richedie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14689
posted
Any veg heads on the board or vegans? If so, how do you cope with a Lyme diet? They all seem high in protein and meat. I am all about the carbs.
I have been inconst and hell over diet since October. Since I have MGUS, there are guidelines I should follow, including no gluten which is hell, now with Lyme and hardly any carbs, I feel I am eating hardly anything. I look like a skeleton.
I do know most of the diets are geared for when taking abx though.
I am eating more organic chicken and turkey these days though and some organinc eggs.
-------------------- Mepron/Zith/Ceftin Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse. Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin. Period of Levaquin and Ceftin. Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin. Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin. Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia Plaquenil/Biaxin Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
Hi Richie--I'm probably the last person you should ask about diet. I'm lacto-ovo vegetarian but I have to admit I don't really do squat in regards to following the lyme diet recommendations.
I eat sugar. I live on carbs. I take Theralac twice a day and seem to have no yeast issues. I've been on diflucan for a few days now and have not noticed any sort of yeast herx so I think I'm okay in regards to that.
Should I change some things? Probably. But I'm one of those people who won't change things unless I really have to. I love pasta and rice and bread and my downfall are potato chips.
I'm also at the beginning of my wellness journey so I'm the last person to take any recommendations from. I do think however that we are all different and that not all of us are going to have to have the same dietary restrictions as others. Who knows, perhaps a year from now I'll be singing a different tune. Posts: 237 | From Rhode Island | Registered: Jan 2008
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May i suggest researching something called the alkaline diet. It is similar to vegan. The basic concept is eating lots of greens as well as high fat and protien vegatarian foods like avacodos. I have a few books on recipes ideas and its not that hard to follow and some of the recipes are really good.
disturbedme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12346
posted
Hi Richedie,
I'm vegan.... or still pretty much am (for about three years now).
I do fine with my diet (I don't follow a "lyme diet". I don't think I eat as healthy as I should, but I make sure to eat enough protein (usually soy -- and yes, I've heard from some that it's not good, but my doctors tell me it's fine). I've also been eating egg beaters (only egg whites) recently, so I'm not really completely vegan right now...
I also probably eat a lot of carbs, but I really haven't had a huge issue with yeast, thankfully.
With weight, I haven't had a problem with it. When I first went vegan, I lost a good bit of weight, but since then I've put some back on and have maintained my weight.
It's not necessarily the diet making you thin as a skeleton. Remember that lyme can make people lose weight or gain weight.
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
Richie
Have you been tested for food sensitivities? Not the skin prick test the allergists do. It is no good. You need a bloodtest. The test my doctor ran was from ALCAT Laboratories.
This will help you know which foods to avoid. I tested allergic to lettuce and red bell peppers (I'm fine with green peppers, figure that).
I also have milk and soy protein allergies. Avoiding these foods really reduced my swelling and pain.
I mostly eat vegetarian but do eat fish and chicken sometimes.
So many tests reveal this is the best diet for me.
Different body types need different foods, however, universally, no one needs highly processed foods and white sugar.
I avoid sugar but not fruit. Fruit is necessary to my diet and contains many good things.
Nierre, your diet is a train wreck waiting to happen. Good luck getting well on that.
It astounds me that people can understand their car runs better on premium gas but don't understand their bodies cannot function well on junk food. How is your immune system going to fight disease when you feed it junk?
I sure hope you eat some good food too. (Hint: Healthy Choice frozen foods are not healthy. Just check the ingredients)
Luvs
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by luvs2ride: Nierre, your diet is a train wreck waiting to happen. Good luck getting well on that.
It astounds me that people can understand their car runs better on premium gas but don't understand their bodies cannot function well on junk food. How is your immune system going to fight disease when you feed it junk?
I sure hope you eat some good food too. (Hint: Healthy Choice frozen foods are not healthy. Just check the ingredients)
Luvs
Actually I do eat a fairly healthy diet--I do eat a lot of whole grains and fresh veggies and salads--overall we are very big on Italian/Mediterranean food.
I went to see a naturopath once when I started getting symptoms (I thought I had MS) and he wanted me to cut out ALL sugar--even carrots! I thought--"oh please--carrots???."
I've never been a "sweets" person--I can walk right by chocolate or cookies or pastries and not bat an eye. But I don't want to take whole categories of food and say "nope--I'll never eat that." Of course that might sound odd coming from a vegetarian, and I've been vegetarian for 18 years, but if I woke up tomorrow and really wanted a cheeseburger I'd go get one. I've just never wanted one.
I want to be able to go out with my kids for the occasional ice cream cone. I want to have the occasional cup of tea and honey. And I do love my pasta!
I know you are sharing your thoughts with me because you want to be helpful and I do appreciate that. And I'm not saying you are wrong--it's very likely that at some point in time I'm going to look back and say that you were right. Btw, I've never had a Healthy Choice meal.
There are a lot of people who have gotten well taking antibiotics and have done next to nothing about their diet. There are those who have done everything they could possibly do to get well and are still sick. I think the trick is trying to find what is going to get each of us individually well.
