sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
I've been using the bee venom honey for a few days & I had a pretty significant herx from it.
First I tried 1/2 tsp & it was too much.
Then, I tried 1/8 tsp & worked it up to 1/4 tsp. - I'm still herxing from it.
The herx is about the same, if not more so, than any I've experienced from abx. The herxing also started within about 1/2 a day of taking the honey.
If herxing is any indication that spirochetes are being killed - then, this is working.
I'll keep you all posted.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
I got the one with the propolis & bee venom. Propolis has alot of good properties. I figured for an extra $2, it would be worth it.
Manuka honey also has special properties, too.
---
Manuka VENZ� Propolis Honey VENZ� Propolis
NZ Patent# 29585
NZ Patent # 33790
Unique beneficial properties of ApiHealth New Zealand bee venom VENZ� combined with specially prepared ApiHealth soft propolis extract and high quality pure NZ Manuka honey.
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sparkle7
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posted
PROPOLIS
This sticky, brown resinous substance is collected by honeybees from various plants and mixed with wax. Used to sterilize their home against infection, bees also use propolis as a multy-purpose cement and varnish.
As is the honey product Propolis is as a powerful, all natural anti-biotic.
Propolis is the only food on earth containing all 22 nutrients needed by the body for complete and perfect health.
It contains over 16 different vitamins, rich in amino acids and trace elements; it also has a high vitamin content, including the valuable bioflavanoids and all in complete and natural balance.
The bioflafanoids in Propolis make it a superb anti-inflammatory. Flavanoids are a class of natural products of high pharmacological potency.
The high content of flavanoids in propolis is attributed to its success as a product itself. For centuries, physicians have used preparations, which contain flavanoids as the principal physiologically active constituents, in attempts to treat human disease.
There are nine flavanoids in New Zealand propolis, these are unique from the mix of flavanoids in propolis of other origins.
It is also enables it to be highly effective in boosting the whole body. It is believed that Hippocrates, the father of medicine, prescribed the use of propolis to help heal sores and ulcers, internally and externally.
Unlike penicillin or other drugs, propolis it always effective, because bacteria and viruses cannot be build tolerances against it.
Propolis actually stimulates strengthens and rejuvenates the immune system, which is the body's defense system against disease, cellular destruction and aging.
Danish scientist, Dr. K. Lund Aagaard, considered an expert on propolis states, " The whole research program had a single purpose, namely, to obtain a substance with the greatest efficiency against the greatest number of disease.
The numerous healings are relevant by themselves and the number of people who use propolis is ever increasing".
Some of the health problems people reports as responding to Propolis are:
� Anti-bacterial effect. Because of its strong antimicrobial activity, propolis is often known as a "natural antibiotic". A large number of studies have shown an inhibitory effect on a variety of microorganisms.
� Effects on Immune System. Propolis has been shown to stimulate an immune response. Perhaps the most broadly investigated and widely accepted attribute of bee propolis is its immune-boosting activity.
It is a natural, broad-spectrum antibiotic that activates the thymus gland. Bee propolis not only prevents infectious diseases, but clears them from the system, as well.
� Gastro-Intestinal Effects. In Romania, Drs. A. Vasilca and Eugenia Milcu conducted a study on the therapeutic properties of propolis on ulcers.
Thirty-four patients with chronic ulcers were given extracts of propolis daily for two weeks.
The results were impressive, with 28 patients completely recovering and six cases dramatically improving. Tissue biopsies were conducted on some of the patients, which confirmed the regenerative effects of bee propolis.
� Skin Infection Effects. � Anti-Inflammatory Effects. � Pain relief Effects. Propolis and some of its components produce pain relief effect, which in some studies has been shown to be 3 times as powerful as cocaine and 52 times that of procaine, when tested in rabbit cornea (Ghisalberti, 1979). � Cardiovascular Effects � Viral Infections � Respiratory Infections � Skin Infections � Dental Treatment � Wound Healing and Tissue Repair � Ear Infections. Patients (126) suffering external otitis, chronic mesotypanic otitis and tympan perforation were treated with propolis solutions (5-10%). � Elevated blood fat levels � Broken bones � Improper healing
The value of propolis as a perfect food as well as its medicinal and restorative properties have been hailed by scientists, researchers, and health & nutrition practitioners all around the world.
Propolis is a safe diet supplement, producing no negative side effects, and taken regularly can actually create a positive reaction to almost any disease.
In today's world where antibiotics are routinely over-prescribed, this bee product can be your very best first line of defense against illness and chronic disease.
PRECAUTION:
People who have allergic reactions to propolis should seek medical advice before using Propolis extract .
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
Sparkle are you worried about the honey feeding yeast at all or not really?
