bright guy... not that Fritz Popp isn't (another pun...).
I think Fritz Popp is more a physicist than a medical man. I might be wrong, though.
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lymie_in_md
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I know Dr. Nogier is very respected. Dr Popp is a biophysicist not just physics. His specialty is the research of biophotons and how they affect the body. He's one of the top researchers in the world on this. If he determined frequencies they may just be more advanced then anyone else.
Dr. Popp and Dr. Zhang a top researcher from china teamed up to put a paper on proving how meridians work. There proof is scientific and they used biophotons as a tool in this proof. Dr. Popp has been researching biophotons from nature in many species but especially the human anatomy. He's been researching all biophotons since the latter 70's.
The study of biophotons are also being done in Russia and in the United States specifically NASA and some universities. I still believe the ultimate authority is still in Germany.
By the way, I did email the manufacturer of the 880 today. We'll see if any info is forthcoming.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
As I posted on the other thread about this topic going at the same time, I think these two threads should be combined.
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NanaDubo
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I am going to Germany! I spoke with Dr. W's office this morning and have an appointment in early September.
I've been thinking about it for weeks and just decided waiting was stupid.
They are able to see me sooner than that but I am not able to get away before Sept.
Hopefully by then we will have heard from GiGi and others and if it's not all we hope it's cracked up to be, I can cancel.
His consultation and treatments are so reasonable, I figure I will have already spent that much $$ on the things I am doing now and can just taper off on them.
I will have to be there 3 weeks but the person I spoke to said "the disease will be gone." ?!?!?! Hope she's right.
A kind and generous family member is helping me be able to do this and I am very grateful.
So pleased to hear you got it sorted out. I am trying to find accomodation in the area, and possibly fly from Berlin. Are you flying to Stuttgart?
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NanaDubo
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Hi mati - just trying to research all of that right now. The closest airport etc.
There was a link for apartments that GiGi posted awhile back that are about 12 miles from his office. I'm looking into that too.
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sparkle7
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Sounds great! Good luck!
I feel kind of silly squirming around looking for alternatives to the real thing... but that's all I can afford right now.
If I could, I'd go to get the "official" treatment.
I stayed up very late last night researching & I have found some other doctors & scientists who are working with light in various ways for healing.
There's a clinic in Canada that specializes in light medicine for pain. I'll post the info when I get it more organized in my mind. I'm having a migraine right now.
There are other doctor/scientists who are working with light for healing other than Fritz Popp.
Germany seems to be a logical place to go for treatment for Lyme since they have had borrellia there for longer then we have had Lyme here. I think they also have Bb there now, too, & they are starting to get tick borne encephalitis, as well...
I really hope this treatment works! The world really needs it.
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NanaDubo
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Sparkle - don't feel silly looking for alternatives. I've looked at them all as well and you provide us with great information.
The ONLY reason I am able to go to Germany (I can't even work) is because I have an amazing 20 year old son who is truly one of the finest human beings I know.
He really wants his Mom back 100% and has made it possible for me to go.
I swore I would never take money from my kids but he wants he really wants this for me so.....
The world could use more people like him and I am blessed to have him for a son.
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oxygenbabe
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Sparkle, you feel silly for trying to do something affordable? I wouldn't feel silly
However, we just have to wait and see whether this approach is truly valid. Be open but skeptical.
Second, we need to know why Bionic 880 chose those frequencies.
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lymie_in_md
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Sparkle, I have great admiration and respect for all the information you've supplied. Your doing the best you can with what you have. You are certainly a trailblazer and there is nothing to feel bad about. And purchasing an LED now can only be a positive to your current treatment. I can't see how you could lose by trying it.
The road least traveled has new twist and turns yet. GiGi will have greater insight as what to do next based on her experience. I'm sure it will all blend.
I sent a message to the vendor about our questions. I just haven't had an answer yet.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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sparkle7
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Thanks guys. I'm having an ill day today... Just feeling really yucky. I hate being non-functional.
You may want to check into these links -
---
Millennium Health Institute Inc. in Toronto, Canada
They have their own proprietary formulas for biophotonic healing
They have info on the website about the Bionic 880 & Lyme. Someone may want to call to see if they do the treatments there. I'm not sure if it's cheaper than going to Germany.
Good for you Nana. I'm glad to hear there's hope for the next generation!
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sparkle7
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Called Millennium Health Institute Inc. in Toronto, Canada & they said that they don't treat Lyme - unless it's the pain associated with Lyme.
I explained the situation to the secretary & she said someone "may" get back with me. I'll be holding my breath...
If someone gets a chance, they may want to try calling the place in Spain. I would but it's too late here - they are about 6 hours ahead from the NYC time zone.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
I doubt it's cheaper ... my daughter is spending next semester in Spain (so I'd prefer to go there ), and her tickets were about $1300 round trip. I'd really rather go to Spain ... I even speak Spanish! But I think in the end, if you're going to Europe anyway, you may as well go to the ones who have developed the Lyme treatment.
I keep hoping you'll come up with something that works Sparkle.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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Keebler
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posted
-
So what corporation will send a private jet for us ?
It'd be so much kinder to frazzled brains and weary bodies - maybe they have to travel anyway and would love to offer an empty seat.
sparkle7
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Does anyone know who actually came up with this therapy? Was it actually Dr. Woitzel (spelling?), or does it have to do with the Bionic 880 company?
If it's the company's protocol - I think anyone would be able to learn it who has the device. There are practicioners all over Europe.
GiGi might have felt more comfortable going to Germany since she's from there. It does make sense to go to Dr. W if he has alot of experience but it may not be necessary - there are people with the device in England, too, & they speak English. It's not a big deal since most people in Europe also speak English.
I might be able to order the LightWorks tomorrow!!! I think I got the money together. Keep your fingers crossed. I still have to get the nosodes, though. I'll probably just use it without the nosodes in the beginning.
You may want to check out some info by the Canadian Health place (as above) in Toronto. The doctors there have patented a device & the frequencies to treat a bunch of ailments. (It's called the Salansky protocol or something.)
So - I'm not sure if having the correct, exact frequency & a special light (LED) or wavelength is an important part of the treatment for each particular illness.
I don't know if it's like Rife in that respect. I guess we'll see. This may just be a way people can patent their "brand" of light modulation & make money.
The guy at Elixa just thinks it's having the correct wavelength & that any basic array will work.
Please keep posting if you find anything out!
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Hi, Another pioneer checking in. My husband has an appointment with Dr. W on July 3rd. We are "cautiously optimistic" about the treatment and are treating the trip as an adventure!
I'm excited but trying not to get my hopes up too much, like many of you, he has been sick a long time. Will post when we return.
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sparkle7
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Good luck, Clancy! I think everyone here is rooting for a favorable outcome for you & your husband.
Keep us posted.
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sparkle7
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Maybe this should be a side note or another thread but it's some info about a patent that has been applied for regarding light therapy by the Dr. Salanskys (it's a couple - the Salansky protocol) of the clinic in Toronto, Canada.
Phototherapy (PT) relates to the use of electromagnetic radiation to stimulate biological phenomena that promotes healing or aesthetic changes in tissue. In the early 1960s, European scientists began studies on the use of low energy light beams of specific wavelengths and frequencies to treat damaged cell tissue by altering cellular functions and enhancing healing non-destructively.
