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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » artemesia -anyone have trouble tolerating it

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Author Topic: artemesia -anyone have trouble tolerating it
Katrina
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I have a question. Has anyone had touble tolerating artemesia. I'm currently taking Dr Z formula 400mgs twice a day and working up to three a day. It seems I'm having a bit of trouble. My chest palpitations are worse and I'm definately having skipped beats. My fatigue level has increased as well. Short of breath when I climb the steps. It also seems to have aggravated the lyme like symptoms (achy joints). Does Artemesia have any effect on lyme as well? Was hoping someone could shed some light. Currently on Mepron 4tsp daily, Zithromax 500mgs daily, Malerone 1 tab daily, and just added artemesia 2 caps daily.

Many thanks!

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charlie
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See post I bumped up by James H about penicillin artemisinin reaction
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Keebler
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Are you being treated by a LLMD?


With the total protocol you are on, I assume so, but just want to be sure.

What is your liver support? I did not see that listed there.


Oh, and if you can write shorter paragraphs with more white space in between, more people will be able to read your posts and then reply.

thanks.


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Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Katrina
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Thanks,

I am taking liver support. Currently on NAC, Vit C, Vit E, Omega 3's, ALA. Following guidelines from a Dr. in Florida.

However, having trouble adding in Artemesia. Feeling alot worse after taking it. I trying to get to a much higher dose of Artemesia. I don't know if I can handle it.

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Hoosiers51
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Hi Katrina.

First of you, Alpha Lipoic Acid and Vitamin E should NOT be taken with Mepron!!!! Here is a quote from Dr. Kenneth Singleton's book the Lyme Disease Solution: "These should not be used while taking atovaquone (Mepron) because they are all fat-soluble antioxidants that tend to neutralize the pro-oxidant effects of atovaquone against babesia." (He is talking about CoQ10, ALA, and Vit E)

I literally had my book open to that exact page when I read your post!

Secondly, I have a lot of trouble tolerating aretmisiae. First I tried Nutricology's, and now I'm doing Zhang's, and getting the exact same reaction.

When I take one pill of Zhang's or Nutricology, I get high pitched buzzing in my ears, and also a sensation like a bird is flapping its wing in my ear. The latter is scary enough to make me question if this is safe. I have been asking people repeatedly on Lymenet, with mixed responses. I just had a "bad feeling" about it though.

So, what I am doing currently is opening one pill, dividing it out and putting half in an empty "pill shell," so i take 1/2 a capsule once a day, or one in the morning, one at night if I'm feeling brave.

That is all I can tolerate!

But wait, there's more.....

Yesterday was one of the days I took (gasp!) 2 of my 1/2 capsules in one day......and this morning I woke up and I was sleeping on my stomach, and I could feel my heart pounding on the mattress....it literally felt like it was going 150-200 beats per min (not sure if that's possible though). I was scared. I also felt like I was weak and trembling and dizzy.

I know this is from the Artemisinin, because I have had this reaction a few times the morning after taking it, esp. if I increase it or start it up again.

Now, listen to this.............I also just read James H's post about certain drugs interacting with Art. I take a LOT of Amoxicillin! Bingo. Maybe this is why I can tolerate so little.

BUT, I have also taken breaks from my Amoxy, and I think I have also had problems from the Art when I wasn't taking the Amox.

Who knows. But the whole point is that you're not alone. I am content to just take my super-small dose.......everyone is different.

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Hoosiers51
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I just noticed.....you are on Malarone WITH Mepron? That is an interesting combo....never heard of that. And you're on 4 tsp of Mepron?

That is a LOT of babesia medication. Malarone treats babesia too, I assume you know that.

I believe most people take 3 of Zhang's artemesiae pills per day.......you probably will not need more than that.

Also keep in mind you need to take 23 g of fat with each Mepron dose to be sure it's utilized by your body properly.

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Keebler
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My concern is that a reduced dose may not be enough and could lead to failed treatment.


If you have trouble tolerating anything, be sure to talk to your doctor for other suggestions.

Artemisinin requires the liver detox pathway Cytochrome P-450.
Therefore, support of that pathway, and, if possible, minimizing other drugs or supplements that might overwhelm that pathway might be helpful.

Be sure you have no aspartame/Equal/Nutrasweet or MSG (in any of its names). Caffeine, too, can contribute to the speediness and upset.


Magnesium and B-6 can help.

o can keeping blood sugar stable by frequent small meals with enough protein to produce glutathione and slow carbs to keep it steady and help the C P-450 pathway. If you don't eat enough carbs, excess porphyrins can trigger tinnitus, etc, as well.


Again, the most important part is to support the C P-450 liver pathway. If that is overwhelmed, tinnitus and stomach upset will surely follow. Still, you may have to change your plan, but be sure whatever it is that it is to the therapeutic dose.

Schizandra (schisandra) is an excellent support and helps the C P-450 process. Milk thistle is another, but with mepron, that has to wait - or be used carefully. You would need expert advice, too, with schizandra or other liver protection.


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TerryK
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Everytime I tried to take art, my liver enzymes would become quite elevated.

It also made me feel bad in general.

After trying both brands with the same result, my LLMD has not asked me to go back on but because of the elevated liver enzymes, I now must have my liver enzymes tested every 3 weeks.

They do become elevated once in awhile but only slightly, nothing like they did when I was on art.

Terry

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Katrina
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Thanks for all the posts. I have consulted with Dr. S in Florida. And even though Vit C and NAC and Vit e can minimize the effects of Mepron. He feels it is necessary to decrease the free radical damage to other areas of the body. He also likes the proquinil in Malerone and feels that it is effective against babesia. Right now you cannot get proquinil(sorry for the spelling) in a form by itself.

Has anyone completed this treatment and then gotten rid of babesia. It seems everyone is on stuff forever. I'm hoping to get rid of this thing.

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Keebler
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http://tinyurl.com/6ad66t


Artemisinin, Artesunate, Artemisinic Acid and Other Derivatives of Artemisia Used for Malaria, Babesia and Cancer (Paperback)

- by James Schaller, MD

about $25.

While more expensive, I'd advise getting at Schaller's latest book about Babesia. (Although it sounds like you might actually be getting treatment with him. ?)

(as his books are expensive, I've not gotten them, but probably should before I waste more money and time.)


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[ 10. August 2008, 05:43 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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