posted
Hi. Zhang's Artemisiae (which many here are taking for babesia) has astragalus as one of its three ingredients.
Buhner's book Healing Lyme (p. 125) says astragalus is definitely contraindicated for chronic lyme (however useful for early lyme).
Has anyone had this adequately explained to them, or can anyone explain it to me? Are we helping the babs while hurting the lyme?
Thanks.
Posts: 204 | From ma | Registered: May 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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It can be quite confusing. Basically, t all comes down to the amount and the combination, with other ingredients.
It's not simple but the bases have been covered by the third ingredient in the artemisinin to balance the effects. Adding to that, the overall protocol that includes the artemisinin takes into account the full protocol so that the balance is achieve.
AI#1, especially, is suggested so the immune system is not overly stimulated.
The DOSE, too, matters (see article below).
the reason that Buhner - and other herbalists - say to avoid astragalus has to do with its effects as an individual ingredient in being too stimulating to the immune system in some cases. Also, usual dosage of astragalus is higher than in the artemisinin formula.
Also, consider that these are two different protocols. They both hold value when all considerations are weighed.
When ingredients are combined, certain aspects may be enhanced or subdued (as with the A#1).
I had the same question and asked a couple different NDs about it and I talked to Dr. Zhang, too. Feel free to ask him about it - it's also explained in his book where it is explained that the combination formula is more effective than the single ingredient of artemisinin.
The ITM article below explains how adding less than a normal therapeutic dose of a stronger herb can still hold other desirable effects when in a combination.
Total of 3 ingredients in artemisinin is 400 mg. While this is a proprietary blend, assuming even that if the astragalus would be about a third at 130 mg ( 3x day), that is far below the maximum therapeutic dose of just astragalus at 5 grams (500 mg), 3 x a day.
Still, in fairness, you can certainly ask the author and manufacturer of the product to be sure you have the exact answer you need. I've never met anyone more accessible to patients.
Unfortunately, the language of our modern Western medical culture seems to have lost some of these descriptive terms illustrating ideas that plant-based societies have embraced over time.
Think of this chapter as a map of a foreign country. All the words on the map seem unfamiliar at first, but you need to know some of them to get around. Once learned, they make the world of herbal medicine much easier to understand.
My purpose in teaching these ideas is to provide you, as a consumer, access to the traditions of Eastern and Western herbal medicine through familiarity with basic ideas. This will allow you to choose and learn about herbs more effectively.
ASTRAGALUS - Practical Aspects of Administering the Herb
- by Subhuti Dharmananda, Ph.D.
excerpt:
. . .
DOSAGE AND EFFECT
The analysis of active constituents present above reveals that a dose of about 15 grams of astragalus, as frequently used in decoctions, may be sufficient to attain only some of the desired effects of the known active components, but that a 20-30 gram dose would be more suitable.
The Chinese Materia Medica recommendations for astragalus dosing are 9-15 grams/day (with the understanding that astragalus is to be used in formulas with other herbs); high doses of 30-60 grams are also suggested, at least for some applications (usually not specified).
When dosing at or below 15 grams, an herbalist is counting on other herbs in a formula to contribute some similar active components in order to get the desired therapeutic action.
Thus, for example, a decoction made with astragalus, ganoderma (lingzhi), and red ginseng would provide polysaccharides and saponins from all three herbs, and so long as the total dosing of these three ingredients was sufficient, then astragalus at 9-15 grams/day would be acceptable.
. . .
- full article at link.
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[ 04. July 2008, 10:34 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Thanks for the great link Keebler!
The one for "The One Earth Herbal Sourcebook".
Very interesting! It doesn't have alot about Lyme, specifically, but it does have alot of other useful info.
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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bystander,
Part B. to my reply above: I mentioned it, but not directly. While one formula may be given to both acute (new) lyme patients and to chronic patients, the rest of the protocol has differences for the two types of patients.
That is what can make the difference in the use of a particular ingredient.
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Sparkle,
True the "One Earth Herbal Sourcebook" has only one reference to lyme (sarsaparilla history with syphilis) however, there are many herbs that are supportive in nature that are featured.
The wonder of this book, though, is that it so gracefully explains this type of medicine, the history and the practical parts.
A lyme doctor told me to get this years ago. It has provided many hours of enjoyable reading - in spurts - but still, I find it a great resource not just so much about what might help this or that but what processes are at work to create such a situation.
The way it explains why it's important to balance formulas for each person is also very insightful.
Most of what this book has given me, though, is new vision. If one way does not work, there is another way. And the use of citations and links backs up his words.
lightfoot
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2536
posted
Thanks so much for this post!
-------------------- Healing Smiles.....lightfoot Posts: 7228 | From CO | Registered: May 2002
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
I agree, Keebler. If one way doesn't work, try something else. There are really alot of herbal protocols to choose from.
I'm doing Cowden now but I still like to study the different herbs. If this doesn't get the complete results I want, I'll try the others.
I've studied herbal medicine for a while - not in a professional sense, just because I like plants & their properties.
I always get good results from herbal medicine. Drugs can be of benefit, too, but I always seem to do better with herbs.
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