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posted
Where can I buy the bee venom honey and the other stuff that started with a P?
-------------------- "~*~My smile hides my bite~*~." Posts: 506 | From N/A | Registered: Jun 2008
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Hello-
re: Yeast... No - I don't have any noticeable issues with yeast. It's only a 1/4 tsp. Honey is also supposed to break up biofilms.
You can also take Yeast Cleanse from Solaray if you have yeast issues. It has freeze dried garlic & grapefruit seed extract which is a cyst buster, too.
It also has a bunch of other good stuff & it's only about $12 a bottle. I think it works better than fluconozole.
It's strong stuff - I just take 1/4 tsp. per day. You can increase it to 2-3 teaspoons a day as you get more used to it. I started with 1/2 tsp & it was too much. So, I reduced it to 1/8 tsp, then worked up to 1/4 tsp.
ALSO - do not take it with food or drinks. It's a medicine - food diminishes the medicinal properties of the bee venom.
If you take it - let everyone know how it works for you - if possible.
It takes about 2 week for delivery from New Zealand. I think this brand is best. It's run by Russian scientists who are PhDs. It seems that they know what they are doing.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
The antimicrobial agent melittin exhibits powerful in vitro inhibitory effects on the Lyme disease spirochete.
Lubke LL, Garon CF
Rocky Mountain Laboratories Microscopy Branch, National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, National Institutes of Health, Hamilton, Montana 59840, USA.
Borrelia burgdorferi has demonstrated a capacity to resist the in vitro effects of powerful eukaryotic and prokaryotic metabolic inhibitors.
However, treatment of laboratory cultures on Barbour-Stoenner-Kelly medium with melittin, a 26-amino acid peptide contained in honeybee venom, showed immediate and profound inhibitory effects when they were monitored by dark-field microscopy, field emission scanning electron microscopy, and optical density measurements.
Furthermore, at melittin concentrations as low as 100 microg/mL, virtually all spirochete motility ceased within seconds of inhibitor addition.
Ultrastructural examination of these spirochetes by scanning electron microscopy revealed obvious alterations in the surface envelope of the spirochetes.
The extraordinary sensitivity of B. burgdorferi to mellitin may provide both a research reagent useful in the study of selective permeability in microorganisms and important clues to the development of effective new drugs against lyme disease. PMID: 9233664, UI: 97376893
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So, if they found this to be the case in 1997 - what happened?
PS - This is a government run lab paid for by our tax dollars!
randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
i'm sorry but i can't remember....if you're allergic to bees you can't take this, right?
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
Thanks Sparkle.
Diflucan did nothing to take care of my yeast.
I did see Yeast Cleanse from Solaray yesterday at the store. It contained magnesium stearate which is an ingredient I avoid so I passed it buy for Virastop and Candidase by Enzymedica.
Hopefully the combo will work. I took Candidase before with no results but the sales person told me it works better in combination with Virastop and if they do not work she said I can both bottles.
When I am yeast free the bee venom honey does sound interesting and like something I might want to try.
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sparkle7
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posted
Re: allergic reactions to bee venom in Api Health's honey... (this is only in regards to this specific brand!!!)
For determination of allergic activity of PLA2 in ApiHealth honey was used Western Blotting analysis (Immuno-Blot Assay).
The methods allows to detect individual bee venom proteins within various complex mixture using specific antibody, as well as to estimate the total bee venom concentration by comparison with established bee venom standard.
Was found that main bee venom allergic component (Phospholipase A2), which provoke anaphylactic, lose its allergic activity after special mixing with honey.
In result, molecule of PLA2 lost ability to interact with bee venom antibodies and honey with added bee venom became safe.
-----
Best to start off with very small doses. If you're worried - you can get an Epipen in case of an allergic reaction.
-----
The Yeast Cleanse worked for me.
I think it's mainly the ingredients: freeze dried garlic, grapefruit seed extract, caprylic acid, pao d'acro (spelling?), tea tree oil, etc.
If you can get these ingredients in another brand - go for it.
It's good because the garlic & grapefruit seed extract also effect the Lyme bacteria... 2 birds with one stone, so to speak.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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groovy2
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6304
posted
Hi All
magnesium stearate is used so the capsules do not stick in the capsule machine -
From the research I have done the magnesium stearate is Dusted on the out side of the capsules- so not much there-
Posts: 2999 | From Austin tx USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
It is a flow agent that probably saves the supplement companies money but I would prefer not to take it and I wish they would stop using it.
If enough people complain to the companies about it maybe they will get a clue.
Over 90% of the vitamin/mineral products consumed today_contain magnesium stearate, also known as Stearic Acid.