Low level laser therapy (LLLT) followed by light emitting diode (LED) therapy were developed and applied to the treatment of dermatological, musculoskeletal, soft tissue and neurological conditions.
It is well documented now that a wide range of disorders of biological tissue or their symptoms have been treated by PT [1-26], including but not limited to acute and chronic musculoskeletal conditions such as arthritis, degenerative disc and joint diseases, bone spurs, back and joint pain, tendonitis, muscle pain and stiffness and myofascial pain.
PT has also been used to treat such conditions as post surgical complications such as swelling, inflammation, scarring and stiffness; acute trauma and chronic post-traumatic conditions in the soft tissues and bones including sprains, strains, wounds, whiplash; repetitive strain injuries such as carpal tunnel syndrome, tennis and golfer's elbow; neurological and neuromuscular conditions, dermatological conditions such as burns, acne, herpes simplex, psoriasis, skin cancer and ulcers including infected or non-infected chronic ulcers of different etiology such as venous ulcers, diabetic ulcers, decubitus ulcers, pressure sores, burns and post-traumatic ulcers, as well as seasonal depression.
PT has also been reported to reduce wrinkles, and induce relaxation.
In a study funded by a NASA Small Business Innovation Research contract, Whelan and his team [1] studied the influence of PT treatment using LEDs on cells grown in culture, on ischemic and diabetic wounds in rat models, and on acute and chronic wounds in humans.
Their studies utilized a variety of LED wavelengths, power, and energy density to identify conditions for biostimulation of different tissues.
They found that PT using LEDs produced in vitro increases of cell growth of 140-200% in mouse-derived fibroblasts, rat-derived osteoblasts, and rat-derived skeletal muscle cells, and increases in growth of 155-171% of normal human epithelial cells.
PT using LEDs produced improvement of greater than 40% in musculoskeletal training injuries in Navy SEAL team members, and decreased wound healing time in crew members aboard a U.S. Naval submarine.
Lacerations doubled their healing rate when exposed to the LED light. Some injuries treated with the LEDs healed in just seven days, compared to unexposed injuries that took two weeks.
Whelan and colleagues also found that lights help wounds that are normally very difficult to heal such as diabetic skin ulcers, serious burns and the severe oral sores caused by chemotherapy and radiation [1].
Their investigations take place in laboratory and human trials, approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.
Recent in vivo and clinical studies suggest that lasers can induce phenomena in injured tissues which promote acceleration of recovery after acute trauma [19-21].
Faster edema reduction and lymph flow enhancement were observed in laser-treated animals after surgery in mice [20] and rat arthritis [21].
Faster edema resolution and regeneration at cut blood and lymph vessels were observed in the laser treated group in the study performed on 600 mice [20].
It was also found that laser light induced local microcirculation improvement resulting in relief of local spasm of arteriolar and venular vessels, intensification of blood flow in nutritional capillaries, anastomosis opening and activation of neoangiogenesis [17].
One of the best documented PT treatments that has been in routine use in hospitals for many years, is the treatment of hyperbilirubinemia, a condition where there is an elevated level of bilirubin in an infant's blood.
Normally bilirubin is conjugated within the liver and excreted.
However, during the initial neonatal period the infant's liver may be too immature to conjugate bilirubin.
Phototherapy is the treatment of choice for neonatal hyperbilirubinemia and has been used for many years with no known negative side effects.
Bilirubin has absorption bands in the visible wavelengths region of the spectrum between 400 and 500 nm with a maximum absorption approximately in the 450-460 nm region.
There is a clear dose-response relationship as demonstrated by a decrease in the bilirubin level proportional to the level of exposure to light.
Ultraviolet (UV) radiation has been used to treat dermatological diseases such as psoriasis since the early 20th century.
However, UV radiation produces ionization and therefore has the potential to damage biomolecules.
As a result, the dosage or exposure must be controlled carefully to avoid damage to biological tissue.
There are also reports on successful treatment of aesthetic problems, using PT.
Particularly, decreasing of cellulites and wrinkles when treated with radiation of selected wavelength in the visible and NIR part of the spectrum has been reported.
Quite recently, the combined approach of using light as a very specific mechanism to trigger the effects of specialized pharmaceuticals has been developed.
This approach, called photodynamic therapy (PDT) uses certain drugs, which for example are preferably adsorbed at tumors which, when irradiated with visible light, initiate cytotoxic photochemical reactions that produce local tumor necrosis.
Another recent application of PDT is the use of photosensitizer drugs that exert an anti-microbial effect only when irradiated with light of a certain wavelength.
Activated with light, the drug produces potent anti-microbial molecules that kill neighboring micro-organisms, mainly by physically damaging their cytoplasmic membranes [26].
Most photosensitive substances used in photodynamic therapy are activated at wavelengths between 300 nm and 800 nm.
Light emitting diodes are typically used to treat surface conditions while a laser coupled to a fiber optic catheter is often used to treat sub-surface regions.
Subcutaneous tissue may also be treated using an external light source that emits light at a wavelength that penetrates the cutaneous layer overlying the tissue to be treated.
Currently, therapeutic benefits have been reported for wavelengths ranging from UV radiation to the near-infrared (N-IR) region of the spectrum [1-26].
Current research suggests that when phototherapy is used within this wide range of wavelengths for treatment of a particular medical condition, light may interact with tissue at the molecular, cellular, and organism levels.
At a molecular level, light therapy methods are based on photochemical conversion of non-specialized photoacceptor molecules (i.e. molecules that can adsorb light at certain wavelengths but are not incorporated into the light reception organs).
These non-specialized photoacceptors can be cell native components or can be introduced artificially, as in a case of photodynamic therapy.
In the case of adsorption of light of a specific wavelength by a native photoacceptor with corresponding excitation of their electronic states, the cellular metabolism can be altered [2,3].
More specifically, Karu [2,3, 15] suggested that irradiation of isolated mitochondria induces changes in cellular homeostasis, which entail a cascade of reactions, and proposed a number of the components of the respiratory chain that can trigger the reactions.
Currently it is speculated, that the biological effects of low level visible light is through photochemistry (probably electronic excitations of enzymes [2,3,15]), and the biological effect of infrared radiation is due to photophysical effects on the cell membrane level, mainly through molecular rotation and vibrations modifying the ion channels in membranes [13] that influence the total cascade of molecular events and leads to biostimulation.
In order to identify a photoacceptor molecule, experiments on cell cultures were performed to obtained action spectra, which is a plot of the relative efficiencies of different wavelengths of light in causing a biological response (such as proliferation, migration, collagen synthesis, autocrine production of growth factors etc.) [ 1,2,3].
It is known [2] that within certain limits an action spectrum follows the absorption spectrum of the photoacceptor molecule.
By comparison the obtained absorption spectrum of cells with spectral data for particular metal-ligand complexes corresponding to different candidate photoacceptors, the enzymes, participating in the biological response, can be identified.
As no action spectra for clinical effects have yet been produced, action spectra for cellular effects are currently used to recommend optimal light wavelengths for clinical applications.