I'm hoping to be able to do that without giving up my cappellini. Posts: 237 | From Rhode Island | Registered: Jan 2008
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
Nierre,
Nope. I wasn't being helpful. I was being testy because I get a little ticked off when people champion a junk food diet.
However, you responded very kindly and obviously you are eating well. So I humbly apologize to you.
And I agree life should not be all denial. I have Friday night cheat night in which I eat something I like that I shouldn't. It gives me something to look forward to and helps me stay on track the rest of the week.
Change of diet has made the biggest, most obvious improvement in my health. And I did eat healthy choice dinners before I learned better.
Vegetables are the best food source for me. I have always liked my veggies and now a gene test reveals why they are so good for me. I am very defective in my ability to produce gluatathione. Glut is needed to detox and research has found that healthy people have high levels of glut while sick people do not.
Guess what food source helps the body make glut?
Luvs
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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No apology necessary. You are right about people needing to eat as healthily as possible. I'm just trying to intellectually justify dragging my feet about it.
And please tell me the answer to your question is---
CARROTS!!!
Posts: 237 | From Rhode Island | Registered: Jan 2008
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
Well, not exactly. Cruciferous veggies make glut. But carrots are also excellent and I try to drink a glass of carrot juice daily. To heck with the sugar content!!!
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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Peacesoul
Unregistered
posted
Rich, I'm not clear on your post. Do you want to become a vegetarian? If you're eating chicken/fish, you're not a vegetarian?!
I used to be a strict vegan, and then when I started getting sick 14 yrs ago, I had to add chicken and fish back into my diet. I did a whole diet adjustment. I cut many things out of my diet and added others. That alone got me well enough to function again and work out with weights 6 days a week. Carrots are high in sugar, but don't have to be avoided unless the body is diseased with yeast.
I was huge on soy, then figured out that's what was causing my hair loss and pms symptoms. I know only use almond milk.
There are many food options for vegans but you have to get creative. But when you have food intolerances, then you may have to opt out of being a vegan or vegetarian to chose a healthy life over beliefs.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
Are you saying that you must eat high carbs for Monoclonal gammopathy of undetermined significance (MGUS) ?
Is that what MGUS stand for with you?
======================================
Regarding carbs: Some do well with moderate amounts of dark rices, quinoa, millet, buckwheat (not a wheat, really, but a legume), wild rice. One of the best rices is a Chinese Black Forbidden Rice. Ymmmm. A quarter cup of any of these grains will help fuel you and add dimension to the veggies.
Carbs are good and essential to our brain. Glucose - from carbs - is required to live. It's just how it's supplied that matters.
Also, for people with problems detoxing through the Cytochrome P-450 pathway and, thereby, may have excess porphyrin buildup, a higher carb diet may prevent neurotoxicity from too high a level of porphyrins.
A genetic condition called porphryia (there are over 11 types) or a chronic or secondary porphyria related to some chronic infections . . . well, carbs help anyone in any of those groups. Carrot juice is of particular help in such cases. Also those patients must go lighter on proteins, especially from red meat, as they don't have the enzymes to metabolize.
So, individual needs call for various diets.
Going for less sugar, you could snack all day long on zuchinni or cucumbers and a yogurt/dill dip. Add a drop of lemon juice or stevia.
Darker fruits, berries . . . and apples are the lowest sugars. Essential for good health are all the colors. It all helps detox by rich colors and bulk.
about protein, however you get it, protein requirements are upwards of 65 grams a day - more for ill persons. An egg has just 6-7 grams.
I was vegetarian for 18 years . . . and I felt exhausted the whole time. I had no idea how much protein my body needed. It is possible to do it, but it takes care. And if taurine is missing major eye problems can develop. Taurine, an amino acid, is found mainly in meat and fish.
Protein helps our bodies make glutathione and that helps the liver detox . . . protein's amino acids help our brain, our hearts, our muscles, etc., etc., etc.,
If meat is hard to digest, try cooking it up in soups and stews, adding lots of veggies just before serving. That way the meat is more tender and it's not the dominant feature.
Sure, protein is in veggies but not at the high amounts. You can add protein powders, but I would not rely upon them as they are not WHOLE food with all the nutrients.
FISH is easier to digest - but be sure to get WILD fish and find a list of those that are safer regarding mercury. Tuna is out. Wild Salmon is in. You'd have to find a reliable source for a list of the safest fish.
Sardines are excellent for us. I'm not fond of them, but add parsley, garlic and a drop of lemon oil and just down them. Great for travel.
And, ORGANIC foods are best as conventionally farmed foods often contain farm chemicals that are doubly hard on our livers, brain, heart, etc.. If you can't afford all organic, find out which foods have the least amount of chemicals used.
Beef, chicken, etc. that are hormone-free, antibiotic-free and free range are the best. Grass feed beef is far superior to grain-fed if you can get it. It's more expensive, but I'd take half the amount of grass-fed beef to double the meat from the stockyards.