``Stearic Acid inhibits T-cell dependent immune responses. Plasma membrane integrity is significantly impaired, leading to a loss of membrane potential and ultimately cell function and viability.''
Tebbey PW, Buttke TM, ``Molecular Basis For The Immunosuppressive Action_of Stearic Acid on T cells'', Immunogy, 1990 Jul; 379-86
`` When cells were exposed to stearic acids and palmitic acids, there was a dramatic loss of cell viability after 24 hours. Cell death was induced by stearic and palmitic acid.''
PMID: 12562519 (PubMed) Ulloth, JE, Casiano CA, De Leon M. Department of Microbiology and Immunology, East Carolina University School of Medicine.
``T-helper cells become the target of stearic acid.'' PMID: 6333387 (PubMed)
``Stearic Acid, Magnesium Stearate, Calcium Stearate, Palmitate, and Hydrogenated Vegetable Oils are lubricants which enable manufacturing equipment to run more efficiently but inhibit eventual dissolution of the nutrient.
Stearic acid may prevent absorption by individuals with compromised digestive systems. Magnesium stearate and stearic acid also present the problem that delivery of the active ingredient may be considerably further down the intestinal tract than the site originally intended.
This may result in the nutrient being delivered away from its optimal absorption site. Not only can this impede absorption, in some cases it might be harmful to the liver.''
Czap, AL. Townsend Letter For Doctors and Patients, July 1999, Vol.192;_Pg. 117-119.
``The addition of palmitate or stearate to cultured cells led to activation of a death program with a morphology resembling that of apoptosis. Palmitates and stearates caused cardiac and other types of cells to undergo programmed cell death.''
Sparagna, GC, Hickson-Bick, DL, Department of Pathology and Medicine, University of Texas Health Science Center, Houston. American Journal of Medical Science, Jul 1999; pg. 15-21.
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lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
I don't know....
I have tried many beepollen products and honey etc and I only get bad reaction...nothing like a herx actually...
just verrrrry weighed down and fatigued...as soon as I stopped these remedies I gradually got better....
Honey is a form of sugar or sweetner that we should stay away from for sure....other products may be safe and may even help...for me they did not....
zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Bee venom is not honey or pollen. It is a bee product, though.
They put it in honey so you can ingest it. There are other types of therapy using bee venom but it involves being stung or needles.
In theory - if bee venom kills spirochetes in vitro - it may have a similar effect in the body. There haven't been any studies in vivo but when I tried it I definitely had a herx reaction.
I couldn't stand the idea of being stung to get the benefits. I also can't afford to see a doctor or specialist in this area of medicine (apitherapy).
So, the bee venom honey seemed to be a logical solution.
I guess if you are very sensitive to sugar or a diabetic, etc. it may be a put off. It's only a teaspoon or less a day with a maximum of 2-3 teaspoons a day.
Manuka honey also has other health benefits.
I think it's also important to get any bee products from a reputable company. If they are heated or not processed properly - they lose the benefits.
There is also bee venom in a cream form & you can apply it to your skin. It can be absorbed that way.
I don't have any guarantee that this will "cure" Lyme but if herxing is any indication of killing spirochetes - it's working.
For $27 a jar, I felt it was worth it to give it a try.
----
PS - about the Magnesium Stearate... Does anyone know how much of this people have to ingest for it to have toxic effects on the body?
I didn't read the studies enough to see what quantities were involved here.
I can see it's an issue but is it really something we have to go crazy over?
There are small amounts of toxins everywhere.
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oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
I wonder how oral compares to a beesting which is into the blood. What happens in the stomach to bee venom? Is it broken down into other constituents? No info on that. So maybe the cream is better. Will absorb into the bloodstream too.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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hiker53
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 6046
posted
I believe Bejoy posted some time ago about bee venom ointment that was topical. You might search for that. Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 8900 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
One of the articles I read about bee venom was by Stephen Buhner.
I think he suggested to use bee venom tincture & use a drop or 2 under the tongue.
I couldn't find the bee venom tincture so I figured the honey would be the next best thing.
You can also get homeopathically prepared bee venom but I wanted to get something closer to the actual venom.
I'm not sure what happens through digestion. I think it's still working since I am herxing from it. I make sure the honey goes under my tongue when I take it.
I'm not sure how deep it goes into the body through using the cream.
It's a good question about this. Someone may want to contact the people at Api Health & ask them. They may know.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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bejoy
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posted
I used Venex Bee Venom Ointment.
You apply a small dab to your skin, and it feels a bit like mild sunburn for about 20 minutes. I herxed from it badly for about a month, and it took care of the rest of my neuro symptoms.