Experiments on different cell cultures (microbe and mammalian) have revealed the ranges of wavelengths (360-440 nm, 630-680 nm, 740-760 nm, 810-840 nm) where known photoinduced phenomena are observed [2,3].
Ideally, in clinical applications photons of a particular wavelength excite photoacceptor molecules providing the desired biological response.
The light should generally be capable of reaching not only superficial tissue but also deeper layers.
In order to arrive at a particular treatment protocol, in addition to the action spectra of various photobiological effects and absorption spectra of photoacceptor molecules responsible for these photobiological effects, the following data can also be taken into account:
(1) absorption spectra of the surrounding tissue light adsorbing molecules, and
(2) wavelength penetration depth data.
The light absorbed by biological tissue depends on the wavelength of the light and the properties of the irradiated tissue.
Factors such as reflectivity, absorption coefficient, and scattering coefficient determine the dose versus depth distribution of the incident light. In biological tissue, hemoglobin is a strong absorber of light in the visible region of the spectrum while water has several strong absorption bands in the IR region.
Thus the absorption bands of these two molecules should be considered in selecting a wavelength that will pass substantially unattenuated through tissue to deliver the desired radiation to the area to be treated.
The dose will also vary as a function of depth due to absorption.
(this part is important) -----> ----->
In general, each condition being treated by phototherapy may utilize unique settings of treatment parameters such as wavelength, monochromaticity, bandwidth, pulse frequency, pulse duration, power intensity, dose, and three-dimensional light distribution in the tissue.
An extensive summary of suggested protocols developed for treatment of a wide range of disorders is provided in the patent of Salansky and Filonenko [7].
For different applications, different wavelengths might be optimal. Regarding the DNA and RNA synthesis in cell-level experiments, Tiina Karu [2,3] suggested that laser emission at 820-830 nm, 760 nm and 680 nm would be sufficient for low power light therapy.
----->
According to the patent by Salansky and Filonenko [7] clinical studies reveal that wavelengths in the range from 400 to 10,000 nm may be used for PT, preferably from 500 to 2,000 nm.
There appears to be some optimal wavelength range to induce a particular photoeffect for certain healing phenomenon.
For example, according to [7], light having a wavelength from 600 to 700 nm, preferably from 630-680 nm, may be used for wound and ulcer healing.
For chronic soft tissue pathology, monochromatic light in the near infrared wavelength range (800-1,100) is more suitable [7].
In general, different researchers in the area of phototherapy have used light at the following wavelengths (nm) for phototherapy:
A phototherapeutic dose is determined by a light intensity (power density) and an exposure time.
For stimulating healing of chronic ulcers or wounds, a power density has been reported in the range from 0.2 to 10 mW/cm2.
For ulcers or wounds in the acute inflammatory stage the range was from 10 to 30 mW/cm2 and for infected wounds the range was from 50 to 80 mW/cm2 [7].
Reported doses for photobiomodulation are in the range of from 0.1 to 20 J/cm2 [7].
For stimulating healing of chronic ulcers or wounds doses may preferably be in the range of from 0.05 to 0.2 J/cm2, for ulcers or wounds in the acute inflammatory stage a preferred range is from 2 to 5 J/cm2 and for infected wounds a preferred range is from 3.0 to 7.0 J/cm2.
----->
It has been also reported that the interaction between living cells and pulsed electromagnetic waves depends on the wavelength as well as pulse frequency and duration.
Pulse repetition rates within the range 1,000-10,000 Hz with different pulse durations (milliseconds to microseconds) can be used to change average power [7].
Low range frequencies of 0 to 200 Hz may stimulate the release of key neurotransmitters and/or neurohormones [7].
It has been theorized that these frequencies may correspond to some basic electromagnetic oscillation frequencies in the peripheral and central nervous system.
Once released these neurotransmitters and/or neurohormones can modulate inflammation, pain or other body responses.
----->
Optical protocols have been developed based on the parameters described above.
Protocols for a wide variety of disorders have been developed for laser diodes, superluminescent diodes, and LED single probes or clusters, for example by Salansky [7].
They have been used in the `Pain & Injury Rehabilitation Centers`, Toronto, Canada.
For example, the specificity of protocols for musculoskeletal conditions depends on (i) the stage of inflammatory process (acute, subacute inflammation, chronic inflammation with or without flare-up of preexisting pathological condition); (ii) localization of soft tissue affected areas, muscle spasm, tender and trigger points.
For skin conditions, choice of a protocol can depend on the stage of inflammation (acute or chronic inflammation, presence or absence of bacteria contamination).
Protocols developed by Salansky for laser diodes usually take about two to six minutes; it rarely exceeds ten minutes.
Whelan [1] used LED therapy at 680, 730, and 880 nm wavelengths simultaneously for about 30 minutes per treatment in human trials.
In general, the duration of treatment depends on the power of a light source, with longer times being used with sources of lower power density.
-----> ----->
The areas of phototherapy and photodynamic therapy are undergoing rapid development.
Yet, a detailed understanding of the mechanism that produces the beneficial effect has not been achieved in many treatments.
There are several sources of radiation currently used for phototherapy and aesthetic applications.
The He--Ne laser (λ=632.8 nm) was the first laser to be used in clinical and research applications from the sixties to mid-eighties, when semiconductor lasers and light emitting diodes became available [3].
"Cold" lasers produce a lower average power of 100 milliwatts or less.
Lasers are widely used in phototherapy because they produce narrow-band monochromatic, coherent, polarized light with a wide range of powers and intensities.
High-power is used in surgery and mid-power is used in dermatology to treat, for example, telangiectasia, port-wine stains.
Lasers must be used cautiously to avoid or achieve limited heating of tissues except when higher powers are desired for use in surgery, dermatology, etc.
Coherence and polarization are the two main features that distinguish light from lasers from other sources of monochromatic light.
But, laser beams quickly lose coherence and polarization due to scattering upon entering tissue.
So, many of the reputed advantages due to these properties of laser beams may be lost.
A common laser beam source in current PT applications is the semiconductor laser diodes (LD), where light emission arises from recombination of electron and holes injected into a lasing cavity.
Recently, vertical cavity surface emitting lasers had been also suggested for use in PT devices [27].
Although phototherapy began with the use of low level lasers, several other light sources have been used since that time, that are briefly outlined below.
----->
Light emitting diodes are semiconductor devices in which a point source of light is produced when current carriers combine at a pn junction.
The emission is spontaneous and the output power is typically lower than that from diode lasers, reflecting the use of lower operating currents.
Generally LEDs are less expensive than diode lasers and can operate at shorter wavelength without the rapid degradation that occurs with visible-wavelength laser diodes.
Light from an LED is an incoherent (spontaneous) emission, as distinct from the coherent (stimulated) emission produced by lasers.
LEDs have undergone a major growth spurt in recent years.
The first LED units available for purchase for use in PT in the equine industry [3] used 8mW peak power per diode.
At this writing, devices are commercially available which use a cluster of LEDs with 150 mW peak power per diode.
Another PT light source, superluminous diodes are a compromise between a laser and a LED, which is operated at high drive currents characteristic of diode lasers, but lack the cavity feedback mechanisms that produce stimulated emission.
It is used when high-power output is desired, but coherent emission is not needed.
Both LEDs and LDs are three-dimensional semiconductor structures that produce point sources of light.