Buffalo, too, and lamb may be good choices as they are generally raised in natural conditions. You can always ask your food comes from. Kosher may also be a good way to go for quality meats, handled properly.
From Harvard School of Public Health Protein: Moving Closer to Center Stage
Excerpts:
We know that adults need a minimum of 0.8 grams of protein for every kilogram of body weight per day to keep from slowly breaking down their own tissues.
That's just over 7 grams of protein for every 20 pounds of body weight. . . .
for women . . . average amount of protein (around 68 grams a day). ---------------------------- 6 ounces lean hamburger - 48 grams 6 ounces roasted chicken - 42 grams 6 ounces fish - 41 grams
1 cup cottage cheese - 28 grams 1/2 cup tofu - 10 grams 1 cup skim milk - 8 grams
1 cup lentil soup - 8 grams 1 large egg -6 grams 1 cup cooked rice - 4 grams
Many people think of nuts as just another junk food snack. In reality, nuts are excellent sources of protein and other healthful nutrients
---------------------------------
NUTS are GREAT ! Brazil nuts have selenium, too. Great for breakfast.
I did not see nuts on their chart. Nuts are great brain food and good for endurance, too. A handful is about the right size serving.
About protein powders: most I've used have around 15 grams of protein per serving. For one meal's worth this may be fine, but the protein powders lack the whole food nutrients so should not be all of one's protein account.
-
[ 20. May 2008, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
- - THE REQUIREMENTS OF PROTEIN & AMINO ACID DURING ACUTE & CHRONIC INFECTIONS . . .
Anura V. Kurpad - Institute of Population Health & Clinical Research, Bangalore, India
129. Indian J Med Res 124, August 2006, pp 129-148. Review Article.
Excerpt: " . . . In general, the amount of EXTRA protein that would appear to be needed is of the order of 20-25 per cent of the recommended intake, for most infections. . . ."
- Full article at link (or google the title if it does not go through).
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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richedie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14689
posted
I always notice I have much more energy being a vegetarian because animal protein is harder on our digestive system and clogs the intestines regardless of the amount of fiber eaten. It is very noticable to me and bowel movements are much better and more consistent. I just feel way better on this diet than with meat...although I will on occasion have some organic chicken...but rare. You can get more than enough on plant foods, legumes, grains,etc.
-------------------- Mepron/Zith/Ceftin Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse. Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin. Period of Levaquin and Ceftin. Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin. Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin. Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia Plaquenil/Biaxin Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
going gluten free is easy once you get going with it- eat lots of asian food and bring your own wheat-free tamari instead of the soy sauce they use.
i can also recommend eating lots of kim chee- the lacto-fermented foods won't put you at risk for candida and in fact can kill off bugs and the like. i make my own at home, and it' s great for breakfast with eggs. there is no vinegar used so it remains alkali
eat a ton of hummus- if you make your own, add extra garlic for the antibacterial properties. extra lemon too if youwant.
i was vegan for years, but now eat meat since i lost so much weight. i am working on trying to get strong again but it is hard wtih these bugs. at the moment i can barely do a pushup where as before i got bitten i was in pretty good shape. the pain in the shoulders and weakness is too much and i fear i will strain muscles and tendons.. that is why i stick to eating animal proteins at the moment. but all the veggies i eat and things like probiotics, kimchee keep things moving just fine. oh yeah, if you add peanut butter or almond butter you get the extra proteins. and coconut oil, with its good fats, can not only help with killing bugs but also can keep things regular if the pipes are clogged.
-------------------- do your best to educate the rest because 9 out of 10 doctors don't know jack about tick borne illnesses Posts: 437 | From shawangunk mountains, ny | Registered: May 2008
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disturbedme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12346
posted
I was vegan for three years. I'm now ovo vegetarian.
But you said you are now eating turkey and chicken.... you're not vegetarian if you are eating chicken and turkey, even if it is organic.
I haven't had a problem with my diet. For a good while I was vegan while sick and I never had a problem with yeast except for only once. I guess it depends on the person and what their bodies can tolerate and handle under abx stress, etc.
PS - LOL.... just now realized I already posted to this entry before. Didn't notice my post above until after I posted again.
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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luvs2ride
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8090
posted
Richie
I do think different people need different diets.
A diet high in fruits and veggies (especially cruciferous veggies) does cause the body to produce more glutathione which is a major detoxifier.
Since I am very toxic and have low levels of glut, I feel best when I eat mostly vegan. I test allergic to milk and soy proteins. When I eat them, my joint pain flares up.
Also, according to the "Eat right for your Bloodtype" doctor, Bloodtype A should be vegetarian. I am bloodtype A so, at least as far as I am concerned, that works.
It is really important for you to find out what your body can tolerate and where you are deficient. If you go vegan, be sure to add B12 to your diet as you won't get enough and you need B12 to help fight the disease.
Luvs
-------------------- When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace. Posts: 3038 | From america | Registered: Oct 2005
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