I am convinced that it kills spirochetes, and opens cysts. It was one of my big hitters, along with a Bicillin substitute, Metronidazole, and Deseret Biologicals homeopathics.
Search bee venom ointment and you will find my post on my experience with it, if you are interested. It costs about 30. a tube, and I never finished a whole one. I got better first.
Go Sparkle!
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
About the Bee Venom Honey. The person at Venex told me the venom gets destroyed in the gut. I dunno though because he tried to steer me away from the ointment too.
Why not let the honey dissolve in your mouth and under your tongue. I've tested that with regular honey and it does work.
Bought the Solaray Yeast-Cleanse. That is powerfull stuff....whew! I like that this has the garlic and licorice, the stuff I was on didn't.
Can't wait to get my Venex Ointment in the mail! Posts: 111 | From Mid Michigan | Registered: Feb 2008
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Thanks Bejoy... your posts helped me on the search.
I do let the honey dissolve under my tongue. I think it's supposed to go directly into the blood that way.
I don't know about the issue with digestion & bee venom. It seems to be making me herx so it must be getting into my system somehow.
In some respects, I think it's quite good to eat it or let it dissolve it in your mouth. I think it can get the chemical that kills spirochetes to your internal environment/organs better this way. It's just a guess, though.
I don't know if the melittin crosses the blood brain barrier.
from Wikipedia-
Melittin is the principal active component of bee venom, and is a powerful stimulator of phospholipase A2. Melittin is a peptide consisting of 26 amino acids.
Therapeutic Use
Melittin also exhibits potent anti-microbial activity. For example, Melittin has been shown to exert "profound inhibitory effects" on Borrelia burgdorferi, the bacteria that causes lyme disease (Lubke & Garon, 1997). Melittin has also been shown to kill the yeast Candida albicans [1]) and to suppress Mycoplasma hominis and Chlamydia trachomatis infections. [2][3][4]
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Pretty interesting!
-----
Also- I just found this. It's very technical but I think it means that melittin can be absorbed through digestion:
1: Biochem Pharmacol. 2008 Mar 1;75(5):1104-14. Epub 2007 Nov 4. Links
Melittin exhibits necrotic cytotoxicity in gastrointestinal cells which is attenuated by cholesterol.
Maher S, McClean S.
Institute of Technology Tallaght Dublin and National Institute of Cellular Biotechnology, Old Blessington Road, Tallaght, Dublin 24, Ireland.
"Overall, although melittin appears to stimulate necrosis, with careful dosage selection the peptide could be considered for the oral delivery of poorly bioavailable drugs."
-
I think they were wrong at the place selling the Venex...
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Melittin also effective against herpes, HIV, & other bad stuff...
posted
I've never tried bee venom, but I do eat organic raw honey. I don't eat much because of yeast, but the honey does seem to help with viral stuff like colds and sore throats.
Kathy
-------------------- You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have. Posts: 807 | From South Dakota | Registered: Jul 2005
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oxygenbabe
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5831
posted
The cream bejoy used had other stuff in it I would not tolerate. I may try the New Zealand cream Sparkle is using.
There are transdermal antibiotics antifungals and nicotine patches etc. Stuff can get into the blood thru the skin.
Sparkle if you're herxing from it maybe you are killing bugs in the gut?
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
O2babe- I'm using (ie: eating) the bee venom honey, not the topical cream. I don't know if using the cream will get the venom into the intestines & other organs that may have spirochetes.
It's funny - I'm having alot of herxing type pain in my back & shoulders. Don't ask me how it gets from eating it to my back?
aiden - I don't think you will get the same effect using regular honey. It has to have the bee venom (melittin). Honey is good but it's not the whole picture.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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bejoy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11129
posted
If you want to try the Venex, just tell the apitherapy guy that you want it for rheumatoid symptoms and he won't bother you about it. That is what it is prepared and marketed for.
He sells bee venom for injection to be used for lyme treatment. Also considered very effective by any lymies I have heard of that have used it. He prepares it for Dr. K. in WA.
If I had not already been successful with this product, I'd try the stuff Sparkle is using. Sounds great.
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
OK, I got the NZ Honey yesterday with Bee Venom and Propolis. Not awful-tasting, but not yummy either.
This morning I took about 1/5 a teaspoon and let it dissolve in my tongue and mouth. There wasn't much of an effect at the start of the day, except for a slight headache. But later in the day, after I ate dinner I started to feel extra dizzy/odd and just not normal. Sure I am herxing from the Venom and/or Propolis killing something.
Tonight, or very early this morning I'm going to try my first activated charcoal capsule for an uber detoxing test. My Dr. prescribed Cholestyramine to me yesterday, and I don't want any part of that right now.
Will
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