The conventional light sources used in photobiological studies as well as in phototherapy are incandescent lamps, fluorescent lamps, and electric arcs.
It is generally necessary to monochromatize their continuous spectrum.
This is accomplished with either a monochromator (with bandwidth 5-10 nm) or filters.
Conventional light sources are usually used in laboratory work for recording of action and absorption spectra or obtaining a wavelength which is not emitted by available lasers or LEDs [3].
Conventional PT devices (based on LD and LEDs) are generally configured into a hand-held probe with a single or a few point sources of light or a large stationary probe having an array of lasers for clinical use.
Since LDs and LED sources of radiation are small three-dimensional semiconductor devices that act as point sources of light, they cannot provide uniform doses of radiation over the treated surface of the body.
To solve this problem, light diffusers are used.
When several specific wavelengths are required, several types of laser diodes or LEDs with different emission wavelengths are used within an array, making it yet more difficult to achieve uniform irradiation of a particular wave length.
LD or LEDs array mounted on a substrate possess its own circuitry with wiring required to each individual LED or LD.
LED arrays also generally require a cooling mechanism.
If you take the same type of low powered laser and combine newly developed light sensitive drugs, the effect changes.
This creates a photochemical reaction able to eliminate tumors, diseased tissue and bacterial infections.
This treatment is called PDT (photodynamic therapy).
PDT came to fruition with the first FDA approvals in the late 1990s, much of it guided by Thomas Dougherty MD of Roswell Park Cancer Center in New York.
PDT is performed by injecting or applying topically a drug that makes the tissue light sensitive, then shining monochromatic light on the affected tissue.
This technology can be effective at eliminating cancers, systemic and epidermal.
It is also a powerful antibacterial agent, eliminating topical infection and periodontal bacteria, and has the amazing ability to melt away artery plaque with a light catheter.
All over the globe PDT is successfully treating skin, lung, breast, vaginal and throat cancers, brain tumors, macular degeneration, gum disease and pre cancerous cell conditions.
Light activated drugs in combination with specific waves of photons create a photochemical reaction that destroys problematic tissue.
-----
This is the principle behind using homeopathics with light. It's not exactly the same thing but it's similar in theory.
I thought it was interesting....
Also read about Ultraviolet Blood Irradiation in the same article link above. Interesting stuff!
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Where are they using the BIONIC 880 in the UK please?
If there is one here, I still would think of seeing Dr W. I have heard with ART testing, it is the operator that is important. If I did not have such a mercury problem I would probably trust someone else.
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sparkle7
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Contact them to find out about a practicioner... maybe they can tell you who does it there.
If you find out - let us know. I don't think they want you post names on the message board, though.
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Marnie
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I am more and more hopeful about using far infrared!!!
PLEASE, I beg you...
Read my post on DNP bad idea.
PLEASE.
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NanaDubo
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I looked into ultraviolet blood irradiation - it's not legal in my State.
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posted
Many thanks sparkle, have e-mailed them.
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Marnie
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We are NOT using UVB...
It is UVA.
Different wavelength entirely.
HUGE difference.
UVA IS approved. It is considered physical therapy method...not medical therapy method.
To heal faster.
PLEASE read my DNP was not a good idea post. Try to catch on. Print it out. Study it.
Over and over until you "catch on".
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sparkle7
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What does DNP have to do with infra red or UV light?
What is DNP, anyway?
The article posted there has to do with low dose estrogen & breast cancer.
I'm sorry - I just don't follow you. I'm not a chemist.
Can you post your comments in regular language so people who don't have a chemistry background can understand what you are explaining?
It would really help us. Many of us have brain fog & can't even understand regular language to begin with.
Trying to understand chemistry jargon is like trying to read ancient Martian or something.
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lymie_in_md
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It a little out of my league, but I'd love to read it.
By Max Rempel (Rochester NY USA) This is best so far book on biophotons and biophotonics. All authors are scientists and write their views on the subject from strictly scientific, experimental point of view.
There are theoretical works in the book but the style and way of thinking is scientific. The subject of the book are biophotons, i.e.
photons irradiated by cells. The authors come very close to biological energy and biological fields, but don't cross the line.
The team of authors is international. It is centered around the International Institute of Biophysics in Germany.
Unfortunately, American science is behind the rest of the world in this field. Part of that is due commercial dominance of pharmaceutical
industry, part of that if due to fear of unscientific way of thinking. Thus, the science of biophotonics that comes close to scientific explanation of biological fields is almost non-
existent in States. This book therefore would be recommended to scientists interested in learning current level of thinking and research in the field.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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sparkle7
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Do you have any idea why the book is so expensive?
I feel like we are going through the same thing all over again... ie: Why is the Bionic 880 so expensive?
I understand that he did alot of work to get these ideas but doesn't he want the public to learn about this? Or is the knowledge just for the elite?
Almost every light related gizmo out there uses Popp's name in the research to promote it...
Maybe you can try the library? or a university library?
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oxygenbabe
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Its expensive because its a medical textbook published by Springer. Institutions buy them.
As for Marnie--no offense intended--but Marnie has been "curing" lyme for about seven or eight years now, her research is always completely incomprehensible to me, some kind of smattering of this and that biology whose dots never connect into anything translatable in a sensible way into treatment. She means well.
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sparkle7
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I thought institutions are where they lock people up? (wink)
Oh, so the money expenditures just get passed down to the students, patients, & taxpayers... I get it.
I see this everyday... we sell used college textbooks for a living. $90 Chemistry books, $75 Sociology books, etc. The students have no choice. It's like shooting fish in a barrel for the publishers.
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lymie_in_md
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Its meant for Dr.s and researchers mostly, not to be a best seller in paperback. If the audience is small there selling to, the price is high. And yes it is a medical book.
The good news is theres a book on it and it is meant for the medical community to educate them.
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oxygenbabe
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Well, think about it, one institution, and innumerable teachers and students can borrow it. Academic publishers, for some books, don't sell enough. I mean, you might sell a couple thousand copies. In addition, the same is true of journals. The institutions have consortiums, and share the exorbitant cost of journals--which these days mostly have e-pub ahead of print. But think of the innumerable amounts of students, now and in the future, who have permanent access to those journal articles. Its the privilege of the institution. Academic publishing has a completely different model than trade publishing. You don't get Marley & Me (that book about a dog that has sold 4 million copies). You have to do "revisions" and "new editions" in order to "backlist" certain books, ie keep them updated. Its just a different model and I think its a fair one. Most likely you could ask your public library to consider buying it if you're in a large city.
Occasionally I ask for review copies of medical texts, so I just tried with this one. Sometimes they send them but sometimes they turn me down as review copies can be scarce, esp for older books.
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lymie_in_md
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Oxygenbabe, I think Marnie is onto this one. A little probing and I think Marnie is spot on. She has been looking for how cells can be so depressed and how to undepress them. In 7 to 8 years nothing has come along like infrared specifically at 880nm as the means to reactivate depressed cells and re-energizing them.
So saunas aren't concentrated at the right light frequency to do it or come close. The LEDs are!
There is much to read in Sparkle's links about photodynamic therapy:
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oxygenbabe
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Infrared 880's have been around for ages. My Chee Energy device utilizes them. "V" (ledman.net is the URL I think) makes devices for pain/healing with them for reasonable prices. They are not going to cure lyme imo. That's wishful thinking. Perhaps using a potent pulsing device with the right frequencies *and* nosodes, will do something. Its the overall combination that works, if it does even work. I'm actually skeptical right now, but willing to wait and watch and hope that even as adjunctive therapy it would be useful.
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Keebler
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-
As I understand it, 2,000 patients have done very well with this treatment. That speaks volumes to me - and offers a glimpse of hope to others with no access a LLMD &/or who can't afford - or tolerate - years of multiple meds and supplements, anyway. [edited to add: well, yeah, I forgot about the cost of this - I'm still giddy from the chance of anything working.]
The hope of this has put a little spring in my step. Many have gotten WAY better. They can ENJOY fairly normal, and even normal, lives again.
That makes MY day !
(I am fairly certain of the count though, usually, I do like to back up such stuff with a quote from a source. I'm housesitting now so don't have access to my file notes saved on my own computer. I don't have the energy to search.)
-
[ 28. June 2008, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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sparkle7
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re: Well, think about it, one institution, and innumerable teachers and students can borrow it.
I don't know $170 seems alot for a book like this. I'm not affiliated with an institution.
I sell used textbooks & I think the publishers make huge money selling overpriced, new editions to students every year.
I guess it's OK since we end up making a living re-selling them. The publishers don't like it, though. That's why they come out with all these CDs, one time use passcodes, etc. along with the books.
I went to college back in the 80's - I thought it was a big thing to be $5,000 in debt after 4 years of college.
Kids get out of school being $70,000 - $100,000 in debt now. I think education is overpriced here in the USA. I don't see how this helps us as a society.
My friend went to a local school here & they made him take gym classes like yoga, etc. to get his degree. He was studying humanities. What's that all about?
They make all the students sponsor the football team & they build million dollar stadiums... They also get taxpayer dollars to sponsor this stuff.
Someone is getting paid. It's a corrupt system. They cut back on tenured professors, get adjuncts to teach & they don't give them benefits.
The gov't gives universities money to research black budget projects... it seems a little skewed but what do I know. I studied fine art.
Sorry to get off the track of the thread here.
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oxygenbabe
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Keebler: 2000 un-named undocumented patients in another country, we cannot track down, and we do not know the source of their lyme diagnosis ("western blot"? "bullseye rash"? or "muscle testing"?)
We have to be skeptical as most likely the reports are not valid.
But we have to be open in case they are, or even some of them are.
Sparkle: I hear you. Well, glad you're making a living off it. Just curious but how do you do that--you actually buy them up from students and then re-sell them online or something? And ship them out?
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sparkle7
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I agree it's good to be skeptical. There is alot of research on light & healing, though. I ordered the LightWorks by SOTA from Elixa. I should get it in a few days.
I would be happy if it helps with the pain in my back. I am going to try it out with the nosodes when I get used to how it works.
I'll PM you about our book biz - oxygenbabe.
I think education should be accessible to everyone who is interested. Some people use degrees to hide behind & actually know very little. In many ways, universities can be like big social clubs. It's fairly elitist. I guess that's just the way the world works...
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lymie_in_md
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The only endorsement I need right now is GiGi. So we'll know in a few weeks.
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The harder you work the luckier you get! Posts: 965 | From Nebraska Cornhuskers fan in Massachusetts | Registered: Dec 2007
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lymie_in_md
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Some things to consider, he is a doctor stating he's put in remission 2000 people. The big question, If he's put in remission 2000 where are the complaints? Gabrielle can't find them on any site. If a doctor here in this country put in remission 2000 and announced it to the world and it wasn't true, what would his reputation be. Doctor's can't put themselves in a position of snake oil salesmen. They have to protect their ability to practice. He is on the agenda specifically about lyme at the German congresses. These congresses are the German medical establishment and he is their current lyme hero. He is a speaker at many of these congresses I've seen several agendas just for this year.
In this country it would be the same if a Dr. comes out of ILADs and had 98% remission with a brand new ABX. How much buzz would we have on the internet if wasn't true? How much information would we have if everyone was in remission.
One of the most important medical books is in German specifically about light therapy. Now we have an english version targetted to the institutions. If this is snake oil, this is a brand I hadn't seen before.
One last thought, a new treatment modality in this country takes 20 years to assimilate in our medical establishment.
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oxygenbabe
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Re: the only report you need is Gigi. Gigi is a wonderful source of information but Gigi is not always correct, and I'll just leave it at that. In addition, even if Gigi comes back enthused, $10,000 is a lot of $ so at that point I myself will still watch and wait.
As for the 2000 patients, who has proof there were 2000 actually tested with lyme? Maybe he means he muscle tested them and decided they had latent lyme, for instance, and maybe that is a completely subjective and inaccurate measure. Were they all documented with bullseye rash, known tick exposure, western blot, or any of the above? Maybe there were 200, not 2000. How long were the patients followed up for? We have nothing but his word along with--more interesting to me--a few firsthand conversations Gigi had with a patient or two. However, he also uses other modalities, such as what sounded like vitamin/mineral detox IV's. I can tell you that without my vitamin/mineral IV's I feel SO MUCH worse it is like night and day. My point here is that he uses a number of modalities and so the picture is vague.
In addition, as for negative reports, well, where are the positive reports? There is a well known Yahoo group called Eurolyme. If 2000 very sick lyme patients were cured in a small country like Germany, wouldn't the word get around? Wouldn't somebody be posting on lyme groups, especially EuroLyme?
As for the book about biophotons, we haven't read it, any of us, and we don't know what claims he makes, but unless in that book he claims proof that Bionic 880 pulsed at certain frequencies cures lyme, then it really is irrelevant to our specific situations right now, even if the insights into biophysics in the body is unique and important. Insights do not necessarily equal applications, or yield such applications immediately.
I'm just pointing out reasonable inquiries. That's simply because I've seen miracle cures come and go and I learned there are no miracle cures, but various things that can help.
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sparkle7
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I spent a while today searching Google UK & the internet for anything about the Bionic 880 & Lyme.
I really couldn't find much at all.
The company's website says there is info available on the internet but I couldn't find anything about it.
The company's website is kind of lacking of information - if you ask me.
I looked for practicioners, people's comments, anything.
The company's website also links the development of the device to Fritz Popp "semantically" but I don't think that he developed it.
I think the institution that Fritz Popp created may have given the device some sort of certification but I don't think he was personally involved in it's development.
There are many "new age" gizmos around & they all say something about Fritz Popp on their websites.
I have no idea how the company came up with the frequencies that they use.
Someone mentioned a while ago that they tried to get anyone to back up claims that they were cured & it all fell short. They even pursued Lyme groups in Germany but no one would respond.
I am still very skeptical but I do think that infrared light does have some healing properties. This is why I bought a LightWorks by SOTA a couple of days ago for $295.
As for this modality being a true cure - I'm a bit wary. I was also a bit suspect about it being a all around panacea - curing metal toxicity or other things. I guess we'll see.
I do think this modality has some great potential but I am still skeptical.
You would think if 2000 people were cured that this news would spread like wildfire on the web.
There would also be some "real" studies about this - not just a testimonial.
This modality may be being suppressed but I think there would be something out there about this other then the companies website & one other German doctor's website that I found.
I hope I'm wrong but I've seen alot of so-called miracle cures, come & go, too.
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lymie_in_md
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quote:Re: the only report you need is Gigi. Gigi is a wonderful source of information but Gigi is not always correct, and I'll just leave it at that. In addition, even if Gigi comes back enthused, $10,000 is a lot of $ so at that point I myself will still watch and wait.
I want point for point how GiGi has ever been incorrect. I would appreciate a complete justification for it or don't make the statement.
As far as 2000 patients, Dr. Woitzel states that he has put that many in remission. You either take him for his word or not.
By the way, there are great number of people who don't post on forums, If you look at the number of lymies in this country, we'll say 2 million, we have 16 thousand plus members, do the math. In Germany there culture is much different then ours. They are far more reserved and far less likely to post. And if your in remission, do you announce it to the world or go on with your life? We have an expert on that, Gabrielle, who lives in Germany and can't get info either which way otherwise she'd let us know.
The doctor only works with lymies period. So would you suggest he's fabricating his practice too, just to confuse us.
So, it is your choice to dismiss a doctors words, I just hope others don't.
quote:In addition, as for negative reports, well, where are the positive reports? There is a well known Yahoo group called Eurolyme. If 2000 very sick lyme patients were cured in a small country like Germany, wouldn't the word get around? Wouldn't somebody be posting on lyme groups, especially EuroLyme?
Germany has a population of about 82 million, it is the 14 most populous country in the world. It's interesting you view them as a small country.
Another fact about Germany you should be aware. The German health care system ranking by the World Health Organization is 25th in the world. The United States with all its resources and money is 37th. Germany is the country that proved biophotons exist in nature. The biophysicist there is the foremost authority on it, considering he was nominated for a nobel prize for biophysics. He is part of a world wide think tank on biophoton research.
Oxygenbabe, I think you should review your facts.
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sparkle7
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I don't have anything against GiGi or Dr. W. We are all human & have different ways to go about curing ourselves, what we like, what works, etc.
It's a personal choice & we all respond differently to things.
I would just like to see some more solid studies about biophotons & Lyme, either from the company or from some 3rd party. There isn't a whole lot of information out there about this.
Other countries have been studying this for a while, too.
One example -
Illuminating the Mother of Qi
By David Rindge, DOM, LAc, RN
Biostimulation - life stimulation - and tissue regeneration1 are the first effects of laser therapy2 cited in much of the scientific literature.
How many therapies or drugs can make such a claim? Are there ways these healing benefits might be enhanced?
Intravenous and transcutaneous laser blood irradiation, as well as extracorporeal irradiation of the blood with broadband ultraviolet and other forms of noncoherent light, are widely practiced throughout Russia, Germany and eastern Europe.
Although some of these techniques may seem foreign to many readers, it is possible to achieve similar effects noninvasively.
Levon Gasparyan writes, "Unlike the treatment mechanisms of local laser therapy, the medical effects of photo-hemotherapy methods are determined by predominance of systemic healing mechanisms above the local ones, increasing the functioning efficacy of vascular, respiratory, immune, other systems and organism as a whole."3
Blood Is the Mother of Qi, and Qi Is the Commander of Blood
A small stimulus in the right place can have far-reaching effects.
When as little as 1 1/2-2 1/2 percent of the blood volume is irradiated with laser light, it may induce the entire circulatory volume to begin emitting biophotons.4
Imagine a wave of light expanding throughout the blood as more and more cells are recruited to emit biophotons.
This secondary emission, known as bioluminescence or chemiluminescence, may be far greater than the initial exposure to light.
Now imagine light streaming from blood cells throughout the entire circulatory system, illuminating capillaries inside the liver, brain, kidneys, and everywhere throughout the body.
The emission of biophotons5 by the blood itself is responsible for most effects.
Oxygen levels in venous blood rise shortly after blood irradiation, and may remain high for days or weeks afterward.
Blood viscosity is reduced, improving capillary blood flow and peripheral circulation. LDL and total cholesterol decrease, while HDL increases.
C-reactive protein drops. Red blood cell formation is stimulated, and white blood cell activity and numbers increase.
Blood irradiation may create the perfect vaccine, immunizing the body with its own invaders.
Only a small percentage of microorganisms are killed during the initial exposure.
However, during bioluminescence, all or a large portion of bacteria and viruses may be accurately targeted by biophotons.
Most of the body's own cells and friendly flora seem relatively untouched, and may even benefit.
Viruses, bacteria and many dysfunctional cells are highly vulnerable. It has been proposed that blood irradiation may be the most effective treatment available for HIV.
Blood Irradiation Is a U.S. Invention
Seattle resident Emmett Knott patented the first ultraviolet blood irradiation device in 1928.
By the early 1940s, it was being used with great success to treat bacterial and viral infections, and in many autoimmune and inflammatory conditions as well.
It has been investigated thoroughly in a great many clinical trials, and numerous articles about it have been published in peer-reviewed journals.
Positive results have been reported in the treatment of AIDS, appendicitis, atopic dermatitis, botulism, bronchial asthma, burns, cyanosis, emphysema, encephalitis, endocarditis, fever, gangrene, hepatitis, hypertension, infection (bacterial or viral), paralytic ileus, pelvic inflammatory disease, peritonitis, pneumonia, polio, rheumatoid arthritis, snakebite, thrombophlebitis, and thrombosis.
Ultraviolet blood irradiation has been reported to cure the common cold and flu in case studies.
However, with the advent of antibiotics and the Salk vaccine in the 1940s and 1950s, most of mainstream American medicine turned to drug therapies even though these did not exhibit ultraviolet blood irradiation's capability in viral infection or in autoimmune and inflammatory conditions.
Kenneth Dillon writes, "Biophotonic therapy is effective against many disorders. It was a serious lapse for American medical science to ignore the documentation - including various controlled studies that had been developed over 30 years beginning in 1928 regarding BT treatment of hundreds of thousands of patients by reputable physicians."6
The Russian Experience
By the 1970s, both laser therapy and ultraviolet blood irradiation were widely practiced in the Soviet Union. Intravenous laser blood irradiation is a Russian innovation, blending both techniques.
Originally used to treat cardiovascular conditions, it was quickly found to have much broader therapeutic applications.
Thousands of practitioners throughout eastern Europe, Russia and Germany use many forms of invasive and noninvasive blood irradiation.
The list of conditions being treated is exhaustive, and research is extensive.
Although specific effects and mechanisms may differ, depending upon the methods, dosage, wavelength, and coherence/noncoherence of the light source, both laser and ultraviolet blood irradiation elicit biophotonic emission by the blood.
Intravenous laser blood irradiation is easier to perform, as coherent light may be transmitted through a fiberoptic light guide directly into a blood vessel.
The most popular devices in Russia for this are helium-neon lasers with outputs of 1-3 milliwatts.
Treatments last between 20 minutes and 60 minutes, and a typical course consists of between three and 10 daily procedures.
To irradiate the blood with ultraviolet or other noncoherent light sources, blood must be withdrawn, anticoagulated, irradiated, and then re-infused.
This requires a relatively large needle and excellent IV skills. Ultraviolet blood irradiation has been practiced in the U.S. for more than 75 years.
Noninvasive Laser Blood Irradiation
An advantage of coherent laser light over all other light sources is that it can penetrate at red to near-infrared wavelengths to reach the blood noninvasively.
Whenever laser therapy is given, some blood will be irradiated.
This must surely account for many of the non-local health benefits that have been observed.
Two methods might be used to maximize the absorption of laser light by the blood noninvasively.
One may treat either over large blood vessels or over capillary networks (muscle, mucous membranes, sublingually) in light contact.
Although 20 milliwatts transcutaneously has been estimated as equivalent to one milliwatt intravenously if one is using helium-neon lasers,3 treating noninvasively is an art as well as a science.
Effects are less predictable. As in any form of therapy, outcomes will be maximized with knowledge, experience, and the right clinical tools.
Commentary
Laser therapy adds energy to activate immunity and increase the health of living systems.
When we understand its deeper effects, we will know much more about ourselves.
Laser therapy at low intensity is painless, without risk of infection or trauma, and has enormous potential benefits that deserve to be thoroughly funded and explored.
References
Simunovic Z. Lasers in Medicine and Dentistry. Basic Science and Up-to-Date clinical Application of Low Energy-Level Laser Therapy (LLLT). Locarno, Switzerland/Rijeka, Croatia, 2000, p. 279.
Laser therapy is the most commonly used term to describe the therapeutic application of laser light at low intensity.
Gasparayan L. Laser irradiation of the blood. Published jointly in Laser Partner (www.laserpartner.org) and Laser World (www.laser.nu), Oct. 1, 2003. Samoilova KA. Role of the Circulating Blood in Initiation of Therapeutic Effects of Visible Light. St. Petersburg, Russia: Institute of Cytology of the Russian Academy of Sciences.
Biophotons, coherent, monochromatic light emitted by all living cells, are discussed at greater length in the second article in this series.
Fritz A. Popp and colleagues developed equipment sensitive enough to measure and study biophotons in 1971.
Popp proposed that they control most, if not all, physiological processes.
The International Institute of Biophysics (www.lifescientists.de/ib_000e_.htm) coordinates international biophoton research and is a good resource for more information.
Dillon KJ. Close-to-Nature Medicine. Washington, D.C.: Scientia Press, 2003, p. 15. Bibliography
Dillon KJ. Healing Photons: The Science and Art of Blood Irradiation Therapy. Washington, D.C.: Scientia Press, 1998.
Douglass WC. Into the Light: Tomorrow's Medicine Today. Atlanta: Second Opinion Publishing, 1993.
Tuner J, Hode L. Low-Level Laser Therapy - Clinical Practice and Scientific Background. Gr�gesberg, Sweden: Prima Books, 1999.
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sparkle7
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More -
Implications of Plant Genome Research to Alternative Therapies: A Case for Radiogenic Metabolism in Humans
Supporting Research in Bioluminescence If the theory of radiogenic metabolism as an alternative cellular energy source is plausible, then evidence should exist documenting both photon uptake and light emission from cellular sources.
The existence of such phenomena was first postulated and tested by Russian research A.G. Gurwitsch in the early years of the 20th Century. 12
He demonstrated that dividing cells emit ultraviolet radiation, that he dubbed "mitogenic radiation," capable of stimulating mitotic division in other cells.
Among the plethora of his significant findings, Gurwitsch was able to discern specific caloric requirements necessary to perform certain cellular functions.
He wrote, "To initiate the process in an amino acid solution, the photon energy should exceed 105 kcal/mol.
This energy may be supplied either by a single photon with a wavelength not exceeding 270 nm, or by two photons.
The energy of the first should be not less than 87.4 kcal/mol (326 nm), while the second can belong to the visible or infrared range with an energy limit of 18 kcal/mol, that is, around 1,500 nm. . .
We established that from 326 nm, up to the short wavelength limit of a quartz spectrograph, effectiveness of the UV radiation depends exclusively upon the degree of UV absorption by the peptone or amino acids, rather than upon the photon wavelength."
----
PS - I have nothing against Fritz Popp but you have to remember that Hitler was also nominated for a Nobel Prize...
Research in this area of biophotons has been going on for a while.
I think it was suppressed since the decision was to use pharmaceuticals for the principle mode of healing early in the 20th century.
It has been shown as far as at the beginning of 1930-ies by A.G. Gurwitsch and then by other authors that animal and human blood as well as nervous tissue unlike other animal tissues spontaneously emit mitogenetic photons [21,22].
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sparkle7
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Many good articles for free!
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NanaDubo
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Just for the record there is at least one person on the Eurolyme board who is being treated with the Bionic880.
Her practitioner does not have nosodes and she has found someone else in the UK that does and will start being treated there.
One of the reps for the Bionic 880 has emailed me and said there are not very many in the UK - far more in Germany.
A very good friend of mine went to medical school in Germany and from what she says, they just might be a little ahead of the game there (and have been for a long time).
Posts: 1129 | From Maine | Registered: Feb 2008
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lymie_in_md
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Great articles Sparkle! It is a shame science had just focused on one modality because of the profit model.
We could diminish the accomplishment of every nobel nominee and laureate with the Hitler comparison. It might be a little over the top. But when it comes to who's who on the nominees for the nobel peace prize, you shouldn't have stopped at Hitler.
quote:According to Nobel Prize nominating rules, any "professor of social sciences, history, philosophy, law and theology" and any judge or national legislator in any country, among others, can nominate anyone for a Nobel Peace Prize. Past nominees include Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin, Benito Mussolini and Fidel Castro. Any "professor of literature [or] of linguistics," among others, can nominate anyone for a Nobel Prize in literature.
I think biophysics requires a little more merit from the nominating committee. One is based on scientific accomplishment, the other is just pure politics. I hope there is a difference for all our sake.
As far as waiting 20 years for the biophoton research specific to lyme. You willing to wait?
And how good is research, have you read "Cure Unknown", you can basically prove any bias through research. Speaking of bias remember the only way Fritz Popp could gain research money was to say he was going to prove light didn't exist in cells because of the scientific bias of the funders. One last point, research has proved there is no such thing as chronic lyme it is in our heads according to Dr. Leonard Sigal.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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oxygenbabe
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Bob, I'm not going to get into a flame war here with you. I am raising very reasonable doubts, and that does not mean that anybody has to get deeply offended. I just would never rest my decision on only one other person's testimony, and I'd wait for about six months to a year even on that testimony to be sure there was not a powerful placebo effect. I think suggesting that the culture of Germany is such that nobody who was chronically ill and miserable and is now cured, out of 2000 people, would talk about it because they are a reserved culture, seems far fetched. It is true that I don't take someone's word for something simply because they have an M.D. after their name. I am interested in this therapy and yet suitably skeptical of the claims. My personal hunch is it will not pan out as a cure for lyme or anything close to it and that it may however, be useful in fibromyalgia and pain. On the other hand, if you form a group of 10 or 20, they all do the therapy, and they all get well, I will revise my hunch, without any embarrassment.
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Tracy9
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Any reason we aren't getting any reports from GiGi while she is in Germany? Obviously they have the Internet there.
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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lymie_in_md
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Tracy, GiGi was pretty clear she probably would not post while in Germany, for her own reasons. I suspect the treatment to be 4 to 5 weeks and we just need to be patient.
Oxygenbabe, I don't like the term cure. We need to view the term "cure" politically as 4 letter word. Use that term and insurance companies, pharma, the AMA, FDA, and government starts putting sanctions. A better term is remission.
No one said this is a cure. We have a doctor in Germany who has 2000 cases in remission. As far as testimonials, we have a woman who was treated by Dr. W. when GiGi called the inn to stay, the inn keeper said the woman got well. We have an alternative healer in British Columbia who purchased the unit and healed himself and some friends and family. GiGi has a relative who got well with Dr. W. Gabrielle searched the internet for all the lyme forums in Germany and found nothing either which way. Gabrielle did find a woman who was treated by Dr. W. and would not comment one way or another.
I'll make the point one more time, someone does get well from treatment is usually pretty quiet about it, someone who doesn't is usually pretty loud about it. It is just being human.
It may be impossible to get testimonials if people don't want to provide them.
The only way we will ever know is some of us get the treatment and report back. I'm guessing thats how we will know. It's up to someone here to decide on being a pioneer or to wait on the side line.
Below you can see the Dr. is a speaker at a german Medical Congress (convention) in Essen.
One point GiGi made clear, don't call the Doctor directly.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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sparkle7
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I'm not all that impressed by a Nobel prize. If this was a different world, maybe it would be valid. I think it's just a big political football.
Al Gore... give me a break.
This doesn't diminish any contributions that Fritz Popp has made.
Seems that Germany may be more progressive about medicine. I don't know first hand. They are also quite familiar with homeopathy over there.
Borrelia has been there for longer than in the US. Some people think that's were it came from.
It was weaponized here by a German scientist during Operation Paperclip after WW2. But that's a whole other story...
It just seems after suffering with Lyme - if I found something that cured me, I would let everybody know about it!
The world needs all the good new it can get.
There is alot of interesting research about light as a healing modality. I'm open to new things.
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oxygenbabe
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Bob: "We have a doctor in Germany who has 2000 cases in remission." According to himself anyway...we have no documentation of stuff.
As I said, I've seen miracle "cures" come and go.
Testimonials is the name of the game from Xango to Kombucha to MMS.
Of course people shout from the rooftops when they get better from a difficult, chronic infection. I think it's quite common if, after struggling and suffering and finally finding something that helps you, you pay it forward. It really seems unlikely you then shrug and move on and never tell anybody what helped you.
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lymie_in_md
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Oxygenbabe your entitled to your opinion. I think its too soon to throw it under the bus. We just don't have enough information. And I totally disagree with your assessment, that it would be found in all the newspapers and touted as the next great thing.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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sparkle7
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It may not be touted in the newspapers but it would have been on some message boards for people with Lyme or personal blogs.
Maybe it's just too new? I can't say.
I am very psyched about using light as a healing modality but I don't think the Bionic 880 has a corner on the market.
Light is light. People may go crazy finding the "correct" pulse frequency or wavelength. A few things are recognized - infra red wavelengths of 880 nm are useful for healing.
So, it worth a try for a few hundred bucks. Whether I'd spend $10,000 is another matter. I guess if I were wealthy...(?)
I'd also like to try the nosodes in time. I'm going to check out the LighWorks, first, & see if it's helpful.
I'm glad GiGi brought this to our attention & I hope everything goes well for her & her husband.
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lymie_in_md
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Gabrielle gave a hint as to why they aren't on German message boards. If you put anything alternative on them you get badly bashed. So people don't. They have one message board she said that what alternative but not very well frequented. Dr W. my be just word of mouth from support groups.
A couple of things to consider: his practice is for lyme only. He makes money by treating lyme patients, the more he treats the more money he makes. There is no positive feedback there is no negative feedback. For everyone stating we should of heard some positive feedback, what about the negative feedback -- none of that either.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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germany is way ahead of us in medicine. also in attitudes towards medicine.
they accept homeopathy and things like neural therapy as normal medicine, alongside allopathic approaches. insurance would cover all of them.
i have used the both good homeopathy and neural therapy, and they are excellent.
i also have had to have two surgeries done in germany because our system here just plain sucks, it is supported by corporate money and egos.
that is why so many llmds don't take insurance, in a nutshell.
i actually plan on moving to germany once i am better from the lyme, at least i am trying to.
-------------------- do your best to educate the rest because 9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses Posts: 437 | From shawangunk mountains, ny | Registered: May 2008
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NanaDubo
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Cudos NYJohn! I couldn't agree more about medicine in Germany.
I spoke earlier of my friend who went to medical school there over 30 years ago. Herbs and Bach Flower remedies were part of the STANDARD curriculum. Hint, hint.
I have friends that have gone to medical school in the US and wouldn't know a Bach Flower Remedy if it landed in there lap and if it did they would probably through it away.
The moderator of Eurolyme told me that they are just starting to hear about the Bionic 880 in the UK. I think in time there will be much more buzz about it there too.
Call it a hunch, call it whatever you want but I'm going and I have a really good feeling about this.
I don't know the reason for so little feed-back one way or the other. I do know that my body wants to be better and is leading me there instead of a hundred other places I could go.
Also, keep in mind that the culture is much different than ours. Maybe they just don't go around posting on sites all over the place about being cured or in remission or anything that feels private to them.
I encourage everyone to do what works for you but please, don't start getting down on the ones that aren't following your own protocol.
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lymie_in_md
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Your quite a pioneer Nanadubo.
I guess if you look at it as a time line. Dr W. started this 8 years ago. In the first 4 of those years he treated about 100 patients for lyme and other issues. I don't think he established his practice on lyme until 4 years ago.
If GiGi didn't tell us about it, it wouldn't be on the radar here. It seems the same can be said of the UK and eurolyme. My guess, they found out from our posts.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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oxygenbabe
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Nanadoo I'm glad you're going. I of course want to hear about people who try it.
Bob, I never said anything *like*, remotely *like*, "your assessment, that it would be found in all the newspapers and touted as the next great thing."
Excuse moi? I did respond to your point that nobody would talk about it. I think people would talk, there would be buzz, there would be talk on message groups, postings, etc. I said people would pay it forward, not keep their mouths shut and just shrug and move on.
I also did not throw the therapy "under the bus." I am interested, hope people try it, will stay on the sidelines, and don't have high expectations and am not overly credulous from some testimonials I can't verify and a doctor's claim that 2000 chronic lyme patients became symptom free rather quickly with his treatment. Nobody should be credulous when they can't document something.
Re: medicine in America I agree its pits with managed care, HMO's and insurance companies. Its better all over Europe than here and in Australia, too.
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lymie_in_md
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Oxygenbabe, No, you didn't say anthing about newspapers that was my addition, sorry for any confusion. I guess I got too liberal with some of my words again sorry about that.
When something is this new even to the scientific community and is such a radical change in view, there may be very little written or said about it. Its, kind of like seeing 4 aliens in your backyard and they cure you of lyme, do really trust telling anybody about it. I believe this very situation can happen to 2000 people who are pretty reserved anyways.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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